Comments on: Murtha Grants DoD Tanker Options http://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/07/21/murtha-grants-dod-tanker-options/ Online Defense and Acquisition Journal Thu, 09 Feb 2012 14:55:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: old391http://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/07/21/murtha-grants-dod-tanker-options/#comment-12635 old391 Sun, 16 Aug 2009 19:55:05 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=8088#comment-12635 Well look at it this way if the RFP does not come out in Septembet 2009 we will know why. Howard, the plane may be produced outside of the US bur all the electronis, engines, some other interior and exterior parts will come for US manufactures.Boeing can not make the parts needed in the US without the Government incurring a LARGE price increase due to the hourly wage they pay the Boeing workers. The parts made outside of the US are cheaper because of the labor wages that is paidedto the worker. If they made Boeing wages wow Well look at it this way if the RFP does not come out in Septembet 2009 we will know why. Howard, the plane may be produced outside of the US bur all the electronis, engines, some other interior and exterior parts will come for US manufactures.

Boeing can not make the parts needed in the US without the Government incurring a LARGE price increase due to the hourly wage they pay the Boeing workers. The parts made outside of the US are cheaper because of the labor wages that is paidedto the worker. If they made Boeing wages wow

]]> By: Colehttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/07/21/murtha-grants-dod-tanker-options/#comment-12541 Cole Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:00:13 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=8088#comment-12541 Old391,I googled the exact quote and got an Orlando article...from a year ago in August. ;)Although I did see something today about Boeing agreeing to pay $25 million for botched KC-10 work...but that and the 787 screw-ups only equal the Airbus/EADS A-400 screw-up.Sounds to me like a dual-buy is the sole solution that hopefully gets somebody doing it right to make up the other's goofs. Old391,

I googled the exact quote and got an Orlando article…from a year ago in August. ;)

Although I did see something today about Boeing agreeing to pay $25 million for botched KC-10 work…but that and the 787 screw-ups only equal the Airbus/EADS A-400 screw-up.

Sounds to me like a dual-buy is the sole solution that hopefully gets somebody doing it right to make up the other’s goofs.

]]> By: Aurorahttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/07/21/murtha-grants-dod-tanker-options/#comment-12540 Aurora Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:05:05 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=8088#comment-12540 Old391, I just did another search on Google News and...nothing. I strongly suspect this story is b.s. Old391, I just did another search on Google News and…nothing. I strongly suspect this story is b.s.

]]> By: DensityDuckhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/07/21/murtha-grants-dod-tanker-options/#comment-12537 DensityDuck Fri, 14 Aug 2009 21:16:40 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=8088#comment-12537 Howard: It's not like Boeing builds everything domestically, either. Just ask Alenia. Oh no, did my fuselage crumple up like a soda can again? Doh. Howard: It’s not like Boeing builds everything domestically, either. Just ask Alenia. Oh no, did my fuselage crumple up like a soda can again? Doh.

]]> By: Howardhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/07/21/murtha-grants-dod-tanker-options/#comment-12536 Howard Fri, 14 Aug 2009 20:16:33 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=8088#comment-12536 Melbourne is correct in one sense, it's not completely a French airplane. It's in reality a French, German, Spanish, and British airplane.Hey Melbourne, tell me this. Where will the Nose section for your A330 be made? Where will the wings be made? Where will the fuselage be made? Which US city? The correct answer is no US city, because all those parts of the plane will come out of the exact same factories in the EU that build every other A330.Nice try at propaganda, but the facts are the facts. Melbourne is correct in one sense, it’s not completely a French airplane. It’s in reality a French, German, Spanish, and British airplane.

Hey Melbourne, tell me this. Where will the Nose section for your A330 be made? Where will the wings be made? Where will the fuselage be made? Which US city? The correct answer is no US city, because all those parts of the plane will come out of the exact same factories in the EU that build every other A330.

Nice try at propaganda, but the facts are the facts.

]]> By: Old391http://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/07/21/murtha-grants-dod-tanker-options/#comment-12530 Old391 Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:40:18 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=8088#comment-12530 Do not have a link it was in the Orlando, Fl Newspaper Do not have a link it was in the Orlando, Fl Newspaper

]]> By: Aurorahttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/07/21/murtha-grants-dod-tanker-options/#comment-12529 Aurora Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:19:29 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=8088#comment-12529 Old391, where did you see this News Release? I've been looking and can't find it. Could you provide a link? Old391, where did you see this News Release? I’ve been looking and can’t find it. Could you provide a link?

]]> By: BS_Busterhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/07/21/murtha-grants-dod-tanker-options/#comment-12527 BS_Buster Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:48:12 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=8088#comment-12527 And we thought the only thing Boeing can't deliver on time is a product? Now they admit they can't meet a schedule to assemble their offer? Oh well, with Boeing, aircraft or offer, paper is paper. Maybe they should use the offer paper to plug the latest crack on the 787 and leave the tanker to flying aircraft? And we thought the only thing Boeing can’t deliver on time is a product? Now they admit they can’t meet a schedule to assemble their offer? Oh well, with Boeing, aircraft or offer, paper is paper. Maybe they should use the offer paper to plug the latest crack on the 787 and leave the tanker to flying aircraft?

]]> By: Old391http://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/07/21/murtha-grants-dod-tanker-options/#comment-12526 Old391 Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:29:54 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=8088#comment-12526 Latest New Release from Boeing, "Boeing Co.'s request to the Pentagon for additional time to assemble its offer for a disputed $35 billion aerial refueling tanker contract. " Boeing had enough time to do their proposal paperwork so why the extenison? What have they been doing, scratching their rear end to try and come up with a plan. One week it is the 767, next time is the 777, surprised they have not offered a 787. Either get with the time line or get out of the bid. Latest New Release from Boeing, “Boeing Co.‘s request to the Pentagon for additional time to assemble its offer for a disputed $35 billion aerial refueling tanker contract. ” Boeing had enough time to do their proposal paperwork so why the extenison? What have they been doing, scratching their rear end to try and come up with a plan. One week it is the 767, next time is the 777, surprised they have not offered a 787. Either get with the time line or get out of the bid.

]]> By: pfcemhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/07/21/murtha-grants-dod-tanker-options/#comment-11981 pfcem Wed, 05 Aug 2009 21:17:31 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=8088#comment-11981 US citizen,Wrong. NG has zero tankers flying. Boeing has five tankers (767) flying now (three in Japan & two in Italy). EADS has ONE tanker (A330) flying (in Australia) now.The NG/EADS tanker proposed for KC-X is NOT the same as the Australian or any other A330 tanker. It is close (closer than the KC-767AT is to the Japanese & Italian KC-767s) but NOT the same - if it were the same the SDD time/cost for the NG/EADS offer would be zero.***Melbourne,No the KC-30 would NOT be made in the US. It would be MANUFACTURED in Europe & ASSEMBLED in the US. Where do you think all that >42% foreign content comes from? US citizen,

Wrong. NG has zero tankers flying. Boeing has five tankers (767) flying now (three in Japan & two in Italy). EADS has ONE tanker (A330) flying (in Australia) now.

The NG/EADS tanker proposed for KC-X is NOT the same as the Australian or any other A330 tanker. It is close (closer than the KC-767AT is to the Japanese & Italian KC-767s) but NOT the same — if it were the same the SDD time/cost for the NG/EADS offer would be zero.

***

Melbourne,

No the KC-30 would NOT be made in the US. It would be MANUFACTURED in Europe & ASSEMBLED in the US. Where do you think all that >42% foreign content comes from?

]]> By: Old391http://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/07/21/murtha-grants-dod-tanker-options/#comment-11976 Old391 Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:56:14 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=8088#comment-11976 In the DefenseNews.com There was an article about the Saudis buying 3 more A330 Tankers to bring their tanker fleet up to 6. Maybe we can get gas from their tankers while we wait for the Air Force and Congress to make it ups mind as to what the new AF tanker will be. In the DefenseNews.com There was an article about the Saudis buying 3 more A330 Tankers to bring their tanker fleet up to 6. Maybe we can get gas from their tankers while we wait for the Air Force and Congress to make it ups mind as to what the new AF tanker will be.

]]> By: ReconTeamhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/07/21/murtha-grants-dod-tanker-options/#comment-11567 ReconTeam Mon, 27 Jul 2009 22:18:40 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=8088#comment-11567 At this point I don't care what the aircraft is. Yet the winner should not be chosen based on international politics or anything like that. Lets just get these aircraft produced, and get those old KC-135s retired. At this point I don’t care what the aircraft is. Yet the winner should not be chosen based on international politics or anything like that. Lets just get these aircraft produced, and get those old KC-135s retired.

]]> By: schlappyhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/07/21/murtha-grants-dod-tanker-options/#comment-11560 schlappy Mon, 27 Jul 2009 20:11:46 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=8088#comment-11560 Until the arrogant cheese eaters and their pacifist allies start putting some skin in the game of geopolitical conflicts...(I'm talking frontlines here)...than they shouldn't be rewarded in anyway with regards to US military contracts. Boeing's 767 is sufficient for tanker duties. Airbus's is overkill. If you Euro-lovers want overkill, than Boeing's 777 is the right choice. Until the arrogant cheese eaters and their pacifist allies start putting some skin in the game of geopolitical conflicts…(I’m talking frontlines here)…than they shouldn’t be rewarded in anyway with regards to US military contracts. Boeing’s 767 is sufficient for tanker duties. Airbus’s is overkill. If you Euro-lovers want overkill, than Boeing’s 777 is the right choice.

]]> By: Melbournehttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/07/21/murtha-grants-dod-tanker-options/#comment-11539 Melbourne Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:20:58 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=8088#comment-11539 All, Put all your BS to rest! The KC-45 (A-330) will be made in the US, with US workers. Only several of the Planes were actually made in EU and they are flying right now! It has proven it's worthiness by the Aussies for the last 5 years as a tanker. All mods will be in the US by US workers. If you think it's a French Plane, guess again! The proposed Boeing 767 "Frankenplane" is made by 10 different countries. It's also troubling that Boeing seems to have a history of not meeting schedule. The protest last year was to give them time to design something the Pentagon would bite into, NG is already in the air. Who will be profitting from the Northrop award......the Americans? Split the difference, see who makes a better plane and keep costs, overruns and scheduling within the contract. Mertha may have the right idea.....for once. All,
Put all your BS to rest!
The KC-45 (A-330) will be made in the US, with US workers. Only several of the Planes were actually made in EU and they are flying right now! It has proven it’s worthiness by the Aussies for the last 5 years as a tanker.
All mods will be in the US by US workers.
If you think it’s a French Plane, guess again! The proposed Boeing 767 “Frankenplane” is made by 10 different countries. It’s also troubling that Boeing seems to have a history of not meeting schedule.
The protest last year was to give them time to design something the Pentagon would bite into, NG is already in the air.
Who will be profitting from the Northrop award.…..the Americans?
Split the difference, see who makes a better plane and keep costs, overruns and scheduling within the contract.
Mertha may have the right idea.….for once.

]]> By: JDShttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/07/21/murtha-grants-dod-tanker-options/#comment-11355 JDS Fri, 24 Jul 2009 12:25:11 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=8088#comment-11355 Murtha is a crooked as a dog's hind leg. He bears close watching to insure he doesn't line his pocket as this tanker deal progresses. In all likelihood, Murtha will find ways for the coal-mining industry in his home district to, somehow, qualify for building sophisticated jet aircraft components.He's a disgrace as a Marine Reservist and doesn't deserve association with the eagle globe and anchor. Murtha is a crooked as a dog’s hind leg. He bears close watching to insure he doesn’t line his pocket as this tanker deal progresses. In all likelihood, Murtha will find ways for the coal-mining industry in his home district to, somehow, qualify for building sophisticated jet aircraft components.

He’s a disgrace as a Marine Reservist and doesn’t deserve association with the eagle globe and anchor.

]]> By: BS_Busterhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/07/21/murtha-grants-dod-tanker-options/#comment-11228 BS_Buster Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:10:36 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=8088#comment-11228 PF, you can deny all you want, I quoted Boeing on 737, 747, 767 & 777 parts made in China.And Joe, when it comes to American engineers, Boeing states, "Boeing works with three Chinese universities on wireless communication R&D." That must be why their “International” Federation of Professional and Technical Engineers Union has the "INTERNATIONAL" on the front of it? PF, you can deny all you want, I quoted Boeing on 737, 747, 767 & 777 parts made in China.

And Joe, when it comes to American engineers, Boeing states, “Boeing works with three Chinese universities on wireless communication R&D.” That must be why their “International” Federation of Professional and Technical Engineers Union has the “INTERNATIONAL” on the front of it?

]]> By: Old391http://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/07/21/murtha-grants-dod-tanker-options/#comment-11195 Old391 Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:30:06 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=8088#comment-11195 pfcem, You missed the point again like you always do. You could not BUY American if 1 component is made outside the US. To Buy American means all the "parts" are manufactured in the US. The 30% you mentioned still disqualifies as a Buy American under the rule. Your statement of "BUT Boeing retains full ability to produce said ‘parts’ if need be (although with significant delay & cost)." This would make the aircraft COST Prohibited. pfcem, You missed the point again like you always do. You could not BUY American if 1 component is made outside the US. To Buy American means all the “parts” are manufactured in the US. The 30% you mentioned still disqualifies as a Buy American under the rule. Your statement of “BUT Boeing retains full ability to produce said ‘parts’ if need be (although with significant delay & cost).” This would make the aircraft COST Prohibited.

]]> By: LockMartSkunkhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/07/21/murtha-grants-dod-tanker-options/#comment-11193 LockMartSkunk Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:16:52 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=8088#comment-11193 Quite the astute observation there US Cit, working with both design teams, BA is at best a flight simulation with some fanciful ideas and the promise that it can be built. NG is flying their jet around. . . you know. . . in the air.Pcfem, weren't you the moron that thought our export models were the same toys we made for the DoD? Quite the astute observation there US Cit, working with both design teams, BA is at best a flight simulation with some fanciful ideas and the promise that it can be built. NG is flying their jet around… you know… in the air.

Pcfem, weren’t you the moron that thought our export models were the same toys we made for the DoD?

]]> By: US citizenhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/07/21/murtha-grants-dod-tanker-options/#comment-11187 US citizen Thu, 23 Jul 2009 12:10:52 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=8088#comment-11187 NG has the Tanker plane flying now, Boeing's plane is still only on paper. NG has the Tanker plane flying now, Boeing’s plane is still only on paper.

]]> By: Joe Hhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/07/21/murtha-grants-dod-tanker-options/#comment-11166 Joe H Thu, 23 Jul 2009 09:33:42 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=8088#comment-11166 It is not just about the jobs in the manufacturing & assembly. What about all the engineers, accountants, secretaries, & such that Boeing employs to support such contracts. What about US & Washington State taxes? What does Boeing pay? Airbus? Then there is the vertical stabilizer separations on the Airbus aircaft that are being ignored by the aviation safety community? It is not just about the jobs in the manufacturing & assembly. What about all the engineers, accountants, secretaries, & such that Boeing employs to support such contracts. What about US & Washington State taxes? What does Boeing pay? Airbus? Then there is the vertical stabilizer separations on the Airbus aircaft that are being ignored by the aviation safety community?

]]>