Topline Cuts Loom, Personnel $$ Targeted: Murtha

Topline Cuts Loom, Personnel $$ Targeted: Murtha

Citing the most difficult fiscal environment he’s seen in over 30 years spent on Capitol Hill, powerful Pennsylvania congressman Jack Murtha, chairman of the House Appropriations defense subcommittee, said make no mistake about it, “there is going to be less defense spending.” As for the emergency wartime supplementals, Murtha said: they “gotta go.”

Murtha said the military’s personnel costs, running at $153 billion this year, are getting out of control. The Pentagon cannot increase both the end strength of the ground forces and procurement spending at the same time. “We’ve got to slow down the personnel increases, because that’s where the real money is, and at the same time reform the acquisition process so we can buy at a reasonable rate.”

Despite record levels of defense spending, which reached $656 billion in 2008, overall military readiness has fallen to dangerous levels because of the grinding demands of the Iraq war, Murtha said, speaking today at the Center for American Progress, a Democratically aligned think tank in Washington, D.C.


The most pressing national security challenge facing the incoming Obama administration will be “redeploying from Iraq and then developing an achievable strategy for Afghanistan.” Murtha was clear to make the point that he was not saying troops should be pulled from Iraq and sent to Afghanistan. First, he wants to hear the Obama team’s plan for how it intends to avoid becoming another in a long list of countries that have invaded Afghanistan only to meet an ugly fate fighting its implacable tribes. “I’m concerned when I hear of increasing our military presence by up to four brigades without a plan,” not only for Afghanistan, but for the entire region. The U.S. faces a much tougher and more formidable foe in Afghanistan than it did in Iraq, he said.

The challenge will be to “manage current and future threats under a constrained defense budget.” The economy is in recession and federal deficits and debt are at historic levels. There is a growing list of claimants for federal money to bail out failed business, for infrastructure projects to spur economic growth and for entitlement spending to care for an ageing population, he said.

While he did not identify specific weapons programs that should be either cancelled or curtailed, he chided the military services for failing to provide Congress with consistent numbers of how many ships, fighters and other pieces of equipment they really need and their habit of constantly changing program requirements.

Air Force acquisition is a mess and must be fixed, Murtha said, citing the never ending aerial tanker story and the two decades it took to develop the F-22. The Navy also came under fire for changing its mind on whether it needed the complex and costly new-build DDG-1000 destroyer or wanted to buy more DDG-51 destroyers.

The military’s long list of challenges cannot be addressed until the nation has a comprehensive national security strategy. “It should be based on what effects our national security, period.” He called the Iraq war a “terrible, terrible mistake,” part of the Bush administration’s short sighted, reactive strategy based on the events of September 11, 2001.

Murtha said he opposed creation of the all-volunteer force because he feared the U.S. would be unable to field enough troops in the event of a protracted war without a draft. Those fears have been borne out, he said, as the Army has been forced to stop loss 185,000 soldiers, “that’s a draft, they’re keeping people beyond their enlistment.” The Army has had to accept lower quality recruits and while Army and Marine Corps re-enlistment and recruiting numbers are up, it has cost the U.S. $2 billion in bonuses since 2007. Defense Secretary Robert Gates has failed to make good on a vow he made in 2007 to end stop loss, Murtha said.

Murtha blasted the intelligence community for a long history of failures, despite the fact that the U.S. spends more on intelligence than any country in the world. The intelligence agencies have become top heavy with too many administrators and their organization should be re-examined.

Also speaking at today’s event was another Democratic congressman from Pennsylvania, retired Navy admiral Joe Sestak, who urged OSD to get involved in the requirements side of the service’s acquisition process. “The military should set the requirements, but there should be in the process that linkage between strategy and requirements.” The JROC has become like the old JCS where all the services get an equal share of the budget, he said.

He said the Goldwater-Nichols act, that created incentive for a joint force, should be extended to create a truly joint acquisition process to eliminate redundancies across different services’ programs.

[Photo: Reallynews​.com]

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I find Mr. Murtha’s concerns regarding the draft not being used hollow and hypocritical. He may have opposed ending the draft. In which case he endorsed involuntary servitude, a tax that offends both the career ambitions and planning of our youth, and deprives them of what otherwise has been shown to be the legitimate market value of a soldier.

Mr. Murtha (forget his military title, he is not deserving of further consideration on that matter) needs to in fact start figuring out how to increase the end strength of our military to what it would have been had Democratic (and yes) Republican administrations had “right sized” the volunteer military to begin with.

The 185,000 “stop-loss” was only testimony to that failure to realistically plan military size and strength.

“he is not deserving of further consideration on that matter”

Unremarkably unpatriotic of you.

For once Murta has it right, we should reinstate a public service draft even if it “offends the career ambitions and planning of our youth! “Public Service” is a word that many of out youth are no longer familiar with, if they don’t want to join the military, let them go into VISTA or the Peace Corps!

There was no doubt in my mind that the military would be downsized to the point that it may be unable to perform it’s mission, as soon as the new administration takes office.

I just hope that the next time the terrorists decide to attack the U.S., that they do it on Murtha’s door step. May he be the first to know what it’s like not to have the military there to protect him. And as for Obama, I heard the other day that his primary concern at this moment is how American’s view Muslim’s. He wants peace for all and for American’s to view them as equals. I hope you, who voted for this bunch, are the first to feel the ramifications of your decisions, when all your freedoms are lost and you have no military left to protect them. When you have your head cut off, then have your family tell me how much you just love Obama. Civilized? — Obama? — puleeze! See how happy you are when the Murtha’s, the Michael Moore’s, the Alec Baldwin’s and the other bleeding heart liberals destroy our Nation and we no longer have a National Anthem, a Flag, or a Strong Military to preserve our Free Nation!

One of my most concerns with the military is in reference to the stop loss policy, i would like to know why this only applies to the lowly ground pounder ranks while we have a never ending change of ranks at the higher end of the military, hown many times have we had change at the command structure during the Iraq conflict. I also question why we continue to provide overseas and combat pay those personel who have never seen a day in Iraq and serve out their time in country club atmosphere in Saudi and Kuwait, the higher ranking people will never find an end to the war while they are making the bid bucks and are not getting their hands dirty.

Congressman Jack Murtha the best example of why there needs to be congressional term limits on the House and Senate seats. This political firestorm has out served his usefulness long ago and needs to relocate elsewhere where he is less dangerous to the American military he claims to serve. I do not know how these individuals who claim to be the watchdog of the military can look themselves in the mirror each day and like what they see (if they can see at all). He has become an embarrassment to America and it form of free democracy of being governed by the people for the people. Congressman Murtha, if you read this message, please fully understand what is being said here and retire ASAP without farther disgracing the position you hold and those you impact…the American military.

Mr. Murtha, as we continue down the road, it is with great sadness that I read your rethoric about the military. If you want to, why don’t you go over there and be a soldier, and use what they have and fight who they are fighting. Oh forgive me for stating the obvious, you won’t. When the US, stops being the world watch dog, then maybe you and congress can look at other ways for the tax payer to save money. Like why do you all get a retirement after only serving one term in office…enough said there, look at yourselfs before you go and throw stones at the military.

When we cut our military forces down to a size that can no longer causes comments from the “TOP”, perhaps we will use the US Forces to defend us against the West Coast Army or the Northeast Air Force or even the Southern Militia Defenses.…We may become a nation of multiple Forces that just fight each other to keep busy. DIVIDE AND CONQUER. then no one wins.

The dems are counting the days until they can downsize us again. I lived thru the Clinton years and I am 19 months away from retirement, God Help us all if the dems start slashing at our budget again.

Mr Murtha(D)is obviously the same type of democrate as Bill Clinton when he was in office. Clinton’s view was too shrink the military.Clinton wanted to give power to the “UNIONS”, so they can hire a bunch of workers to change light bulbs at $30.00 an hour.

I think the (D) should now stand for “defenseless idiots”. We need to shrink the pork barrel politicians, who have no clue how to run a country. One way not to run goverment is too give ” UNIONS ” more power. If you want to keep jobs in the USA, hire a work force who wants to work, bargain, bargain bargain. If I were running a business with unions involvement and they want to bargain. It only take one word “results”, show me the results baby,then will talk.

We need military power and the only way too obtain power is to providemoney so we can expand technology. Technology will makes us a stronger force and will provide weapons that can deter the enemy.

I love the word “powerful” in describing Mr Murtha, seems too me he needs to go. We need a weak “MR. Something” who will work for the team and the common man who works for a living. For all you people who need someone to “bargain for you”, your weak. Get a real job!

I don’t care if Mr. Murtha’s comment about the draft is hollow. The real point is whether the AVF (all-volunteer force) is sustainable monetarily. I argue it is not. You can complain argue about the “market value” of service members all you want, but all of the combat arms MOSs have very little real value in labor terms. They have no civilian counterparts (unless you want to talk about Blackwater and DynCorp– too expensive and lack accountability).
The disingenuousness of your arguement is also apparent: you want to defend the United States and bankrupt it at the same time. The AVF is a failure– admit it. Market forces are great for consumer products and the civilian labor market, but it should not drive military recruitment and expensive inducements to serve. The draft worked well enough for World War II, Korea, and Vietnam. If we reinstate it, then it needs to have the college deferments and marriage deferments removed. Otherwise arguments against it are hollow. The deficit funding of Defense, Social Security, and Medicare have to stop– now! So decrease spending and raise taxes if necessary.

Same song, next verse.….from a same pathetic one!!!!

Hey Jack,
With all due respect to your position as a member of Congress (even though as a group you have the lowest approval rating in our history) you seem to represent the worst in American politics. I have visited your District and seen first-hand examples of your glad-hand work. Nothing however compares to your current rhetoric on the Military Budget. As an example you decry the $2 Billion spent on bonuses and would replace that logic with a Draft. Let’s see.…keeping those who have demonstrated their proficiency…or sweeping the nation for the unwilling and the marginally competent. Great job! Keep up the mediocre work.

Jack Murtha has become a joke when considering the needs of the servicemen and women. He was outdated when in Vietnam and is more so now. It distresses me that he has such a strong position in military procurement and direction.

Yes, he is an excellent argument for twerm limits.

So Murtha, You are saying to slow voluntary recruits into the military but use the draft as a back up — just in case of a big conflict.

I can not even imagine what kind of headache that will cause. It is a hundred times harder trying to discipline or teach someone who doesn’t want to be there. I mean it worked so well in the Vietnam War. You are nuts

At the last G-20 meeting Bush got many key EU nations to promise that they would lower their interest rates. That said, I thing the Murtha and the Democrats are stuck a little bit on stupit big time. The dollar is set to take off for quite a while. Obama is going to look really silly, with all his bailout efforts.
Almost as dumb as Murtha’s military cutbacks!

Murtha is an idiot.

The big picture is there for everyone to see, Social Security will have the ability to bankrupt the government. The idea that Mr Murtha is trying to convey is that there is not enough money in the budgets for the forseeable future to cover all the governments obligations, so something has to go. The democrats generally are on the socialist mindset that makes defense the logical place to start cutting. That understood, then the US will have to get out of the terror fighting business. The short answer, you mess with the US, you get nuked. Don’t take alot of soldiers to use nukes. That is why there is a BIG push to to get our nuclear forces back in order.
Nuking the Taliban would have saved us alot of trouble and saved us alot of money in the process. Way to think democrats, what about the fallout?

OK, smart guys– what’s YOUR solution? We’re in the begining of a long and drawn-out recession that will probably end-up a depression. We’ve got unemployment reaching 10% (that’s 1 out of 10 people unable to find work those of you that can’t count) and banks and business are folding daily. In the meantime, the Air Farce is sucking-up 35% of the DoD budget building aircraft that do NOT work as advertised (ie– JSF and F-22) and won’t use them in Iraq or Afganistan. What’s YOUR plan? What’s YOUR soultuion? We’ve got plenty of people putting their opinions out their (and opinions are like you know what and usually stink). We need SOLUTIONS. Quit whining and pull!!!

Mr. Jack Murtha, chairman of the House Appropriations defense subcommittee is so out of touch with the needs of our military forces that his comments are truly void of the needs of America’s citizens and the Security needs of our nation. It is a shame this man has been re-elected as a congress representative for the great state of PA. He has embarrassed himself and our nation and in particular the state of PA. He has made horrid comments about our military personnel and and indicated wrong doings without the facts to back up his accusations. The one thing that Jack Murtha could do to best benefit America is to retire and go home to never be heard from again. One last bit of advice, protect America and her citizens now or be on notice, you may not have the freedoms and perks you have today come tomorrow!
Edward Oliver, CMSgt,USAF, Retired

SKC(SS) — You want my soltution — get rid of the illegals and stop supporting worthless people that want a hand-out rather than work. If a person genuinely tries to work and cannot find a job, then I say help that man. If he or she sits around the house with 10 screaming kids and expects everyone to pay their way, then I say NO WAY! We give too much to away to people who do not deserve it. I see it every single day. People that will stand in a line for hours to get something free, but won’t stand in a line to apply for a job. They want to sit around and complain that they can’t feed their children and cry to the newspaper and media to give them help. Get off your 4th point of contact and get a job. There are jobs; I just got a part-time job on top of my full time job, because things are hard. You can’t tell me that work is not there; you need to take the initiative to find work. There are far too many people wanting everything handed to them. Well, I’m tired of handing to them — get up off your duff and work for it. Handouts — that’s what’s draining our economy!

I’m looking for answers from all of you smart guys, too. Bush has over 190,000 contractors and over 140,000 military personnel in Iraq. The 190,000 contractors should all be fired, and we could save $48 billion a year.

Then, there’s the joint military command at Offutt AFB (US Strategic Command) that’s sucking up another $600 million a year to do absolutely nothing but increase the management layers in the dysfunctional DoD. Mullen and Gates should fire all of the 4,000 StratCom REMF’s and save $600 million a year.

The unemployment rate is actually higher…remember all military retirees are not on the lists, nor is anyone who works part-time. The unemployment rate is probably closer to 15%.

To SKCS (SS) I don’t have the money to by a senate seat in Il, I do vote and I make sure that the people that are around me know the truth about the folks that are running our country. Maybe one day when I retire I can run for office until then I will keep supporting grassroot causes and try and make a difference.

SKCS-Don’t know where you get your info, but the F-22 Raptor and the JSF LightningII both outperform and exceed expectations from both military users and mfg. The JSF is currently undergoing performance testing of both engines and airframe. The Raptor is deployed. There is currently no need to use our top air defense fighter aircraft when the current inventory (although older) are still functional.

Here we go again! Anyone thinking and/or taking action to cut military spending and/or military personnel or the civilians supporting both is STOOPID! Did’nt this country learn ANYTHING after Clinton’s administration finished messing us up? It appears that we are gearing up to do a lot more damage to ourselves duing the incoming administration. Military retirees have a retirement income and should not be counted as unemployed.

The country’s voters made a wise decision this time. They elected an intelligent person instead of a C-minus category person. If we learned but one thing from the last eight years it’s below average individuals do not belong in the white house. Electing McCain would have sent another equally “brilliant” party animal to end up doing things to continue the ruining of the country. Having a father and grandfather who were admirals certainly was the reason for McCain even making in through the Naval Academy. Before another republican gets in, let’s make sure he’s smart! Ike and Reagan were smart. So was the senior Bush, but not “W”.

The answers aren’t readily available and if they were, would we even recognize them? The problem is that having idiots like Murtha in charge of defense appropriations (to any extent) is not the “change” Obama is looking for or that the country needs, just more flawed opinions from an aging radical whose own political career deserves more scrutiny that it’s received, conveniently. I know, he served in the Corps. So did I, so what? Does that permit him to skate on ethics and common sense?

As for quitting whining and pulling, who’s going to listen to our brilliant? Since we don’t fall into lock step behind Gates whose ideas should we support? Thunderhorse19’s? Do any of you guys really think you have the answers? Go in for an interview and quit hanging out in this diatribe location.

I see Thundershorse reads Harpers. Yes, it’s probably closer to 15%. And then?

There are people asking for solutions, well giving the banks $700 BILLION dollars hasn’t changed anything. The crooks took the money and ran, so now we need to bail out the automotive industry, at least that would save jobs. The best way to make more jobs are through rebuilding infrastructure (ie: TVA in the 1930’s)for alot of people that don’t pay all that well. The DOD is the largest government employer for professionals of all types, but they are more expensive. The answer will come in budget cuts to the DOD as stated and let them figure out what to do. The F-22 is already dead with the democrats in power and if they want to cut military personnel, get out of Iraq. There will be a price to pay for bailing out the crooks and the DOD will pay it. Yes, the US is in a severe recession thanks to the very industry that received the massive bailout. Unemployment is high and no new jobs are being generated. So Mr Murtha wants to give the crooks more money instead of keeping military professionals in uniform. I think we all can see the answer that’s coming.

And all this from a man that was once well respected. Why not just do away the all arm services and then we can save untold amounts of money. OPPS can’t do that because then we be left to defend ourself. Not a good idea well do away with all the people in Washington and start all over with reitred service members in their place and lets see how well respected we become to the world because I am sure the reitired members would not put up with the “BS” that is going on now.

The answers aren’t readily available and if they were, would we even recognize them? The problem is that having idiots like Murtha in charge of defense appropriations (to any extent) is not the “change” Obama is looking for or that the country needs, just more flawed opinions from an aging radical whose own political career deserves more scrutiny that it’s received, conveniently. I know, he served in the Corps of which values he has forgot.

The military needs to be sronger than ever with all the turmoil going on in the world.
Politics as usual needs to be put asside for our country to Thunderhorse19’s? Do any of you guys really think you have the answers? Go in for an interview and quit hanging out in this diatribe location.

I see Thundershorse reads Harpers. Yes, it’s probably closer to 15%. And then?

I spent 2006 in Afghanistan and I believed in the mission. But can we afford to keep hemmoraging national treasure in direct military interventions? Seriously — our economic situation appears to be dire. The US is a lot like the Big Three automakers, and with the same task in front of it: get real and have a shot at a soft landing; or keep pretending it’s 1950, and land like Humpty Dumpty.

I believe our big-picture problem is “imperial overreach.” An empire, company, or family of diminishing means had better make changes to stay within those means, or they lose everything. This is a lesson of history.
Imagine towing your trailer with a subcompact after the repo man takes your pick-up. Expect burning rubber and smoke from under the hood, which is metaphorically what we’re seeing now.

My solution? A broad reassessment of our international posture to bring our commitments in line with our means. That means consensus building; working with our allies; more use of “soft power;” staunching the flow of blood and treasure to Iraq; and finding a way to stabilize Afghanistan without an open-ended warfighter commitment. Then pay the bills and make butter. We can’t afford anything else, and the sooner we get real, the sooner that we — like the big automakers — can get around to returning from the brink.

I believe that has been the political plan for some time with Washington. Cut,Cut,Cut so that the military is nothing and then they will call the UN in to take over. They are inching toward one world government and one military controled by the UN. We are allowong this by not voting them out of office. Washington has been purchasing the liberal votes for years with the earmarks, something that should have been stopped years ago. Our Republic is all but over now.

Where are the calls to cut social security, medicare and medicaid? Those prgrams are actually going to expand. It is always defense that the Dems want to cut.

If the Dems said we are cutting the whole federal budget 10% at least it would be a shared sacrifice, no it is only defense.

The Dems only think about power and re-election. Non-military federal unionized employees vote HEAVILY for the Dems, military personnel vote Republican…gee does this have something to do with it?

GO OBAMA!!! GO DEMS Aleast our country WON’T BE IN A CRISIS WITH BUSH as PRESIDENT!!!!!!!!!!!

185,000 troops retained

$2 Billion for stop loss.

$10800 on average, money well spent to keep a trained warrior.

How much does it cost in money and lives to replace a trained, seasoned soldier? Their experience cannot be replaced only their postion.

Sounds like well spent money to me.

“military personnel vote Republican”

Given that the Republicans haven’t won a major war since the Civil War, I do wonder why?

This guy Murtha makes me sick. On one hand he wears this “I,m a veteran too” idea on his sleeve and then talks of downsizing our volunteer forces and replacing it with the draft.He,s a joke.

Mr. Mertha is a waste and needs to retire to some activity more suitable to his mind and attitude.

All this hand wringing really cracks me up.
Let me say this again. CLINTON did nothing to the military that the congress didn’t vote for.
Clinton was by law (BRAC, signed under BUSH41)required to preside over review and restructuring of the military. Again, made law by GHWB. Newt Gingrich and Bob Dole are as responsible for any real or perceived shortcomings in the military as anyone else.
In fact, Gingrich and Trent Lott larded up their districts military hardware producers with equipment that the military neither asked for, wanted, could man, not afford.
The fact that the US taxpayer pays as much as the next 25 nations combined for military seems to be lost on some of you folks.
That whole missile shield being planned for Europe should be scrapped unless the Euros want to pay for it lock, stock and barrel.
The Navy wanted new ships, started development then said ‘naw’. How many millions down the drain of that? The Marines want expensive, tactically obsolete equipment that shouldn’t have come this far.
As for the draft, I don’t think there should be one. If folks don’t want to take a little time out of their lives to serve their country, they either need to be prepared to pay someone who will or suffer the consequences. The army has had to lower enlistment standards and USMC likely has to a lesser extent. Problems arise with that usually in discipline and medical costs.
Medicare and Social Security are going to expand. OMG!!! No sh*t sherlock, the population is aging. Ya know what else is going to expand?
The VA and the costs associated with treating wounded soldiers and retirees in general. That’s funding that both Bush and McCain were against, as you might know but wish to overlook.

I am sick of this fat, bloated xxxxx-marine who doesn’tdeserve to be in any gov. job. this idiots that re-elected this clown are as slimee as he is.

He is a crook and scum-bag of the lowest order.

If this next administration won’t take heed of over spending, 5 years from now the US economy will melt down like an ice cream under the sun. The major cause of this economic recession was… the US government spent more than what they gain. Mr. Murtha was right in saying that war in Iraq was a very very big mistake.

“Redeploy in IRaq”????

What does that mean? (Is that the rhetoric for “pull out”)

Focus on Afgahistan?

For what? The Land of Bones?

See why nobody wants to vounteer?

Anybody got ANY idea what the goal in all this is supposed to be?

Other than draft people to keep screwing around with it because the olife has just sort gone out of the party.

This fat phony made millions for himself and family members off the defense industry to include skimming thousand in speaking fees for attending defense contractor meetings for which he also bilked the Marine Corps marking the meetings down as reserve retirement credit points.

Military people who voted for Obama and these democrats are just plain stupid.

Medicare, welfare, medicaid, social security and all other worthless programs championed by the left already make up 70% of our budget. These programs will bankrupt US much sooner than $650 billion dollar military budget.

Missile shield in Europe… Doesn’t our leadership realizes that Europeans hate our guts. The has come to pull out all of our forces from Europe, Japan, South Korea, and all other places which directly associates with USA. I spent month and a half in S. Korea and we have three student protests outside Camp Casey. “Americans go home” — well, maybe we should. Let them fight starving N. Koreans.

Redeploy our military along Mexican-American border and pull down Spanish version of WhiteHouse​.com. If I could learn English at the age of 18 so can Latinos. Otherwise, I want it in Russian and Ukrainian languages as well.

–“Total December 11th, 2008 at 7:27 pm
“military personnel vote Republican”
Given that the Republicans haven’t won a major war since the Civil War, I do wonder why?“
Yes, Democrats start wars, Republicans fight them.

Interesting to note that a person who never attended HS in US and never took American History class in college knows the history of this great nation better than 90% of those who were and raised here.

From the top war after the civil war and presidents who fought them:
1. 1898 — Spanish-American War — Won — McKinley®;
2. 1899–1902 Philippines — Won — McKinley ®& Teddy Roosevelt ®;
3. WWI — 1918 — Won — Wilson (D)
4. WWII — 1939–1945 — Won — Roosevelt (D) Truman (D)
5. Korean War — 1950–1953 — Started by Truman (D), won by Eisenhower ®
6. Vietnam — started by Kennedy (D) also the Bay of Pigs (good job), lost by LBJ (D), finished by Nixon ®
7. Grenada? — 1983 — Won — Regan ®
8. Panama? — 1989 — Won — Regan ®
9. Gulf War — 1991 — Won — Bush Senior ®
10. Balkans — 1999 — Won or Lost does not matter — Clinton (along with Somalia) thank you for forcing me to fight on behalf of Global Jihad
11. Iraq — 2003-Present — GW ®- what a screw up!
12. Afghanistan — 2001 — Present — People have been fighting here for the last 2,000 years. Silk route to China lied through there. Nobody can win in Afghanistan.

Actually, as it seems, the only war lost so far, was lost by Dems.

And one more thing… Stop wasting money on UN. A third of countries represented in General Assembly have wide spread problem with Cannibalism, half does not allow women to drive, speak, or hold gov’t post, quarter executes gays, and two-thirds want to see our country wiped from the face of the Earth. We had enough common sense to reject the League of Nations after WWI, where did we go wrong after WWII?

I found your commentaries offensive, for Latinos, most of Latinos are bilingual, and this the second larger Spanish speaking country in the world.
Do not generalize. Latinos have been in this country as much as any other community.
And we did not annihilate the Indians to live here.

Senator Sestak speaking about poor requirements definition is right on! Though it was the last sentence in the article, it speaks volumes. I’ve worked in DoD military systems acquisition for 28 years and the quality of acquisition management and experience provided by DoD has just nose-dived in that time. None of these Pentagon fellows leading ACAT programs seem to agree on, or for that matter know what a “requirement” means anymore. They just throw money!

How can we take anything Mr. Murtha says and give it any credance. After he tried to publically flush our heroes in uniform by calling them “murderers”, then he was proved dead wrong (a very familiar place for him), and then doesn’t apologize to the Marines after making a fool out of himself, he expects us to buy his typically demacrat dribble about stripping our fighting forces down. How about we reduce Government spending, and issue a budget for Capitol Hill to adhere to? Who votes these people in, over and over. Oh yea, I know, Mr. Murtha said they were ‘red necks’and racist.
Apparently enough red necks and racist voted him back into office, but we all still have to see and hear him.

Let’s get Murtha dumped…instead of blathering about the guy…do something. As far as money is concerned, the treasure of our country should be for its citizens not banks…for the welfare of the fighting blood, sweat and tears, and the strong defense armor, equipment, water and good food for that force.. I am fed up with the mental health of the Military leaders that a certain percent of us are dispensable…say 4,200???? What about the over 3,800 wickedly injured.… Period…amen…and I am getting mad as _ _ _ _!!!

“Interesting to note that a person who never attended HS in US and never took American History class in college knows the history of this great nation better than 90% of those who were and raised here.”

I said “major” wars, genius, wars in which more than 10,000 Americans died in combat.

So:

Civil War: Lincoln ®–Win
WWI: Wilson (D)–Win
WWII: Roosevelt (D)–Win
Korea: Truman (D), Eisenhower ®:–Draw.
Vietnam: Kennedy (D), Johnson (D), Nixon ® –Loss

The Republicans haven’t won a major war since the Civil War, as I said. In that time, the Democrats have managed to win two world wars. The GOP is zero for the twentieth century in major wars, which is quite humiliating. It suggests that when a major war starts and there’s a Republican President in office, they should immediately resign in favor of the nearest Democrat.

Oh and for someone who chides people about their historical knowledge, you should learn how to spell Reagan’s name.

I am at a loss for words. Murtha has definitely been in congress too long — he forgot what it is like to be a soldier or a patriot. He is in bed with the speaker too much for our good. This fight on terrorism will see a huge break when Obama is in office I suspect the military will loose 30% of their senior staff if not 50%. Budget cuts are inevitable and the politicians run wars not our Generals! Maybe they will get with the American Program the citizens supported by the military. A Draft Lottery is not a bad idea if you live in the USA you should be a citizen ready to defend this great nation of ours. PERIOD. aYERS AND fONDA SHOULD HAVE BEEN HUNG AS TRAITORS LONG AGO.

Mr. Murtha’s grasp on reality is tenuous at best. This Former Marine (the only one in existance) has made claims and accusations in the past that have proven false. Sadly, the people of his homestate continue to vote him back into office.

I find it ironic that the King of Earmarks talks about excessive spending and the need to cut budgets.

John Murtha is a rambling crook. Charlie Wilson saved his ass as a favor to Tip O’Neil. We could have been rid of him then. He’s a low-life crook who didn’t have the nerve to take the money then. He stammered through it and thought about someone else doing it for him! He is a disgrace to the USMC and a traitor. If he did what he does now in WW 2 he would forever be banished from American life. I cannot believe people in Pennsylvania actually put this scumbag back in office! Piece of S%@T!

Murtha’s concern would ring more true if he was as concerned about the much greater damage of NEA and UAW profligacy.

I forgot the SEIU.

To: Luis

I’ve been in US for 15 years minus four that I have spent in the military. In all these years, the only people who complained to me that I do not speak their language were people who spoke Spanish as their first language and I live in a city that is 37% Asian, 11% Latino.

On the other hand, if so many Latinos speak English then we definitely do not need to have whitehouse​.gov in Spanish language.

To: Total

I do apologize that we became this good in fighting wars. Next one we try to loose at least 10,000. The fact that we depose a brutal dictator with a million man army and pacify most of Afghanistan, not counting tribal regions on a border with Pakistan while Russians, in 18 years of occupation, could not even secure one road, does not constitute a large enough war?

Also, please understand that at the time when WWI and WWII were fought, Democrats were called

Opps,

Southern Democrats and their preferred pass time was burning churches and hanging black people. Look at the biography of the oldest seating Democrat in the House of Reps.

Also, in response to this nonsense — “The Republicans haven’t won a major war since the Civil War, as I said. In that time, the Democrats have managed to win two world wars”. What you are actually saying when Republicans start the war they win with under 10,000 of America casualties, but when Democrats start wars they manage to loose a whole lot more? Is that your argument?

However, I do apologize for misspelling President Reagan’s name, the name of the perhaps the greatest president of the 20th century. But still, pretty damn good for someone who learned the language in this order — Russian, Ukrainian, French, English, and Serbian.

Is everyone seriously debating which party was better at sending soldiers to their deaths? So the Rep. and the Dem. both sent people into battle, you’re basically arguing over who did a better job, out of two police officers, releasing two dogs at a target, how those dogs do may be a slight reflection of thier masters but when it comes down to it, it’s the dogs that goes to war. so I think this Rep. and Dem. thing that’s going on can stop, as for cutting funding.……durring a time of national crisis, when we only have a few dollars to rub together? yeah, shock and awe, we’ve managed to spend our proverbial credit cards long enough to run up a national debt that’s never been higher, and like high school teenagers just figured our daddy would bail us out, unfortuately the U.S. has no daddy, just an uncle and he’s the one that’s been blowing the money, so yes a monetary cut to the military was inevitable. but the military will keep going, as for stop loss I think it’s a shame to have to do that, and it very much counts as involuntary service, it’s just a draft on a more descreat level, so to say that there is no draft isn’t quite accurate, however I also agree that in times of need a trained soldier (to whatever degree they are trained or experienced) is a resource that the united states cannot, (and apparently won’t) over look.

The other issue that was brought up was that the military is indecisive. seriously? an enire force of hundreds of thousands of people, all with their own agenda, can’t stay united? that’s an error on his part if he thinks that will change, the military isn’t just a strike force, we are a reaction force and in that sense we need to be able to react to whatever threat is deemed eventual, plausable, or possible, in that order. the problem with trying to prepare for something that hasn’t happened is that it’s based on what is happening, and the war in Iraq and the action in Afganistan are constently changing. so with change comes change, if we have a meeting with the afgan terrorists and the Iraqi terrorists an we can all come to a consensus on what they will be doing so that we can be ready, I think this will save thousands in the intel. department and millions in contract money spent on war machines that we won’t need. now realistically this is not going to happen, the military is going to use whatever resource they have to do whatever our mission is. We would prefer to do it with modern weapons but the people in the field are no the people in the offices ordering the new weapons, there’s too many cogs moving and occationally they jam, the best part about the miltary is that since it’s creation of random people that believed in doing the right thing to fight a common precieved enemy, we have used everything from rocks, sticks, fire, water, explosives, ballistics and I’m sure a few random weapons of convienence. so comming up with a “cure” for the indecisive-ness of the military will be followed shortly by the end of war, cancer, and aids. all that will happen when the budget is cut (not that I’m for it by any means) is that the military will have to adjust fire to keep the missions going, the higher officer ranks will stop traveling as much and rely more on international phone calls (which are considerably less expensive than thousands of dollars in jet fuel) and the military will start a new noodles and cheese maccaroni dinning facility while they tear down the other dinning facility in place of a taco bell or mcdonalds contract to make extra money on the base. it would suck, but anyone that has had a tight month comming up to the next paycheck knows whats in store for us nationally.

” do apologize that we became this good in fighting wars.”

You didn’t become “this good” you just chickened out of fighting big wars in favor of picking on smaller fries. Beating up on Grenada is *so* impressive.

“pacify most of Afghanistan”

There’s an impressive accomplishment: ‘We mostly won! Kind of!”

“What you are actually saying when Republicans start the war they win with under 10,000 of America casualties, but when Democrats start wars they manage to loose a whole lot more? Is that your argument?”

Ah, the silliness continues. My argument is that the Democrats are the ones who’ve been winning the critical wars while the Republicans have been diddling around with tiny little insignificant wars or losing bigger ones.

And, really, you want to argue that the Republicans would have won WWII with less than 10,000 casualties? Really? Cause I’ve got a bridge to sell you, if so.

“Southern Democrats”

Yep, the Southern Democrats were a pretty nasty bunch. They seem to have all left the Democratic Party now and gone to the GOP. So now they’re Southern Republicans and they’re still a pretty nasty bunch.

Guess who is going to be the next “Commander-In-Chief” of the United States Armed Forces on January 20th, 2009 — Barack Obama. He will take an oath to “protect and defend the constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic”. And do you know how he is going to do this? Murtha said it — “there is going to be less defense spending”. Gee, I wonder if its time to change the presidential oath to something like this — “protect and defend the special interest groups who put me in power so that I can get re-elected in 2012″.

““protect and defend the special interest groups who put me in power so that I can get re-elected in 2012″.”

Since those special interest groups comprise seemingly 52% of the American voting population, pleasing them seems like an eminently good idea.

Thunderhorse19 said “190,000 contractors should all be fired, and we could save $48 billion a year.”

How do you figure this will help? Who would do the jobs the contractors are now doing? It would take at least three times the number of GI’s to do these jobs. The contractors are doing the jobs necessary to rebuild Iraq and protecting our diplomats, while the military is trying to curb the violence. Yes, there are some areas where their jobs overlap; but, in the long run the military does what it does best and rebuilding a country is not their forte. It is true that a lot of money is wasted in military procurement. As a matter of fact, any venture the US government gets involved in becomes overpriced, paper burdened and amateurishly dictated. Your comment is one of the reasons why the government operates in this way. The politicians will react to uneducated and biased suggestions such as the one you provided. It is much easier to appease a few loudmouths as opposed to doing what is correct.

I have an idea. If Murtha gets his way, then lets get all the active duty, veterans and retirees to file a lawsuit in Federal court claiming that Murtha, Congress (both branches) and Obama have failed in their oath to “Protect” and “Defend” the constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Can also get them for failure to follow the constitution when it says that they will Provide for the Common Defense and Promote General Welfare. Murtha and the Democrats along with Obama wants to reword that to Provide for the Common Welfare and Promote Common Defense. Does anyone in Congress realize that Military spending provides jobs and such. Look what happen when Jimmy boy got in there and cut defense spending. Inflation went higher, larger unemployment rate and interest rates over 10%. If we allow them to do the same we are just plain stupid. Look at Murtha district, he called them rednecks and such and they still voted him in. They remind me of New Orleans and how they reelected Nagel to another term after what he did to them during the hurricanes. No intelligence.

“If Murtha gets his way, then lets get all the active duty, veterans and retirees to file a lawsuit in Federal court claiming that Murtha, Congress (both branches) and Obama have failed in their oath to “Protect” and “Defend” the constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domest”

The lawsuit against the Bush Administration for exactly the same thing was filed first.

That 52% couldn’t answer simple questions like what “contol” in Congress means. How about recognizing and heeding the other 48% who are eminently better informed and don’t get their knowledge mostly from the network news and the NYT?

“That 52% couldn’t answer simple questions like what “contol” in Congress means. How about recognizing and heeding the other 48% who are eminently better informed and don’t get their knowledge mostly from the network news and the NYT?”

Really? All 52% couldn’t answer those questions, and everyone of the 48% could? Gosh, that’s remarkable!

On the other hand the 46% (actual percentage who voted GOP) thought that McCain would be a good President and Palin would be a good VP, so the horrible lack of knowledge kind of balances out.

I love how everyone wants to “defend the country”, but the notion of a draft force is unthinkable! Give me a break from your drivel.
Someone mentions Vietnam as an example where the draft didn’t work– Duh! There were too many loopholes (college deferments ring a bell– Dick Cheney, Bill Clinton?). I will leave social secuity and medicare out of the picture and simply say that military expenditure is alarmingly out of control. Our flag officers have no reluctance to send everyone in uniform abroad for “the security of the country.” And most of you on this forum are drinking their Kool-Aid. Jack Murtha? He’s just a deviation from the reality you guys can’t seem to face: We don’t have the money to keep up this sham “War on Terror.” We are strung out and ripe for a body blow from any two-bit dictatorship or terrorist group out there with the guts to give us a kick in the crotch while we look elsewhere. Tell me I’m wrong, because I will laugh at you.

Total,
Maybe not all 48% thought McCain would be a good president and Palin a good VP but all thought they’d be better than the current dweebs. Let me see, oh, they’d be right.

Why are we discussing this Murtha dude who has discredited himself in every possible way? Just search “Murtha” in mil​.com and you’ll read him saying the exact opposite plenty of times. He’s got a column on why Gates needs to stop this rebalancing act and start building the military forces to what they need to be. Kick butt, build up the military, give them the weapons and people they need. Then he wants to cut personnel because the weapons cost a lot but he’s for the F-22 and dual buy in the tanker program for starters. In other words, he doesn’t know what the heck he’s talking about.

You don’t either GatodelSol — You’re wrong. Go ahead laugh but tell us where “elsewhere” is. If you’d study defense planning and budgeting a little and understood what funds are allocated where and why, you wouldn’t make statements like “alarmingly out of control.” Maybe misdirected or incorrectly prioritized and surely wasteful in places but sit down and talk with Bob Gates and you’ll find out how “in-control” it all really is.

Out of control = Jack Murtha (outside of funding airports for his district that is)

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