VH-71 Kill ‘Wastes’ $8 Billion?

VH-71 Kill ‘Wastes’ $8 Billion?

Stirring the pot is a key part of what Loren Thompson does. Thompson, go-to source for many defense reporters and defense analyst at the Lexington Institute, has put out an issue brief headlined: KILLING THE PRESIDENT’S NEW HELICOPTER WASTES $8 BILLION. (Those are his capital letters.…) OSD made the program kill official yesterday when they announced cancellation of the contract. Let the Pentagon and Congress know if you think Defense Secretary Gates is wasting billions by killing the VH-71 or is he saving the taxpayers from an even more enormous cock up? Or something more subtle…

Loren’s piece follows:

Four months into his first (and possibly only) term, President Barack Obama is beginning to grasp the severity of the government’s fiscal crisis. Washington is spending $5 billion per day it does not have; the bond market is signaling that it will demand much higher interest rates to absorb all the debt the Treasury needs to place; the dollar is weakening; and the outlook for the administration’s ambitious domestic agenda is dimming. The White House is rethinking how to reform healthcare and searching for savings in entitlement programs, but the simple truth is that America’s fragile economy can’t support the level of spending Obama proposes.


Somehow these realities have not managed to penetrate the Pentagon, where policymakers continue to pursue goals wildly out of sync with fiscal circumstances. Having added 92,000 new soldiers and marines to the joint force (even though we are leaving Iraq), Pentagon leaders now want to hire 20,000 more personnel to manage weapons purchases (even though they are killing dozens of programs). Does anyone at the Pentagon ever ask why an acquisition bureaucracy of 147,000 personnel is needed to buy ten warships and a couple of hundred planes each year? Apparently not — which is one reason the cost of pay and benefits for the defense workforce is rising uncontrollably.

With such wrongheaded priorities being pursued, perhaps it isn’t surprising that Pentagon leaders tend to make questionable calls on the small things, too. Take the decision to kill the president’s new helicopter. Defense secretary Robert Gates probably expected praise for his decision to cancel a pricey replacement of the 30-year-old presidential helicopter fleet. Instead, the decision produced a cascade of criticism. Reporter Christopher Drew of the New York Times wrote that the “effort to avoid wasting billions of dollars could end up doing just that.” The editors of Defense News complained in an editorial that “starting this program over will only waste money.”

The critics are right. Starting over will cost the government at least $8 billion, and that’s not even counting the price-tag for a new replacement helicopter. First, Secretary Gates proposes to walk away from the $3.3 billion already spent on the canceled replacement helicopter, designated VH-71. Second, the government will have to pay termination fees of $200–600 million to contractors (depending on whose estimate you believe). Third, $4.4 billion will need to be spent to extend the service life of the helicopters in the existing Marine One fleet, which were supposed to be retired in the near future. Nobody knows what it will cost to develop a different replacement helicopter, but that money will be added to the $8 billion in costs already associated with the Gates decision.

It appears that Secretary Gates canceled the helicopter without a serious assessment of alternatives. VH-71 was the only rotor-craft in existence that had the potential to meet presidential range and payload requirements while still being able to land in the confined space of the White House lawn. Most of the cost overruns in the program resulted from unrealistic specifications and features added by the government. And some of the supposed problems with VH-71 that Gates cited as reasons for killing the program — like a limited service life — turn out to be untrue. But what’s most unsettling about the cancellation of the president’s new helicopter is that it squanders billions of dollars at a time when the federal government is facing the worst fiscal crisis in living memory.

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He’s right. Decisions are not made in a vacuum. Thompson is trying to force us to keep in mind that the requirement doesn’t disappear just because they cancelled the program; if we need new helicopters, then we need new helicopters!

Now, you do have a point that including “the 3.3 billion already spent” is a bit misleading, because A: it’s a sunk cost, unrecoverable and therefore irrelevant; and B: it’s doubtful that very much of that 3.3 billion was spent on anything useful. Most of it probably went to an endless series of design reviews and interface-update meetings and shoulder-to-shoulder working groups and risk tracking metrical benefication glendizer getterobos.

So Mr Thompson is the go to guy for defense reporters? A problem we have perhaps is that they accept his words at face value, and do not apply any common sense. If Mr Thompson claims that the army of acquisitions people only purchases ten warships and a couple of hundred planes per year — he must be giving us a very abbrieviated version. Doesn’t the DoD buy fuel and uniforms and services and vehicles (lots of MRAPs lately) and facilities and maintenance and lots of stuff? The DoD acquisitions workforce has been allowed to atrophy and now they are hastily trying to reconstitute the force. Unfortunately, the Congress has mandated a long, detailed training and certification program so a person hired today will not be able to work independently for a couple of years. And this is someone who has been hired from a contractor, who knows the system. But they still need to go to classes, get warrants, etc etc. There are no simple answers and from this version of what Mr Thomspen said — it appears that people are expecting quick solutions to complex problems.

gonna waste 8 more billion in R@D to come up w.another project! how dumb are we?

Ask who Thompson works for. It’s not that complicated.

Obama came out against this thing as wasteful in public a while back, which pretty much sealed its fate. He obviuosly didn’t want to seem for something that the general public would construe as a luxury in these hard times…thus Gates killed it.

thats why theyre called dumbocrats!

You got that right brother! They are Dumbocrats and BozoObama is there ring leader…

Thompson is a covert PR man for the defense industry. He supports every program. Clark should know this, just ask him how much he earns from “consulting” from Boeing and others. He never discloses this, and is thus a big con man. Do a story on this Mr. Clark.

Here is a great article about the Truth. Obama doesn’t need that many helos anyway. Do we really need one fly the first lady to Andrews so she doesnt’ have to endure a 20 min. limo ride.

http://​www​.sandersresearch​.com/​i​n​d​e​x​.​p​h​p​?​o​p​t​i​o​n​=​c​o​m​_​c​o​n​t​e​n​t​&​a​m​p​;​t​a​s​k​=​v​i​e​w​&​a​m​p​;​i​d​=​1​394

Just buy more VH-60s that are in production, and cancel two new Air Force One’s. Read the article.

This is more about not having a European design and stopping any loss of prestige and money that it causes US helo manufacturers than about saving money or getting the best aircraft for the job.

Charles Phillips, LtCol USAF Ret—YOU WOULD BE MY GO TO PERSON, YOU HAVE A BRAIN THAT WORKS WITH NO AGENDA! Very good Sir, I salute you.

It was McCain who first started slinging mud at the VH-71 — and, correct me if I‘m wrong, he’s a Republican.

Such a meaningless Deadend alley. I know the President requires a functional transport. And Marine One has had a long, satisfying and secure service life. It is not the President, or the Administration who has taken this issue and exploited it’s weakness. It is US. The BS hungry population. When will we wake up and realize that it’s OUR problem, and take responsibility for our actions and thoughts of mistrust and vengence? Why must we act like vultures? Waiting for the next one to screw up?
Will it take another Pearl? Or 9–11 to pull our collective heads out of our collective Arsses?!?!?
America… Don’t just stand up and yell…
Stand up and give! Give until you start to feel a warm glow, growing and speading across your entire being!
Then.. Maybe… we can make the changes work and grow… By example, not by coercion.
I Love My Country!
I respect our means of Government!
And I will fight again and again for the right to be ME… And for your right to disagree!
Don’t let America sink below common sense!
Helping my neighbor helps me!
And I’m not doing this blog for recognition or fame… I do what I do For The Red White and Blue!!!
God Bless the USA!

Darned if you do and darned if you don’t!
Helicopters are a big money pit, and should only be used when absolutely necessary.

I also believe that the typical government requirements got totally out of hand.

And, I spent quite a bit of my professional career involved in the military procurement and logistics area!

The longer a procurement program is stretched out, the more expensive it becomes, and the costs rapidly become greater than the benefits. Generally, something based upon ten year old specifications is not what is needed when it is finally produced.

The solution is NOT buying a new aircraft from scratch, its using one that is in the inventory. I suggest the V-22 Osprey. A Marine operated, fast transport with range and payload to be a flying White House. Hey I am not saying I agree with all the goldplating the former WH put on the VH-71! Maybe even dump some of the USAF planes sitting and waiting at Andrews?

And BTW Thompson is a known mouthpiece for the defense industry.

ya lets downsize nancy pelosi airlines.… lmao

Maybe the president can use the H-60 as the basis for the new transport. We have hundreds of them in use today and they can be easily modifed to carry the white house staff. Sounds like the Bose stereo system pushed the VH-71 over the top!!!! Maybe next time they will freeze the requirements early in the program.

Most people miss the point. It’s not about the money. It’s all about appearances. The Pres needs to look like he’s doing as many of the things he promised in the campaign, smart or not.

Sunk costs are — well — sunk. The costs to pay off the contractors is hide-able, as is the upgrade of the current helos. And the cost of restarting will not be seen for a couple years, by which time this will be forgotten.

The presidential helicopter essentially just transports the president around the dc metro area.. any farther than that… he usually gets dropped off at andrews and they take air force one.. so im in w/u guys for a presidential blackhawk or something to that matter.. they shouldnt have even wasted the billions of dollars thye put into this program.. its just silly that nothing came out of it.. it was a blackhole for 8 billion dollars.. thats what im pissed about.. i could careless about what hte president is flying around in…

Why don’t they just borrow some more money from China? Give the guy a Kia and let him drive.

It’s just what the people voted for and got. These guys are making a change, and that’s all that will be left in the pockets of our grandchildren and Great grandchildren. Obama, and his cronies are in the process of totally bankrupting this country, if you inherit a “deficit” wouldn’t common sense tell you to Stop spending, Obama and the liberal Democrats in Congress are forcing the United States into historic levels of national debt, which will severely compromise national security and sovereignty.

Hey, just frees-up $$$ to fund additional “date nights” for Barack and Michelle.…

If Mr Thompson is concerned about unrecoverable sunk costs, consider the facilities constructed at Anacostia to house the V-22, which was the original planned presidential helo replacement. The V-22 is now operational and could save millions by having the capability to fly from the Whitehouse to any number of sites directly without having to use Air Force 1.

jimbo: Actually, that’s where the cost came from. Marine One was originally just an “escape pod” from the White House, its sole purpose was to get the President from WH to Dulles quickly enough that he could escape nuclear obliteration. AFO was the “mobile command post” for the President.

Unfortunately, AFO requires a whole extra AFO in case the first one goes down, plus an entire fleet of support aircraft including two C-5 transports. You can’t exactly rustle that all up on a whim. Much easier to have something like a helicopter; but that means that said helicopter has to be, basically, a flying White House, able to conduct all the business of the United States Government.

Unfortunately, VH-71 was costed as an escape pod; and when they decided to make it a flying Oval Office, they didn’t go back and re-write the program.

Some of you are so clueless. Esp the ones mentioning about using the V-22. The reason they dont use the V22 is the down draft is to much. It would tear up the WH lawn. Yes as dumb as that sounds, its the truth. The H60’s are to small on the inside.
You left wing nut jobs that are clueless, should get your facts straight before putting in your 2 cents, esp ones from wva.

The V-22 is a piece of S*** and we spent all that money on it and want even put in the war. All it does is fly people around. It does not even have a weapons system on it. Now that is a waist.

This guy is a shill.
He doesn’t like Defense Contracts oversight? Look at what the Republicans did when they cut them. Coast Guard cutters that don’t work and are scrapped, V-22, F-22, FCS, all contracted out with no oversight, and all useless. The Missle Defesnse System 30 Billion and counting for NOTHING. High Altitude Airships? Does spending $3 billion for an Airship make sense to even a loyal Republican? Get a grip!
The current adminsitration understands our enemies and some of them are represented by Mr. Thompson. Our warfighters don’t need new aircraft, they need new rifles, and better chow. They need to know their families are taken care of and that heey will be taken care of if injured. The Republicans like to talk a big game but can’t back up their game with results. Slimy is what they are.

Save some money now, as three more years of this type of reduction and the military will return to the days of hang ur head carter days. The carousel never ends, the services start with one idea and then everyone starts adding to it. The grunt,sailor,airman, can complete more than half a career before he/she uses the end item, sorry, for whatever reason the system is broke and the troops suffer. Why cant it be fixed?..Politics

V-22 will NEVER work as a presidential replacement. Plain and simple.

“The critics are right. Starting over will cost the government at least $8 billion, and that’s not even counting the price-tag for a new replacement helicopter. First, Secretary Gates proposes to walk away from the $3.3 billion already spent on the canceled replacement helicopter, designated VH-71. Second, the government will have to pay termination fees of $200–600 million to contractors (depending on whose estimate you believe). Third, $4.4 billion will need to be spent to extend the service life of the helicopters in the existing Marine One fleet, which were supposed to be retired in the near future. Nobody knows what it will cost to develop a different replacement helicopter, but that money will be added to the $8 billion in costs already associated with the Gates decision.”

I find it amazing how adept some people are at the word game. I remember the press confrence the writer wrote about and I don’t remember hearing the SECDEF say any thing about “starting over” in reference to the Presidential copper fleet, what I do remember is him(SECDEF)say he would look into why there are so many choppers. First off this version of Marine-1 have been around for a long time, it’s time for a replacement, second: didn’t they find the wiring schematics/diagram of this new Marine-1 floating around on the internet in the middle east some where? If he did canseled the order, I would say thats a good enough reason, let alone the cost overruns. But seeing as how this thing was ordered during the last administration, the level of screw-ups are not at all surprising.

Great job Mr. President! In the face of a poor economy you wasted $8 billion without looking into the facts first. How many jobs are now lost due to the cancellation? Way to go, you are so much better than a Republican President could have been!

Mike,

The helicopter is European and made there. Whatever we can spend on electronics for these aircraft can be moved towards upgrading the existing fleet.

I think Obama is looking for a more “dumbed down” version to put out to bid.

We already have some of these aircraft so I am sure we can have a couple of these as Sec. Gates mentioned.

DC2

It’s just foolish to think that we could afford this over rated and over engineered monstrosity. Cancelling the program didn’t waste $8 b, it merely showed 8b ways not to spend it. If the requiremnet for a new Presidential helo exists (and I believe it does) then re-write the spec to something affordable and hold another competition.

i say jus task an andrews uh-1 to ferry the president around.. we already have them all painted up? wtf do they do? throw on a radio.. and you are set…

I’ve read most of Dr. Thompson’s writings and he’s generally correct. So is Density Duck. The rest of you make it fun though; ridiculous mostly but fun.

I agree that the cancellation of VH71 was political. It started when McCain brought it out in a press conference, Obama shot off his mouth without the facts, and now we are all paying for it. I worked on the helo being discussed. My employer has had to sit back and take the kicks in the groin because we can’t defend our position without mud slinging our customer (the Gov’t). These helo’s were mission ready and have been used by other countries for years. The ever changing requirements are what buried it. The people working hard to deliver it are now facing layoffs. This is not a Republican or Democrat issue. Its pure government, we elected Obama, Gates is a left over from the Bush administration, and McCain is the one that put the issue in front of the public in the first place. No one party is to blame, we all are to blame for getting sucked into the crap that comes out of the mouths of these idiots. We have a hanger full of helos here that the tax payers are going to have to pay for regaurdless. And I can’t even fathom what the re-bid will be like, but for 1000 folks up my way, it’ll be too late. So if Obama wants to save face, he should be using automobiles instead of helicopters to save money from here on out. Because the helos he has now are in serious need of replacement. Go Greyhound!

The V-22 (Which has been to war)is not a suitable aircraft nor is the H-60. The H-3 is a relic and should be in a museum somewhere. Those of you that are not close to the program (I am) don’t realize that this was a political stunt by the WH. The program was off tract, stopped, reavaluated, corrections made then restarted again in 2008. with the thumbs up. The VH-71 is a perfect replacement and will do the task assigned it. Also Marine does not just stay in the US it is shipped when the president goes abroad. Also the First family gets the same protection as the POTUS by direction of the USSS. By the way more jobs in the US were lost (Including me) than from the countries that built the Aircraft.

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