<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0" xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/" xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/" > <channel><title>Comments on: Bigger Budgets = Fewer Planes</title> <atom:link href="http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/08/14/bigger-budgets-fewer-planes/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/08/14/bigger-budgets-fewer-planes/</link> <description>Online Defense and Acquisition Journal</description> <lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 11:49:43 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator> <item><title>By: Oldest391</title><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/08/14/bigger-budgets-fewer-planes/#comment-974</link> <dc:creator>Oldest391</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 01:44:18 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=591#comment-974</guid> <description>Another factor in the rising cost is the way the government wants more capability added on after the initial contrat was let. This causes the price to rise. Alos low production rates that stretches out the delivery schedule also adds additional cost.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another factor in the rising cost is the way the government wants more capability added on after the initial contrat was let. This causes the price to rise. Alos low production rates that stretches out the delivery schedule also adds additional cost.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: LC</title><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/08/14/bigger-budgets-fewer-planes/#comment-936</link> <dc:creator>LC</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 15:25:03 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=591#comment-936</guid> <description>Regarding Air Defense on 9/11, did anyone even consider that even if fighters had scrambled in time, no one would have considered shooting down a civilian airliner in those days?A hijack use to mean taking a plane to Cuba.Once again too, I agree with RadarNav. Just because the current war is against asymmetrical opponents, that doesn&#039;t mean a near-peer (China, Russia, India, etc.) won&#039;t challenge our forces in the future for resources. Once that happens, it&#039;s far too late to start building the next gen fighters.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding Air Defense on 9/11, did anyone even consider that even if fighters had scrambled in time, no one would have considered shooting down a civilian airliner in those days?</p><p>A hijack use to mean taking a plane to Cuba.</p><p>Once again too, I agree with RadarNav. Just because the current war is against asymmetrical opponents, that doesn’t mean a near-peer (China, Russia, India, etc.) won’t challenge our forces in the future for resources. Once that happens, it’s far too late to start building the next gen fighters.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Bambooviper</title><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/08/14/bigger-budgets-fewer-planes/#comment-931</link> <dc:creator>Bambooviper</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 01:06:56 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=591#comment-931</guid> <description>What if you tell the truth, are we suppose to be excluded from chat,freedom of speach is a thing of the past I guessI guess we will see.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What if you tell the truth, are we suppose to be excluded from chat,freedom of speach is a thing of the past I guessI guess we will see.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Cole</title><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/08/14/bigger-budgets-fewer-planes/#comment-918</link> <dc:creator>Cole</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:19:25 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=591#comment-918</guid> <description>The summary on page xvii showed how much stealth materials have added to fighter and bomber costs that are nearly twice the inflation rate since 1975 according to page 11 of the study. One need only compare the cost of a $5000 car in 1975 to a comparable $25,000 car today to see a 5-fold increase in cost vs. more like an 8-fold increase in cost between a early F-15 and a F-22.The bottom line is if you choose stealth...and more titanium instead of the aluminum in the F-16 for instance...then you must live with fewer fighters and bombers. Otherwise air services require a disproportionate share of the DoD budget.The good news is that stealth would cost our enemies just as much. No nation on earth will be able to produce sufficient numbers of stealth aircraft to match the U.S F-22/F-35 fleet, even assuming that they figure out similar technology. Add the exponential increase in the future price of fuel, and maintenance of stealth that deters pilot training, and we can easily handle any threat air force when you add all our services fighters, our own highly capable air defenses, and allied fighter fleets.But when you see pictures in Georgia, you don&#039;t focus on Russian jets. You see Russian tanks and BMPs because those are the systems that establish a ground presence. True our fighters/bombers could put a hurt on those tanks/BMPs...but not so easily if they hide or intermingle with the Georgian population. In the end, you need both airpower and ground power to deter Russia, and fight them conventionally if required should their aggression spread to other former Eastern Bloc countries.So be happy with your last generation of manned aircraft, because with fuel and stealth materiel costs as they are, the next time around we will have many more unmanned fighters/bombers up there resembling Reapers rather than F-22s.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The summary on page xvii showed how much stealth materials have added to fighter and bomber costs that are nearly twice the inflation rate since 1975 according to page 11 of the study. One need only compare the cost of a $5000 car in 1975 to a comparable $25,000 car today to see a 5-fold increase in cost vs. more like an 8-fold increase in cost between a early F-15 and a F-22.</p><p>The bottom line is if you choose stealth…and more titanium instead of the aluminum in the F-16 for instance…then you must live with fewer fighters and bombers. Otherwise air services require a disproportionate share of the DoD budget.</p><p>The good news is that stealth would cost our enemies just as much. No nation on earth will be able to produce sufficient numbers of stealth aircraft to match the U.S F-22/F-35 fleet, even assuming that they figure out similar technology. Add the exponential increase in the future price of fuel, and maintenance of stealth that deters pilot training, and we can easily handle any threat air force when you add all our services fighters, our own highly capable air defenses, and allied fighter fleets.</p><p>But when you see pictures in Georgia, you don’t focus on Russian jets. You see Russian tanks and BMPs because those are the systems that establish a ground presence. True our fighters/bombers could put a hurt on those tanks/BMPs…but not so easily if they hide or intermingle with the Georgian population. In the end, you need both airpower and ground power to deter Russia, and fight them conventionally if required should their aggression spread to other former Eastern Bloc countries.</p><p>So be happy with your last generation of manned aircraft, because with fuel and stealth materiel costs as they are, the next time around we will have many more unmanned fighters/bombers up there resembling Reapers rather than F-22s.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Radarnav</title><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/08/14/bigger-budgets-fewer-planes/#comment-916</link> <dc:creator>Radarnav</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 16:46:52 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=591#comment-916</guid> <description>Bambooviper:  The reasons that there was no immediate air cover during 9/11 was that the budget for air defense over the US was hammered by the previous Clinton administration.  Ever since the Berlin Wall fell, politicians did not see the merit of having a large air defense force protecting US Airspace.  As a result of these budget cuts (to Active, Reserve, &amp; Guard) the closest air defense unit to NYC was on Cape Cod, MA and the closest unit to Wash DC was Langley AFB in VA.Iceball:  I would reconsider your comments given this week&#039;s international events with Russia.  Just because we are in the GWOT does not mean our serious conventential competitors have given up their aims.  Any aggressive land action against any nation state requires the establishment of air dominance first so the ground troops have some chance of success.  Without air dominance, the ground forces can be easily decimated and cut off by an adversary&#039;s air power.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bambooviper:  The reasons that there was no immediate air cover during 9/11 was that the budget for air defense over the US was hammered by the previous Clinton administration.  Ever since the Berlin Wall fell, politicians did not see the merit of having a large air defense force protecting US Airspace.  As a result of these budget cuts (to Active, Reserve, &amp; Guard) the closest air defense unit to NYC was on Cape Cod, MA and the closest unit to Wash DC was Langley AFB in VA.</p><p>Iceball:  I would reconsider your comments given this week’s international events with Russia.  Just because we are in the GWOT does not mean our serious conventential competitors have given up their aims.  Any aggressive land action against any nation state requires the establishment of air dominance first so the ground troops have some chance of success.  Without air dominance, the ground forces can be easily decimated and cut off by an adversary’s air power.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Iceball</title><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/08/14/bigger-budgets-fewer-planes/#comment-908</link> <dc:creator>Iceball</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 14:57:35 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=591#comment-908</guid> <description>AE- that study would be tough to publish because the f-22 and f-35 have never flown a combat mission.  For current wars, the f-22 is useless, though it might be of some use if we ever came to blows with Russia, China, or the EU.  On the other hand, we&#039;d probably be better off filling the skys with f-15s, 16s, and 18s.  As for the f-35, its too fast to be an effective air to ground platform and its not a top tier air to air fighter.For the missions we&#039;re running now and in the forseable future A-10s would be the most effective and most cost-effective platform you could come up with.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AE– that study would be tough to publish because the f-22 and f-35 have never flown a combat mission.  For current wars, the f-22 is useless, though it might be of some use if we ever came to blows with Russia, China, or the EU.  On the other hand, we’d probably be better off filling the skys with f-15s, 16s, and 18s.  As for the f-35, its too fast to be an effective air to ground platform and its not a top tier air to air fighter.</p><p>For the missions we’re running now and in the forseable future A-10s would be the most effective and most cost-effective platform you could come up with.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Tony Conner</title><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/08/14/bigger-budgets-fewer-planes/#comment-907</link> <dc:creator>Tony Conner</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 12:06:55 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=591#comment-907</guid> <description>The success of the Georgian air defenses against the Russian Air Force is why the US Air Force is correct to want stealth. Stealth is expensive, but mission failure or loss of control of the battlespace can be even more expensive. The US Navy can send in it&#039;s F-18E/F as a decoy for the F-35&#039;s when they are available.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The success of the Georgian air defenses against the Russian Air Force is why the US Air Force is correct to want stealth. Stealth is expensive, but mission failure or loss of control of the battlespace can be even more expensive. The US Navy can send in it’s F-18E/F as a decoy for the F-35’s when they are available.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Bambooviper</title><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/08/14/bigger-budgets-fewer-planes/#comment-904</link> <dc:creator>Bambooviper</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 03:08:45 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=591#comment-904</guid> <description>Well, the way I look at it is,when our nation was under attack,the jets did not scramble,so why pay out a bunch of money for something they don&#039;t use when the home land is under attack,we have just been going to solvern nations and bombing hell out of them. Think about it,I do and have for 7 years.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, the way I look at it is,when our nation was under attack,the jets did not scramble,so why pay out a bunch of money for something they don’t use when the home land is under attack,we have just been going to solvern nations and bombing hell out of them. Think about it,I do and have for 7 years.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: AE</title><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/08/14/bigger-budgets-fewer-planes/#comment-902</link> <dc:creator>AE</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:07:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=591#comment-902</guid> <description>Not just the life of the aircrew, which is obviously priceless, but a higher likelihood of a completed mission which can save even more lives on the ground and in the air.  I would prefer RAND to publish a study on mission effectiveness versus dollars spent for an airframe and see if we are heading in the right direction.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not just the life of the aircrew, which is obviously priceless, but a higher likelihood of a completed mission which can save even more lives on the ground and in the air.  I would prefer RAND to publish a study on mission effectiveness versus dollars spent for an airframe and see if we are heading in the right direction.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: LC</title><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/08/14/bigger-budgets-fewer-planes/#comment-884</link> <dc:creator>LC</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 20:15:27 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=591#comment-884</guid> <description>They should subtitle this study &quot;Duh!&quot;</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They should subtitle this study “Duh!”</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: tipover</title><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/08/14/bigger-budgets-fewer-planes/#comment-882</link> <dc:creator>tipover</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:39:42 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=591#comment-882</guid> <description>&quot;That technological superiority does come at considerable unit cost, something RAND thought they should point out to the services.&quot;Stating the obvious.  The bean counter writing that report should be required to &quot;ride along&quot; on the first available &quot;hot&quot; combat mission to see how his attitude changes about money and tech vs. the life of the aircrew.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“That technological superiority does come at considerable unit cost, something RAND thought they should point out to the services.”</p><p>Stating the obvious.  The bean counter writing that report should be required to “ride along” on the first available “hot” combat mission to see how his attitude changes about money and tech vs. the life of the aircrew.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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