- Truth — Israelis have killed men, women, and children. Part of the problem when you are fighting a war of survival is that when you are surrounded by enemies it is hard not to kill innocents.

- Truth — The Israeli flag does have two blue lines representing the Ephrates and Nile rivers. Jews and Christians believe God’s word (the Bible — which even Muhamed claimed inspiration from) which states that all the land between the two rivers belongs to the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob — the Jews.

- Half-Truth — The US does support Israel. Israel is the ONLY democratic government in that area. However the US also supports Egypt — Interestingly Egypt and Israel consume 1/3 of ALL US foreign aid. According to one set of figures I saw http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/politics/us-foreign-aid.htm Israel does receive more than Egypt. However Egypt isn’t surrounded by people who hate and plot her destruction.

- False — “here in Egypt we have christians and jews and we dont kill them we love like bros with no diffrence ” — tell that to the Coptic (Christian) girls kidnapped, raped, forcibly converted and married to Muslim men. Which when it went through Egyptian courts, Islamic judges said that it was appropriate. http://www.copts4freedom.com/egyptelections.htm

Yeah, that’s the kind of “love like bros” I would rather not have in the USA.

- Consider the countries in the Middle East. All the countries except Israel have a strong central leader. Many of the people in these areas claim descent from Abraham through Ishmael, who according to the Bible was an “angry man”.

Genesis 11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.

12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

There is a saying “an apple doesn’t fall far from the tree” — which means that children take after their parents. There’s a reason that saying exists.

They didnt count on us buying them from them and creating a relationship with them.

Their populus are uneducated, militant, religous zealots bent on the destruction of Jews and Christians. The House of Saud is a moderate class of highly educated business men with an abilty to supress uprisings and keep anti-american rhetoric to just that… rhetoric.

Pushing for a republic (like the US), or a more dangerous option of pure democratcy, was one of the major mistakes ever made in the middle east. NEVER suggest a populus should make their own decisions when their entire education system is based on religious law that aggressively calls for the extermination and subgegation of “inferior” religions. The Israelies knew/know this, and after the election of Hamass in Palastinian elections, everyone else should recognize it as well.

“Democratcy” should not be the goal of international policy… peace should be. There is a reason America is not a democratcy… the rule of law and fundamental protection for OTHERS rights and safety ARE important. We are a republic ruled by law with checks and balances… anarchy, mobs, and communism doesn’t work. What makes you think a populus with a CULTURE of jewish hatred would EVER vote for peace.

The only peace Muslim extreamists want, is one of 100% capitulation and conversion. It’s “ala’s will” after all. :-/

As a side note, isn’t it interesting how the conflicts in the middle east are based off religion?

“Didn’t the Israelis pretty much admit that they had nukes last year? Not a surprise at all. I don’t think they steal our secrets, I suspect they are given our secrets.”

TOUCHE!!!!!!!!

“Bill,

The fact of Israel possessing nukes is NOT a surprise. What is a surprise is an official US document confirming the fact. Our official policy has always been to live in the gray world where no one confirms or denies. Also, our law forbids providing aid to states that do what Israel did….”

Grey world? I heard that before, but I got to tell you, in the real world, that makes no sense.

1: Israel and all Jewish people have the right to exist.

2: As a result of “EARTH; SHALL NOT COVER THE BLOODS OF THE SIX MILLION MURDERED JEWS UNTIL THE END OF ALL GENERATIONS.”, and the insistence of some Arabs and organized Islamic states & organizations that Jews & Israel needs to be exterminated, some Jews and Israel believe that have a right to pursue any military option available.

An example of this is the use of white phosphorus (WP) shells in areas of Gaza that had high civilian populations. (If you’re not familiar of the devastation of this weapon, please investigate it on-line). No matter how the Israeli’s & their apologists try to spin this, there is no way that this was an anti-military action. In Gaza, the Israeli “Defense” Force (IDF) airburst this terror weapon so that it lofted down, indiscriminately killing innocent women & children in the guise of being used against Hamas fighters. Of course, radical Zionists and their radical Rabbi’s believe that any dead Palestinian is a good Palestinian, since they could not morph into a suicide bomber or develop into an armed Hamas supporter.

I’m not making this sh*t up! Just read the expose’s about the IDF’s outright murder of Palestine innocents, along with other abuses, coming out of the IDF’s own Academy & Israeli news releases.

Another example of this arrogance was the deadly assault by Israel on the US navy intelligence vessel, the USS Liberty. Even though the Liberty was clearly flying the American flag, and ultra-urgent communications were sent to all levels of Israel’s political & military structure to halt these unwarrented, illegal & immoral attacks, the IDF continued the assault. To this day, Israel has NEVER apologized or given a truthful reason for these attacks. And why do less than 10% (a generous estimate on my part) of US citizens even know about this atrocity? BECAUSE IT WAS ISRAEL! Did it make headline news even though more Americans died in this attack than occured in the North Korean seizure of the USS Pueblo? No. However the USS Pueblo seizure had an expotentially higher amount of news exposure, like that of the Iran hostage story.

A-Z, I quoted you to make this point.…granted Hitler, Himmler & Heydrich, et al, tried to systematically exterminate as may Jews as possible, as the rest of the world stood by and let this horror occur. But over TWELVE million souls were exterminated by the SS in the concentration camps. What about the forgotten six million? Why don’t we hear an outcry of “never again” for them? What about the 25 million Russians who died in WW II, many of them being innocent men, women & children? How come Israel hasn’t been at the forefront of organizing outrage & action for the atrocities that occured in Cambodia, Rwanda and presently occuring in Darfur? This isn’t a selective criticism of just Israel & some Jews, since all the nations of the world has allowed these tradgedies to happen! But I would think that a nation & people whose rallying cry was “never again”, whose many of it’s people had experienced the effects of atrocities first hand or in their family history, would stand by idly by (like the rest of the world did when the Nazi’s liquidated as many Jews as they could), while these horrors occured? What if it had been Jews that had been murdered & dispossessed?

And finally, all you Israeli apologists who have & will post on this site, how can you & some of the Israeli people stand idly by as WP, Merkura tank & machine gun shells and Hellfire missles be used indiscriminately in areas of high concention of civilians? SHAME ON YOU, those of you who do! And shame on those of us in the US of A who have made this possible by its funding of the IDF.

And before you use twisted logic such as the terror bombing of Dresden & Tokyo, the US military’s policy in Iraq or the Palestinian’s rocket attacks as some sort of rationale for this shameful behavior, please remember that one wrong does not justify another’s (more horrible) wrong.

However, I am thankful for this report as it has taught me about the Symington Amendment of 1976. I encourage everyone to write their elective official with the DEMAND that the US stop funding the IDF based on the requirements of this law. If your officials refuse to act on this, organize a grassroots groundswell against them…threaten to organize a movement to impeach them for not complying with Congressional LAW! Write letters to the editorial pages of your newspapers. Do SOMETHING more than simply exchanging barbs on this (or other) websites.

BTW, these actions will not jeopardize Israel’s existance. Their military superiority in all facets of making war are secure in the decades to come. It simply would require Israel to pay, in total, for its war machine. I would not advocate these actions if I thought for one moment that it would hinder Israel’s survival.

And please don’t believe Ahmadinajad’s threat to wipe Israel off the map. It is simply for regional political currency that he says this (and he naively makes Israel’s position for justifying any military action it decides to launch even stronger). I don’t think that any leader would launch a nuclear attack on Israel with the certainty of a retaliation of 200–400 nuclear missle warheads.

3: Finally, if he’s to be believed, Dr. Carl Sagan postulated that it would take the minimum of 100 nuclear explosions to create a “nuclear winter” on our planet. With 200–400 nuclear warheads & the Samson Option, we won’t have to worry about global warming if Israel feels overwhelmingly threatened.

It is just religious fanaticism in the opposite direction.

Israel is a made up place this time around. GOD will bless Israel, and its supporters, but it is not man’s job to stand up a nation. That sounds to me like looking for a handout or salvation by works.