Comments on: Tanker Bid on Track, Says Boeing http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/08/11/tanker-bid-on-track-says-boeing/ Online Defense and Acquisition Journal Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:32:50 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: pfcem http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/08/11/tanker-bid-on-track-says-boeing/comment-page-1/#comment-1105 pfcem Mon, 25 Aug 2008 04:49:51 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=549#comment-1105 mojojojo, BS, it is a fundamental change from asking for a tanker with KC-135R level fuel offload vs radius with NO extra credit for exceeding requirements to "bigger is better" reguardless of the cost or detriment to REAL WORLD capability. mojojojo,

BS, it is a fundamental change from asking for a tanker with KC-135R level fuel offload vs radius with NO extra credit for exceeding requirements to “bigger is better” reguardless of the cost or detriment to REAL WORLD capability.

]]> By: Oldest391 http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/08/11/tanker-bid-on-track-says-boeing/comment-page-1/#comment-1086 Oldest391 Sun, 24 Aug 2008 01:37:07 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=549#comment-1086 Yep and the SOD has said the proposal will be issued soon. Now he could be a nice guy and say OK whiners you can have 4 months, but then you have to ask the question, Why didn't you just offered up the 767-300 or -400 as your tanker. Guess what even if they had used a -300 or -400 the MTOW runway length is still longer than the KC-45, so no matter what aircraft Boeing put up or delaying tactic they would have to use the 777 but guess what at MTOW it still takes more runway to take off than the KC-45. Yep and the SOD has said the proposal will be issued soon. Now he could be a nice guy and say OK whiners you can have 4 months, but then you have to ask the question, Why didn’t you just offered up the 767–300 or –400 as your tanker. Guess what even if they had used a –300 or –400 the MTOW runway length is still longer than the KC-45, so no matter what aircraft Boeing put up or delaying tactic they would have to use the 777 but guess what at MTOW it still takes more runway to take off than the KC-45.

]]> By: mojojojo http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/08/11/tanker-bid-on-track-says-boeing/comment-page-1/#comment-1063 mojojojo Sat, 23 Aug 2008 01:18:09 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=549#comment-1063 No significant changes...we've already proven the language WRT fuel offload was just about the same between the original solicitation and the amendment. AF got a taste of a more capable aircraft, announced their desires for the more capable Aircraft by awarding to the winning bidder, now Boeing's trying to one-up by requesting more time to write a completely new proposal? Absurd! Monkey Business. No significant changes…we’ve already proven the language WRT fuel offload was just about the same between the original solicitation and the amendment.

AF got a taste of a more capable aircraft, announced their desires for the more capable Aircraft by awarding to the winning bidder, now Boeing’s trying to one-up by requesting more time to write a completely new proposal? Absurd! Monkey Business.

]]> By: pfcem http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/08/11/tanker-bid-on-track-says-boeing/comment-page-1/#comment-1061 pfcem Fri, 22 Aug 2008 23:00:23 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=549#comment-1061 Oldest391, Sorry but this is a NEW proposal with significant changes which Boeing askes for a significantly different aircraft. The KC-767AT was PERFECTLY tailored to the 2007 RFP. How many days has it been since the new RFP was released & how many days has it been since Boeing was briefed on it? Hell the new RFP hasn't even been finalized. We may not even be as far along now with the new proposal as we were in December of 2006 with the previous proposal. And of course these latest changes were made by the DOD, not the USAF... Oldest391,

Sorry but this is a NEW proposal with significant changes which Boeing askes for a significantly different aircraft. The KC-767AT was PERFECTLY tailored to the 2007 RFP.

How many days has it been since the new RFP was released & how many days has it been since Boeing was briefed on it? Hell the new RFP hasn’t even been finalized. We may not even be as far along now with the new proposal as we were in December of 2006 with the previous proposal.

And of course these latest changes were made by the DOD, not the USAF…

]]> By: Oldest391 http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/08/11/tanker-bid-on-track-says-boeing/comment-page-1/#comment-1053 Oldest391 Fri, 22 Aug 2008 21:08:37 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=549#comment-1053 Today news, Boeing wants 6 months to come up with a new aircraft or they will go home. Well Boeing, you knew what was in the proposal, but you stupidly did not to submit the right aircraft. Now that you finally woke up and realized what the Air Force wants your now asking for 6 months to get it right this time. You had 100 days to work on a different aircraft. Instead you wasted that time in a verbal war of misinformation. So one word Comply or go home. If Northrop Grumman beats you again are you going to cry again to the GAO and your congress people. Your making yourselves look like a big cry baby. Today news, Boeing wants 6 months to come up with a new aircraft or they will go home. Well Boeing, you knew what was in the proposal, but you stupidly did not to submit the right aircraft. Now that you finally woke up and realized what the Air Force wants your now asking for 6 months to get it right this time. You had 100 days to work on a different aircraft. Instead you wasted that time in a verbal war of misinformation. So one word Comply or go home. If Northrop Grumman beats you again are you going to cry again to the GAO and your congress people. Your making yourselves look like a big cry baby.

]]> By: BS_Buster http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/08/11/tanker-bid-on-track-says-boeing/comment-page-1/#comment-1041 BS_Buster Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:43:53 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=549#comment-1041 I have had the same questions, and it is one more reason that the Boeing/Aeronovali/JADC Consortium should not be handed the contract. Their Chinese supplier is not sometimes, but has always, been unfriendly so we need to stick with our allies when we need to buy parts! After seeing the doctored opening ceremony videos and the 10 year olds competing for China with fake documents in the Olympics, I can understand Boeings partnerships with China. China likes to Boinginate also! Today’s Non-Ethics Word: Boinginate Pronunciation: \Bo-ing-i-nate\ Function: Verb Etymology: North Western US & Boeing/Aeronovali/JADC Consortium Date: 2008 Transitive verb : to habitually lie, cheat, bribe or steal if you really, really want to win I have had the same questions, and it is one more reason that the Boeing/Aeronovali/JADC Consortium should not be handed the contract. Their Chinese supplier is not sometimes, but has always, been unfriendly so we need to stick with our allies when we need to buy parts!

After seeing the doctored opening ceremony videos and the 10 year olds competing for China with fake documents in the Olympics, I can understand Boeings partnerships with China.
China likes to Boinginate also!

Today’s Non-Ethics Word: Boinginate
Pronunciation: \Bo-ing-i-nate\
Function: Verb
Etymology: North Western US & Boeing/Aeronovali/JADC Consortium
Date: 2008
Transitive verb
: to habitually lie, cheat, bribe or steal if you really, really want to win

]]> By: Behind_reality http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/08/11/tanker-bid-on-track-says-boeing/comment-page-1/#comment-964 Behind_reality Mon, 18 Aug 2008 17:10:42 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=549#comment-964 The real question is, does the US Military really want a sometimes unfriendly country (FR)building a major military aircraft for us? Also consider they would be able to sell this valuable asset to any other country in the world,complete with our latest techology,that could come back and bite us in the butt. They have done so in the past. B/W/Do I Know.. The real question is, does the US Military really want a sometimes unfriendly country (FR)building a major military aircraft for us? Also consider they would be able to sell this valuable asset to any other country in the world,complete with our latest techology,that could come back and bite us in the butt. They have done so in the past.
B/W/Do I Know..

]]> By: BS_Buster http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/08/11/tanker-bid-on-track-says-boeing/comment-page-1/#comment-855 BS_Buster Wed, 13 Aug 2008 11:43:56 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=549#comment-855 Sorry for the delay in posting, very hard to see the screen with tears in your eyes! Also having trouble typing while rolling on the floor laughing, over the Boeing/Aeronovali/JADC Consortium statement, "...placing its corporate credibility on the line...". News flash Mr. Beck: 1) The Boeing/Aeronovali/JADC Consortium lost the KC-45 competition. 2) The Boeing/Aeronovali/JADC Consortium lost all credibility crying about loss #1. Beck continues with, "...raise questions about its ability to judge risk and the needs of its single biggest customer." Another Flash for ya Beck, Telling your "single biggest customer" he is incompetent is a really, really risky future sales move! Today's Non-Ethics Word: Boinginate Pronunciation: \Bo-ing-i-nate\ Function: Verb Etymology: North Western US & Boeing/Aeronovali/JADC Consortium Date: 2008 Transitive verb : to habitually lie, cheat, bribe or steal if you really, really want to win Sorry for the delay in posting, very hard to see the screen with tears in your eyes! Also having trouble typing while rolling on the floor laughing, over the Boeing/Aeronovali/JADC Consortium statement, “…placing its corporate credibility on the line…”. News flash Mr. Beck:
1) The Boeing/Aeronovali/JADC Consortium lost the KC-45 competition.
2) The Boeing/Aeronovali/JADC Consortium lost all credibility crying about loss #1.

Beck continues with, “…raise questions about its ability to judge risk and the needs of its single biggest customer.”

Another Flash for ya Beck, Telling your “single biggest customer” he is incompetent is a really, really risky future sales move!

Today’s Non-Ethics Word: Boinginate
Pronunciation: \Bo-ing-i-nate\
Function: Verb
Etymology: North Western US & Boeing/Aeronovali/JADC Consortium
Date: 2008
Transitive verb
: to habitually lie, cheat, bribe or steal if you really, really want to win

]]> By: Old391 http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/08/11/tanker-bid-on-track-says-boeing/comment-page-1/#comment-845 Old391 Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:00:59 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=549#comment-845 This is funny. The Air Force was going to re-open the bid on the 8 points the GAO said may not have resulted in a fair winner. Boein was happey that they won the protest but now that the re-bid will focus on those 8 points, Boeing is crying Foul. Just can not make Boeing happy. If Boeing pulls out they are hoping that congress will tell them not to or give them the contract. The other plant in Mobile was to build Freighters for now. This is funny. The Air Force was going to re-open the bid on the 8 points the GAO said may not have resulted in a fair winner. Boein was happey that they won the protest but now that the re-bid will focus on those 8 points, Boeing is crying Foul. Just can not make Boeing happy. If Boeing pulls out they are hoping that congress will tell them not to or give them the contract.

The other plant in Mobile was to build Freighters for now.

]]> By: Cole http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/08/11/tanker-bid-on-track-says-boeing/comment-page-1/#comment-844 Cole Tue, 12 Aug 2008 13:05:17 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=549#comment-844 Can't find the article, but believe it was EADS CEO Louis Gallois or the Airbus CEO who indicated the desire to build in Mobile regardless of the competition's outcome. EADS wants into the U.S. military market because of the huge sales potential. They also want to sell us A400Ms...which would be competition for Lockheed as well. Two birds for the price of one U.S. plant. ;) Can’t find the article, but believe it was EADS CEO Louis Gallois or the Airbus CEO who indicated the desire to build in Mobile regardless of the competition’s outcome. EADS wants into the U.S. military market because of the huge sales potential. They also want to sell us A400Ms…which would be competition for Lockheed as well. Two birds for the price of one U.S. plant. ;)

]]> By: Lightndattic http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/08/11/tanker-bid-on-track-says-boeing/comment-page-1/#comment-843 Lightndattic Tue, 12 Aug 2008 12:17:09 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=549#comment-843 Or "We'll trumpet how the competition is 'fair and open' until the day after we lose". BTW... Boeing must not have told Pfcem what to say yet since he hasn't commented yet. Or “We’ll trumpet how the competition is ‘fair and open’ until the day after we lose”.

BTW… Boeing must not have told Pfcem what to say yet since he hasn’t commented yet.

]]> By: Truth Be Told http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/08/11/tanker-bid-on-track-says-boeing/comment-page-1/#comment-836 Truth Be Told Tue, 12 Aug 2008 01:05:45 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=549#comment-836 Translation: if the RFP isn't written in such a way that it's a slam dunk for Boeing, we're going to take our ball and go home. Translation: if the RFP isn’t written in such a way that it’s a slam dunk for Boeing, we’re going to take our ball and go home.

]]> By: mojojojo http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/08/11/tanker-bid-on-track-says-boeing/comment-page-1/#comment-832 mojojojo Mon, 11 Aug 2008 23:37:46 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=549#comment-832 Nothing like a healthy dose of competition to straighten up some attitudes. What a powerful thing. However, I just can't get past the thought of Boeing letting the competition into their back yard (it's different). I think in this case company and profits come first then the unions. But what do I know... i'm an arm chair analyst at best on this subject. Nothing like a healthy dose of competition to straighten up some attitudes. What a powerful thing. However, I just can’t get past the thought of Boeing letting the competition into their back yard (it’s different). I think in this case company and profits come first then the unions. But what do I know… i’m an arm chair analyst at best on this subject.

]]> By: Cole http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/08/11/tanker-bid-on-track-says-boeing/comment-page-1/#comment-831 Cole Mon, 11 Aug 2008 22:18:06 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=549#comment-831 Pure speculation: If Boeing knows it faces greater future competition from Airbus and that a U.S. presence in Mobile is inevitable, then don't bid and use this contract award to NG/EADS as a bargaining chip against the unions. Point to numerous foreign manufacturers successfully producing cars in the U.S. to illustrate that the same fate could await Boeing if they continue to demand more money than the industry can support. A former co-worker managed at a Boeing plant and complained that it was a miserable experience. A friend of the family went from a non-union garment manufacturing job to a unionized aircraft maintenance position and was essentially threatened by a co-worker for working too hard. It is stories/attitudes like this that have doomed so many current heavily-unionized American industries. Aerospace could be next unless unions are brought under control. Competition may be one means to do it. Pure speculation:

If Boeing knows it faces greater future competition from Airbus and that a U.S. presence in Mobile is inevitable, then don’t bid and use this contract award to NG/EADS as a bargaining chip against the unions. Point to numerous foreign manufacturers successfully producing cars in the U.S. to illustrate that the same fate could await Boeing if they continue to demand more money than the industry can support.

A former co-worker managed at a Boeing plant and complained that it was a miserable experience. A friend of the family went from a non-union garment manufacturing job to a unionized aircraft maintenance position and was essentially threatened by a co-worker for working too hard. It is stories/attitudes like this that have doomed so many current heavily-unionized American industries. Aerospace could be next unless unions are brought under control. Competition may be one means to do it.

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