OMB Floats 5 Year Tanker Delay

OMB Floats 5 Year Tanker Delay

One of the oldest ploys in the budget wars is to cut a program you absolutely, positively know Congress will fund no matter what you do. You move money from that program to one you know is on shakier ground. Then, when Congress funds both programs you can protest that it’s something you really don’t need and is pulling money from more deserving programs. Voila! You have zee cake and eat it too!

That seems the most logical explanation for the Obama administration’s well leaked plans to delay the airborne tanker program by five years. There can be no other rationale explanation. This is the top priority of a remade Air Force, one run by a man who knows and loves tankers and other big planes that don’t shoot at stuff. This is the top priority of Transportation Command, the people who fly big heavy stuff to Afghanistan, Iraq and anywhere else it is needed. I think you’ll also find quite a bit of support for tankers from the COCOMS, who need them if they want to maintain global reach.

Unless the Air Force and everyone involved with tankers has been lying about how old and tired the planes are — remember the engine struts on the KC-135 E models are suffering from corrosion and senior Air Force officials wanted them retired by the end of last year — it is difficult to believe the country’s military can be effective without one of its most unique capabilities. No other country possesses the ability to refuel dozens of planes in the air virtually anywhere in the world.


My colleague Josh Rogin broke the news about the Obama administration’s plan to move the tankers out five years and kill the next generation bomber. The bomber has a tentative hold on life and losing its capabilities would be much less traumatic to the military than a tanker delay of five years.

Lawmakers are already expressing disbelief at the tanker decision. Josh’s story contains pithy comments from senators and congressmen to the effect that the tanker decision will not stand.

I spoke with Rep. Rick Larsen of Washington today during the LCS hearing. Larsen, a Democrat, has been a rational supporter of the tanker program, largely supporting Boeing’s efforts but also listening to the military and to his colleagues from states that would benefit from a Northrop win. “Unless something new and different has happened in the last four months, we still need a next generation tanker today, and not five years from now,” he said.

Take his comments, along with those lawmakers quoted in Josh’s story, and you get both a deep and clear bipartisan commitment to the tanker from Congress. We haven’t heard from Rep. Norm Dicks yet, the powerful Democratic appropriator who will push for tanker money come hell or high water. But add his voice to all those other lawmakers, add a dollop of outrage and concern from Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz and the folks at TransCom, and you’ve got a tanker program no matter what OMB may recommend in its budget. Unless, of course, the tankers really aren’t as bad off as the military has claimed…

If the Obama administration goes ahead with the decision to put the tanker program off for five years, it will have to provide detailed explanations to lawmakers and the public as to just what has changed in the last four months.

Join the Conversation

“nipartisan”? What do the Japs have to do with this affair? (ha, ha. yes, I know.)

Density,

Guilty guilty guilty. It’s fixed, thank you. And I still love ya!

The Air Force projects that KC-135 E and R models have lifetime flying hour limits of 36,000 and 39,000 hours, respectively. According to the Air Force, only a few KC-135s would reach these limits before 2040.The Air Force estimates that their current fleet of KC-135s have between 12,000 to 14,000 flying hours on them

The purported OMB position does raise a core question: in spite of the Obama commitment to change, this does not embrace much in technology innovation other than aspirational statements about the future of the planet;s eco sytstem, It would be a worthy effort to address what new programs, in general and in particular, merit generation or support. Because logistics and modernization are costly, new platforms can often perform key roles in providing both enhanced capability and sustainability. And without the tanker, the US Air Force which is facing significant downsizing will not be able to operate effectivley with what it is allowed to keep; a refuelable tanker able to operate significantly further from the fighter and bomber operational areas is INDISPENSIBLE for the operation of the force. I suppose it is much smarter to pay for modernixation of a very old fleet; I hope all who think so find 40 year commercial aircraft to fly on on a regular basis

Of course Congress would put money into the budget for a tanker. The USAF played this game to get more C-17s. I’ll give you two guesses what tanker will be funded if Congress drives the bus on this. If you guessed that it will be the big airbus, take another guess.

Five year delay could be a ploy to eliminate 767 from the competition. Will 767 line be viable to propose in 5 years? The huge push for the original tanker deal was to avoid a gap in 767 production.

A 5 year delay with no rational reason? You must be kidding. It will take Boing exactly that long to design and test the 777 Tanker. They couldn’t win with the relic 767 so Biden meets with his union buddies in Miami and finds out it will take, 1 year on strike, 4 years development and test, then presto, 5 year delay on Tanker. Makes perfect sense…

Today’s Non-Ethics Word: Boinginate
Pronunciation: \Bo-ing-i-nate\
Function: Verb
Etymology: North Western US & Boeing/Aeronovali/JADC Consortium
Date: 2008
Transitive verb
: to habitually lie, cheat, bribe or steal if you really, really want to win

Good Morning AMERICA, you are about to fall on your ceremonial sword. Delaying the tanker replacement 5 years does much more that most realize…but that is OK because AMERICA…YOU voted for them (Obama/Biden). This stellar decision is yet another example of having no clue as to what you should be doing. 50+ days into this Presidency and this President has spent (4.5 TRILLION); more money than anyone can fully understand or repay in untold lifetimes. This delay will only drive the cost of a new or replacement aircraft up so much that the buy (if it ever comes) will be for only half as many aircraft due to increased production costs. However, with the current spending philosophy, money is now no object. If more is needed…just go ahead and print it!

If the USAF gets into a pinch and need additional tanker support, they will always be able to contract with the Italians or the Japanese Air Forces as they will be enjoying their “new” tankers and will welcome the opportunity to broaden their refueling envelopes. If you are a religious individual, you should pray for the USA, if you are not religious and don’t know how to pray, perhaps it is time you learn, then practice practice practice!

Yes, it’s obvious the air refueling tankers are a top priority of the Air Force. I’m sure when a decision is finally made this year Mobile County will be where the tankers are built by Northrop Grumman/EADS. This project is too important to delay and it will benefit the entire Gulf Coast-Alabama, Mississippi, Florida. Check out GulfCoastAerospaceandDefense​.com to learn more about the A&D assets in Northwest Florida alone, which has backed the project in Mobile along with Mississippi.

Buy both platforms and buy them now! It is the only course of action that makes any sense. Both are in the early stages of production…try them…fly them and then decide upon the mix of medium, large and potentially very large (777 later) options for the long term. Boeing has put great effort into resistance just to keep their current US airframe monopoly intact.

The entire Southeast and ultimately our economy benefit from having the return of a second major airframe manufacturer to the US. The AF benefits by having the opportunity to have a scaled “try before you buy” fly-off in real world scenarios.

The country benefits from a jobs and exports standpoint because manufacturing will ultimately not be limited to Tankers. A cargo derivative will follow and commercial passenger work will not be far behind (hence the Boeing panic). Building more aircraft of differing types here in the US is attractive to the EADS subcontractor from a financial (exchange rate) standpoint.

Since they are both commercially derived, the argument about increased support costs for the 2 platforms is filled with more feathers than meat. Competition controls cost better than any bureaucrat.

Bob…can I get an itemized breakdown of that $4.5 trillion dollars you mentioned?
Are you sure you didn’t mean “gazillion”? Since you are obviously just making up numbers, you should go for the “gazillion”…sounds much bigger and scarier.

Ahh the new budget will have ACORN build the tanker. But we only get one so Obama can give a speeck in front of it.

Thanks for the link Colin, but I assure you it was NOT leaked by the administration. I got the info the old fashioned way, by digging it up myself. Otherwise, very interesting piece.

Josh

For Mr. Jason Clark;

Sir…

In trying to respond to your remark in a timely fashion and still share the data that I have been following I offer the links below. There is much more available should YOU care to look for it.

In the first “link” you will note the Senate is already gearing up for the 2nd round of the stimulus package. All indications now reflect that will sail through the approval cycle and questions are being asked if the 3.4 TRILLION will be enough. Estimates from the financial wizards are now showing it will NOT and the figure will be more like 4.7 TRILLION if the President’s plan is to be followed.

You also asked for a breakdown of the expenditures…see the second “Link” provided as it is the official package. They offer no total figure but I am sure if you are really that interested, you will come up with a close estimate. Please remember, from the President down through the Speaker of the House and select members of the Senate, are all calling for more money (than the now approved 7.8 BILLION) without any explanation as to where these funds are originating or how they will be repaid.

Sir, if you were truly interested, you would be following these actions as I am and would see that these figures of TRILLIONS of dollars are not a pipedream but will soon be a reality as this Administration has been in place only 50+ days and they are not even warmed up spending yet. You may make light of this issue but YOU Sir, along with the rest of the American taxpayers for generations to come will be saddled with the bill for repayment. Once you realize it, perhaps your attitude will change.

Good Day…

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http://​frwebgate​.access​.gpo​.gov/​c​g​i​-​b​i​n​/​g​e​t​d​o​c​.​c​g​i​?​d​b​n​a​m​e​=​1​1​1​_​c​o​n​g​_​b​i​l​l​s​&​a​m​p​;​d​o​c​i​d​=​f​:​h​1​e​n​r​.​pdf

“If you are a religious individual, you should pray for the USA, if you are not religious and don’t know how to pray, perhaps it is time you learn, then practice practice practice”

xxxxx

Crack me up like an earthquake. We’ve just come away from 8 yrs of the right’s praying and believing and look where it got us. If God likes the right so much, how come he/she’s so p*ssed at them?

Hearing this story is a good sigh of relief. Frankly, I am glad that movement to control how spending is done on Military Projects. I have seen years and years of abuse. From thousands of requirements for a simple function to working around ITAR requirements. It’s really a mess. I really think that this delay will generate different ways of development. For one, we know that the Boeing concept is based upon the 767; A refitted aircraft.

So why should a refitted aircraft concept be only on a 767? What if the kit to refit was capable of fitting on both 767 or A320? Maybe fit on other variations of aircrafts? Doesn’t mean that Boeing or Airbus are the only companies that can come up with this solution. Besides, if a company can come up with a solution, guess what? The next generation is done because what is more versatile than converting any aircraft to a tanker?

That to me is a critical military requirement that shouldn’t be broken in to 100,000 individual requirements that will expand a program into years.

A five year delay makes perfect sense. All military aircraft will be green and run on solar power by then. We may never need a tanker at all.

Wil Watkins
Insightful. Aviation electronics (avionics) will be passe too as we phase in cool and efficient green gremlins to power our systems.

As many of you may not know the fall or should i say this tanker “delay” will not only cost more money in the long run, but also have a dramatic effect on the economy. Some times you have to spend a little to make a big impact.

We(US)need to have good jobs to pull our country out of this recession and our military need good, well manufractured and reliable aircraft, to keep our homes safe.This “program” will create thousands of jobs and help many families.

Also as a small note i work on aircraft and i work in the military i can tell you just how important this “progam” really is. I don’t like putting my bothers in arms on an airplane that is to old and poorly designed to be flying safely and to preform the way it did 20 plus years ago.

Buying a large new fleet of tankers at this time seems like the wrong idea. Sure, the old ones are getting worn out but we ciuld cut their use by many hours. Using simulators for currency would save many hours and fuel. Just go to any city around a tanker base and you will see tankers shooting touch and go’s by the hour every day. Simulators are excellent tools, so good that the first time most first officers ever get into a new type, they are flying right seat and are proficient. I have flown the multi-axis simulators and they are real flying, believe me. You can sweat just as much after an hour of IFR as if it were a real plane.

When unmanned tanker refueling testing is working so well, we just might be able to build big safe ones very soon. They cost a lot less per unit.

Old Pilot you are wrong, totally wrong, EADS and NG have a capable plane that will stimulate the economy too. We need Global Reach and Power now more than ever and the 767 will not do what the KC-45 will. Get over it Boeing, you cheated and lied in the past, your employees went to jail. I ask you if you had work done on your home and the contractor over billed you, would you invite them back to do more work? Penalties need to be made and Boeing should be punished for the fraud they got caught trying to pass off on to the people of America. Procurement is supposed to protect the American public and get us the best bang for the buck, EADS and NG and teh KC-45 are just that. Please don’t give me the Buy American crap either, the 767 is not all American and Boeing has had Japan develop and design the 787 wings totally, for the first time ever no American engineering, where is Norm Dicks and his voice of outrage at that. Get the USAF the tanker now and move on…People in Alabama will benifit and maybe next time Boeing and Dicks will play by the rules…Go to Wal Mart or any store and show me American made goods, just not going to happen in the 21st Century, something that you ought to realize Old Pilot, we’re in the 21st Century and 1950 era tankers and bombers just don’t cut it anymore…

Grow a set! This will be over in 4 to 8 and we will get back to center! The KC-135 has a sound history and will continue to provide outstanding support around the world. We have bigger fish to fry. You can’t swing a dead cat over or around your head with hitting many critical issues facing our military.

A tanker is a modified commercial airliner. The mods needed are a tank in the cargo compartment, a boom and/or drogue operator, the boom and/or drogue(s), and the necessary extra piping and electrical installation. Throw in the additional software for the flight computers. The reality is that this “bird” is nothing fancy. You can build it whenever you want it. The question is how many flight hours are remaining in the existing fleet and do you have enough assets to put them everywhere you need them to operate, plus the jets needed in training pilots and the number of jets that would be in major maintenance or modifications at any given time. So the primary question becomes a matter of politics — do you have the money to buy additional tankers and where do you want to spend that money? Obama is following the path of Bush who got it from Clinton. The Grinch that keeps blocking the path is McCain. Boeing has been trying to save the 767 line for many years. The KC-10 is another example of saving a production line for a few more years. Boeing/MacD has been saving the C-17 line since 1982 when they won the CX contract but couldn’t deliver. That’s how Lockheed got 50 more C-5, the B model, in 1983. By 1989 all 50 were delivered while the first C-17 went into flight test. Aeroplanes is an amazing industry of builders, politicians, Pentagon and the Air Force.

Reader Bob,I agree 100% of what you stated. I am so sick of this asinine thinking of Obama/Biden, Pelosi, Reid, and all the other dumb idiots who make up our congress. I wish we could throw the whole damn bunch out of office, and send them to Iran. 51 days of this so called presidency, and bill after bill gets passed. This man is ruining our country, our economy, our future generations of children to come. And don’t get me started on Gitmo!! How dare this man declare he is going to shut down a camp that houses terrible terrorists.
And then to say they will be dealt with in civil courts, not military. This Obama is a really scary, evil person. From the first time I heard his name, read about his connections to radical people, that he didn’t really do anything helpful for anyone, but himself, I felt that stab of fear in my heart. And when people started talking about him like he was some kind of Messiah, that fear consumed my whole being. May God help us and Bless The Real United States of America!!

JSF Mike, not sure if McCain is in a position to “block” anything anymore. He can make noise, but that’s about it. I don’t think the Republicans could come close to blocking a defense bill in the Senate that contained money for the tanker–especially a Boeing plane. I can see two defections from the Kansas delegation immediately.

Every day I go to work at a PDM maintenance line for the 135’s. They’re old. They’re corroded. They’re falling apart. I can’t even begin to describe all of the major structrual repairs I and my coworkers have to do on a daily basis to keep this airframe safe for use. It’s done it’s duty and it’s time for it to be retired. Boeing’s (I’m not a fan mind you) has been in the tanker business since the beginning. I see no reason why they shouldn’t be considered for any application of aireal refueling.
No major American military hardware should have major assemblies made in any Euorpean country.
We should be following the old “Wal-Mart way” of buying American. They don’t do it now, but they used to and as an American, you should support each and every American manafacturer for military hardward that will be used by and support Amercian fighting men and women. To hell with EADS and the rest of Europe. As a nation, the United States has done very well attempting to say out of Europe (we’ve done well by getting involved as well). We’ve also done well by keeping European nations out of our busineess (and military). If Northrop/Grumman want’s do develop a tanker, they should do it on their own. If they dont have the resources to do so, they should leave the tanker to the people who do.
Congress has the responsiblity to ensure that the population of MY country is save by providing the military with the resources they need when they need them. It’s high time that our legislators remember the oath they took and start doing the jobs that they were sent to Washington DC to do.
If they refuese to “…provide for the common defence…” then they need to be replaced immediately.

It’s job security for those of us who perform pdm maintenance on the 135, besides I want to but the new dodge challenger, so keep delaying the new tanker.Love the overtime we’re getting.

buy…not but

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