Tanker Talk of Paris, No Answers

Tanker Talk of Paris, No Answers

One topic has dominated conversations among the Americans at the Paris Air Show: the tanker program and just what Boeing really will do

At a press conference, senior Boeing officials spent much of their time trying to generate news but they may well have raised more questions than they answered. This may be due at least in part to the state of the competition — no RFP out yet, not much clarity on requirements yet and questions about whether a split buy will really happen.

Boeing offered a new designation for its tanker: the 7A7. While Boeing clearly intended this to demonstrate the company’s flexibility in responding to whatever requirements come forth from the Pentagon, several observers I spoke with after the press conference interpreted this as showing Boeing was more focused on offering the 777 since it appeared to mark a step away from the 767.


Some of this clearly verges on the metaphysic; trying to interpret what it is truly in the hearts of men. But Boeing’s decision to offer either the 777 or the 767 does — no matter what the company has tried to say — raise a number of questions about its bid.

Here’s what company officials said at the press conference. Most important, one of the company’s top officials — Pat Shanahan — came in halfway through the press conference to declare that the company regarded the tanker competition as “equally important” as its premier product — the 787 Dreamliner passenger plane. This means, company officials said later, that Boeing will commit whatever resources are necessary to production for either the 777 or the 767 should it win the tanker contract. The 777 is, of course, one of the most popular planes in the world and Boeing has a substantial backlog of orders, so breaking into commercial production is highly unlikely. The company might well build a parallel production line, as it did for the P-8A, which is based on the 737 airframe, officials said.

But the company has not done any wind tunnel testing for a 777 tanker or for prospective booms or pods, Dave Bowman, company VP for tankers, said in response to a reporter’s question.

Still, Bowman said the company stands ready to deliver either the 767 or the 777, depending on what the RFP and conversations with Air Force officials indicate would be the best fit. Requirements for longer range and more fuel offload = 777. More flying from forward air bases and tactical flexibility = 767.

But Air Force officials must be a bit worried as they dissect the 767’s evolution, especially in Italy. Boeing has faced serious problems with vibration — or “flutter” — from the plane’s pods. I asked a Boeing official at the end of the press conference if the problem had been solved. “We’ve resolved most of that,” the official said. The company has had a tiger team working the pod problem for many months and it appears they are making progress. Even a source at another company conceded that Boeing would fix it, though the cost in time and schedule might be high.

Since a split or dual buy appears to be the direction Congress will require to avoid any protest, Boeing may well be positioning the 777 as a complement to Northrop Grumman’s KC-45, a range of sources from both Boeing competitors and neutral industry observers here at the show said. Now we just to wait for the RFP to find out which way the boom will swing.

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As I have said many times before, when talkiing to the NG tanker team, we went to the range and they showed me a real plane flying around and said what they could add onto it. When we went to the BA team they showed me a hypothetical computer simulation saying what they “could” build. I have to say as the somewhat objective third party (our nifty toys go on whichever platform wins) I feel that NG has this one.

Colin,

You should spend more time listening to Bowman & less time your fellow spin-doctors looking for anything they/you can to cast doubt on Boeing.

“Bowman said the company stands ready to deliver either the 767 or the 777, depending on what the RFP and conversations with Air Force officials indicate would be the best fit. Requirements for longer range and more fuel offload = 777. More flying from forward air bases and tactical flexibility = 767.”

It could not be more clear than that.

***

LockMartSkunk,

LOL.

If Boeing wanted to play the game of showing you a similar tanker & “what they could add onto it”, it could direct you to visit Japan &/or Italy.

The fact that you keep bringing this nonsense up & present it the way you do proves you to not be anywhere near as an “objective third party” as you claim to be.

pcfem… If you seriously think the equipment that is on export models of the tanker are anything qualitativly similar to what is sold to the DoD then I don’t really know what you are doing in the defense industry.

Colin,
I thought trolling was not permitted here? Why is Pfcem still posting his garbage here?

LockMartSkunk,

I know very well the differences between the Italian, Japanese & KC-X proposed tankers.

But there are very much similar differences between the Australian (& other) KC-30 & the NG/EADS proposed tanker.

Yes, the KC-30’s are closer than the KC-767s, due mostly to Boeing tailoring its KC-767s to customer requirements much more so than EADS does with its tankers, but if the KC-30 are ‘virtually identical’ why is the NG/EADS KC-X proposal SDD not virtually zero…

Also note that the 767 airframe “minor modifications” are very minor compared to some of the systems developement on the KC-X reguardless of what airframe/platform it is.

Only a Boing Buddy would call creating the 767–200, 767–300, 767–400 FrankenTanker a “minor modification”.

It starts again.…

Today’s Non-Ethics Word: Boinginate
Pronunciation: \Bo-ing-i-nate\
Function: Verb
Etymology: North Western US & Boeing/Aeronovali/JADC Consortium
Date: 2008
Transitive verb
: to habitually lie, cheat, bribe or steal if you really, really want to win

why not convert a C-17 into a tanker or add a refuel module taht would fit inside?

because it makes sense probably…

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