<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0" xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/" xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/" > <channel><title>Comments on: Cancel Marines’ EFV Already: Analysts</title> <atom:link href="http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/11/24/cancel-marines-efv-already-analysts/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/11/24/cancel-marines-efv-already-analysts/</link> <description>Online Defense and Acquisition Journal</description> <lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 16:43:36 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator> <item><title>By: Smith</title><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/11/24/cancel-marines-efv-already-analysts/#comment-23500</link> <dc:creator>Smith</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2010 17:52:35 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=2822#comment-23500</guid> <description>The Marines are the shock troops... Meaning the first one in when the enemy is at it&#039;s strongest. Going by air isn&#039;t the most reliable means of transportation. They&#039;d most likely be blown up if they&#039;d try to use air as the main route of transport. You have to set up your forces on land before you can get into the air, best way is to get on to the coastes. Best way on getting there is by sea. That&#039;s why they need tracks. </description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Marines are the shock troops… Meaning the first one in when the enemy is at it’s strongest. Going by air isn’t the most reliable means of transportation. They’d most likely be blown up if they’d try to use air as the main route of transport. You have to set up your forces on land before you can get into the air, best way is to get on to the coastes. Best way on getting there is by sea. That’s why they need tracks.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Junior Abbott</title><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/11/24/cancel-marines-efv-already-analysts/#comment-4351</link> <dc:creator>Junior Abbott</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 10:19:34 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=2822#comment-4351</guid> <description>Talk is cheap, but that is what america si all about,talk it out then act.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Talk is cheap, but that is what america si all about,talk it out then act.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: HillSeeker</title><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/11/24/cancel-marines-efv-already-analysts/#comment-4100</link> <dc:creator>HillSeeker</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:35:48 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=2822#comment-4100</guid> <description>I have worked on this project and the vehicle can work.  The problem is managment at the program office and other levels.  They seem to have their heads up their asses.  Plain and simple.  Clean house and finish the project with new managment. We, taxpayers, can&#039;t afford to cancel it, already neck deep in it.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have worked on this project and the vehicle can work.  The problem is managment at the program office and other levels.  They seem to have their heads up their asses.  Plain and simple.  Clean house and finish the project with new managment. We, taxpayers, can’t afford to cancel it, already neck deep in it.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Dj</title><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/11/24/cancel-marines-efv-already-analysts/#comment-4099</link> <dc:creator>Dj</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:03:15 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=2822#comment-4099</guid> <description>P.S....Use helicoptors as one commented ??? They get shot out of the sky just as easy...</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S.…Use helicoptors as one commented ??? They get shot out of the sky just as easy…</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Dj</title><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/11/24/cancel-marines-efv-already-analysts/#comment-4098</link> <dc:creator>Dj</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:52:24 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=2822#comment-4098</guid> <description>Just one comment because it&#039;s evident the author is bias and doesn&#039;t have the facts. I for one, (being close to the program), can state that this program hasn&#039;t been in 20 years of development. Cut that time almost in half. The armor is not thin. The technology in this vehicle allows this 35 ton tank to transfer from water mode of 25+ knots to land mode in  seconds, with the capability of driving on land as fast as the M1 Abrams tank.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just one comment because it’s evident the author is bias and doesn’t have the facts. I for one, (being close to the program), can state that this program hasn’t been in 20 years of development. Cut that time almost in half. The armor is not thin. The technology in this vehicle allows this 35 ton tank to transfer from water mode of 25+ knots to land mode in  seconds, with the capability of driving on land as fast as the M1 Abrams tank.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: HENRY JOHNSON</title><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/11/24/cancel-marines-efv-already-analysts/#comment-4006</link> <dc:creator>HENRY JOHNSON</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 18:36:43 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=2822#comment-4006</guid> <description>TWM TECHNOLOGY LLCNEWS BULLETIN:Through nonlinear dynamics and the science of Quantum Mechanics, we have developed a new motor that runs on common lead acid batteries the batteries will run several years before needing replacement. It has enough torque to power an army tank, and unmanned aircraft that could stay on station for several months. Helicopter that stays aloft until crew fatigue. A semi truck could run several years before replacing the batteries. A car, power; hand tools, heat pump to heat and cool a home, office buildings and other commercial and industrial uses. Installed in a laptop or any hand held device, will run years without recharging. Ships, Submarines, Aircraft Carriers that can cruse several years without changing batteries. This motor runs by teasing the 2 – permanent magnets in 3 – rotors, fixed to the shaft between two stator’s containing 5 – electro magnets. It’s a timing accomplishment as the permanent magnet comes near the electro magnets, we change the polarity, repelling the permanent magnet and attracting the next. With this we generate tremendous torque and RPM&#039;S (10,000) The electro magnets have a secondary windings, whose electrons are excited by the changing polarity, which recharges the batteries and significant other uses(1,000+ volts). This motor emits NO, Co2, and does not burn oil or gasoline. This solves the oil and gasoline crisis, eliminates refueling logistics and eliminates greenhouse gases. This motor &quot;CHANGES EVERYTHING&quot; and is a “Nobel Prize” type development. This is a great development for our country. Young men in our area developed it. We have several working pro to types, soon will have working model that will power a US Army Tank. We would welcome the chance to show this to you.Sincerely Henry Johnson, Agent TWM Technology LLC 3490 E N Union rd. Bay City, MI 48706, 989 684 7050</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TWM TECHNOLOGY LLC</p><p>NEWS BULLETIN:</p><p>Through nonlinear dynamics and the science of Quantum Mechanics, we have developed a new motor that runs on common lead acid batteries the batteries will run several years before needing replacement.<br /> It has enough torque to power an army tank, and unmanned aircraft that could stay on station for several months. Helicopter that stays aloft until crew fatigue. A semi truck could run several years before replacing the batteries. A car, power; hand tools, heat pump to heat and cool a home, office buildings and other commercial and industrial uses. Installed in a laptop or any hand held device, will run years without recharging. Ships, Submarines, Aircraft Carriers that can cruse several years without changing batteries.<br /> This motor runs by teasing the 2 – permanent magnets in 3 – rotors, fixed to the shaft between two stator’s containing 5 – electro magnets. It’s a timing accomplishment as the permanent magnet comes near the electro magnets, we change the polarity, repelling the permanent magnet and attracting the next.<br /> With this we generate tremendous torque and RPM’S (10,000)<br /> The electro magnets have a secondary windings, whose electrons are excited by the changing polarity, which recharges the batteries and significant other uses(1,000+ volts).<br /> This motor emits NO, Co2, and does not burn oil or gasoline. This solves the oil and gasoline crisis, eliminates refueling logistics and eliminates greenhouse gases.<br /> This motor “CHANGES EVERYTHING” and is a “Nobel Prize” type development. This is a great development for our country. Young men in our area developed it. We have several working pro to types, soon will have working model that will power a US Army Tank.<br /> We would welcome the chance to show this to you.</p><p>Sincerely<br /> Henry Johnson, Agent<br /> TWM Technology LLC<br /> 3490 E N Union rd.<br /> Bay City, MI 48706,<br /> 989 684 7050</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: unmannedanimal</title><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/11/24/cancel-marines-efv-already-analysts/#comment-3977</link> <dc:creator>unmannedanimal</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 04:04:51 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=2822#comment-3977</guid> <description>i feel obligated to point out this plum plucked monday: &quot;EG&amp;G, Dumfries, Va., is being awarded $5,193,076 for task order #0070 under a previously awarded contract (M67854-02-A-9011) for Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle (EFV) support services, a key element of the Marine Corps Systems Command PM Advanced Amphibious Assault (PM AAA) ... includes the support services to advance the use of technology to improve system performance and operations, achieve design-to-unit production cost objectives, and to define mature production and manufacturing processes ... expected to be completed in December 2009. Contract funds will not expire at the end of the current fiscal year.   The Marine Corps System Command, Quantico, Va., is the contracting activity.&quot;</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i feel obligated to point out this plum plucked monday:<br /> “EG&amp;G, Dumfries, Va., is being awarded $5,193,076 for task order #0070 under a previously awarded contract (M67854-02-A-9011) for Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle (EFV) support services, a key element of the Marine Corps Systems Command PM Advanced Amphibious Assault (PM AAA) … includes the support services to advance the use of technology to improve system performance and operations, achieve design-to-unit production cost objectives, and to define mature production and manufacturing processes … expected to be completed in December 2009. Contract funds will not expire at the end of the current fiscal year.   The Marine Corps System Command, Quantico, Va., is the contracting activity.”</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Cole</title><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/11/24/cancel-marines-efv-already-analysts/#comment-3959</link> <dc:creator>Cole</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 13:28:55 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=2822#comment-3959</guid> <description>Too many Marines in one huge target with inadequate armor on the sides/front and a flat bottom vulnerable to IEDs and sea mines.Too far from shore to reach it in a timely manner. With new air-cavitation torpedoes and missiles, even the mother landing craft ship are highly vulnerable anywhere near shore. Many opponents have diesel-electric subs. Unattended sea vessels are coming.Combat engineer bridges cross rivers. In both OIF I and recently against the Taliban, our 12Bs build bridges rapidly under potential fire. Ribbon bridges cross larger spans.Landing craft air-cushioned, joint high speed vessels, and larger rotorcraft are the partial solution. Pulling up to the dock in a neighboring friendly country is the main solution. Then fight with a smaller, better armored, more capable vehicle.Come on board with FCS manned ground vehicles.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Too many Marines in one huge target with inadequate armor on the sides/front and a flat bottom vulnerable to IEDs and sea mines.</p><p>Too far from shore to reach it in a timely manner. With new air-cavitation torpedoes and missiles, even the mother landing craft ship are highly vulnerable anywhere near shore. Many opponents have diesel-electric subs. Unattended sea vessels are coming.</p><p>Combat engineer bridges cross rivers. In both OIF I and recently against the Taliban, our 12Bs build bridges rapidly under potential fire. Ribbon bridges cross larger spans.</p><p>Landing craft air-cushioned, joint high speed vessels, and larger rotorcraft are the partial solution. Pulling up to the dock in a neighboring friendly country is the main solution. Then fight with a smaller, better armored, more capable vehicle.</p><p>Come on board with FCS manned ground vehicles.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: digby</title><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/11/24/cancel-marines-efv-already-analysts/#comment-3957</link> <dc:creator>digby</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 12:37:15 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=2822#comment-3957</guid> <description>To answer those who think that the EFV is not a needed program for the Marine Corps, there are a few things that should be remembered.  The Government is traditionally short-sighted.It is true that WWII style landings are a thing of the past and never to be repeated.  The problem is that with our sights focused on warfare in the deserts, we lose sight of warfare in other environments.  River operations in a jungle environment as well as other water operations in a multitude of environments is still a reality for the Marine mission on a world-wide view.  This capability must be maintained else we hamstring our strategy when this option is the correct one.It is true that the current needs of the Marine Corps is for a different platform than the EFV, but this could change tomorrow or in a year.  Better to have the technology in your pocket for when needed.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To answer those who think that the EFV is not a needed program for the Marine Corps, there are a few things that should be remembered.  The Government is traditionally short-sighted.</p><p>It is true that WWII style landings are a thing of the past and never to be repeated.  The problem is that with our sights focused on warfare in the deserts, we lose sight of warfare in other environments.  River operations in a jungle environment as well as other water operations in a multitude of environments is still a reality for the Marine mission on a world-wide view.  This capability must be maintained else we hamstring our strategy when this option is the correct one.</p><p>It is true that the current needs of the Marine Corps is for a different platform than the EFV, but this could change tomorrow or in a year.  Better to have the technology in your pocket for when needed.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: digby</title><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/11/24/cancel-marines-efv-already-analysts/#comment-3956</link> <dc:creator>digby</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 12:23:48 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=2822#comment-3956</guid> <description>The problems with the EFV and all other acronym&#039;d programs are two-fold.  Working from the inside, I see this all too well.  One major problem is that the Procurement office keeps adding more requirements and systems after the initial contract.  Each new system added requires that the project be started over again to try and cram another 10 lbs of crap into an already overloaded box.The second major problem is that the companys making the subject programs lack proper direction and oversight, allowing them to waste time and money.If the government would just put in charge someone who has a technical background that has the power, insight and willingness to call &quot;bullshit&quot; when the programs are going off-track, most programs could be brought to conclusion years earlier.The Marine Corps mandated several handcuffs that have handicapped the EFV program from the beginning, such as using an engine that they had developed rather than allowing other alternatives which would have reduced weight, increased troop space and made a much better vehicle.The company itself is mostly responsible since they didn&#039;t say, &quot;No&quot; to costly add-ons that add years to the deployment runway and focused on &quot;getting the prototypes built&quot; for some progress payment deadline instead of getting the engineering finished correctly first before wasting time and energy (read money) making prototypes that have to be modified over and over again during the initial builds.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problems with the EFV and all other acronym’d programs are two-fold.  Working from the inside, I see this all too well.  One major problem is that the Procurement office keeps adding more requirements and systems after the initial contract.  Each new system added requires that the project be started over again to try and cram another 10 lbs of crap into an already overloaded box.</p><p>The second major problem is that the companys making the subject programs lack proper direction and oversight, allowing them to waste time and money.</p><p>If the government would just put in charge someone who has a technical background that has the power, insight and willingness to call “bullshit” when the programs are going off-track, most programs could be brought to conclusion years earlier.</p><p>The Marine Corps mandated several handcuffs that have handicapped the EFV program from the beginning, such as using an engine that they had developed rather than allowing other alternatives which would have reduced weight, increased troop space and made a much better vehicle.</p><p>The company itself is mostly responsible since they didn’t say, “No” to costly add-ons that add years to the deployment runway and focused on “getting the prototypes built” for some progress payment deadline instead of getting the engineering finished correctly first before wasting time and energy (read money) making prototypes that have to be modified over and over again during the initial builds.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Darryl</title><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/11/24/cancel-marines-efv-already-analysts/#comment-3947</link> <dc:creator>Darryl</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 12:47:11 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=2822#comment-3947</guid> <description>Typical of the sites that allow comments, most of the people making the comments speak on topics for which they have no knowledge. Let&#039;s start with cost.The $22M quoted by many on this site is not a per vehicle cost post development. This cost includes all development and NRC associated with the program from initial contract award to present. When the decision to buy half the original number of vehicles was made, the developmental/NRC cost doubled. And contrary to some peoples believe, when you cut program funds to support wars, program cost do not go down.BAE is not the prime contractor; General Dynamics is the prime contractor.The EFV has no problem obtaining plane (necessary for high speed water mode) in all sea states in which it would be launched. This KPP was achieved years ago and only four years after the award of the initial contract. Recent design changes have made that capability even more robust. On land, the EFV will out run nearly all armored vehicles and will keep pace with the M1A2 Main Battle Tank (another combat vehicle built by GD that was chastised on Websites such as this; its legacy speaks for itself).The issue that stopped the EFV from going to LRIP 2 years ago was reliability. That was they only KPP that was not satisfactorily demonstrated during SDD Operational Assessment. But let me put that shortfall into perspective. 10 SDD vehicles were built for developmental testing and to perform operational assessment. Not long after the SDD contract was awarded, the Afghan war began. For the next 7 years, the EFV program experienced a number of substantial budget cuts to help support that war and then the war in Iraq. As a result, critical funding was not available. These funding cuts were felt in all areas and in particular, test vehicle support. For 4 years the 10 vehicles were literally beaten down with depleted funding for adequate overhauls and then the vehicles were turned over to Marines to perform operational assessments. For all intents and purposes, the EFVs used in OA had nearly as many hours on them as 35 year old AAVs in the fleet. Basically, the EFV had already reached the end of any rational service life model. One last comment on reliability. 4.5 hours MTBMCF is not even close to correct and falls into the same 1+1+1=2 math used to compute the vehicle per unit cost.The question here is not whether the EFV is or will be ready to serve the Marines. It is and it can. The only question is whether the Marines still need an amphibious fleet. I am sure that many on this site believe they know the answer, but I do not. I will leave the answer to that question to the pros. What I do know is that if the answer is, “yes the Marines need an amphibious capability,” then the EFV is the correct choice to fulfill that requirement.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Typical of the sites that allow comments, most of the people making the comments speak on topics for which they have no knowledge. Let’s start with cost.</p><p>The $22M quoted by many on this site is not a per vehicle cost post development. This cost includes all development and NRC associated with the program from initial contract award to present. When the decision to buy half the original number of vehicles was made, the developmental/NRC cost doubled. And contrary to some peoples believe, when you cut program funds to support wars, program cost do not go down.</p><p>BAE is not the prime contractor; General Dynamics is the prime contractor.</p><p>The EFV has no problem obtaining plane (necessary for high speed water mode) in all sea states in which it would be launched. This KPP was achieved years ago and only four years after the award of the initial contract. Recent design changes have made that capability even more robust. On land, the EFV will out run nearly all armored vehicles and will keep pace with the M1A2 Main Battle Tank (another combat vehicle built by GD that was chastised on Websites such as this; its legacy speaks for itself).</p><p>The issue that stopped the EFV from going to LRIP 2 years ago was reliability. That was they only KPP that was not satisfactorily demonstrated during SDD Operational Assessment. But let me put that shortfall into perspective. 10 SDD vehicles were built for developmental testing and to perform operational assessment. Not long after the SDD contract was awarded, the Afghan war began. For the next 7 years, the EFV program experienced a number of substantial budget cuts to help support that war and then the war in Iraq. As a result, critical funding was not available. These funding cuts were felt in all areas and in particular, test vehicle support. For 4 years the 10 vehicles were literally beaten down with depleted funding for adequate overhauls and then the vehicles were turned over to Marines to perform operational assessments. For all intents and purposes, the EFVs used in OA had nearly as many hours on them as 35 year old AAVs in the fleet. Basically, the EFV had already reached the end of any rational service life model. One last comment on reliability. 4.5 hours MTBMCF is not even close to correct and falls into the same 1+1+1=2 math used to compute the vehicle per unit cost.</p><p>The question here is not whether the EFV is or will be ready to serve the Marines. It is and it can. The only question is whether the Marines still need an amphibious fleet. I am sure that many on this site believe they know the answer, but I do not. I will leave the answer to that question to the pros. What I do know is that if the answer is, “yes the Marines need an amphibious capability,” then the EFV is the correct choice to fulfill that requirement.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: CWO2 Culver</title><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/11/24/cancel-marines-efv-already-analysts/#comment-3946</link> <dc:creator>CWO2 Culver</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 12:38:07 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=2822#comment-3946</guid> <description>I am simply amazed at the piss and vinegar comments toward the Marines and Navy.  I have always been taught that you seek improvement.  Those that say it should be done in &quot;five&quot; years have obviously never worked in engineering.  Those that say we should use exhisting technology would have us riding around in Sherman Tanks.  Those that say what about &quot;choppers&quot; prove my point by thier use of the term.  They are old school.  They would prefer we still drive the &quot;model T&quot;.  Straight air power is not the answer.  You have to have boots on the ground and those troops need superior fire power when they arrive.  The Amphibious assault provides that.  This along with para ops will secure the airfields and ports for a follow on force.  It just goes to show how ignorant some armchair quarterbacks are.  They would prefer a Normandy style assault but forget the lives that we lost by the thousands.  &quot;The objective is not to die for your country but make the other poor bastard die for his!&quot; The suggestion that we use MRAPS provided by another country again shows the lack of knowledge and forthought.  Do you really want to depend on unstable governments to provide your weponry and are you not aware that we produce our own weapons and vehicles.  You would probably prefer the cheaper Chineese vehicles never mind the possibility of war with them.  I am sure they will hook us up with weapons to fight against themselves.  WOW you must all be Democrats.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am simply amazed at the piss and vinegar comments toward the Marines and Navy.  I have always been taught that you seek improvement.  Those that say it should be done in “five” years have obviously never worked in engineering.  Those that say we should use exhisting technology would have us riding around in Sherman Tanks.  Those that say what about “choppers” prove my point by thier use of the term.  They are old school.  They would prefer we still drive the “model T”.  Straight air power is not the answer.  You have to have boots on the ground and those troops need superior fire power when they arrive.  The Amphibious assault provides that.  This along with para ops will secure the airfields and ports for a follow on force.  It just goes to show how ignorant some armchair quarterbacks are.  They would prefer a Normandy style assault but forget the lives that we lost by the thousands.  “The objective is not to die for your country but make the other poor bastard die for his!” The suggestion that we use MRAPS provided by another country again shows the lack of knowledge and forthought.  Do you really want to depend on unstable governments to provide your weponry and are you not aware that we produce our own weapons and vehicles.  You would probably prefer the cheaper Chineese vehicles never mind the possibility of war with them.  I am sure they will hook us up with weapons to fight against themselves.  WOW you must all be Democrats.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Militor</title><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/11/24/cancel-marines-efv-already-analysts/#comment-3943</link> <dc:creator>Militor</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 07:54:25 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=2822#comment-3943</guid> <description>Vehicles very similar to these were used in Vietnam. Regardless of how many Knots they go in water. The solders in Vietnam had to ride on top of there aluminum chariots to keep from burning to death inside. Ammo for the main gun, fuel,batteries, MG ammo, hydraulic oil, electrical. And how thick is that aluminum floor? For 22 million each,I think any rag head would love to whack that thing and everyone in it. And then scream Allah Akbar while the guys run out on fire. The vehicle is a total rip off of taxpayers money. 22 Million. People talk like that is suppose to be a deal or something to applaud. Performance. The thing has so much horse power that it barely goes straight. They use two water outlets that fight each other and bounce the vehicle from side to side. Don&#039;t get all fuzzy over this one. This isn&#039;t the only way to approach a beach and say here we are. OK. Lets do some math. 22 million times 50. That is over a billion. You can go to the local real estate office in most countries of people who don&#039;t wear shoes. And buy the whole country. Like Somalia. Better yet! Ask everyone you know that has about 22 million. Hey Dude, em... ya, wanna buy this cool AAV? I might be able to get you 10% off if you buy fifty. But the oil filters are from Germany. So look on EBay first. I sure you can get a better price. No body else in the world wants one of these things. NO BODY. And if they DOOOOO? The U.S. Tax payer via the State Dept. Through the Pentagon buys them. And gives them to Israel or Mexico. Then they  pay BAE or FMC or some other $600.00 dollar a day mechanic to work om em for them. Any more armor on this thing and it won&#039;t float. It barely does now. Pay BAE a billion dollars. They can go F up their country like they F ed up ours. You won&#039;t eve have to invade it. They will over run it with their Pentagon pimps! And bleed the country dry so they can fend off any any all threats. The world is getting smarter. 22 Million. Your on crack!</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vehicles very similar to these were used in Vietnam. Regardless of how many Knots they go in water. The solders in Vietnam had to ride on top of there aluminum chariots to keep from burning to death inside. Ammo for the main gun, fuel,batteries, MG ammo, hydraulic oil, electrical. And how thick is that aluminum floor?<br /> For 22 million each,I think any rag head would love to whack that thing and everyone in it. And then scream Allah Akbar while the guys run out on fire. The vehicle is a total rip off of taxpayers money. 22 Million. People talk like that is suppose to be a deal or something to applaud. Performance. The thing has so much horse power that it barely goes straight. They use two water outlets that fight each other and bounce the vehicle from side to side. Don’t get all fuzzy over this one. This isn’t the only way to approach a beach and say here we are.<br /> OK. Lets do some math. 22 million times 50. That is over a billion. You can go to the local real estate office in most countries of people<br /> who don’t wear shoes. And buy the whole country.<br /> Like Somalia. Better yet! Ask everyone you know that has about 22 million. Hey Dude, em… ya,<br /> wanna buy this cool AAV? I might be able to get you 10% off if you buy fifty. But the oil filters are from Germany. So look on EBay first. I sure you can get a better price.<br /> No body else in the world wants one of these things. NO BODY. And if they DOOOOO? The U.S. Tax payer via the State Dept. Through the Pentagon buys them. And gives them to Israel or Mexico. Then they  pay BAE or FMC or some other<br /> $600.00 dollar a day mechanic to work om em for them. Any more armor on this thing and it won’t float. It barely does now. Pay BAE a billion dollars. They can go F up their country like they F ed up ours. You won’t eve have to invade it. They will over run it with their Pentagon pimps! And bleed the country dry so they can<br /> fend off any any all threats. The world is getting smarter. 22 Million. Your on crack!</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Joel</title><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/11/24/cancel-marines-efv-already-analysts/#comment-3931</link> <dc:creator>Joel</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 13:17:45 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=2822#comment-3931</guid> <description>I tell ya, the writer of this article surely got it wrong.Anti-ship missles?  Are you kidding?  This thing is screaming along on the water at 30 knots, and still maneuvers with agility.  Plus, there&#039;s like 50 of them coming at once for a typical incursion.  Even a well-placed sophisticated system couldn&#039;t pick &#039;em off.  And that&#039;s the point of the EFV... you can&#039;t anticipate the location of the landing!Also, the writer insists that the seas must be like glass for the EFV to go on plane.  Nonsense!  It makes the ride rougher, but the machine is fully capable of on-plane operation in very heavy littorals.The EFV is vulnerable to RPG attack (for now), it&#039;s true.  But the point is moot for IED vulnerability.  The EFV is a lethal incursion tool.  IED&#039;s are set up along known convoy routes.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tell ya, the writer of this article surely got it wrong.</p><p>Anti-ship missles?  Are you kidding?  This thing is screaming along on the water at 30 knots, and still maneuvers with agility.  Plus, there’s like 50 of them coming at once for a typical incursion.  Even a well-placed sophisticated system couldn’t pick ‘em off.  And that’s the point of the EFV… you can’t anticipate the location of the landing!</p><p>Also, the writer insists that the seas must be like glass for the EFV to go on plane.  Nonsense!  It makes the ride rougher, but the machine is fully capable of on-plane operation in very heavy littorals.</p><p>The EFV is vulnerable to RPG attack (for now), it’s true.  But the point is moot for IED vulnerability.  The EFV is a lethal incursion tool.  IED’s are set up along known convoy routes.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Scot</title><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/11/24/cancel-marines-efv-already-analysts/#comment-3926</link> <dc:creator>Scot</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 02:15:42 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=2822#comment-3926</guid> <description>Well, I have heard nothing of the EFV not meeting its performance goals on land or water. Really, to be honest all I&#039;ve seen is it wouldn&#039;t do well vs RPG&#039;s and/or Heavy Tanks. Which, sounds like the same agrument against the Bradley Armor Vehicle. Which, has turn out to be wildly successful! When you think about it I can remember controversy over just about every major military program. Like the F-16, M-1 Abrams Tank, Spruance Destroyers, etc. etc. etc.So, we are to spend billions to cancel right at the end of developement! That would be wasting alot of taxpayer money!!!! Personally, you would have to show me in black and white that the program is a total failure.Also, like one pollster pointed out! If, not the EFV what else? We going back to the drawing board and spend billions more and another 20 years...........</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I have heard nothing of the EFV not meeting its performance goals on land or water. Really, to be honest all I’ve seen is it wouldn’t do well vs RPG’s and/or Heavy Tanks. Which, sounds like the same agrument against the Bradley Armor Vehicle. Which, has turn out to be wildly successful! When you think about it I can remember controversy over just about every major military program. Like the F-16, M-1 Abrams Tank, Spruance Destroyers, etc. etc. etc.</p><p>So, we are to spend billions to cancel right at the end of developement! That would be wasting alot of taxpayer money!!!! Personally, you would have to show me in black and white that the program is a total failure.</p><p>Also, like one pollster pointed out! If, not the EFV what else? We going back to the drawing board and spend billions more and another 20 years.….……</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Scot</title><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/11/24/cancel-marines-efv-already-analysts/#comment-3925</link> <dc:creator>Scot</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 02:14:09 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=2822#comment-3925</guid> <description>Well, I have heard nothing of the EFV not meeting its performance goals on land or water. Really, to be honest all I&#039;ve seen is it wouldn&#039;t do well vs APG&#039;s and/or Heavy Tanks. Which, sounds like the same agrument against the Bradley Armor Vehicle. Which, has turn out to be wildly successful! When you think about it I can remember controversy over just about every major military program. Like the F-16, M-1 Abrams Tank, Spruance Destroyers, etc. etc. etc.So, we are to spend billions to cancel right at the end of developement! That would be wasting alot of taxpayer money!!!! Personally, you would have to show me in black and white that the program is a total failure.Also, like one pollster pointed out! If, not the EFV what else? We going back to the drawing board and spend billions more and another 20 years...........</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I have heard nothing of the EFV not meeting its performance goals on land or water. Really, to be honest all I’ve seen is it wouldn’t do well vs APG’s and/or Heavy Tanks. Which, sounds like the same agrument against the Bradley Armor Vehicle. Which, has turn out to be wildly successful! When you think about it I can remember controversy over just about every major military program. Like the F-16, M-1 Abrams Tank, Spruance Destroyers, etc. etc. etc.</p><p>So, we are to spend billions to cancel right at the end of developement! That would be wasting alot of taxpayer money!!!! Personally, you would have to show me in black and white that the program is a total failure.</p><p>Also, like one pollster pointed out! If, not the EFV what else? We going back to the drawing board and spend billions more and another 20 years.….……</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Militor</title><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/11/24/cancel-marines-efv-already-analysts/#comment-3918</link> <dc:creator>Militor</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 00:30:13 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=2822#comment-3918</guid> <description>If you add how much was wasted from the beginning of this project with administration costs and research and development prototypes. The unit price would make you puke all over it! And solders go without. So FMC and BAE can make a AAV boatload full of money. The welder that welded the hull makes more than the captain that will command the vehicle in a mission that could result in his death. The banker that loans the money to buy the materials to build these units will make more money than the whole Battalion in their lifetime. The Company will spend almost as much in lobbyist suitcase money to senators and POCs and PMs than the profit of the project. Hoping to sell parts and services after wards. That is when the real program starts. Every time the DOD does anything their is waste. Just start following the dollars. A trucking friend of mine transports Combat vehicles and trucks for the USMC. He had to pay the Dispatcher $25.00 to $150.00 per load or he would not be called back. The guy who payed the most kickback got called first and often. Shoot that dispatcher. And work your way up.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you add how much was wasted from the beginning<br /> of this project with administration costs and research and development prototypes. The unit price would make you puke all over it! And solders go without. So FMC and BAE can make a AAV boatload full of money. The welder that welded the hull makes more than the captain that will command the vehicle in a mission that could result in his death. The banker that loans the money to buy the materials to build these units will make more money than the whole Battalion in their lifetime. The Company will spend almost as much in lobbyist suitcase money to senators and POCs and PMs than the profit of the project. Hoping to sell parts and services after wards. That is when the real program starts. Every time the DOD does anything their is waste. Just start following the dollars.<br /> A trucking friend of mine transports Combat vehicles and trucks for the USMC. He had to pay the Dispatcher $25.00 to $150.00 per load or he would not be called back. The guy who payed the most kickback got called first and often. Shoot that dispatcher. And work your way up.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: DC2 Jennings</title><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/11/24/cancel-marines-efv-already-analysts/#comment-3905</link> <dc:creator>DC2 Jennings</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 15:17:04 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=2822#comment-3905</guid> <description>Vane,You are correct in indicating that we all need to take responsibility for the way things are.  At no point did you indicate that your establishment responsible for DoD procurement was responsible in any way for these fiascos.And I don&#039;t think the problem with a program that has taken 20 years to get to this point is a lack money.  Unless you want to think about how much money has been wasted with this pig.The problems with LCS, ARH, JSF and all other acronym projects is not a lack of money.  And that is especially true in a fully Republican controlled goverment.Congressional issues with military procurement is more focused on their need to please their constituents.  That means funding military programs because they bring jobs to your district or state.  It has nothing to do with a lack of funding.Quoting what Teddy did 100 years ago is just your way of avoiding responsibility.DC2</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vane,</p><p>You are correct in indicating that we all need to take responsibility for the way things are.  At no point did you indicate that your establishment responsible for DoD procurement was responsible in any way for these fiascos.</p><p>And I don’t think the problem with a program that has taken 20 years to get to this point is a lack money.  Unless you want to think about how much money has been wasted with this pig.</p><p>The problems with LCS, ARH, JSF and all other acronym projects is not a lack of money.  And that is especially true in a fully Republican controlled goverment.</p><p>Congressional issues with military procurement is more focused on their need to please their constituents.  That means funding military programs because they bring jobs to your district or state.  It has nothing to do with a lack of funding.</p><p>Quoting what Teddy did 100 years ago is just your way of avoiding responsibility.</p><p>DC2</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Vane</title><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/11/24/cancel-marines-efv-already-analysts/#comment-3904</link> <dc:creator>Vane</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 12:38:10 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=2822#comment-3904</guid> <description>I just want to throw out a few things here.  I work in the establishment responsible for DoD procurement and sustainment of small arms, on the Government side.  Many of the flaws we all see in the way DoD practices acquisition of new systems are Congressionally mandated.  Military officers are commissioned by Congress, not the President.  Senators and Representatives, unlike the President, are elected by popular vote.  Before you vote in the next election, query your prospective Senator and/or Representative on their knowledge of things military.  If they can&#039;t give you answers that pass the common sense test, don&#039;t vote for them.  If they haven&#039;t been down range, don&#039;t vote for them.  If they won&#039;t let their sons or daughters serve in the military, don&#039;t vote for them.  If they haven&#039;t read Clausewitz or Sun Tzu, don&#039;t vote for them.  If they haven&#039;t read Stackpole&#039;s &quot;They Met At Gettysburg&quot;, don&#039;t vote for them.  It&#039;s all about choices.  I see the impact from the inside of poor choices made by the electorate.  Make no mistake, the electorate occasionally puts the right people in office, but not often enough.  More ood for thought:  When Teddy Roosevelt was President, he did a remarkable thing; he told the Conbress to piis off.  At that time, the Navy was coal fired.  Congress slashed the Navy budget to the point where it couldn&#039;t get enough funds to acquire sufficient coal to function as a blue water force.  Teddy sent &quot;The Great White Fleet&quot; half way around the world, and they were almost out of coal.  Teddy told the Congress to either fund the Navy adequately, or he&#039;d leave the ships on the other side of the world with our coasts undefended.  Amazingly, the funding was forthcoming.It shouldn&#039;t take such an action to get Congress to do the right thing.  We hold in our hands the power to make sure Congress gets it right.  Don&#039;t elect the wrong people.  That&#039;s the whole point of this writing.  It&#039;s good to point at things going wrong, and say that it shouldn&#039;t be that way.  BUT, each of us needs to take responsibility for the way things are.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just want to throw out a few things here.  I work in the establishment responsible for DoD procurement and sustainment of small arms, on the Government side.  Many of the flaws we all see in the way DoD practices acquisition of new systems are Congressionally mandated.  Military officers are commissioned by Congress, not the President.  Senators and Representatives, unlike the President, are elected by popular vote.  Before you vote in the next election, query your prospective Senator and/or Representative on their knowledge of things military.  If they can’t give you answers that pass the common sense test, don’t vote for them.  If they haven’t been down range, don’t vote for them.  If they won’t let their sons or daughters serve in the military, don’t vote for them.  If they haven’t read Clausewitz or Sun Tzu, don’t vote for them.  If they haven’t read Stackpole’s “They Met At Gettysburg”, don’t vote for them.  It’s all about choices.  I see the impact from the inside of poor choices made by the electorate.  Make no mistake, the electorate occasionally puts the right people in office, but not often enough.  More ood for thought:  When Teddy Roosevelt was President, he did a remarkable thing; he told the Conbress to piis off.  At that time, the Navy was coal fired.  Congress slashed the Navy budget to the point where it couldn’t get enough funds to acquire sufficient coal to function as a blue water force.  Teddy sent “The Great White Fleet” half way around the world, and they were almost out of coal.  Teddy told the Congress to either fund the Navy adequately, or he’d leave the ships on the other side of the world with our coasts undefended.  Amazingly, the funding was forthcoming.</p><p>It shouldn’t take such an action to get Congress to do the right thing.  We hold in our hands the power to make sure Congress gets it right.  Don’t elect the wrong people.  That’s the whole point of this writing.  It’s good to point at things going wrong, and say that it shouldn’t be that way.  BUT, each of us needs to take responsibility for the way things are.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Mike</title><link>http://www.dodbuzz.com/2008/11/24/cancel-marines-efv-already-analysts/#comment-3903</link> <dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 10:28:27 +0000</pubDate> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=2822#comment-3903</guid> <description>I read a lot about how antiquated the ideal of an amphibious fighting vehicle is and how the cheaper MRAPs should be considered or some other solution which takes in to account the modern nature of present day combat. The problem that seems to go unanswered is when it comes time for the primary marine mission to be preformed, capturing and holding forward ports and securing beach head using the three pronged nature of the over the horizon assault, how is that going to work.Many of these same issues about the out dated approach of amphibious landings were voice by the great military minds in the 50&#039;s until MacArthur landed in Inchon chaining the course of the Korean war. Or the threat of a landing gave pause to the Iroquois and held them long enough that by the time they knew what happened it was over.Then there is the whole problem of where all those very large container ship are going to off load. These are just a few of the the reasons why DoD still look at AFV&#039;s.Another problem that is over looked is that it is a lot easier to get blown out of the water in a AAV7 doing approx. 7 knots then it is in say a EFV doing 25 knots. If you have ever ridden inside of one waiting to ass out my guess is we would not be having this conversation.A final note, yes the Brits took a hit in the south Atlantic however two points were left out. First, they not only completed the mission  quite handily. Second, MoD saw the need for carries and amphibious ships and embarked on a still on going program to build next generation LPD and CV.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read a lot about how antiquated the ideal of an amphibious fighting vehicle is and how the cheaper MRAPs should be considered or some other solution which takes in to account the modern nature of present day combat. The problem that seems to go unanswered is when it comes time for the primary marine mission to be preformed, capturing and holding forward ports and securing beach head using the three pronged nature of the over the horizon assault, how is that going to work.</p><p>Many of these same issues about the out dated approach of amphibious landings were voice by the great military minds in the 50’s until MacArthur landed in Inchon chaining the course of the Korean war. Or the threat of a landing gave pause to the Iroquois and held them long enough that by the time they knew what happened it was over.</p><p>Then there is the whole problem of where all those very large container ship are going to off load. These are just a few of the the reasons why DoD still look at AFV’s.</p><p>Another problem that is over looked is that it is a lot easier to get blown out of the water in a AAV7 doing approx. 7 knots then it is in say a EFV doing 25 knots. If you have ever ridden inside of one waiting to ass out my guess is we would not be having this conversation.</p><p>A final note, yes the Brits took a hit in the south Atlantic however two points were left out. First, they not only completed the mission  quite handily. Second, MoD saw the need for carries and amphibious ships and embarked on a still on going program to build next generation LPD and CV.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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