Murtha Grants DoD Tanker Options

Murtha Grants DoD Tanker Options

UPDATED: Mike Wynne Comments.

Rep. Jack Murtha’s House Appropriation defense subcommittee has granted the Pentagon some latitude for the tanker program, giving it the choice of a single or dual buy. Perhaps more importantly, Murtha says the Pentagon should double the number of planes it buys each year so it doesn’t leave the nation with some tankers that are 80 years old by the time the 513-fleet is rebuilt.

As we reported earlier, the bill contained $440 million for the tanker deal, whatever shape it might take.

“During this period, the Air Force will invest billions of taxpayer dollars in maintenance of an ever aging and increasingly unreliable fleet. Based on studies conducted by the Department of Defense, total fleet costs are anticipated to increase from $2.1 billion per year to $3 billion per year by 2040 due to increasing depot maintenance and forecasted modernization programs in avionics and aircraft systems. Additionally, the Department anticipates depot maintenance costs increasing from $320,000,000 to $1,100,000,000 in 2040 due to aging aircraft related maintenance,” the report says.

There are a few conditions in the bill language. The Pentagon gets to choose either a single contract award “based on a best value or lowest cost source selection derived from full and open competition, subject to the condition that non-development aircraft produced under such contract must be finally assembled in the United States.” This will include analysis of “the life-cycle costs of each aircraft over a 40-year period (including costs of fuel consumption, military construction and other factors normally associated with operation and support of tanker aircraft) and shall include an independent 40-year life-cycle cost estimate conducted by a federally funded research and development center.”

If that choice isn’t palatable — and it would appear from a quick read to be tilted to Boeing — then the Pentagon can issue a contract to two companies as long as the planes are “finally assembled” in the US. Imagine the number of lawyers it will take to determine just what constitutes “finally assembled…”

Mike Wynne, former Air Force secretary, said in an email that Murtha’s committee seemed to be making the right moves. “The House appropriators have recognized that a dual award might be a good idea because of the litigious nature of our procurement system, and that doubling the rate of acquisition of tankers to 24 units a year would reflect less than a quarter of the rate they were procured in the late 1950’s; both excellent suggestions. But this has left to the SecDef the actual decision; and he has already opined on the subject and is very likely not inclined to listen to this sage advice,” Wynne wrote. Gates should change his mind, the former secretary said, because, “without tankers, we can hardly call ourselves an expeditionary power.”

One of the capital’s best known defense analysts also said the HAC-D was on the right track.

“Mr. Murtha is right about the inefficiency of the proposed tanker buy. At 15 planes per year, it would take three decades to replace the current fleet of Eisenhower-era KC-135s. That means heavy maintenance costs to keep the legacy fleet flying, at the same time new tankers are being bought at uneconomical rate,” Loren Thompson of the Lexington Institute said in an email.

Also, the Defense Secretary must certify in writing by October that its choice “represents the most cost-effective and expeditious tanker replacement strategy that best responds to U.S. national security requirements.”

Murtha does offer a sweetener to the Pentagon, at least in terms of rationale for doubling the purchase rate. “The lower cost per flying hour alone will save the taxpayer $1,795,500,000 per year for a fleet of 513 aircraft (current total aircraft inventory) or $3,500,000 per plane per year replaced,” the report says.

In addition, the report language requires a study “that includes a description of key mission requirement and performance parameters that will be used as the basis for determining the key selection criteria in the source selection process; a full and complete characterization and definition of “best value”; a description of the process that the Department of Defense intends to use to ensure open, balanced and transparent communications with potential offerors; and a full description of the corrections made to the source selection process that addresses the issues raised by the Government Accountability Office in it’s ‘Statement Regarding the Bid Protest Decision Resolving the Aerial Refueling Tanker Protest by the Boeing Company, B311344 et​.al, June 18, 2008.’ ”

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Don’t worry guys, Congress is on the job! They’ll do a study. They’ll write a doctoral dissertation about requirements. They’ll transfer everyone over to a new risk-tracking system. They’ll request new BOEs and costing schedules from both contractors (with a one-month turnaround and a six-month review). And then they’ll throw all that shit out and buy the Boeing tanker because the NG offering has an “Airbus” sticker on the side. It’s assembled in Alabama and uses American engines and American electronics, but it’s got an “Airbus” sticker on the side and DEM FURRINERS TUK ARE JAAAABS!

More news from a guy working with both teams: NG is calling shenanagins on BA’s attempt to use the 777. BA is ramping up their R&D to see if they can even build a KC-777 let alone their current dsigns of the 767 platform. NG is refining their current design and builds. Both are pumping more money into the politics of it all than they should be. That is all.

How are they going to get “DEM FURRINERS” out of Boing? Doesn’t the “International” Federation
of Professional and Technical Engineers mean they have FURRINERS?

Buster: Boeing is a Red-Blooded Apple-Mom-And-Baseball-Pie “AMERICAN” Company. Airbus is owned by a bunch of smelly Commie cheese-eaters. The reality of the situation is not something that Congress or the mob are able to recognize–they just go by team names.

he said smelly commie cheese eaters! funny!

So is the anti-Boeing/pro-EADS crown going to dismiss the savings of quicker (faster/earlier) recapitalization from quicker (faster/earlier) retirement of old high maintenance/operational costs tankers like they did during the tanker lease.

I find it so ammusing how “based on a best value or lowest cost source selection derived from full and open competition, subject to the condition that non-development aircraft produced under such contract must be finally assembled in the United States” & “the life-cycle costs of each aircraft over a 40-year period (including costs of fuel consumption, military construction and other factors normally associated with operation and support of tanker aircraft)” are considered ’tilted to Boeing’…

pfcem: Considering that today’s vote means the future USAF will have vastly fewer aircraft, why would we need a larger number of smaller tankers?

1. I thought the committee also authorized a “sole source”?
2. I recall Gallois (or Enders) of EADS, when interviewed at the recent Paris Air Show, refusing to commit to assembly in the U.S. if they didn’t get the entire contract. How would that go over in the Congress? A split buy with all the work done in Europe, except the boom, paint and decals? Don’t think so.

DensityDuck,

LOL.

Appearantly you have no idea just how many aircraft the US has to refuel…

1. I thought the committee also authorized a “sole source”?
2. I recall Gallois (or Enders) of EADS, when interviewed at the recent Paris Air Show, refusing to commit to assembly in the U.S. if they didn’t get the entire contract. How would that go over in the Congress? A split buy with all the work done in Europe, except the boom, paint and decals? Don’t think so.
BTW I love your blog!

Density: Yeh, American owned that’s what they say about GM, literally.

And Boeing says, “China has a sophisticated and expanding part to play in the commercial aviation industry and has a role on all of Boeing commercial airplane models-737, 747, 767, 777 and the newest and most innovative airplane, the 787 Dreamliner.”

American? Keep Dreaming.…

Aurora,

There are persistent rumors that Northrop’s Ron Sugar may drop his pursuit of the tanker deal if the RFP and other (read legislative) conditions seem too onerous. The Europeans might not be too happy if the numbers seem too low — in their estimation — to make US assembly profitable enough. How much of this is posturing and how much is dogma is very hard to judge.

Northrop’s “Going Galt”?

What ever happened to the “Buy American” act? We are talking about American Taxpayer money, and American Defense expenditures at a time when Americans need jobs. Defense expenditures for hardware should never go to a foreign country. What happens if they get mad at us or vice versa. Unfortunately our Congress doesn’t get the bigger picture. The world is not flat!

Buy America Act, then the tankers is a NO-GO since the Boeing fuselage like the Airbus is built OVERSEAS and delivered to the United States. They cannot put electronics in the aircraft since a lot of the boards and small parts are made overseas. So that Buy American act sounds nice but it ain’t true.

Sorry Bob, the buy American talk that Boeing puts out is pure BS. Their own website shows that most of their fleet is foreign supported. They brag that, “Since the 1980s, Boeing has purchased more than US $1,000,000,000 in aviation hardware and services from China.”

And we all know what kind of Quality you get from them!

Bob,
Are you serious?????

Well for one is there a need for 513 tankers or for far less, the SIOP option is not in play anymore. That was the primary factor for the Tanker until the AF found it could refuel other aircraft. Now the question should be why are we reinventing the wheel, how about a KC-17 or purchase aircaft siting in bone years and revamp them to become tankers i see no reason for a hugh investment in aircraft that would fo the most part not solve the bad decsions of the AF leadership and the DOD. Lets get real how about an UAV Tanker lets think outside the box guys

Dual source tanker buy? Well, let’s look for an analog. How about this:
Southwest Airlines operates a standardized Boeing 737 fleet (of several configurations) = standardized spares and maintenance, standardized training, lower costs and they are making money.

US AIR: a melange of different airgraft types = different training, different spares and maintenance, higher costs and they are losing money.

Whichever tanker is selected, just pick ONE! Stop trying to make everyone happy.

To Spiegelman, dude you are insane! A KC-17 would be a waste of a perfectly good cargo plane. As for for a UAV Tanker, where did you get that idea. Let’s take 1/2 million pounds of jet fuel and send it up in the air by remote control and hope it all works. You’ve been watching too much hollywood.

Old391 & BS_Buster,

No, Boeing commercial 737, 747, 767 & 777 AIRFRAMES are ~70% US manufactured (JUST the airframe). And those ‘parts’ that make up the remaining ~30% are manufactured in several countries (China’s contribution is LOW single digits) BUT Boeing retains full ability to produce said ‘parts’ if need be (although with significant delay & cost).

As for the “Buy American” act, the demand to have a competition trumps that.

It is not just about the jobs in the manufacturing & assembly. What about all the engineers, accountants, secretaries, & such that Boeing employs to support such contracts. What about US & Washington State taxes? What does Boeing pay? Airbus? Then there is the vertical stabilizer separations on the Airbus aircaft that are being ignored by the aviation safety community?

NG has the Tanker plane flying now, Boeing’s plane is still only on paper.

Quite the astute observation there US Cit, working with both design teams, BA is at best a flight simulation with some fanciful ideas and the promise that it can be built. NG is flying their jet around… you know… in the air.

Pcfem, weren’t you the moron that thought our export models were the same toys we made for the DoD?

pfcem, You missed the point again like you always do. You could not BUY American if 1 component is made outside the US. To Buy American means all the “parts” are manufactured in the US. The 30% you mentioned still disqualifies as a Buy American under the rule. Your statement of “BUT Boeing retains full ability to produce said ‘parts’ if need be (although with significant delay & cost).” This would make the aircraft COST Prohibited.

PF, you can deny all you want, I quoted Boeing on 737, 747, 767 & 777 parts made in China.

And Joe, when it comes to American engineers, Boeing states, “Boeing works with three Chinese universities on wireless communication R&D.” That must be why their “International” Federation of Professional and Technical Engineers Union has the “INTERNATIONAL” on the front of it?

Murtha is a crooked as a dog’s hind leg. He bears close watching to insure he doesn’t line his pocket as this tanker deal progresses. In all likelihood, Murtha will find ways for the coal-mining industry in his home district to, somehow, qualify for building sophisticated jet aircraft components.

He’s a disgrace as a Marine Reservist and doesn’t deserve association with the eagle globe and anchor.

All,
Put all your BS to rest!
The KC-45 (A-330) will be made in the US, with US workers. Only several of the Planes were actually made in EU and they are flying right now! It has proven it’s worthiness by the Aussies for the last 5 years as a tanker.
All mods will be in the US by US workers.
If you think it’s a French Plane, guess again! The proposed Boeing 767 “Frankenplane” is made by 10 different countries. It’s also troubling that Boeing seems to have a history of not meeting schedule.
The protest last year was to give them time to design something the Pentagon would bite into, NG is already in the air.
Who will be profitting from the Northrop award.…..the Americans?
Split the difference, see who makes a better plane and keep costs, overruns and scheduling within the contract.
Mertha may have the right idea.….for once.

Until the arrogant cheese eaters and their pacifist allies start putting some skin in the game of geopolitical conflicts…(I’m talking frontlines here)…than they shouldn’t be rewarded in anyway with regards to US military contracts. Boeing’s 767 is sufficient for tanker duties. Airbus’s is overkill. If you Euro-lovers want overkill, than Boeing’s 777 is the right choice.

At this point I don’t care what the aircraft is. Yet the winner should not be chosen based on international politics or anything like that. Lets just get these aircraft produced, and get those old KC-135s retired.

In the DefenseNews​.com There was an article about the Saudis buying 3 more A330 Tankers to bring their tanker fleet up to 6. Maybe we can get gas from their tankers while we wait for the Air Force and Congress to make it ups mind as to what the new AF tanker will be.

US citizen,

Wrong. NG has zero tankers flying. Boeing has five tankers (767) flying now (three in Japan & two in Italy). EADS has ONE tanker (A330) flying (in Australia) now.

The NG/EADS tanker proposed for KC-X is NOT the same as the Australian or any other A330 tanker. It is close (closer than the KC-767AT is to the Japanese & Italian KC-767s) but NOT the same — if it were the same the SDD time/cost for the NG/EADS offer would be zero.

***

Melbourne,

No the KC-30 would NOT be made in the US. It would be MANUFACTURED in Europe & ASSEMBLED in the US. Where do you think all that >42% foreign content comes from?

Latest New Release from Boeing, “Boeing Co.‘s request to the Pentagon for additional time to assemble its offer for a disputed $35 billion aerial refueling tanker contract. ” Boeing had enough time to do their proposal paperwork so why the extenison? What have they been doing, scratching their rear end to try and come up with a plan. One week it is the 767, next time is the 777, surprised they have not offered a 787. Either get with the time line or get out of the bid.

And we thought the only thing Boeing can’t deliver on time is a product? Now they admit they can’t meet a schedule to assemble their offer? Oh well, with Boeing, aircraft or offer, paper is paper. Maybe they should use the offer paper to plug the latest crack on the 787 and leave the tanker to flying aircraft?

Old391, where did you see this News Release? I’ve been looking and can’t find it. Could you provide a link?

Do not have a link it was in the Orlando, Fl Newspaper

Melbourne is correct in one sense, it’s not completely a French airplane. It’s in reality a French, German, Spanish, and British airplane.

Hey Melbourne, tell me this. Where will the Nose section for your A330 be made? Where will the wings be made? Where will the fuselage be made? Which US city? The correct answer is no US city, because all those parts of the plane will come out of the exact same factories in the EU that build every other A330.

Nice try at propaganda, but the facts are the facts.

Howard: It’s not like Boeing builds everything domestically, either. Just ask Alenia. Oh no, did my fuselage crumple up like a soda can again? Doh.

Old391, I just did another search on Google News and…nothing. I strongly suspect this story is b.s.

Old391,

I googled the exact quote and got an Orlando article…from a year ago in August. ;)

Although I did see something today about Boeing agreeing to pay $25 million for botched KC-10 work…but that and the 787 screw-ups only equal the Airbus/EADS A-400 screw-up.

Sounds to me like a dual-buy is the sole solution that hopefully gets somebody doing it right to make up the other’s goofs.

Well look at it this way if the RFP does not come out in Septembet 2009 we will know why. Howard, the plane may be produced outside of the US bur all the electronis, engines, some other interior and exterior parts will come for US manufactures.

Boeing can not make the parts needed in the US without the Government incurring a LARGE price increase due to the hourly wage they pay the Boeing workers. The parts made outside of the US are cheaper because of the labor wages that is paidedto the worker. If they made Boeing wages wow

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