ISR Gunships To Target Taliban

ISR Gunships To Target Taliban

The ever expedient Marine Corps plans to send field modified A/KC-130J transport-tanker-gunships to Afghanistan by the end of the year, to provide Marines fighting a resurgent Taliban there with much needed over-watch and precision close air support, Commandant Gen. James Conway said last week.

Marine commander’s have “lusted for years” over the AC-130 gunships, but the highly specialized aircraft are too costly for the cash strapped service, he said. Instead, the Marines have come up with the “Harvest Hawk” program, using a “roll-on, roll-off” sensor, targeting and weapons package that can be installed on a KC-130J aerial refueling tanker in a matter of hours. The KC-130J tanker has the needed long overhead loiter capability and can fly above Taliban air defenses, which Conway said they have been “beefing up.” With the ISR package in the cargo bay, a 30mm cannon sticking out the side, and with Hellfire missiles hung on the aircraft’s wings, the program will transform the tankers into an “aircraft overheard with ISR and with sting,” he said, speaking at CSIS May 15 in Washington.

On a conference call with reporters earlier this month, Marine Corps aviation chief Lt. Gen. George Trautman, said the “soul” of the Harvest Hawk program is the palletized ISR package, already operational on other C-130s, “tied to a targeting system mounted on a wing station, and then tied into a weapons control station inside the airplane.” When Marines deployed to Afghanistan about a year and half ago they found one of the things they needed most was “persistent ISR on station for long periods of time.” The ability to fire guns and missiles would be an added bonus. In addition to the Hellfire, the aircraft might also carry Viper Strike missiles dropped from the rear ramp. He said Marine testers are still trying to determine whether they can get the needed accuracy with the 30mm cannon firing out the side of the aircraft and that they may hold off on that one for the time being.

Conway also addressed the issue of naval gunfire support, saying it was clearly a “deficiency” in search of a solution. While missiles fired from Navy ships can take out precision targets, the fleet’s lack of long-range naval artillery means “volume of fires” is missing. The ability to saturate targets with high explosive is often vital in the early phases of an amphibious landing and the Navy doesn’t have the guns it used to, particularly now that the DDG-1000 program is being truncated.

So, in another expedient move, the Navy and Marines plan to “expand on the concept” of the LCS as a “firing platform” using a “box of rockets.” While the Marines don’t yet have rockets with the desired range and payload, “we’ve examined the [LCS] storage and elevator capacity to get them up to the flight deck… that’s how we think we fix the problem for the long term,” Conway said.

Conway said the Marines will likely emerge in pretty good shape from the ongoing QDR strategic review because of their unique adaptability, the fact the force is able to fight across a wide range of potential conflicts and that it gets a relatively small share of the overall defense budget.

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And I see the AF is acquiring “new” AC-130 gunships as well, by converting some existing aircraft.

Interesting that this is happening when the DoD budget has just shifted, and the AF is retiring some “old” aircraft. Probably not any B-52s though!

So it does appear that the Marines have complained about lack of support, and both services are scrambling to see who gets the money to provide it.

lol you cant retire b-52’s if you cant replace them with something else.. and when you drop the ngb… all you have is b-52s

not a scramble LtCol, the Marines put this idea out a while ago and now the AF is climbing aboard. I guarantee that if the AF decided to acquire more AC-130’s or even agreed to convert more of their tankers to this role the Marines would back off. this is a problem for AF brass in my opinion. while the ground services are requesting support, the AF is focused on fielding a 5th gen fighter force and missions are slipping through its hands.

The Marine Corps is “cash strapped” because they have wasted many many billions on systems like the Osprey, EFV, Harrier and a special model of the J-35. They could buy as many AC-130s as they want if they had just bought H-60s, H-92s and F-18s instead of burning through years and piles of tax dollars on their own “special” platforms.

How do you want to operate F-18s from a LHA? Or do you want to spend even more money getting platforms for that? USMC needs new VSTOLs, its a core capability, they need the EFV, dito. Program histories might be questionable, requirements are clearly not. All of this clearly doesnt help the AF.

“Conway also addressed the issue of naval gunfire support, saying it was clearly a “deficiency” in search of a solution.”

Almost satirical already. That search has been going on for how long now? Thirty years, forty? Good luck with that.

The Navy retired its “volume of fires” for deeply flawed reasoning in 1991. For $1B a copy you’d get: a modernized IOWA class battleship with VLS; automation for reduced manning; extended range, smart munitions for the 16″ guns; updated 5″ or 155s; superb refueling and repair capability; battlegroups that could replace carriers for some missions at far lower cost; and the toughest, hardest to sink ships in the world. But wait. What was I thinking? They’re “old.” Like B-52s and the Golden Gate Bridge. And we all know how useless those are…

The gunship missiles and 30mm cannon are taking the place of the battleship long-range naval artillery .Maybe that is the solution.

You want a lower cost alternative to naval gunfire, the marines already have part of the solution with HIMARS, I rember a mission where the Army successfully tested the feasbility of firing the M270A1 from a Naval platform (a ship) Using the HIMARS firing the the newest generation of MLRS rockets could give a bombardment capability the service is looking for, it seems to me that tactics and techniques need to be developed to make use of what they have.

You want a lower cost alternative to naval gunfire, the Marines already have part of the solution with HIMARS, I rember a mission where the Army successfully tested the feasbility of firing the M270A1 Which is alarge tracked vehicle from a Naval platform (a ship) Using the HIMARS and firing the the newest generation of MLRS rockets could give a bombardment capability the service is looking for, it seems to me that tactics and techniques need to be developed to make use of what they have.

Actually, this idea has been around awhile (at least since the 1990s that I can remember), but the arguement against having tankers be an integral part of the surveillence network (other than comms relay) has always been that they are too vulnerable to have them orbit where you need them. The Marines made the decision to adopt an existing asset that was orbiting the battlefield anyway to give them better long duration surveillence coverage (and possibly strike capability) at a reasonable cost that can be used when and where you need it, doesn’t signifigently degrade any other missions the planes have, and can be removed when you don’t need it anymore or is too dangerous to employ. Of course it only works when you have no SAM threat, but low intensity COIN operations in places like Iraq and Afghanistan are no brainers. Unlike the MRAP, which when the current conflict is over will be stored in a big building somewhere, this is a capability that will enhance the KC-130J force for years to come.

Can part of the payload be SDB’s? Iam not sure how many you can hang on a tanker, but I bet its more than a few.

Having fought in the moutains W/C-2/501 101st Airborne,Vietnam Ripcord AO 1970, you need firepower, that will be on station. Cobras are good, may even consider Chinooks as a platform, but weather was a factor. With KC 130J, that brings a punch. I would even suggest the troops carry 2 laws each, they are light & have range.

mondo.…i hope you are saying to fire a law from inside a tanker down onto a target???!!!! that would be comically tragic…so since you weren’t considering that what would the aircrew do with the laws that they’re carrying?

solomon, I don’t believe mondo was suggesting that the air crews carry laws, when he said troops i believe he meant the grunts, ground pounders, troops on the ground, the tip of the spear, ect.

Reguardless this is a great idea that should be implemented immeadiately. This platform has proven reliable over decades and if the boots on the ground say it is needed… Give it to them NOW! What the hell, Is the Taliban going to put a bounty/reward for who ever is able to shoot one down like was done during Vietnam. I wonder how many goats that equals too?

Perhaps it is time to eyeball the Air Force. Close air support for the ground pounders is not the forte or the disposition of the Air Force. Let them achieve air superiority with the Naval and Marine assets in support of a theater wide conflict. Marine and Naval aviation is deployable by carrier and has a greater selection of weapons for ground support. No one does close up and personal like naval aviation. The Air Force wanted to shed the “Warthog” like a bad cold. It is the most lethal anti-tank and armor weapon we have. It is in great demand by ground commanders. Strip the AF of ongoing ground support roles and use the Marine concept of an integrated ground, ground support, role. The AF can focus on strategic forces, space, and satellite commands. Vertical insertion of troops is sheer folly. Choppers fall from the skies with ease with the current shoulder fired missle imventory and radar controlled AA batteries.

Nuke ‘em from orbit; it’s the only way to be sure.

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