Source: Five Generals To Be Disciplined Over Nukes

Source: Five Generals To Be Disciplined Over Nukes

Defense Secretary Robert Gates will announce a range of punishments for at least five general officers and possibly several colonels for lapses connected with the nation’s nuclear weapons.

Several senior Air Force generals declined to comment about the disciplinary actions this afternoon at the Air Force Association’s annual conference. All the officers are reported to be from the Air Force. A congressional aide confirmed the Defense Department told lawmakers yesterday about the impending disciplinary actions. The aide did not know the names of those to be punished. Sources declined to identify them until the punishments were officially announced.

A report by Navy Adm. Kirkland H. Donald, director of naval nuclear propulsion, into the nuclear enterprise detailed a loss of oversight from senior Air Force leaders and lowered performance related to the nuclear mission.


Gates had to intervene personally and ordered Donald’s review after sensitive nuclear parts were sent mistakenly to Taiwan and a B-52 bomber flew across the country carrying six armed nuclear cruise missiles.

Last week, a panel of august experts led by former Defense Secretary James Schlesinger said they had been surprised by the erosion of controls over nuclear weapons since the end of the Cold War and recommended that Air Force Space Command be folded into a new Air Force Strategic Command and urged a range of other measures to ensure airmen dealing with nukes “feel they are part of an important mission.”

Bringing back something like Strategic Air Command is the biggest organizational and functional change recommended by the Task Force on DoD Nuclear Weapons management, which was created by Defense Secretary Gates after several high profile cock-ups involving nuclear weapons or their components. The creation of Space Command has meant that space had attracted “some of the glamour” and left missileers feeling like second tier players. Schlesinger noted that most officers, if they wanted promotions and a decent career path, had to become space qualified and stay in that slot. “Some of the glamour will now move back to the nuclear mission,” he said.

The panel also recommended adding about 2,000 people to the ranks of those Air Force personnel who deal with nuclear matters, Schlesinger told reporters. They also want a single bomber numbered air force created that is responsible for the traditional service responsibilities of organizing, training and equipping. It would be assigned to the new Air Force Strategic Command.

One of the panel’s main goals, aside from the primary goal of restoring a special sense of mission to those in the Air Force who deal with nuclear matters, is to restore confidence among America’s allies that the US nuclear deterrence means something and is reliable. Schlesinger said he thought restoring this confidence would take six months to a year.

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The Glamour of SAC In USAF crew chief ?? we worked in 70-below zero 13–24 hours a day in freezing blizzards non stop.We were combat ready 24/7 365 days a year,No recognition,too late now..woof freekin woof

I’ll bet the reduction in discipline that brought about this mess ocurred during the Clinton military decay.

More likely the five generals were admonished for being found out. IMO this was a mere test by the current regime to see if they could get past Congress with a nuke and enter war before anyone was the wiser. Just a dry run, and all but getting caught red handed, IT WORKED!

The only embarassment for the US armed forces was that they were caught bringing nukes to the staging area for a quick ride to Iran. Only Israel benefits from these endless Middle East wars fought by American soldiers. As the U.S. commits war-crimes abroad, that same gov’t commits treason at home by eliminating habeas corpus, using the judiciary to steal private lands, banning books like “America Deceived” from Amazon, Facebook and Wikipedia, conducting warrantless wiretaps and engaging in illegal wars on behalf of Israel. Soon, another false-flag operation will occur (sinking of an Aircraft Carrier by Mossad) and the US will invade Iran. Then we’ll invade Pakistan, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, then .…
Final link (before Google Books bends to gov’t demands and censors the title):
http://​www​.iuniverse​.com/​B​o​o​k​s​t​o​r​e​/​B​o​o​k​D​e​t​a​i​l​.​a​s​p​x​?​B​o​o​k​I​d​=​S​K​U​-​0​0​0​0​8​3​883

Bring back SAC? It should have never gone away. As a former 46350 nuke weapons specialist, I always felt that I was part ‘of an important mission!’ It was always the mission first with security and safety paramount to the success of that mission. I took my work seriously and worked hard. The mistakes that are presented here, I believe, would have never happened under a SAC structure. I cannot understand how a pylon of missiles ever made it from Minot to Barksdale without anyone knowing?! That would not have been possible when I served. The mission has been forgotten and left behind.

Well, how about that? Remember the great Gen. McPeak, who reorganized the Air Force and eliminated SAC, over the great objections of the strategic guys. Yes, this is the same McPeak that supports Mr. Obama.

Yeah, they were getting ready to nuke Iran.

Some of the posters on the site watch way too much TV.

Wrist slapping several senior officers will not help.

Air Force integrity is at a low. Integirty is a joke not a core value. Thirty years of bad integrity will not be changed by these light weight measures.

What’s a high profile “cock-up?” What’s a low-profile “cock up?” What’s a “cock up?”

Wow, I suppose Mike D also thinks we brought down the towers.

When SAC went away we predicted what would happen but the fighter boys would not listen.

Kind of like what John McCain told the congress about Freddie Mac and Fannie May in 2005…it’s going to fail.

All of the conspiracy nuts will always have the next story line no matter what the real evidence says…

There was nothing glamorous about missile duty. There was nothing glamorous about flying a bomber that was twice as old as you were and to pull alert duty in some of the worst locations in the system.

Maybe they need to bring back spot promotions and make sure that SAC guys get big time rewards for the sacrifice it takes to do it right in the nuclear air force.

Clearly this is just an attempt to cover the real conspiracy behind this story. We all know Bush and his evil friend Cheney staged 911. Some those shots were filmed in the same studio that faked the Apollo Luna(tic) Landings in fact. Just take a look at frame 332902 to see for yourself. In the bottom right quadrant you will see the unmistakable shadow of big man, which is obviously Dick Cheney moving a toy building! Bush wants to invade peaceful Iran, and only our Lord Obama can stop him.

General LeMay had a vision for the Air Force. General McPeak saw things. Tony McPeak is still seeing things since he supports Obama.

MIKE D, THE D OBVIOUSLY STANDS FOR DUMBASS,
I WORKED IN THIS SECTOR OF THE MILITARY, AND I CAN TELL YOU THEY HAVE BEEN MISPLACING,LOOSING, AND FORGETTING NUKES FOR 20 YEARS… IT WAS MY JOB TO FIND THEM AND SECURE THEM AFTER THEY GOT MISPLACED. AFTER THE COLD WAR ENDED THEY WERE NOT SHUFFLED AROUND AS MUCH, WHEN PEOPLE ARE BORED , THEY ENDUP BEING FORGETFUL, OR FAIL TO UPDATE THE NEW SHIFT COMING ON… AND STUFF HAPPENS… AND YOU SIR ARE A BLOOMIN MORON

Where does this “Dave” (post September 17th,2008 at 1:57) get off saying 30 years of bad integrity with not be changed.…I served in SAC, 1965–68, continuously from 1975 though 1985 and we never had “bad integrity”. We had lapses of judgment, sure, but we all felt the mission was paramount and acted like it. I served in the 5th BMW command post, Minot, and none of the supervisors from the weapons storage to the pilot flying the B-52s would have allowed these failures of basic nuclear rules.

This really goes back to General Lee Butler and General Tony McPeak and their disasterous vision to reorganize roles and missions in the early 90’s. If something like SAC returns, then the prophetic patches we wore at the time (“SAC will be Back”) will come true and the last of McPeak’s blunders will have been undone.

It would be nice to blame Tony McPeek. Unfortunately, George Butler wrote the plan and implemented it as the last CINCSAC.

Air Combat Command has always acted as if their sole purpose was to erase any memory of SAC.

There already is/was a bomber Numbered Air Force (8th) under ACC. They transitioned to STRATCOM command in the event of a strategic tasking.

Having said all that, AFSTRAT is a very bad idea. Get the commands that currently have the mission and don’t want it to do the jobs they’re being paid to do. We might actually get to see some Air Force leadership.

Our Air Force discipline was negatively affected by Gen. McPeak and we’re finally getting over some of his “vision”. Gen. Mosely tried to bring back one of his worse projects (putting Aircraft Maintenance back under Operations vs. a Maintenance officer), but the new Chief decided that this led balloon was Code-3 multiple! Good on him!

My brother-in-law served in the air force in the Strategic Air Command for 30 years. He was an idiot with NO common sense at all. I hope the Air Force is not manned by fools like him today. God help us all.

Bring back MAC and TAC while your at it. These commands never should have been broken up to begin with.

26 years actice duty AF, 20 as a BUFF Crew Member, 3 years 91st Missile Wg @ MInot.
So the TAC guys got there way, and threw out SAC now we have this mess. Can’t expect anything less. SAC took things serious, weapons on targets, safety, mission, security. How in the hell does a crew carry live weapon and not know it. How do they get out of the weapons storage area and no one knows it. How they move from point A to B and know one knows it.
In my day 1965–1991 this would have been inpossible, to many cross checks and safe guards. That entire BUFF Crew would have been court martialed, Pilots, Navs, ES and Gunner for such a screw up. Don’t they even preflight walk around the airplane anymore, or is that contracted out to civilians. Missle guys took their job siriously, ask the folks in Minot what happen when a covoy moved off base to a missle site. Every commander on base was on the radio and every key player if a nuke moved. Security was every where. Some lonely airman does not just grab a nuke or nuke part and set it in the back of a pickup to take to the flight line.
People need to be in the Brig, SAC shoud be back and fighter guys can go back to walking around like they are king S—. Bomber and Missle guys and gals can go back to being the professional aviator and war the AF and USA need.

What are these stupid MF’s doing getting so power trippy they lose sight of the most important of the most important NBC lol

As a member of SAC, 1966–1970 and a Minuteman ICBM Missile Crew Commander, I was appalled at the lax standards of the Air Force in dealing with Nucs. We worked exceedingly long hours in incredible weather and in rotten conditions, but we were committed to being the very best we could be. SAC instilled in us the drive, the motivation, and the pride to conduct ourselves and our work so that the nation’s nucs would always be ready and be safe.

We knew that in SAC the missile crews were second place behind the flying crews, but that only put us in third place behind the angels. More recognition would have been great, but it never affected our professionalism.

Bring back SAC. I will give up my retirement and come back to train the new guys or to serve on another missile crew.

And what about Kelly? When she was driving a B-52, did she have her mind on the job?

Correction: I am now appalled at the lax standards. When I was on crew, there were no lax standards, period.

Sorry, I should have proofed my comment better, but I was worked up.

Whatever McPeak did or didn’t do, y’all are overlooking the fact that failures have occurred and need to be addressed. Blaming people from the 90’s for failings of today is ridiculous.

Here here, bring back SAC. As a former 91st missile crew member and 5th BW Command Post Controller I was amazed that a BUFF Crew could fly with live weapons. SAC needs to come back its the only way to fix the issue IMHO.

Why is it that we have medals for Iraq and medals for Kuwait and no medals for the Cold War? Just shows the level of importance leadership at the Air Force level showed for us former nuclear warriors. 232 nuclear alerts and they gave me a certificate. Put a true missile guy in charge of the Air Force and then see how many F-22s we buy.

I was a 46350B in SAC. These things did NOT happen. Under LeMay, we trained to perfection and performed consistently at that level — or you were out. We were a proud lot.

Mike D
You said “Soon, another false-flag operation will occur (sinking of an Aircraft Carrier by Mossad) and the US will invade Iran.”

First of all, do you know how hard it would be to sink a carrier? Double reinforced hull, Aegis destroyers and cruisers in picket around it, F/A-18 Hornets and S-3B Viking sub hunters. Attack Subs on patrol around it. Hell it would take a nuke torpedo to sink it and good luck getting a sub close enough to fire it. I’m not saying it can’t be done, but Israel doesn’t even have the right tools to pull it off and there about 5,500 well trained sailors on a carrier that might have a thing or two to say about it.

Next you said; “Then we’ll invade Pakistan, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, then…”

Apparently you have a much greater opinion of our military than I do. Don’t get me wrong, I loved my time in the Navy (96–03) but we can barely handle Iraq and Afghanistan at the same time, how we gonna pull all of that off?

Personally, I think you have watched one too many JAG episodes.

Isn’t it interesting that 6 of the crew involved had “accidents” afterward? Laws of probability…millions to one. Read for yourself: http://​www​.legitgov​.org/​m​i​n​o​t​_​a​f​b​_​n​u​k​e​s​_​o​d​d​i​t​i​e​s​.​h​tml

The paranoia and tin-foil hat crowd is out today! Test run to steal a Nuke? Test run to smuggle a nuke for bombing Iran? All wars in Mid-East created to benefit Israel (yeah, they’ll kill thousands of Israeli’s just to keep the weapons coming)?

Must be the same crowd who thinks WE brought down the towers and rammed a missle into the Pentagon, even though eye-witnesses SAW the plane go over their apartment complex.

You people REALLY need to get some therapy.

This happened because of the draw-down and eliimination of SAC. I was in SAC, TAC, and MAC — AND IT WORKED! Don’t fool with our defense to save a few bucks.

I spent 20 years in TAC, USAFE and PACAF as a munitions/EOD officer and I can not believe anything like this ever happening. The troops that I worked with were extremely conscience and worked extremely hard keeping the two man concept intact. I have been retired since 1982 and I was really surprised to see the combat commands broken up and put into one.

with all these negative comments i would like to point out that there is good news to a certain extent. i do not in recent memory remember hearing anything like this about the navy component of the triad. in fact you hardly hear anything about them, as it should be.
usn ret

We are so sad today. Living in ‚la de da land. God help us all. Because we are f.….

I’m retired Navy aviation on nuculear powered aircrafat carriers. I have worked beside Airforce for a number of years and think it so ironic that a NAVY ADMIRAL had to be sent in to access the AF situation. Get rid of airforce combine into Army and Navy.

MikeD — You are seriously in need of help. Limitless paranoia is an illness and mental health as poor as yours has to be addressed.

no one has speculated on who the five GOs might be?!?!

how about 8 AF/CC? others?

while my knowledge is imperfect, Mindy C. is right–what’s a cock-up?

btw, as a former stan-eval guy, I can say there were goof-ups, even back in the day

>Joe September 17th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
>
>I’ll bet the reduction in discipline that >brought about this mess ocurred during the >Clinton military decay.

don’t you mean the GOP Congress that controlled the military decay??

My kid worked at Barksdale where the nukes landed. Right beforehe got there, they were inspected. They had expected Air Farce inspectors, but the Navy showed up. The Navy ripped them a new a$$hole, and the Barksdale group spent months working 12 hours/day training for the required inspection to clear the discrepancies. Maybe we ought to turn over the Air Force nukes to the Navy. You can shoot down a bomber, but you first have to find the submarine before you can shoot it. And the Navy knows how to handle nukes.

the genreals are republicans DUH!

It’s nice to see that there are some that still remember. I remember the ramp freezes if they were moving weapons. I really don’t understand how it could happen today. (NOT that I’m willing to believe a bunch of crap about everyone on the crew getting killed). Start the water.…

I was SACumcised from 1988 to 1992 in Grand Forks N.D. At the ripe old age of 18 I hated SAC because the duty was long, cold, and boring. Nuke standards and safety were drilled into us every day. We had to memorize codes, standards and procedures. We were grilled every day. It was the duty of every enlisted man to ensure that nothing went wrong. Even the lowest ranking airman could blow the whistle and identify a problem. In fact, we were encouraged to. How this bomber took off??? My last base was Griffiss AFB in N.Y. In 1998 I was able to drive my car into the old weapons storage area, beside the ramp and into places where I would have been arrested at gunpoint in 1991. Sad. P.S. legitgov is a leftest propaganda site, don’t believe what you read.

MIKE D.…looks like Israel is responsible for everything…huh? You are obviously one of the “fire up the ol ovens crowd”…you flipping moron.…

As an old GLCM troop in Europe and then a MMII Team Chief at Ellsworth, SD, I know all about those 50–70 below wind-chill temps and the “Just Quit Whining and Get It Done” attitude of SAC.

BRING IT BACK. SAC all the way…

clark Sept 17th, 2008 at 3:17pm

you are an idiot. The link you have that shows conspiracy has links about the same airman’s death and he was a security forces member that had nothing to do with the nukes.

MIKE D…you are an idiot and do not have a clue of what you speak. This was simply a set of screw ups.…happen constantly in the governmental operations, including the military. Nukes are just like a load of tools when sent to the wrong place…just numbers on a transit sheet. You belong in the conspiracy nuthouse. Sheeesh!

I was in SAC and mission was paramount. I worked missiles, minuteman and MX, while in the service and out as a contractor. I did not even know SAC was abolished until a lifer friend told me and how severe the morale had changed. New service members are not told how important the mission is to the safety of our country nor how much their sacrifice is to that mission. If you don’t think working the missile field is a hardship, I would suggest trying a Wyoming winter for your enjoyment.

The ultimate currency from al others derive is integrity. If you don’t have it, the other commodities you possess will be worthless, as nobody will want to trade with a dishonest merchant. This can be applied to lodges, banks, and governments as well. If there is a consistent series of actions that are undermining the American Ideal, then of course the citizenry are going to start asking questions, and perhaps even seeing the lodge/bank/government as actually perpetrating whatever dastardly deeds we think they are committing, simply because they are no longer reliable institutions, whose only function is to hold on to what fleeting power they have accumulated. We as a ntion were done the moment we invaded Iraq. It’s all downhill from here. I for one see the bright side. The future war against stupidity, waged by the patriots who see the nation has been bought and sold, against the human cattle who still beleiev every friggin’ word thier masters utter

Mr paul revere there are rumors that one of the six nukes was not recovered. Is that true?

Bring SAC back. Those folks understand the importance and criticality of their mission. SAC’s existence will send a message to both friend and enemy that we have and are prepared to use nuclear weapons when necessary and can control them at all times.

Maybe the Generals should be working in the warehouse and on the flightline!

I’m also a former 46370 and SAC veteran. The failure to perform even basic safety checks resulted in this fiasco, not to mention the lack of leadership by CMSgt Brenda Langlois (Minot WSA superintendent), who apparently is being forced to retire in lieu of punishment. Throw the book at those responsible!
In USAFE even after the Wall fell and the USSR collapsed, we continued with our rigorous inspection process, evaluations, alerts, and exercises. Why the USAF decided to forego the basics of war fighting in Air Combat Command is unbelievable.

To bad a certain former stratcom commander isn’t going to be on the list.

Only in the USA these errors are published. Can you imagine what mistakes Russian or Chinese scum make daily?

100th ARW

Man, I hated my tours in SAC. 83–88 as a missile officer at Minot AFB. Loved Minot but hated the job. Lots of pressure but all of it necessary. Then I worked at a SAC command post in Eielson AFB , AK. Boy was it night and day between a nuke mission and a gas passing (KC-135s) and we also supported a TAC unit of A-10s.

A focused nuclear command is needed. But there was no doubt that missile crews were second class in the Air Force compared to the flying crews. But hey, at least now they get leather jackets and flight suits just like the fly guys. Even experimented with a lame missile badge that goes in the same location as a flyers. Though I understand the old badge is either back or on the way back.

I’m surprised to learn that the great President Bill Clinton oversaw the closing of SAC, since that’s where he was always trying to get most of the bimbo’s into…

I turned down promotion to Major and left the Air Force in 1989 when it became painfully obvious to the most casual observer that the service had gone “full-time peace-time.” Officers were being promoted early because of their connections, not their competence, and politicans ruled the universe.

I wondered when those chickens would be coming home to roost…

One nuke is still missing ans several Airmen from Minot Air Force Base died in the weeks after this incident.

http://​www​.globalresearch​.ca/​i​n​d​e​x​.​p​h​p​?​c​o​n​t​e​x​t​=​v​a​&​a​m​p​;​a​i​d​=​7​158

http://​www​.dailykos​.com/​s​t​o​r​y​/​2​0​0​7​/​1​0​/​3​1​/​1​5​2​5​1​2​/08

Embarressing is an understatement. A General isn’t on the flight line, nor is the Wing Commander for routine movements, but in the old days, every man in the chain of command knew when nucs were on the move, be it a local “elephant walk” or a something bigger. Maybe part of it is having fighter jocks in charge of strategic weapons — another of the McPeak ideas gone wrong. Sometimes being a genius can result in wonderful ideas, but putting them into practice will prove them out — this was an idea, among many, that only looked good on paper — when the results proved otherwise, the General, and those who succeeded him, said ” make it work! “. It didn’t !!

SAC 61–70, this was the place to be if you believed in honesty and integrity. I was a Buff crewmember, OMS Chief and at SAC HQ and in all assignments I found that professionalism was not only expected but demanded. Failure to meet SAC requirements resulted in reassignment or worse. Long hours and both airborne and ground alerts required continuos study. I would not trade my time in SAC for any other assignment.

SIX NUKES loaded not Five!!

http://​www​.militarytimes​.com/​n​e​w​s​/​2​0​0​8​/​0​2​/​a​i​r​f​o​r​c​e​_​n​u​k​e​_​h​e​a​r​i​n​g​_​0​8​0​2​1​2w/

I was hoping they were preparing to honor their Constitutional Oaths and defend the Constitution.…

We don’t need SAC to return. Integrity is the key. Integrity won’t return just because SECDEF Gates slaps the wrists of a few senior officers. Integrity won’t return because of a larger defense budget.

Jack K may not have seen the lack of integrity at Minot during his tours, but by the mid-1980’s bad integrity was eating away SAC’s infrastructure.

The setup for failure was set before the 1990s. The decline started after Vietnam and accelerated in the late 80’s and 90s. The emphasis was to look good rather than being good. The Air Force promoted officers and NCOs with low moral character and lack of ability. Men of high standards and abilities were passed over because of internal Air Force directives.

The lack of integrity permiates the current Air Force from top to bottom and command to command. Been there. Got the shirts to prove it.

It’s like they said back in ’92: “Who killed SAC? The Butler did it!”

K.

What has become of my beloved USAF.

Thank the good Lord I left the service before the mis-managing McPeak took the reins. I bet Gen. Lemay is spinning in his grave.

I’m one of the few remaining AF bubbas around who saw the Cold War AF and am still on duty. A couple of perspectives

- The issue is not integrity. I can count on one finger the number of AF members I seriously believed had no integrity.
– The real issue, I believe, is that we have even further increased our lack of “militariness” as a Service. Too many AF officers and NCOs want to be liked/loved by the troops and all ranks seem to believe that there is something wrong if they have to put in more than 40 hours a week.
– Bring back the days when Cols and Chiefs regularly got in your face in a major way if you or your work wasn’t up to speed. Its all about holding people accountable for their actions. Once we get back to military basics, we’ll be just fine.
– Organizationally, I don’t know how any organization like 8AF could be successful at what their mission is. Can anyone really explain what cyber, bombers, ISR and being an have in common that extends beyond weakly reasoned AF propaganda?
– The recreation of SAC with bombers and missiles will be hard on the airplane side. One of the positive impacts of the demise of SAC was using bombers in ways and with more flexibility than ever before in an overwhelmingly conventional way. Should be an interesting mission.
– Oh yeah…don’t let DOD off the hook. They killed the old SAC by morphing it into a big muddle of missions that is now USSTRATCOM…which is a mere shadow of the glory days.

Sorry but hate to tell the Navy Submariner but his line is faulty. Navy has never inspected Barksdale. They may have been along as observers but not as inspectors. Also, Barksdale did not work 12 hour shifts because of the inspection. They did it because they are poorly manned as is most of the Air Force. As for the navy being perfect, their slips just have not made as much press. Remember who came up under a Japanese fishing boat and who ran into an underseas mountain, to mention a few.

I’d like to know who the five are. There’s one or two I’m hoping make that list ;-)

There IS an integrity issue here with General Officers in all the services. When Republicans in the Congress were the willing accomplices of the Democrats during the Clinton administration, cutting active duty forces by 40%, NO General Officers stood up and EVER said that if the cuts continued, we would not be able to fulfill our global mission. NOT ONE. As I recall, one air force general was fired for calling Bill a “Dope smoking, womanizing draft-dodger”, but ALL of the senior general officers (ALL services included) said we could fulfill our global mission. NOW, standards in the unused strategic forces are becoming lax due to trying to keep the forces engaged in supporting the Iraq and Afghan theatres operational. WHY? Because these forces are stripped to the bone to man-up the units involved directly. In the Army and Marines, the troops in theatre are meeting themselves going and coming. Forgotten was the concept of having two divisions at home for every one deployed (one preparing to go, and one recovering from the deployment). Our politicians failed to understand that the “Peace dividend” does not mean that if you have peace, you don’t need as many troops, but that if you have a large enough, equipped enough, and trained enough force, you will have peace. Clearly, a leadership shake up is required as much of the current leadership can’t see this as a problem.

McPeak was too busy implimenting his wife’s request to re-design the AF dress uniforms to pay attention to the “minor” details of security.

And too enamored with the fighter mafia to pay attention to anything else.

some of the more “sensible” comments bring back memories. I ran the Base Print Shop at Minot AFB, 1969–71. Many interesting AF people came to our shop for printing services (before everyone had their own copiers). Some were AF Lifers and some just put in their time until discharge, but they were all dedicated.One incident stands out. The Senator before Kennedy of Mass. (can’t remember his name)said in Congess, that the US would not put multiple warheads on missiles, not while he was in office. A Full bird Colonel in charge of the new MIRV program (at Minot) said to his staff (in so many words) “to hell with what the Senator said, the MIRVS will be installed”,.…. and they were.
You can’t go back to those days but USAF can go forward with a new missile concept and the old saying “Peace Through Strength” might not be a bad motto to use again.
One problem with all of this,.…… MAD will rise again and nations with atomic capabilities will cause more headaches than the ones we had with the Russians,.….another cold war with more players ???

Mike D and Raimundo must be dating. Or maybe they’re just trying their hands at irony…naw…they’re idiots.

Interesting how the squid shipmen chime in. There have been some oops events on subs they too would like to forget. I think there’s also a rule about letting speed boats run into the side of your ship. Seems more to me like a systematic problem whereby everyone actually followed an order and even kept it quiet, go figure. The order turned out to be wrong and those responsible (e,g., generals) will be punished. What if there ever is a real world need to quietly load these up. Should they get on the bull horn and say time out lets go make sure everyone knows we’re loading & transporting live nukes??

Happy Birthday USAF!!!

Re: wanting to know the names of the five GOs to be punished…anyone for setting up a “Dead Pool” to guess who will get the axe? Winner gets bragging rights

I am always laughing about the touters that want SAC to come back. Because if it dose.. it will be NOTHING like what it once was.

Too much time has passed… and too much organizational changes have occured since the demise of SAC.

Dereliction of Duty, that’s what they did. Hang all their ASS’s! And do ‘em a favor and throw them out of the USAF with a BCD.

How many of you nuke load toads pulled exercises to nuke USAF bases in controlled demolitions? That’s what we did at RAF Upper Heyford in England, before Jew Bill Clinton Blythe III (bastard Rockefeller) closed the base. US nukes were targeted at Western Europe in the 1980s and 90s, not at Communist Europe. Iran-Contra included USAF and NATO arming Iran and Iraq using stolen NATO stockpiles, even during Iraq War #1.

http://​piratenews​.org/​p​e​n​t​a​g​o​n​w​h​i​s​t​l​e​b​l​o​w​e​r​.​h​tml

Iraq was out ally at the time, and Bush Sr’s ambassador April Glaspie told Saddam to go ahead and invade Kuwait.

US special forces rescued President Qadaffi just hours before USAF and RAF bombed his home, killing his daughter, 2 USAF pilots and 40 innocent civilians. This was to “prevent an international incident in case visiting dignitaries got killed”, according to the chief of public affairs for US Marine Corps at the Pentagon, Dr Stoney Merriman. As Merriman said, “you wouldn’t believe what really goes on at the Pentagon”.

Pentagon’s Operation Northwoods was declassified (leaked) in 2000, reported in April 2001, as a signed confession by the Zionist Jewish chairman of the joint chiefs, General Lyman Lemnitzer, to DOD, CIA and White House perping terrorist attacks in USA, bombing Washington DC, and hijacking fake CIA airlienrs by remote control, to blame innocent nations and start a world war. Israel trying to sink USS Liberty, and assassination of JFK, were part of Northwoods. So was 9/11. Alarm Red. This is not a drill.

http://​abcnews​.go​.com/​U​S​/​s​t​o​r​y​?​i​d​=​9​2​6​6​2​&​a​m​p​;​p​age=…
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.p…

Man, it seems the only befit of this blog is to provide a bunch of morons a site to make some of the most incredibly stupid comments I have ever seen. Conspiracy theories; bring back SAC; service bashing etc. I really like Mongo’s comment about the Chief at Minot. How is it possible you know what she did? Perhaps you’re a disgruntle fellow 2W2?

To you squids, the Navy is not lily white; you have your issues as well. Nevertheless, I have to credit you for doing a better job at keeping them under wraps. To all you SAC pukes, you cannot bring SAC back; it was a different time and different people, not the initials. By the way, don’t forget, SAC was in-change for all 24 Broken Arrows, the most serious nuclear accident, the AF ever had. In addition, to the brain dead Mike D, get a life. Your comments are the most moronic of all… Matter of fact most of you guys should get a life and stop kicking people who are down when you little or no real knowledge of what happened. There were some very dedicated capable people who got hurt just because they were part of the unit at Minot.

Most of you miss the essence of Secretary Robert Gates message that was fundamental changes are necessary in how the AF manages and supports the nuclear mission. However, that can only happen if the AF embraces the full mission and supports it as an institution

Mike D. Give me a break! What’s the “D” stand for? Deluded? Deranged? Deadbeat? Dufus? Dumb***? You’re clearly doing touch & go’s on the runway of reality. The next thing we know, you’ll be recommending open, unconditional dialogue with that madman, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. No wait—some other nitwit has already publicly suggested that idea.

Try this on for size. The reason only 5 missiles were received at Barksdale Air force base when 6 nuclear tipped cruise missiles left Minot is because 1 was launched on us.

You may recall that Steve Fossett pretended he was lost and went into hiding so as to allow the Air force to recover the lost missile without waking up the population as to what actually happened.

You may say “Oh sure; another conspiracy theorist.”

Can you say “Living Dead?”

The reason you can say it is because that is what you and all of your friends and family are; the Living Dead.

As a former enlisted munitions guy and then a munitions officer in the Air Force for two decades, I am not surprised at this kind of mediocre performance. I was also the MASO (munitions accountable supply officer) for many years. We were in charge of keeping track of the nucs. I will offer just one example of a failure of leadership I saw before I retired. The Air Force in all of its wisdom decided to do away with munitions officers and turn everyone into an aircraft maintenance officer. How does that happen? My munitions knowledge base took many, many years to build. I had no idea of what it took to do aircraft maintenance but in the Air Force Officer Corp functional knowledge doesn’t matter because officers are managers. Well, the problem is you can’t have an officer corp that doesn’t know what is going on functionally in my opinion. That is the problem. The Officer Corp in the Air Force is detached from what is going on, on a day to day basis in my opinion. Right before I retired all of the O-5’s and 6’s were wasting millions of man hours doing this goofy TQM stuff. Those hours, in my opinion, should have been used to get a better idea of what was happening on the flight line and in the ops/maint areas. Either the Officers are running the show or the Chief Master Sergeants are running the show in which case we need to get rid of the Officers and promote the Chiefs to Officers and save a bunch of money. By the way, my Air Force career was the most facinating career a person could have.

US and Israel invaded Russia, as part of nuking Iran via Georgia. These “missing” nukes were a mutiny against the treasonous Jr Bush White House.
http://​piratenews​-tv​.blogspot​.com/​2​0​0​8​/​0​8​/​w​o​r​l​d​-​w​a​r​-​4​-​o​n​-​8​8​8​-​u​s​-​a​t​t​a​c​k​s​-​r​u​s​s​i​a​.​h​tml

“It is the business of a general to be quiet and thus insure secrecy. He must be able to mystify his officers and men by false reports and appearances, and thus keep them in total ignorance.“
—Sun Tzu, The Art of War

“If we do go to war, psychological operations are going to be absolutely a critical, critical part of any campaign that we must get involved in.“
–General H. Norman Schwarzkopf

US Ambassador to Iraq April Glaspie: “I have direct instructions from President Bush to improve our relations with Iraq. We have considerable sympathy for your quest for higher oil prices, the immediate cause of your confrontation with Kuwait. We can see that you have deployed massive numbers of troops in the south. Normally that would be none of our business.“
President Saddam Hussein: “As you know, for years now I have made every effort to reach a settlement on our dispute with Kuwait. There is to be a meeting in two days; I am prepared to give negotiations only this one more brief chance. (pause) When we (the Iraqis) meet (with the Kuwaitis) and we see there is hope, then nothing will happen. But if we are unable to find a solution, then it will be natural that Iraq will not accept death.“
Glaspie: “We have no opinion on your Arab — Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960’s, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America.“
President Saddam Hussein: (smiles)
–Videotaped meeting between Iraqi President Saddam Hussein and US Ambassador April Glaspie, July 25, 1990 (Eight days before the August 2, 1990 Iraqi Invasion of Kuwait)

Journalist 2: “You knew Saddam was going to invade (Kuwait) but you didn’t warn him not to. You didn’t tell him America would defend Kuwait. You told him the opposite — that America was not associated with Kuwait.“
Journalist 1: “You encouraged this aggression — his invasion. What were you thinking?“
US Ambassador Glaspie: “Obviously, I didn’t think, and nobody else did, that the Iraqis were going to take all of Kuwait.“
–US Embassy, Baghdad, Iraq, September 2, 1990

“Gen Michael Dugan, former Air Force chief of staff, once expressed his frustration over the Air Force’s inability to educate its forces on doctrine. Dugan noted that if someone questioned an Army officer on his doctrine, he or she could quote chapter and verse from Army doctrine. Asked the same question, an Air Force officer could tell you when the bar opened at the Officers’ Club. Dugan went on to assert that the Air Force was producing what were, in effect, “illiterate truck drivers.‘
—Col Dennis M. Drew, USAF, Retired, AEROSPACE POWER, “INVENTING A DOCTRINE PROCESS”

“Former Air Force chief of staff Gen Michael Dugan once commented to me that the Air Force is producing a generation of illiterate truck drivers. He worried that officers who aspire to senior leadership positions know a great deal about airplanes and precious little about airpower. They can skillfully talk with their hands about air tactics but are ill prepared to think with their heads about air strategy. For 20 years I have watched the crème de la crème of the Air Force officer corps come to Air University’s Air Command and Staff College (ACSC) and Air War College (AWC). For the most part, these officers have been appallingly ignorant of the bedrock foundation of airpower thinking, virtually oblivious to airpower theory and its development, and without any appreciation of airpower history and its meaning.“
—Colonel Dennise Drew, USAF Retired, “EDUCATING AIR FORCE OFFICERS,” Aerospace Power Journal, Summer 1997

The US is FUBAR, and for one reason ISRAEL.

Too many changes, no time to really let any change take hold before they change again, closing Kelly and McClellan — Expecting more with less, No one willing to take a stand or issue a real policy, No leaders and damn poor managers, no guts, no gumption, the list can go on and on… it wasn’t one mistake or one person to blame, but if we really want to point a finger let go for the obvious — Congress and hte special interest groups (read that contractors) who bribe them.

Man, the Moonbat crowd is out in full force today.

Meanwhile, this could get interesting when they release the names.

Wow, you Yanks are in a world of hurt. 911 wasn’t an inside job? Just like Cheny never worked for the same company that got all your no bid contracts for your illegal wars in Iraq and Afgan. Remeber 6 nukes were loaded, 5 arrived. Cheny, Bush and Co sure has your country by the balls, and your freedom. Good Luck.

Mike D. –you’re right on target. I google searched=== mossad sinks u.s. carrier, blames it on Iran.==== I got a whole page of scenarios about Black Flag Ops.

Don’t let these mis-information deusch bags try to mis-lead the mind in the box crowd.

yes bring back sac and tac. there was a lot more pride when you were in . as a former 462 ( weapons loader) you were more a wear of what was going on around you. I guest the 2 man concept went out the window. I rember having S.P. watching over you shoulder every move you made. Us vets should go back and show them how it should be done, the right way.

I don’t have this straight. Are these the people who made a run for Iran, or are they the one’s who stopped it?

You conspiracy nuts should be institutionalized.

The U.S. carrier sinking–blamed on Iran scenario pages date back to 2006. So much for reliable information.

Also all of the supposed airmen killed to cover for the alleged stolen nuke is a joke. They even counted the same person twice in their conspiracy and two of them died months before the mistake.

The deterioration in the USAF has been continuing for many years. During my time in the service we had such idiots as Merrill McPeak, who put mandatory videos trying to convince a doubting force that the new (butt-ugly) service dress uniform (which he designed) ahead of readiness — or anything else.

The fact of the matter is that the senior leadership has been tainted by political suck-ups, nepotism, and a host of other things corrosive to military discipline and morale.

Senior leadership DERELICTION OF DUTY on the nuclear issue is only part of that sad legacy.

So which generals get “disciplined?”

Does the head cop get axed? How about the guy sitting at the top of the munitions maintenance crews? I hear they both still have job. Why?

Dear readers,

The names and punishments of the generals should be announced Tuesday, Sept. 23. If I get the names and any other details I will post them as soon as I can.

Colin Clark
Editor
DoDBuzz

Well, it’s Tuesday, the 23rd… I suspect there is going to be human version of the (GMR-4 DC NO GO) in USAF General Land, LMAO…

Well, am still on Active Duty, and was in Cold War…and yes I date myself and yes long in the tooth…however, no conspiricy…erosion yes, force cuts yes, budget cuts yes, war on terror yes…priority goes to political sway…Civial leaders really decide whats what…money, force levels etc.…can’t cut AF to the bone and expect perfection…more than 80 percent serving today never heard of SAC…and many that were in SAC and still on active service are working elsewhere… Is unfortunate..but blame must go somewhere…and when your in the hot seat..tag your it…just like a politican…one of my Cols..who I saw enter as a 2nd Lt was in the seat less than few weeks, tag…your it! Disiplined for command failure. Just remember to vote in November…

Don’t forget that SAC also brought us bombing the jungles of Vietnam without any clue of what was happening on the ground. That’s the fight we’re in today. McPeak, LeMay, and others are interesting, but irrelevant. Here’s the question: In the past 10 years, has a wing commander who has failed an inspection been fired? How many have been promoted? It has nothing do to do with SAC, TAC, ACC, or anything else. It has to do with making people acountable. (court is still out on that…)

Sac wasn’t responsible for the target decisions in Vietnam, that was McNamara and the whiz kids who in their infinite wisdom figured that if you drop so many tons of bombs, you kill so many fighters on the ground– ergo drop your bombs anywhere. SAC leadership wanted to make Hanoi and Haiphong glow in the dark and if they couldn’t do that, then at least let them do STRATEGIC bombing on targets there. They only got their wish during Linebacker 2. Which was more effective?

I Sacumcised alot of troops at Grand Forks (84–93) as a Security Supervisor. SAC had balls and did things the right (and only) way. AFMC and ACC have their heads so far up their butts they can’t even spell nuclear security.

Wow, I was surprised to see that a former colleague of mine, we were maintenance Captains together at Edwards AFB, (MSUG) maintenance and supply group, BG Cameron, was nailed for failures in the nuc incident. I never knew he made General until today. I remember he was certainly the fair haired officer within Edward’s Maint. community. That assignment was the turning point in my career where I became aware of the fact that, in far too many cases, the officer corp seemed to me to be detached from what was truly going on in their areas of responsibility. Also, I could not go to even one more of the goofy TQM meetings. But I must say, I had an extremely fascinating career flying airplanes and using high explosives.

I truly believe that in our over bureaucratized system the Officer/Enlisted model, in the USAF, does not work to the high level I, as a taxpayer expect. Will it change for the better? Will Hank Paulson stop the cascading defaults in the financial system? History tells us no. So that is why we need to maintain a robust nuclear deterrent.

Good Morning,

First, I think we need to applaud Secretary Gates’ possible reactivation of the Strategic Air Command – or Strategic Command – whatever he decides.

With regards to the recent and very serious lapses in Nuclear Surety, I can truthfully comment, that issues of these natures never happened when the mission had a pinpoint focus. I was assigned to the 740 SMS (Charlie LCC) and then to the 91 SWM/DOV at Minot. Our mission(s) were clear, concise and focused. If one were to look at the designation “LGM30G” and break out the nomenclature, you’ll find it’s for silo launched, SURFACE attack. Similarly the BGM 109G is a variant of the Tomahawk LAND attack missile (C/N).

Subsequent assignments led me to TAC and then to USAFE/NATO positions. While the missions of these tactical commands is certainly no less important than that of SAC, there are significant differences in the way personnel train and exercise for their respective missions – all the while the nuclear “guys and girls” have no real role in air to air or air to ground mission.

When you’re in the ICBM Launch Control Center or in the B-52 cockpit – designated for special weapons, the mission is simple – it Strategic to our nation – nothing more nothing less.

John Evans

SAC only worked because there was a cold war and nuclear weapons were was the deterrent of choice. I was a nuke troop for an entire career. Worked about every weapon in the inventory.

We used to joke that you could paint “trainer” on the side of a weapon and roll it out the WSA gate and that’s what happened at Minot. Once everyone believed the ACM didn’t have warheads in them then no one bothered to check and recheck as usual. The incident was a failure of leadership at all levels but mostly at the Senior NCO level. All those SNCOs either retired with their full retirement or were just moved to other jobs with no punishment.

The Navy doesn’t have this kind of problem becuase their weapons only go from one of two weapons storage areas to subs and back. Maintenance on the warheads is done by contractors. Their mission is much more narrow than the Air Force’s.

The Air Force is currently aligning all of its nuclear units under the Nuclear Weapons Center at Kirtland AFB. If anyone thinks this is going to solve any problems they are sadly mistaken. NWC is the biggest waste of space in the AF today.

I also hate to tell some of you rabid conservatives here that SAC was deactivated in June 92. That was when George H.W. Bush was president. Not Bill Clinton. It was G.H.W. Bush who started the drawdown of the military after the fall of the Soviet Union and coined the term “peace dividend.” I wish you guys would learn your history instead of foaming at the mouth.

I was at RAF Heyford from 90 to 93 in 20th Trans Squadron

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