Gates: U.S. Needs New Ways to Buy

Gates: U.S. Needs New Ways to Buy

Refining his warning about next war-itis, Defense Secretary Robert Gates told students at the National Defense University today that the U.S. needs a “parallel” acquisition system to get weapons to the battlefield much more nimbly than does the current system.

In a wide-ranging speech, Gates pointed to the examples of MRAPs, the anti-IED effort and uparmored Humvees as proof that the current system really doesn’t do a very good job of anticipating needs for assymetric warfare or for counterinsurgencies. “When it comes to procurement, for the better part of five decades, the trend has gone towards lower numbers as technology gains made each system more capable. In recent years these platforms have grown ever more baroque, ever more costly, are taking longer to build, and are being fielded in ever dwindling quantities,” Gates told an attentive audience or more than 500 hundred students at the National Defense University.

“In addition, the prevailing view for decades was that weapons and units designed for the so-called high-end could also be used for the low…The need for the state of the art systems — particularly longer range capabilities — will never go away, as we strive to offset the countermeasures being developed by other nations,” he said. “But at a certain point, given the types of situations we are likely to face — and given, for example, the struggles to field up-armored Humvees, MRAPs, and ISR in Iraq — it begs the question whether specialized, often relatively low-tech equipment for stability and counterinsurgency missions is also needed.”


Gates noted that weapons for counterinsurgency and many niche capabilities lack their own support network. The problem is that, “apart from the special forces community and some dissident colonels, for decades there has been no strong, deeply rooted constituency inside the Pentagon or elsewhere for institutionalizing our capabilities to wage asymmetric or irregular conflict — and to quickly meet the ever-changing needs of our forces engaged in these conflicts.”

Why did the American military “have to bypass existing institutions and procedures to get the capabilities we need to protect our troops and pursue the wars we are in? Our conventional modernization programs seek a 99 percent solution in years. Stability and counterinsurgency missions – the wars we are in – require 75 percent solutions in months. The challenge is whether in our bureaucracy and in our minds these two different paradigms can be made to coexist.”

Musing aloud during an answer to a question from the students, Gates posed the question: “does there need to be a parallel procurement program?” He answered his own question, admitting that he thought something is needed but: “I’m not sure what that structure looks like.” But it is needed, he said, and it must be institutionalized.

That looks a job for the next administration.

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“Why did the American military have to bypass existing institutions and procedures to get the capabilities we need to protect our troops and pursue the wars we are in? ”

Because existing institutions and procedures are Cold War relics with 1990s-style ISO management duct-taped onto them. The assumption of the modern production system is that building 183 F-22 is exactly the same as building 10,000 F-86.

Can BIG SAFARI work? http://​www​.fas​.org/​i​r​p​/​p​r​o​g​r​a​m​/​c​o​l​l​e​c​t​/​b​i​g​_​s​a​f​a​r​i​.​htm

The parallel structure Gates would like to see exists within laboratories and the ACTD programs. It has been used successfully but it jumps over too many “tried and true” DoD 5000 series acquisition bureaucracies and procedures that continually fail. It breaks too many “laws” and regulations that are often outdated and constraining and too hard to change.

It doesn’t value the acquisition skill-set enough and puts too many of them out of work or would require them to be reassigned and not be top dogs. Why do we have to bypass existing institutions and procedures Gates asks? Because they don’t work for all procurements, no, make that many procurements. Secretary Gates understands that. So he wants to know what to do.

Legitimize and authorize this very well tested alternative structure, keep AFMC’s hand in it, throw out the constraining guidelines and let these developer/user-managed groups transition (buy/field) weapons they are tasked to demonstrate. It’s not that big a change either. They lack authority, not structure.

Don’t let acquirers offer to study this to death either. I’ve heard the arguments that users just don’t understand acquisition and supportability management. That’s bull. So find people that do when needed and put them on the team.

The system that is currently in place is a finely
tuned machine. It has been perfected over the years since World War 1. Contractors and “Vendors“
have slowly infiltrated every level of AMC and
other branches of procurement. From the policy makers to the people that write the guidelines,
even the newbies at the web pages that handle the emails. The FARs and The AMC regulations and procedures are tailored to benefit very large contractors and get worse every year. The vehicle procurement system is designed to take designs from the inventor and give them to a favored contractor. With little or no compensation to the person who brought the idea to the solder in the first place. Colt/ M4, GDLS/Striker, GM/AMG/ Armored Humvee, GDLS/Sgt.
York, AMG M900 and Stewart and Stevenson offer Trucks that like to roll over and kill their
occupants. One of the best examples of vehicle procurement corruption and obvious. When the solders in Iraq and Afghanistan needed some vehicles that could take more punishment than a soft skin truck or Humvee. The people at AMC drug their feet fro years. They knew about this problem back in Panama,Bosnia,Somalia, Desert Storm, Desert Shield, OIF, OAF,I would say for over twenty years. Some looser Generals and Some Bozo contractors thought they would stall buying vehicles for as long as possible to make funding go their way. To buy Strikers. Another looser vehicle. C130 a vehicle that is nimble enough to fit on a C130, but gets stuck and falls over. And can’t take a hit. But you can feel good that it’s “Deplorable”. I mean “Deploy able”. Also with every Humvee that got whacked! You guessed it. “Replacements”. Who think like this? AMC and your friendly VENDORS!
General Motors, General Defense Land Systems,
British Aerospace & Eng., These and other WAR mongers take great pride in supplying only the best to our best. Making sure that they sell as many $2000.00 radiators and parts to their vehicles as possible. Not thinking for once that a easy protective plate or shield could save the vehicle or occupants a lot of grief. So the makers of Humvee s played stupid for 20 years. “OH”, is their a problem”? AMC just stood around and watched. OH! and by the way.
AMC did and does their best to keep other designs and competition out of the process.
DARPA/ Pentagon, ONR/Navy, MCSYSCOM/USMC, Army Tank Command/TARDEC/TACOM, are a bunch of Poodles with a full bladder sitting on a block of ice. Special Operations Command in Florida is the only vehicle procuring office that I found that isn’t on their knees. The rest, “some ones girlfriend”. Not to mention while the solders are risking everything getting shot and burned and squished and drowned and broken
in their fantastically designed mounts. The people back home in Procurement are giving awards, throwing party s, looking for a opportunity to parlay and civil servant job into a nice opportunity with a Vendor they deal with. Or a General is preparing his retirement.
Better vehicles exist. Better designs exist.
Get rid of the ” I don’t want to risk my retirement check people”. Get some people in procurement that have a higher standard and love the solders, not have contempt for them. They will argue the last point. But the truth is almost 25,000 people have received neck and back injuries or worse from our own vehicles. From poor design or lack of protection. Case made. TACOM you SUCK! ONR and MARCORSYSCOM you too! Leaving our solders out there with HUMVEE S. Nice work. Freaking poodles!

Right on Steve Militor! You pretty much hit the nail on the head!

To use an old worn out quote; Ike warned about the military industrial complex, and you just described why he warned us about it.

I fear the US could go the way of the French in WWII with huge expensive defensive structures that absolutely did nothing to protect their nation. We aren’t at that paragriim now; but it doesn’t take long in this field to become yesterday’s smoking hulk of a loser on the battle front.

One major problem with procurement. The defense contractors are bigger and more powerful than the
Dept. of State and The Joint Chiefs and the Pentagon put together. They have unlimited funding. They bet everything on their systems. They pay off or kill anyone who gets in their way.
They plan years in advance for a move. Paving their way with women, cash, property, jobs, some
weaselly advantage. You know what the funny thing is? The rest off the World is not as good at war stuff like we are. We are a war machine. Are whole economy and diplomacy has converted to war. Like the Japanese in ww11. Or the Romans. Their economy is based on getting. Rather than making. The Chinese are worried now.
Not that we are going to invalid. They can buy their oil. We are running out of money and credit. The bankers in Britain offered us money at 4%. The Chinese at 2%. So we can keep going and destroy our selves. But they need to trade with us for a while till they catch up in technology. They can’t fight anybody now. Too weak electronically. But remember! The Germans had everything they needed to win the war. But they had a unjust cause. OH! and were doing some stupid things tactically. And economically. Like us. We have a bunch of weapons that are expensive and time consuming to produce and transport. We need some engineers and procurement people like Henry Ford. He was a pretty bright guy. He had the privilege of making things for the German Army and the USA Army at the same time. Henry had Edsel run a half track plant in Belgium for the Nazis. Paid Hitler $55,000 a month. He borrowed a rear drive design from Carden Loyd. Put in on the back of a 3 ton truck. Plus using All types of slave labor. Some paid, some not. All the time telling the World, he is anti war. He even had a signed photo of him and Hitler in his office during ww11. He later took it down.
Henry also stole the Jeep idea from Bantam. Made a ton of money off it. Oh and IBM kept their Poland office open during the war. So they could sell punch card machines to the camp people. To see how much more work needs to be done for the final solution. Not to mention Phillip Morris and a hundred other American companies selling stuff to the German civilians.
And American Banks loaning money to the Germans.
But the best one of all I know about.
Mr. Armand Hammer aka Mr. deal swinger. Loaned the Russians $150,000,000.00 mil. During the Vietnam war. To build the World’s largest truck
factory in Tartarstan Rus. So they can send the trucks to North Vietnam and China to fight us.
The CIA later had a agent burn their engine factory down. I guess they ticked off someone.
Now Cummings sells engines to them. Buy the way.. AM General. Famous American supplier of the Humvee. OH! they went to China for a trade show. Forgot to bring their Humvee back. Hey Fred, I thought you had the Humvee. Nope! OooPs! Now the Chicoms have a better Humvee than ours. And they export them too! Theirs has a Cummings engine like a Dodge pick up. Ours has a piece of junk v8 that isn’t even worth rebuilding. I forgot one thing. British Aerospace and Engineering. Owned by the Bank of England, and The Queen. Owns almost every vehicle the uses except the M1 and the Oshkosh’s
and the Freightlinners. The Freightlinners, Mercedes Benz owns them. BAE just bought Humvee and FMTV and would like to buy what it doesn’t own from GDLS. In short, our procurement system
is a joint effort between the State Dept. and
the Pentagon to get our friends to fight with us if we make them some money. Because they won’t otherwise do it for free. You would not be leave the stuff we throw at our friends to get them to help. M1. Tank factory/Egypt.
Turkey. M113 and Humvee factory. More than half our weapons come from Israel and Germany. Or some branch of BAE. Our Navy Vessels too. Harrier etc. It is mind boggling. Basically. It will be Japan, Singapore, S. Korea, Thailand,
Taiwan, and a few others in the Asian area against China with our help. Most of Europe, less France, against the bear. We are feeding the machine for the next war. It’s what we do.
Israel is helping quite a bit. They will most likely get a big office in the Pentagon too.
Like Saudi Arabia. And offices at main air bases. Yeah! Saudi Arabia is the other office in the pentagon. Good customers too. But they send a bunch of our oil money too our enemies.
Watch out House of Saudi. Were gonna get mad someday! And yell at you. And write a big check. And yell some more. Insanity!

The procurement system is a disaster in terms of being response in a timely manner, and in providing what is really needed.

As it stands, two years is a benchmark for getting paper and funding in the mill. Next, the actual contracting/bid/selection process can take several more years.

If the need is really vital, there are ways to get things done. Unfortunately, the contracting side of the process fights the use of these methods tooth and nail.

I watched the process work under “peacetime rules” many times during the various debacles that have occurred since the late 1980’s.

Even though there was funding for “critical mission support” during these times, the dropdown to the systems program management was almost non existent.

(You can’t respond if you don’t have the funds to lay in the needed resources before hand.

Steve Militor:
“One major problem with procurement. The defense contractors are bigger and more powerful than the
Dept. of State and The Joint Chiefs and the Pentagon put together. They have unlimited funding. They bet everything on their systems. They pay off or kill anyone who gets in their way.”

whoa. whoa, WHOA. KILL? Lockheed will KILL PEOPLE who try to hold up their contracts? Boeing will KILL PEOPLE?

Jesus, killing people would probably IMPROVE the process–do you really think that Boeing wouldn’t have got the tanker contract back in 1996 if DEATH were on the line?

All this stalling and red tape serves a grand purpose. It gives certain large contractors time to gear up for what is next. Like Boeing and Lockheed and Grumman to think about building trucks. When they never have before. Then get partners who do. Then they all pimp their senators and Congress people for support. Promising taxes and jobs to their States. Screw the solders. What do they know? As long as it’s built in Texas. Or some other key State like Mich.
Colt builds pure crap. HK of the USA offered superior rifles at better prices and was turned down. Nice example.
George Bush got a truck contract to his buddies in Seally Texas. They never built a truck before. No biggie. Truck had nothing but problems. No concern. That was George’s friend’s truck company. ” Just need a little support, yaull”. It is not about political support. We will buy trucks, jeeps and rifles.
It should be based on fair competition. And what is best for the solders. And taxpayer. Not the Senators. Is everyone a pimp in procurement? And the Striker the big whore? Seems like it. What are the solders? Misguided drones? Texas is doing great! The rest of the country is broke. Did Texas ever become a State? Not sure. Can someone help on that?

Militor wrong: “BAE just bought Humvee”

BAE only builds armor kits and power management kits for HMMWVs. AM General builds Hummers. BAE and Navistar are teamed together on the JLTV. AM General is partnered with someone else.

Militor wrong:“Queen owns BAE”

http://www.corporatewatch.org.uk/?lid=183#significant%20shareholders

Don’t see anyone who owns more than 6% of BAE and it ain’t the queen or a Bank. Its Franklin Resources…a U.S. company.

Militor wrong:“One of the best examples of vehicle procurement corruption and obvious. When the solders in Iraq and Afghanistan needed some vehicles that could take more punishment than a soft skin truck or Humvee. The people at AMC drug their feet fro years. They knew about this problem back in Panama,Bosnia,Somalia, Desert Storm, Desert Shield, OIF, OAF,I would say for over twenty years.“
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Knew about WHAT problem. The HMMWV has been one of the most successful vehicles the Army ever produced…by an American company. The JLTV will be equally successful and will have more armor. There was never a problem with Hummers being hit until OIF/OEF. We responded with uparmored HMMWV and MRAP. Compared to what allied nations are driving in Iraq/Afghanistan we do more than enough to protect our troops.

Where is the data on the claimed 25K neck and back injuries?
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Militor irrelevant: “M1 tanks built in Egypt“
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So what. An allied country that lets us use the Suez canal and buys are equipment:

http://​www​.globalsecurity​.org/​m​i​l​i​t​a​r​y​/​w​o​r​l​d​/​e​g​y​p​t​/​m​1​a​1​.​htm
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Militor claimed fact: George Bush got a truck contract to his buddies in Seally Texas.
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Guess you are talking about this, from page 20 of a LTCs study ADVOCATING international and other non-traditional competition:

“In 1997 DoD was considering a second production source for the Family of Medium Tactical Vehicles(FMTV). The FMTV is a truck produced by Stewart and Stevenson in Sealy, Texas. Certain Texas legislators took great interest in the rationale for dual sourcing. Ultimately, after much dialogue the congressional arguments for sole source economies of scale and learning curve silenced the proponents of competition, DoD, Oshkosh and AM General. As the FMTV example shows, the government can demonstrate anti-competitive behavior.“
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Wait, this was 1997 when George Bush was not even President. Congressional folks quashed the competition for other producers…kind of like Boeing got its Washington and Kansas reps involved.

Sound familiar. Sounds to me like the biggest problem with our procurement system is that nearly EVERY contract gets protested now. In addition, politicians are getting more bold about using their power to see that the “appropriate” company wins.

Quit being an alarmist Militor. I bet you think 9/11 was a Jewish conspiracy, too.

BAE in the USA, Your right. No one knows who owns it. But like GE it has over 18 divisions in the USA alone. BAE in the USA is owned by “Investors”.
Lawyers, Lobbyists, Investment bankers, what ever.
BAE in the UK has a big steak in it.
BAE owns Humvee/AKA AMG plant South Bend, IND.
They also own the FMTV line. Seally Texas. Guess who held up the armoring of the Humvee. Some dweebs at Humvee that wanted to charge other suppliers a royalty to build the doors. The people at Humvee build a nice truck. Tell me they didn’t know about some possible hardening concerns until OIF. Baloney.
The morons at Humvee thought that overloading the Humvee with a few more tons of equipment and armor would not create some new problems.
Tires blowing out, brake fading, ROLLOVERS!
Great vehicle. Great designing. If it can’t take the weight? Say so. Don’t test it on the solders. Simple.
25,000. Injuries that are non combat related. Accidents involving Vehicle related
mishaps. GAO report. Broken necks etc. Arms..
The FMTV. It was a old Austrian design. They have a new one now. It took years to pull this off. Instead of using axles and other main drive components made in the USA. They made sure that these would all be unique an only available from Stewart & Stevenson. When the topic of a competitor or second source came up. That was a big joke. How do you make a Chevy cheaper than a Chevy? When they got past this little bump in the road. The DOD ordered TENS of
thousands of them. But never indicated this to the suitor./Competition until after the big order. To say that BRITISH AEROSPACE AND ENGINEERING in the USA is not related to BAE in the UK is simple minded. Like Toyota USA is owned by Americans. BAE in the UK owns most of the stock in various accounts. 6%. You got to be joking. Any corporation that has any control of any part of their business. Needs over twenty percent to be able to maintain any control at all. Even if it’s divided.
Don’t get me wrong. I like war. I like Israel too. If you say you like the Striker?
We have absolutely nothing in common. That vehicle represents everything wrong with procurement. That vehicle is a totally screwed up design. AND THE C130 policy.
Remember when Egypt stormed into Israel.
Or when Turkey held up a whole Division on the way to Desert Storm. I also like BAE. They do allot of good. Build some good stuff. They come up with huge amounts of cash to systematically buy everything we use from Helmets to Aircraft Carriers. Not much left that they don’t own. Vehicle wise. 6%. I laugh!
OH! and the first time a Humvee got whacked was in OIF. Your funny. Oh the Humvee is like a little APC. It’s just marvelous. Fiberglass hood. Aluminum doors. Aluminum floors. It’s just a awesome vehicle to drive around IRAQ.
Does BAE build wheelchairs too?
Or make Kevlar limbs. Alarmist. No just a advocate for the solders. I read more than you.
I am sure of that. I am current. Wish you were. By the way. Don’t hold your BAE JLTV breath. By the time that program gets a green light. No time soon. Technology will be a little ahead of the static designs offered.
Lots of time and money wasted. All the time Humvees are grinding down in IRAQ. And more on the way. The prices for the new Humvee replacements Will be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars each. Like the MRAPS. Dinosaurs. Not even worth bringing back to the USA to rebuild. And not RPG proof. JLTVs. Just spray them with a 14.5mm or 50ap. Instant Swiss cheese. Or even a 50BMG sniper rifle. I could tell you 20 different ways to dust a JLTV.
The DOD asked for two weapons systems on the roof. They got one. Your guys at BAE just could not make that happen. Among other trade offs.
My prediction. JLTV will be abbreviated.
The JLTV teams got worked. Sorry BAE dude.

I agree U.S. needs a “parallel” acquisition system to get weapons to the battlefield much more nimbly than does the current system. During the process care must be taken to ensure that during the “rush to buy” costly mistakes are not made. Mistakes include buying the wrong stuff or overpriced items. It happens. When vendors get wind of procurement going on they line up to dupe the engineers logisticians and buyers. A risk of price escalation occurs in the name of Government mandated configuration control. This can happen when you want to go back and buy many more of the same item. Configuration control is need to allow ease of finding replacement parts, standardize repair manuals, and documenting any improvements or downgrades made to the weapon or system. Cost and completion must be the drivers. If the cost is out of range you run out of money. Competition allows DoD civil servants the leverage to control costs and other quality issues.

What it takes in Honest hard working motivated civil servants to make it happen. Remember (we) DoD Civil servants do care about the Warfighter because some of us have been there out in the trenches. We are dedicated and understand the mission. The “easy button” can be pushed but care and control must be taken. Credit and blame must be given. Reward and punishment must be dealt. Managers must manage lead without politics. Sounds impossible and sometimes it is. I do know when someone is good at this process they are in short supply. v/r

If you had a parallel procurement system. Lockheed
would send their drone over there to infiltrate
all sectors of the operation from the front desk to the people at TRADOC who write policy. Even if they have to loose money on it. This allows them to collect information, steer contracts, have prior warning about upcoming bids. You say Lockheed would never do such a thing. They have and do. The Army had to send around a special letter reminding them not to do so. “OK Lockheed
people, stop doing that”. Don’t make me say it in bold type! ” I mean it”!
Lockheed you still suck at designing trucks.
Going to Brittan to buy a obsolete truck company and trying to sell some to the USMC shows you and MARCORSYSCOM both suck. And if you have to steal ideas? Shows how bad you suck!
Better designs are on the way. Nice job trying to keep them out. JLTV is just not getting the job done. With all of your influence and and financial might. You still cant invent or design anything good to drive. Along with the rest of the finalist in the JLTV contest. Now the people at TACOM say,” You need a secret clearance to submit your own design.” Or be able to build 30 or 60 in a few days upon a award. I wonder where those requirements came from? If a individual does submit a design like, Eugene Stoner. M16 fame. They just crap all over you and give it to their friends. In this case, Colt. “I know the Stoner family.“
Along with the Jeep and a slew of other inventions. THE ARMY JUST LIKES TO STEAL STUFF!
THEY are difficult to deal with. And are responsible for running many companies into the ground. Giving them (the less favored contractors) just enough work to bleed them dry.
Weakening them enough to make them less viable.
This is done on purpose. Like in ww2. GM and others prompted the war production dept. to buy complete competitors and crate them up to sell them to Russia. Or buy in limited numbers, and
fix the numbers to not let them make any money.
This stuff still goes on. Except the few that are left are pouring huge amounts of money at
the politicians. And just having to recap this money in another contract down the road. The taxpayers get screwed. The solders get something that could not compete by it’s own merit. Like the Striker. Or Sgt. York. And some people like Lockheed get something given to them. Like FTTS. A contract to build one truck.
What a rip off. If you had the World’s most advanced off road racing team build a truck.
It would, maybe be $300k. Lockheed-25 times that. And it still sucked. A heavy clunker. With a ton of batteries in it. No loading space
to mention. It could have been done on paper or in miniature for a few thousand! All the time the solders need stuff. Make them wait, Right!
Most of all some decent vehicles. Stop spanking your monkeys and get serious TACOM. Who do you work for? The solders or someone else? TACOM YOU ARE THE PROBLEM!

I guess I am done here. Getting censored!
The Army does not want to hear my comments.

Militor: it’s okay, we’ll hold the torch. UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this IMPORTANT information is ENCOURAGED!

Militor, dude, AM General is not owned by BAE, its a competitor:

http://​www​.answers​.com/​t​o​p​i​c​/​a​m​-​g​e​n​e​ral

Why would AM General be teamed with General Dynamics Land Systems, and BAE be teamed with Navistar for the Joint Light Tactical Vehicle if AM General was owned by BAE. Think about it.

HMMWV rollovers? Give me a break when compared to MRAP and Stryker rollovers. Ever driven in a M-151 Jeep and NOT been worried about rollovers?

Ever driven in a Canadian G-wagon, VW SUV, or Brit Land Rover in Afghanistan? I haven’t either but bet our troops would rather be in an armored HMMWV. There are other threats out there that require a lower profile to avoid being targeted. Plus its kind of a pain to take out the whole power grid anytime you go downtown in a MRAP and hit all the power lines.

Militor said: “To say that BRITISH AEROSPACE AND ENGINEERING in the USA is not related to BAE in the UK is simple minded. Like Toyota USA is owned by Americans. BAE in the UK owns most of the stock in various accounts. 6%. You got to be joking. Any corporation that has any control of any part of their business. Needs over twenty percent to be able to maintain any control at all. Even if it’s divided.“
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Never said they weren’t related, But dude, open the corporatewatch link I provided you earlier. As of 2002 (not that current):

“BAE SYSTEMS divides its different interests into business groups, each of which is overseen by one of three COOs (Chief of Operations). Only three companies hold over 3% of the shares issued by BAE SYSTEMS; Franklin Resources Inc (6.2%), Brandes Investment Partners, LP (4.0%), and CGNU plc (3.2%).”

Does Toyota of America not provide good jobs…for Americans. Believe me I used to dislike the French just like everyone else…before Sarkozy. But Michelin has a truck tire factory near us and builds tires in South Carolina. BMW is there too. Hyundai is near Montomery and Kia is building just across the border of AL and Georgia. Mercedes builds small SUVs in AL and Honda builds motors here and cars in Ohio with Nissan nearby in Tennessee.

Although my wife is half German, I’m not too crazy about that country these days. But then I saw TheissenKrupp invest $4 billion near Mobile for a steel plant to process steel from Brazil. I know a U.S. executive who works for Bergpipe, a German company providing U.S. jobs in Panama City, FL and soon near Mobile to support are oil drilling businesses.

What difference does it make if its foreign-owned if it provides good jobs? Its a global market and there are few truly exclusive U.S. companies these days.

Militor: “This is done on purpose. Like in ww2. GM and others prompted the war production dept. to buy complete competitors and crate them up to sell them to Russia. “
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For a guy who reads a lot, you have a poor understanding that helping Russia with arms before we entered Europe at Normandy is the primary reason the allies were successful.

No Russia armed by the U.S?.…probable German WWII victory.

Militor said:“Like the MRAPS. Dinosaurs. Not even worth bringing back to the USA to rebuild. And not RPG proof. JLTVs. Just spray them with a 14.5mm or 50ap. Instant Swiss cheese. Or even a 50BMG sniper rifle. I could tell you 20 different ways to dust a JLTV.“
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You badmouth the Stryker but its slat armor is actually quite effective against RPGs and it withstands .50 cal.

So what do you propose instead of HMMWV or JLTV. Something bigger than an MRAP with even more armor. Do your realize how expensive and logistically non-supportable it would be to have every Soldier driving around in a full-up APC…which still does not provide total protection. Even an M1 can be killed.

We spend $10 billion a month to finance OIF logistics and operations…I can only imagine the cost with your Army. That of course assumes you can actually deploy it in time to have a war before the enemy’s fait accompli.

The future is lighter active protection to stop your RPGs and close range attacks as well as longer range missile attacks. Even JLTV may have active protection.

Yes Cole I do read allot and I am aware of who owns BAE and Humvee not AMG.
A armored Humvee is a step up. But they do roll over. The doors jam. And a bunch of other problems. The Striker is a piece of crap. It is a giant Public relations nightmare. Slat Armour.
Why not just allow for the eleven foot wide dimensions from the factory and put together some real armor. Give up the C130 concept. I have driven in all the vehicles mentioned. They were built narrow for a reason. Chinook and osprey etc.transportation. They roll over too.
So do Jeeps. High center of gravity for ground clearance and stiff suspensions. But when you add radios.Spare fuel. A gun turret and ammo. Steel doors and floors. BP glass and more gear.
You have a potential problem. Better than a unarmored V. But dangerous.
The point I am trying to make is: Look at the vehicles available to fight the Germans.
Armored cars. Light and heavy tanks. Half tracks. Stag hounds, Armored self propelled guns. Armored Scout cars. Quad 50 trucks and
AA mounts armored. And modifications that changed the battle field forever. AND GUN TRUCKS! Look at the fleet now. ALL SOFT SKINS!
The 113s are getting parked. Cadillac Gage units are in short supply. MRAPS suck. Some of those MRAPS are pushing 600k each.
OK my point. Better ideas and designs exsist.
And have been used before. The Army is hardheaded. Gun trucks were used in Vietnam.
They had to be improvised again. No kits were even available. Very little convoy protection was available early on. The Generals and Joint Chiefs wanted to get rid of the Abrams Tanks Too! Just Strikers. Incredible. Replace armored brigades with Striker Brigades. Shinsecki Plan.
2002 or around that time. Insanity. Some 72 hour 911 anywhere on the planet response time some General pull out of his rear. Also Russian made ATGMs/ Coronets are reeking havoc with our and Israel’s armor. 14“inches plus of penetration. Can you protect yourself? In any vehicle. Not really. Armor has the disadvantage currently. Even if the penetration doesn’t go through, the guys inside bake from the thermal heat. Over 200 in seconds. You just need more anti RPG teams and better deployment of special vehicles. People beg TACOM to consider their designs. They won’t give anyone the time of day.
Unless your Lockheed or Boeing or some Mega Contractor. As a matter of fact. They will do their best to keep you out of the process. Just to leave the available dollars for their favored few. You can dream all you want about
how nice it is to have the UK/BAE in your backyard. At some point we dropped the ball.
I wish Chevy, Ford, and Dodge were building the best vehicles in this country. But instead of investing all the money they made in the 80’s
selling some of the World’s most popular cars.
Oldsmobile was one. And Pontiac and Buick.
They are going broke now. Or Gone. GM took all it’s Oldsmobile profit. And went to Sweden.
Bought Saab. Went over to Italy and lost a ton of money with Fiat. Now they are selling off all of their divisions to shed pension burdens.
So the workforce that once was a powerhouse is now struggling. So one assembly person has to support two people retired. Won’t last long.
If GM took all that profit? Spent it retooling.
You would be working at and driving a efficient GM vehicle. Instead of watching the Government bail GM out. And Toyota burying them. If you like Korean and German Factories in your backyard? Great. I like American stuff. I like Americans. I like America. Russia attacked Poland and murdered 1/4 of the people there.
Executed it’s pow’s. Invaded Eastern Europe.
Invaded Finland. Exported Communism and Marxist thinking around the World. Started the Korean War. Stole Siberia and Manchuria from the Chinese. Started at least 80 African wars. Shut of the Gas pipeline in the middle of winter to the Ukraine. Killed every Christian and Jew they could find after 1917. Destroyed their synagogues and churches. Imprisoned un told number of people. Out lawed God. And is only second to Bulgaria in abortions. You should go live there. And take your KIA too. USA! I drive Fords. I want our solders to have the best. I am working on it. I will change procurement. And our solders will be protected and be lethal. Just tell TACOM to stop being a little bitch for their beloved ed contractors.
And put the solders first. For once.

Militor, it’s considered bad form to announce your departure and then NOT LEAVE…

Militor, this company owns 70% of AMG:

http://​www​.macandrewsandforbes​.com/​f​a​m​i​l​y​_​o​f​_​c​o​m​p​a​n​i​es/

This is the AMG website, reachable by clicking on the AMG icon of the link above:

http://​www​.amgeneral​.com/

HMMWV armored doors get stuck? Perhaps this and BAE armor and HMMWV power management are why you thing BAE owns AMG…from DefenseIndustryDaily​.com:

“April 29/08: BAE Systems announces a $25 million order for 2,354 Vehicle Emergency Escape (VEE) window kits and 2,000 spare window panels to the U.S. Army’s Tank-Automotive and Armaments Command (TACOM), for use on up-armored M1151 High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicles (HMMWV).

The latest order is projected to start the pipeline of follow-on orders to fit the thousands of M1151 vehicles in combat. VEE windows will be delivered to the Army from June 2008 until the end of 2008.”

A HMMWV will not fit in a 6′ wide V-22, which is why the Marines are specially developing a skinny tall jeep-like vehicle that probably will rollover. In addition, a V-22 would not be able to carry an up-armored HMMWV due to its weight while a Chinook can carry it externally.

As for Stryker, if you built armor out to 11′ wide it would weigh as much or more than a Bradley. A Stryker will not fit inside nor can it be carried by either a V-22 or Chinook due to its weight. You keep printing volumes of untrue statements.

We (and the Russians) did not win WWII due to the quality of our armored vehicles…it was their sheer numbers. Many Americans needlessly died due to poor WWII armor and gas-powered catch-on-fire tanks, etc. vs. today’s diesel-like JP8.
————————————-
Militor wrong: “The Generals and Joint Chiefs wanted to get rid of the Abrams Tanks Too! Just Strikers. Incredible. Replace armored brigades with Striker Brigades. Shinsecki Plan.“
—————————————-

Geez, there was never a plan to have an all-Stryker BCT Army. At one point, Gen Shinseki may have wanted an all FCS Army in place of heavy BCTs but that will no longer occur…15 FCS BCTs only, with I believe 7 Styker BCTs, and the rest heavy (Abrams/Bradley) and Infantry BCTs in Light, Airborne, and Air Assault Divisions.

OK, 1 more time. The striker started out as a MOWAG from Switzerland and Germany. GLDS bought the design. Gave it to GM Canada to build. They narrowed it. Changed engines a couple of times.
Put on smaller tires. Lightened the thing quite a bit. Changed almost everything about it. Now they want to put a big cannon on it. It was made to fit on a C130. It barely fits. The suspension leaks. It catches fire. tips over. Get flats easily. Gets stuck in the mud and sand easily.
Wont drive in the snow well. Almost sinks. Cramped and noisy inside. Is not RPG proof.
Poor visibility. Expensive. Can not deploy in 15
minutes from a C130. Slat armor is a joke.
With radios and guns your looking at over 1,5 mil per unit. They burn all the time. But they don’t like to talk about em. Burning that is.
Make sure you have a M113 around to pull em out.
Just to save you the “call”.
By the way. They just christened another Striker Brigade. Washington/Lewis I believe.
Naw! Shinseki wanted a less intimidating force for police work and small wars. He had allot of support for this treasonous thinking. By the way, one more thing for you to muse about Cole.
The M1 tanks. They will rebuild a few. But plans are in the works to go piston engines.
Possibly a Leopard (Ger.) engine. Canada already uses Leopards. And buying more new ones.
No other army in the world entertained the thought of going lighter. One of the Generals that promoted this “lighter ” concept. Went to work for GDLS. Before a year was even up. The Striker is a carry over from that stupid thinking. And the C130 thinking. Also stupid.
The Russians were laughing their asses off when they heard this. What the Chinese and Russians lack in air power. They strive to make up with AA and Anti armor. The AA is going with hard wire stuff. The Anti armor. Multi-thermal warheads. 2 or three in one penetration. And possibly tow the vehicle off to use it for a special mission or to study it. Or bobby trap it for a unsuspecting recovery team to have it blow up when they move it.
See you guys on the next subject. Out. M.

a) Stryker not striker

b) C-17s hold more Strykers and FCS manned ground vehicles, and deliver more at once

c) 105mm gun is only on one version. Cramped? The Infantry carrier transports more infantry than the Bradley. It’s mobility is fine for roads and urban areas where many future conflicts are likely to occur. Agree Stryker has poor offroad mobility but that’s why the FCS manned ground vehicle ahd heavy BCT are tracked.

d) Slat armor is very effective against single warhead RPG-7…the primary threat. Active protection systems of the future will handle duel warhead and top attack.

e) Bet that Strykers cost more than $1.5 million. Strykers stop .50 cal unlike the ancient M113 you appear to like. Talk about a cramped vehicle!

f) You appear to know almost nothing about Future Combat Systems and its manned ground vehicles which are tracked, thus ending one of your arguments, and armored as well as a Bradley but with more all around protection, ending your remaining argument. It does this while getting 3 mpg vs. an M1 tanks 2 gallons per mile…the reason they may re-engine the Abrams. An armored division uses well over one million gallons of fuel a day. The troops in less armored convoy vehicles are the ones targeted by threat forces when heavy armor requires lots of fuel every few hours. If you expect every other vehicle to carry heavy armor the fuel bill goes up…risking lives and our national pocketbook.

g) General Shinseki proposed Stryker as an interim system until FCS was fielded. Nothing treasonous there and its disgraceful that you would accuse an Army Chief of Staff of such.

h) FCS vehicles will be transported by C-17. Forget your fixation on the C-130. Read about the insertion of the 173rd Airborne Brigade into northern Iraq during OIF. It included a company of armor from Germany. It could have been a substantially stronger FCS force. FCS units could have been transported to southern Georgia, the Ukraine, or Poland to draw a symbolic line in the sand.

i) Russians laughing their asses off? The Russian Air Force lost 4 to 10 aircraft to Georgian air defenses. Think how much they would lose to Patriots and F-22s. Contemplate how F-35s and our bombers would plink Russian armor to pieces.

j) Dual warheads? Read about active protection systems that would slam inbound AA missiles and advanced RPGs before they ever hit our vehicles. Active protection is lighter than conventional armor to provide protection while not running up the fuel bill. But JLTV will be heavy…so yes, the Army is thinking about future threats. It may be hybrid-electric, though, so the Army is also thinking about future fuel bills and logistics to get fuel to the front.

The C-17s are only used for C-17 loads. C130s are used for C130 loads. The Striker was reduced in size for the C120. It was a C-17 load. Originally.
The Stryker with the 105mm tips badly. Read the reports on the Sheridan airborne tank. My friend was a driver in Ger. on one. They hated them. It would jar the occupants so bad they hated to fire it. You need a lot of weight to anchor a gun.
Slat Armour is wonderful. The temperature sure goes up quick when your fuel/oil goes up in flames when your slat Armour/ clear throat/ stops
the RPG-7. That is a export round. Check for the real RPG-8+ They have some real mean ones.
Strikers don’t stop 50ap. Or 14.5 ap. 44mm penetration.
FCS. The Strykers are part of it. And they are here to stay. Unfortunately. Quick Global response force. 72 hours. Mentioned that too.
A new M113. Not a old one. The new ones are bad ass. ATGM. CROWS. RE-Armor. Go anywhere fighter. Fast too. And C130 air portable. They made em longer too. More space!
I am not fixed on the C130. The Army Chiefs are. They have more of them than they have C17s. And both are expensive to buy and fuel.
The Russians owned the Georgians. Just a thought. The Russians like other Armies. Train on the job. Like on the Mongolian border. The first troops in Chechnya we rookies. Got owned.
They got serious and sent in their real teams.
With expectant results. The Russians don’t play
around. They had slat armor too. Their BTRs are
harder than our Strykers. The lost 2000 apcs. plus another 200 tanks. They would be assaulted
by over 15 RPGs at once on one vehicle. The op force would carry three loaded RPGs to eliminate reloading. The vehicles would explode from the heat generated with internal explosions. And hull damage. RPGs rule fact!
Most exported RPG7s are HE. Not AP. The new ones do a much better job. Coronets own the battlefield now.
We don’t have Patriots in Georgia, Yet!
No one has comparable skills and stick time as a U.S. pilot. No one. Or equipment. We own the air. But the Russians have some new hard wire AA. It does not jam easily.
The Israelis have the Trophy. We don’t. Raytheon has the contract for it. still a few years off. USA wont pay Israel to build it. Too cheap.
Yes triple warheads. Same round. Back to back. NOTHING STOPS IT! IT GOES THROUGH FOUR FEET OF REINFORCED CONCRETE. @ 600 meters. Even if your vehicle survived? You would not! It is a giant hammer. Ding dong! It melts through anything too. Lingers. Goes over the Horizon.
Picks it’s target. Comes in on the side, top, rear, front, take your pick. You’ll never see it coming. The Russians decided to change policy. Instead of fighting other superior tanks with tanks. They use missiles. They use their tanks for breakthroughs. Missiles are cheaper. And they are brilliant at designing them. No vehicle on the planet can survive a Coronet hit! Not even the front of a Mirkava. The thickest tank on the planet. Or a M60. 15 of em found out the hard way in Lebanon.
I am a JLTV expert. They suck. All of em.
If you just said build some bad ass stuff. And the Army TACOM didn’t try to micro manage every aspect of the requirements. You might be surprised what people would come up with. The requirements keep changing. But the Army is stuck on stupid. And the vehicles they get are money makers. For the Vendors. Not the best technology available. Better designs exist. The Army won’t even consider them. They only deal with the top 100. And the Top 100 aren’t real creative or inventive. Very few people can create or invent a new system. When they approach the Army with their new design? They get worked and sent away! We need someone at the design level that can tell a inventor. This is what we need. If you have something close? We want to see it asap! We will pay you for your invention. Everyone should help us fight our wars. Everyone has something to contribute.
It is our right! And duty to our country to do so. THE USA is all about innovation. The Army is all about corruption and stealing ideas.
Just let the average Joe have a shot at it. AND DON“T TRY TO RIP HIM?HER OFF! MAKE it a point of pride and national interest to protect our troops. Not a exclusive club for old school golfing corporate types. LET THE LITTLE guys try. See what we have. American ingenuity can solve any mechanical problem. TACOM you need to change your policies! OUR FLEET sucks and so do you!

Hey BAE defender guy. Look on your own web page suggestion. BAE is all over the World. But in the USA. Yes Franklin owns the 6%. But read further.
Exostar. Is a front company for Lockheed, Boeing and Raytheon. They all own 25%. But it is just a marketing branch. But all the Manufacturing is Foreign owned. It is just a giant conglomerate that works on and off shore to sell as much war materiel to who ever they can. Two of the three divisions are completely British owned. The 6% in the USA is a Joke. It is a company to tie the USA and UK together to fight wars and make money. But with out a doubt
more UK than US. Also these companies split up further to hide ownership. Lesser companies all over the World that sell individual stocks at each branch. And each country. To say Franklin
owns 6%, I laugh. They wont shown their individual investors. It’s the Queen of England. British Banks, Chinese, South Africans, Swedes, Germans, Oh, and the USA. IT is a world wide war profiting company. Period!
I checked. They don’t make wheelchairs.BAE-burn in hell! OUT!

Steve Militor, do us all a a favor and create your own blog so we don’t have to experience any more of your banality.

Drones.
Look at what the big 100 have done to this country. They broke the camel’s back.
Go work at KIA now! FACT: The WAR ran this country out of money. The Contractors ran the war into the ground. Fact! The Procurement people at DOD are the 100’s stooges. FACT!: More solders were killed necessarily due to bad vehicle deployment than was necessary. The whole war was a fiasco. And goobers like you just watched it go into the ground. Ran up fuel prices. The consequences are that solders returning from Iraq. 1. may not have a job. 2. A 401k. 3. A home.4. A vehicle they can afford to drive. 5. Or be able to live where they want.
We could have just bought the oil and burned our own coal. 25,000 injuries later. over 5000 US dead. Over a million Iraqis killed. For oil.
Loosing your son is not banter. Today they announced 2 trillion in retirement funds were lost. You can bet some of that was from BAE.
The chickens have come home. Favor done. Good Day. Bad year for Americans.

Steve Militor,

By big 100 you mean the 100 US senators, right…

The war has not run the country out of money.

Contractors did not run the war into the ground.

Yes it was dumb to use the HMMWV a it was used but the US military was designed around winning wars not peace keeping.

The whole wars was not a fiasco. Although, the ‘surge’ SHOULD have happened in 2004…

The war on terror is NOT about oil.

“Or bobby trap it for a unsuspecting recovery team…”

Yeah, they open the back door and a girl named Bobbi jumps out, wearing bobby-socks.

“See you guys on the next subject. Out. M.”

Dude…either go or don’t, but STOP telling us that you’re leaving when you immediately come back.

Also, I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on HAARP, chemtrails, Morgellon’s Syndrome, autism, LSD-25, menthol cigarettes, remote viewing, and orgone energy.

BAE does not make the VEE window. There 45 million contract makes them 20 million is that a fair profit considering we are complaining of corporate greed. This was a no bid contract. Please someone look into this huge profit center

futher to the VEE contract there is prior art so patents will most likely be denied. it is a cozy relationship as usual and we the tax payers suffer. BAE rips us off when are we going to wake up? the day of the 200 dollar screw driver is still here

screwdrivers? don’t you mean power point slides? At the congressional hearing on FCS a comment was made by a congressman, “All we are getting is power point charts, Will be be dropping 11 tons of power points on the enemy?” That is a very telling state of affairs in the pentagon. Let’s buy needed hardware not billion dollar power point charts. The first course an acquistion officer gets is how to do power point charts and give fancy briefings. Take an inventory of them on each person’s computer and thier agency shared drives and you will see the factual evidence, the days of the 200 dollar screw driver have been replaced with the billion dollar slide show. When will the insanity of this end?

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