Comments on: FCS Vehicle Dies In Days http://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/05/12/fcs-vehicle-dies-in-days/ Online Defense and Acquisition Journal Thu, 09 Feb 2012 11:06:37 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: RJhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/05/12/fcs-vehicle-dies-in-days/#comment-8567 RJ Wed, 27 May 2009 18:18:21 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=6364#comment-8567 Funny! I was on the Crusader Program (United Defense now BAE) when the Secratary Of Defense cut that now the Secratary Of Defense cuts the NLOC that the same plant in Minneapolis was buuilding. I guess the Secrataries don't like MN! Funny! I was on the Crusader Program (United Defense now BAE) when the Secratary Of Defense cut that now the Secratary Of Defense cuts the NLOC that the same plant in Minneapolis was buuilding. I guess the Secrataries don’t like MN!

]]> By: Stevehttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/05/12/fcs-vehicle-dies-in-days/#comment-8478 Steve Sun, 24 May 2009 03:51:36 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=6364#comment-8478 Boots take and hold territory. Lethality in combat is best measured by "how much" can be delivered by the infantry over the long term. All these "Billy G. Wihizbang" systems are great. Great until they break, great until well into their useful service life, maintenance costs far exceed initial procurement costs. The costs of these systems are taken out of the hide of grunts on the ground. In protracted combat such as Irag, we need more troops. I'll take a light, airlift (read helicopter) mobile, 105 battery to support me. I still like the all weather, any hour, day or night, weapons systems that are fueled with MRE's, moleskin, and water. Boots take and hold territory. Lethality in combat is best measured by “how much” can be delivered by the infantry over the long term. All these “Billy G. Wihizbang” systems are great. Great until they break, great until well into their useful service life, maintenance costs far exceed initial procurement costs. The costs of these systems are taken out of the hide of grunts on the ground. In protracted combat such as Irag, we need more troops. I’ll take a light, airlift (read helicopter) mobile, 105 battery to support me. I still like the all weather, any hour, day or night, weapons systems that are fueled with MRE’s, moleskin, and water.

]]> By: Bill Rhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/05/12/fcs-vehicle-dies-in-days/#comment-8471 Bill R Sat, 23 May 2009 13:09:20 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=6364#comment-8471 Fascinating that they left the door ajar for offshore suppliers. One would think that with Detroit in such a shambles, they would structure this thing to cut out the Germans and the French. SpzH 2000 has been in the field for years and the Puma infantry fighting vehicle is starting to be fielded this year. And with such an emphasis on green technology, one would have thought that the MGV hybrid engine would have counted for something. It really is a pretty sweet engine, powerful and fuel efficient. There is plenty to rage about on this, but cancelling NLOS-C is the unkindest cut of all - Rummy cancelled Crusader and a pile of other programs to fund FCS. Now the self-propelled howitzer gets cancelled AGAIN after Congress put in the mandate to build the thing, and they reprogrammed funds to accelerate its schedule ?Admiral Sestak just hit the nail right on the head when Gates testified to HASC this week. Gates is doing to the Army what Rumsfeld would have done if it were not for 9/11. These guys idea of "transformation" is put money into special ops, then put more money into special ops, and - did we forget to put all the money into special ops ? But, by golly, we can do just fine schlepping things around in C-130s, don't need no stinkin' light cargo aircraft...or more C-17s.Hail, to the Once And Future Combat Systems. Our nation and its soldiers really need you - like yesterday - and someday some loved one wearing a green beret on a battlefield far away will send out a call for the Cavalry - and wait three months for the ships to arrive. Fascinating that they left the door ajar for offshore suppliers. One would think that with Detroit in such a shambles, they would structure this thing to cut out the Germans and the French. SpzH 2000 has been in the field for years and the Puma infantry fighting vehicle is starting to be fielded this year. And with such an emphasis on green technology, one would have thought that the MGV hybrid engine would have counted for something. It really is a pretty sweet engine, powerful and fuel efficient. There is plenty to rage about on this, but cancelling NLOS-C is the unkindest cut of all — Rummy cancelled Crusader and a pile of other programs to fund FCS. Now the self-propelled howitzer gets cancelled AGAIN after Congress put in the mandate to build the thing, and they reprogrammed funds to accelerate its schedule ?

Admiral Sestak just hit the nail right on the head when Gates testified to HASC this week. Gates is doing to the Army what Rumsfeld would have done if it were not for 9/11. These guys idea of “transformation” is put money into special ops, then put more money into special ops, and — did we forget to put all the money into special ops ? But, by golly, we can do just fine schlepping things around in C-130s, don’t need no stinkin’ light cargo aircraft…or more C-17s.

Hail, to the Once And Future Combat Systems. Our nation and its soldiers really need you — like yesterday — and someday some loved one wearing a green beret on a battlefield far away will send out a call for the Cavalry — and wait three months for the ships to arrive.

]]> By: rorou1972http://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/05/12/fcs-vehicle-dies-in-days/#comment-8465 rorou1972 Sat, 23 May 2009 09:10:54 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=6364#comment-8465 I can say with experience on the buffalo, the stryker, the rg38, the husky all built overseas and very effective equipment. However things like the IHMEE are very problematic. Lack of parts, lack of support. It's like ADI (australian defense industries) made the IHMEE wheeled excavator and sold the product with very minimal support. Instead of running overseas, check with the companies that have equipment fielded into the system already so there's already parts in the system (companies such as caterpillar or gdls). How easy do you think it will be to obtain parts for a boeing vehicle??? I can say with experience on the buffalo, the stryker, the rg38, the husky all built overseas and very effective equipment. However things like the IHMEE are very problematic. Lack of parts, lack of support. It’s like ADI (australian defense industries) made the IHMEE wheeled excavator and sold the product with very minimal support. Instead of running overseas, check with the companies that have equipment fielded into the system already so there’s already parts in the system (companies such as caterpillar or gdls). How easy do you think it will be to obtain parts for a boeing vehicle???

]]> By: Sgt Gublerhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/05/12/fcs-vehicle-dies-in-days/#comment-8461 Sgt Gubler Sat, 23 May 2009 04:24:18 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=6364#comment-8461 I for one am glad they are cancelling the FCS program. I dont think all the gee-whiz star wars crap is the appropriate way to go for vehicle defense. In comparing the two extremes as far as cannon artillery goes, you have the Crusader on one end and the NLOS-C on the other. The Crusader is too heavy and bulky, and the NLOS-C is way too light and thin skinned (plus it has less range than a currently fielded Paladin howitzer!!). We need a compromise between the 2 extremes! And we need it now, not in another 10 years. I for one am glad they are cancelling the FCS program. I dont think all the gee-whiz star wars crap is the appropriate way to go for vehicle defense. In comparing the two extremes as far as cannon artillery goes, you have the Crusader on one end and the NLOS-C on the other.
The Crusader is too heavy and bulky, and the NLOS-C is way too light and thin skinned (plus it has less range than a currently fielded Paladin howitzer!!). We need a compromise between the 2 extremes! And we need it now, not in another 10 years.

]]> By: wtpworrierhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/05/12/fcs-vehicle-dies-in-days/#comment-8353 wtpworrier Wed, 20 May 2009 16:57:54 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=6364#comment-8353 "Army Secretary Pete Geren also clarified one point that is sure to raise the hackles of Sen. James Inhofe — the Non Line of Sight Cannon was killed as well. Inhofe had the NLOC made a separate program in large part to protect it from any cuts made to FCS. But Defense Secretary Robert Gates made the decision that killing MGV also meant killing the NLOS-C, Geren said today."The picture above looks like a Arty piece, I can't tell if it's a 155 or a 110. "Non line of sight" what the H-ll is that suppose to mean?, or better yet, who the H-ll are they trying to fool? Just call it what it is, "Indirect Fire", that means you can't see the target you are shooting at, you use grid coordinates to hit the target. I got to tell you though, I never like this this thing, mabe because I am old fashioned or mabe it's because this thing just cost to much money, the money you spend on one of these things you can buy mabe two MLRS. What I really like to see is full body armour for the troops, with weapon integration with body protection, well....may be not for another hundred years but, you get the picture. “Army Secretary Pete Geren also clarified one point that is sure to raise the hackles of Sen. James Inhofe — the Non Line of Sight Cannon was killed as well. Inhofe had the NLOC made a separate program in large part to protect it from any cuts made to FCS. But Defense Secretary Robert Gates made the decision that killing MGV also meant killing the NLOS-C, Geren said today.”

The picture above looks like a Arty piece, I can’t tell if it’s a 155 or a 110. “Non line of sight” what the H-ll is that suppose to mean?, or better yet, who the H-ll are they trying to fool? Just call it what it is, “Indirect Fire”, that means you can’t see the target you are shooting at, you use grid coordinates to hit the target. I got to tell you though, I never like this this thing, mabe because I am old fashioned or mabe it’s because this thing just cost to much money, the money you spend on one of these things you can buy mabe two MLRS. What I really like to see is full body armour for the troops, with weapon integration with body protection, well.…may be not for another hundred years but, you get the picture.

]]> By: Jakes Louwhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/05/12/fcs-vehicle-dies-in-days/#comment-8340 Jakes Louw Wed, 20 May 2009 05:56:51 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=6364#comment-8340 Go with Andy and buy the South African kit: you're using a lot of the stuff already (RG33, etc), and the 155mm and 105mm howitzers are the best in the world. Just ask the Cubans..... www.denel.co.za They actually SUPPLY Germany with ammo and technology based on the partnership with Rheinmettal and Zeiss optics. Kit is all battle-proven and designed for low-maintenance but hi performance. Go with Andy and buy the South African kit: you’re using a lot of the stuff already (RG33, etc), and the 155mm and 105mm howitzers are the best in the world. Just ask the Cubans.….
http://www.denel.co.za
They actually SUPPLY Germany with ammo and technology based on the partnership with Rheinmettal and Zeiss optics.
Kit is all battle-proven and designed for low-maintenance but hi performance.

]]> By: Northern cousinhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/05/12/fcs-vehicle-dies-in-days/#comment-8337 Northern cousin Wed, 20 May 2009 02:41:18 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=6364#comment-8337 Obviously they are taking their lead from what the Canadian Liberal Party accomplished with the Canadian Forces...attempting to please the tofu eayers and tree huggers by emasculation core capabilities, your tech advantadge future will include walking to work in civvies so as not to offend the delicate sensibilities of the local populace.What should have happened is The FCV (including N-LOS) were fully funded and able to be modified to rail gun when appropriate. This funding could have been accomplished by selling off a thousand or so Abrams. That leaves what about another 4500? Obviously they are taking their lead from what the Canadian Liberal Party accomplished with the Canadian Forces…attempting to please the tofu eayers and tree huggers by emasculation core capabilities, your tech advantadge future will include walking to work in civvies so as not to offend the delicate sensibilities of the local populace.

What should have happened is The FCV (including N-LOS) were fully funded and able to be modified to rail gun when appropriate. This funding could have been accomplished by selling off a thousand or so Abrams. That leaves what about another 4500?

]]> By: Cousin Davehttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/05/12/fcs-vehicle-dies-in-days/#comment-8293 Cousin Dave Tue, 19 May 2009 00:41:08 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=6364#comment-8293 Surprise, surprise folks! Gates announced today that the entire FCS program -- not just the MGV portion -- is terminated, and as far as his office is concerned, it's effective immediately. I work on FCS and I'm expecting to see a stop-work in the next day or two, followed shortly thereafter by a pink slip. FCS supporters were double-crossed by the SecDef. This had to be the plan all along. It's part of the Obama administration's long-range plan to Carterize the military. Surprise, surprise folks! Gates announced today that the entire FCS program — not just the MGV portion — is terminated, and as far as his office is concerned, it’s effective immediately. I work on FCS and I’m expecting to see a stop-work in the next day or two, followed shortly thereafter by a pink slip. FCS supporters were double-crossed by the SecDef. This had to be the plan all along. It’s part of the Obama administration’s long-range plan to Carterize the military.

]]> By: Decisionshttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/05/12/fcs-vehicle-dies-in-days/#comment-8289 Decisions Mon, 18 May 2009 20:18:13 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=6364#comment-8289 To my knowledge the NLOS-C and other MGV variants are still being worked on from an engineering and design point of view. I wonder if this work will stop in the near future or if it will last through the summer while Congress does it's thing with the budget??? Are there any plans for an offial stop-work order? I read a little about an acquisition decision memo that is expected this week. Not sure what that would entail though. Any insight is appreciated... Thanks! To my knowledge the NLOS-C and other MGV variants are still being worked on from an engineering and design point of view. I wonder if this work will stop in the near future or if it will last through the summer while Congress does it’s thing with the budget??? Are there any plans for an offial stop-work order? I read a little about an acquisition decision memo that is expected this week. Not sure what that would entail though. Any insight is appreciated… Thanks!

]]> By: Colin Clarkhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/05/12/fcs-vehicle-dies-in-days/#comment-8287 Colin Clark Mon, 18 May 2009 19:41:03 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=6364#comment-8287 The cannon and only the cannon will still be worked on to keep the technology alive. Note the $58 million figure. That's probably enough to fire some shells from a test cannon at Aberdeen and continue to gather test data. Nothing more. The cannon and only the cannon will still be worked on to keep the technology alive. Note the $58 million figure. That’s probably enough to fire some shells from a test cannon at Aberdeen and continue to gather test data. Nothing more.

]]> By: SDhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/05/12/fcs-vehicle-dies-in-days/#comment-8286 SD Mon, 18 May 2009 19:19:59 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=6364#comment-8286 Colin, can you clarify, "the cannon will still get worked on...". What exactly does that mean? Thanks. Colin, can you clarify, “the cannon will still get worked on…”. What exactly does that mean? Thanks.

]]> By: Colin Clarkhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/05/12/fcs-vehicle-dies-in-days/#comment-8285 Colin Clark Mon, 18 May 2009 19:13:08 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=6364#comment-8285 NLOS-C Lives?, It does not live, according to Army Secretary Geren, who told the Senate Appropriation defense subcommittee that, as my story says. The cannon itself will still get worked on, but not the combat system. NLOS-C Lives?,
It does not live, according to Army Secretary Geren, who told the Senate Appropriation defense subcommittee that, as my story says. The cannon itself will still get worked on, but not the combat system.

]]> By: ChuckLhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/05/12/fcs-vehicle-dies-in-days/#comment-8283 ChuckL Mon, 18 May 2009 18:12:23 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=6364#comment-8283 DoubleL, Gates is fighting the next war according to the rules of the current one, but with half the resources. DoubleL,
Gates is fighting the next war according to the rules of the current one, but with half the resources.

]]> By: ChuckLhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/05/12/fcs-vehicle-dies-in-days/#comment-8282 ChuckL Mon, 18 May 2009 18:08:48 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=6364#comment-8282 Congress can always use a "Pork Project" or an "earmark" to build F-22s and other equipment if the DOD won't request it. Congress can always use a “Pork Project” or an “earmark” to build F-22s and other equipment if the DOD won’t request it.

]]> By: NLOS-C Lives?http://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/05/12/fcs-vehicle-dies-in-days/#comment-8270 NLOS-C Lives? Mon, 18 May 2009 15:01:59 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=6364#comment-8270 http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4094484Never heard NLOS-C get terminated last week. Now this came out today??? Any info regarding this info Colin? http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4094484

Never heard NLOS-C get terminated last week. Now this came out today??? Any info regarding this info Colin?

]]> By: Alhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/05/12/fcs-vehicle-dies-in-days/#comment-8252 Al Sun, 17 May 2009 13:55:20 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=6364#comment-8252 Sorry to hear that the NLOS-C will be scrapped. Maybe a different version will emerge in future years? For the time being it looks like the Stryker, HUMVV and MRAP with advanced armor / suspension and power trains (GM/Chrysler?) upgrades will take the lead.The digital battlefield will have to wait for the old fashion shoot and scoot technology to fade away. The digital structure may take more cost and time to manifest, and every second counts when you are under armor. The FCS systems lacked the programmatic progress so DoD wielded the axe man! Sorry to hear that the NLOS-C will be scrapped. Maybe a different version will emerge in future years? For the time being it looks like the Stryker, HUMVV and MRAP with advanced armor / suspension and power trains (GM/Chrysler?) upgrades will take the lead.

The digital battlefield will have to wait for the old fashion shoot and scoot technology to fade away. The digital structure may take more cost and time to manifest, and every second counts when you are under armor. The FCS systems lacked the programmatic progress so DoD wielded the axe man!

]]> By: SGT Thomashttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/05/12/fcs-vehicle-dies-in-days/#comment-8206 SGT Thomas Fri, 15 May 2009 18:33:41 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=6364#comment-8206 Scathsealgaire, Gotcha Lima Charlie sir... and i do agree with ya there, although from one of the issues that they found with the Bradley was the fire supression system wasnt a issue. they (the media) had said that it failed multipule times when in fact it did fail, AFTER the vehicle was hit 7 times with an RPG-7. If you hit anything 7 times with a HEAT round, something is going to fail!...LOL.. Scathsealgaire, Gotcha Lima Charlie sir… and i do agree with ya there, although from one of the issues that they found with the Bradley was the fire supression system wasnt a issue. they (the media) had said that it failed multipule times when in fact it did fail, AFTER the vehicle was hit 7 times with an RPG-7. If you hit anything 7 times with a HEAT round, something is going to fail!…LOL..

]]> By: K.Chaohttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/05/12/fcs-vehicle-dies-in-days/#comment-8196 K.Chao Fri, 15 May 2009 17:21:02 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=6364#comment-8196 I think we should give the CV-90 a hard look. It already has all the cariants we might want to incorporate. It is modular in armor. Active protection can be added. I think we should give the CV-90 a hard look. It already has all the cariants we might want to incorporate. It is modular in armor. Active protection can be added.

]]> By: geraldhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/05/12/fcs-vehicle-dies-in-days/#comment-8193 gerald Fri, 15 May 2009 15:09:36 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=6364#comment-8193 Ya well someone needs to get the requirements straight... the NLOS is apparently too delicate (cant take ied hits)while mobile and the crusader was too big and bulky and too much armor and not mobile enough... you got to realize the tradoffss.... in any effect we are wasting money on R+ D with no end result. if anything make up your mind so the warfighters have something! Ya well someone needs to get the requirements straight… the NLOS is apparently too delicate (cant take ied hits)while mobile and the crusader was too big and bulky and too much armor and not mobile enough… you got to realize the tradoffss.… in any effect we are wasting money on R+ D with no end result. if anything make up your mind so the warfighters have something!

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