Comments on: New Guns Soon for V-22s

By: jayaero

jayaero — Fri, 22 May 2009 00:20:28 +0000

Years ago in “Proceedings” magazine there was an article where the premise was: Why the Osprey? The writers position was that it was too fast for conventional helicopter escort, and flew too low for Harrier escort. The Osprey is unpressurized in the back.

The only possible solution to the issue was to create a gunship Osprey to escort the Osprey. There have been studies @ Bell of something of the sort. Think of a Mi-24 fuselage with the Osprey’s wings welded to the top… Troops, and guns, with missiles mounted on short sponsons.

By: Bill

Bill — Sun, 17 May 2009 15:25:17 +0000

@ 70 million each you would think it would come with a good gun ! ( just kidding)

By: jeff

jeff — Sun, 17 May 2009 11:39:08 +0000

the osprey is a POS trying to find a mission. That is why they want a gun , some old timers in DC want weapons to “get in the fight” and are buying proven useless packages from a air force program that deemed them useless and unsafe. they then abandon the idea.

By: davy

davy — Sat, 16 May 2009 19:58:24 +0000

If they add that remote gun, they lose four troop seats, so only 14 combat equipped troops will fit. They can no longer carry externals with the gun. It adds 1000 lbs of empty weight, so vertical lift is below 6000 lbs. Finally, the biggest threat is a bad guy popping out of hole or building just after the V-22 lands. The belly gun is retracted and there are no pop out windows for anyone to shoot back. So the guy has plenty of time to aim an RPG or unload a full AK-47 mag.

By: Bill

Bill — Fri, 15 May 2009 16:52:19 +0000

I don’t care what gun to put on the V-22 , if this death trap get’s into contact it’s going to be bad very BAD!! If there was ever a program that should have been canceled this is the one. All the money( billions) that they spent on the V-22 should have been spent on making a conventional helicopter that was more survivable and cheaper. What a waste of money .

By: Stephen

Stephen — Thu, 14 May 2009 18:35:31 +0000

it may be that MV-22’s star will shine in the follow up insertion and rapid resupply after the LZ opposition is completely suppressed.
It’s too early in the PR game to risk losing any while it’s still under such close scrutiny.

By: Tim

Tim — Thu, 14 May 2009 15:46:27 +0000

I say arm the hell out of them, anything that can get the grunts in faster and safer is good in my book. I know that we’ve needed a replacement for the old sea knights that we used to fly in on, I just hope that with all the money they’ve spent on the Osprey, that it turns out to be a great investment. Sometimes I have to wonder, though.

By: Candidate Woods

Candidate Woods — Thu, 14 May 2009 14:56:32 +0000

The idea of a modern version of an A-1 would be an excellent compliment to the V-22 as rotary transports hit end of service. It would be cheap, and put a human pilot on site for danger close support.

I suspect the tech in UAVs will evolve enough that they can take over the fire support role before the V-22 goes obsolete, but for now I’d rather have a Marine in the seat.

By: Rhys F

Rhys F — Thu, 14 May 2009 03:29:38 +0000

should read 3 o’clock… touch typing’s not my forte :P

By: Rhys F

Rhys F — Thu, 14 May 2009 03:26:16 +0000

sounds to me like the “defensive” gatling is there to keep the ragheads heads down.

Say the osprey is coming in to a LZ and some bandits in the hills around open up with AK74s and 12.7mm machineguns, The pilot calls “incoming, 3o’colck” to the gunner who brings the gatling to the 3’oclok position and starts playing video game shoot-em-up with the bad guys.

spray and pray area suppression.

By: Chief Houston

Chief Houston — Wed, 13 May 2009 13:43:13 +0000

The fact that AFSOC is working out fire support bugs for the Marines is what joint ops and combined force effectiveness is all about in the various scenarios mentioned above.

These are valid points of concern and certainly will be evaluated in post op debriefings. The important part is to maximize the capability of the overall air operations at 29 Palms MCB with
these combined force doctrines BEFORE they meet
their AFPAK missions to reduce casulty rates of
the ground troops.

By: Andy

Andy — Wed, 13 May 2009 13:42:30 +0000

I think a conventional helo like a Blackhawk would be preferable to this tilt rotor stuff if the LZ is really “hot”. That solves the gunship problem. Don’t think I’d risk such an expensive aircraft when helos are so much chaper and more proven.

Don’t forget the potential for fixed wing gunships like AC-130 or AC-27

By: jimbo

jimbo — Wed, 13 May 2009 11:47:49 +0000

i dont think he was dogging anything… had a valid point?

By: DensityDuck

DensityDuck — Wed, 13 May 2009 02:51:10 +0000

I love how pfcem is such a Boeing zealot that he’ll even post in non-tanker threads to pop non-Boeing aircraft.

By: Cole

Cole — Wed, 13 May 2009 01:40:41 +0000

Alex, I’m kind of assuming the Marines are walking 15 minutes or more to the objective from the non-hot LZ, and then start getting shot at…just about the time the cavalry arrives.

By: Alex

Alex — Wed, 13 May 2009 01:07:59 +0000

Cole, if a V-22 has to fly an hour from base to LZ, any helo support would be a half hour or more behind assuming they left at the same time. That is useless. If Ospreys need helo gunship support to be effective, then the whole program was a huge waste of money.

I doubt the V-22 has to give up much, if any, payload with the current gun it has mounted.

By: Cole

Cole — Wed, 13 May 2009 00:47:50 +0000

Why does it need an escort flying at 10,000′ en route?

Presumably you would have some sort of CAS and Reaper support for the LZ with helicopter gunships bringing up the rear to support troops in contact after landing…not so much the landing itself. You still probably would plan on MEDEVAC helicopters going with the attack birds to have on board care available.

Wonder how much payload V-22 has to give up with the gun? It will be flying in southern Afghanistan at 3500′, claiming success, while Army helicopters in the northeast are operating at 6,000′ and higher. But the speed in the south and in the highway 1 valley to the north could have its place.

By: pfcem

pfcem — Tue, 12 May 2009 22:37:49 +0000

It seems too many either just don’t know or are forgetting that the V-22 can get in, unload & get out faster than any transport helicopter minimizing its time near the LZ. And you don’t land every transport at the same time so those transports not on the ground unloading can provide suppression fire for those that are.

With that said a ‘gunship’ escort really should be provided to provide more than just suppression fire.

By: Rick

Rick — Tue, 12 May 2009 22:30:51 +0000

I imagine the will Marines have dedicated gunships once they feel they have enough V-22’s in theater to spare some from transport duty.

I don’t think you will ever see door gunners though. There is too much chance the a flex gun will shoot into the osprey’s own propellers (or are they rotors on an osprey?) when the ship has the engines rotated down for level flight.

As far as the worthyness of a minigun as a weapon — they did great in Vietnam.

By: Charles Phillips

Charles Phillips — Tue, 12 May 2009 21:45:20 +0000

The better armed Osprey is a good idea — if you needed Apache firepower you could pre-position them near the insertion point. Just a klick or two away would not give away your intended LZ.

Given the modern technology of radios — they could loiter waiting for the Osprey to arrive.

And arming the Osprey would allow it to stand off and fire, then come in and extract your folks. If you sent two Ospreys they could provide mutual fire support.

Just think of the Osprey in Mogadishu — the Blackhawk Down scenario. They could stand off further and move faster — speed is life they say. And an armed Osprey could keep the bad guys low.

Of course the best scenario is a combined arms version — for a quiet extraction you pre-position A-10s and Apaches near the LZ. Come in fast and get your boys. Then depart, leaving the gunships to have the leftovers.

I wouldn’t want to autorotate that bad boy to the ground, though.