Comments on: Intel Overload How-To http://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/07/27/intel-overload-test-in-mojave/ Online Defense and Acquisition Journal Thu, 09 Feb 2012 13:58:01 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: batmanintxhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/07/27/intel-overload-test-in-mojave/#comment-14838 batmanintx Fri, 02 Oct 2009 17:41:49 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=8230#comment-14838 JFCOM is a command with no troops in search of a mission. Like the proliferation of commands (and general officers) that has occurred since the 90's - this is just another example of a General with a staff and a big budget trying to "be involved". The problem isn't the volume of intel - its the bureacracy that collects and analyzes it being 17 layers of bureacracy removed from anyone who could possible use it. We've got 16 Intelligence Agencies and way too many Army, Corps, Division, Expeditionary, Task Force, and Joint Commands all climbing over each other to prove their worth and get that next star. We've only got a 10 division Army and our tooth to tail ratio is rapidly approaching 1:40 (more if you toss in the number of civilian agencies at work in Afgahnistan and Iraq). There are more General Officers on active duty today than were in all of World War II - its freakin' obvious what the real problem is - WE ARE IN OUR OWN WAY! Flatten the organization - eliminate half of the flag officer slots and all the sudden - everything will begin to get so much easier to accomplish and manage. When the business world realized that electronic communication and information systems revolutionized the way they could do business - they eliminated swathes of middle management and flattened their organizations and freed up lower level managers - the boom in productivity and business growth over the last 20-30 years that was the result is unparrelled in history. Funny how the military and government in the same time - with the same technology at its disposal actually ADDED middle manager - reduced the power of lower level leaders and increased the bureacracy at a rate almost directly parrallel to the productivity gains that were occurring in the private sector thus creating a situation where productivity in government/military DECREASED proportionately at the same rate. The problem isn't the amount of information - The problem is too many cooks in the kitchen. JFCOM is a command with no troops in search of a mission. Like the proliferation of commands (and general officers) that has occurred since the 90’s — this is just another example of a General with a staff and a big budget trying to “be involved”. The problem isn’t the volume of intel — its the bureacracy that collects and analyzes it being 17 layers of bureacracy removed from anyone who could possible use it. We’ve got 16 Intelligence Agencies and way too many Army, Corps, Division, Expeditionary, Task Force, and Joint Commands all climbing over each other to prove their worth and get that next star. We’ve only got a 10 division Army and our tooth to tail ratio is rapidly approaching 1:40 (more if you toss in the number of civilian agencies at work in Afgahnistan and Iraq). There are more General Officers on active duty today than were in all of World War II — its freakin’ obvious what the real problem is — WE ARE IN OUR OWN WAY! Flatten the organization — eliminate half of the flag officer slots and all the sudden — everything will begin to get so much easier to accomplish and manage. When the business world realized that electronic communication and information systems revolutionized the way they could do business — they eliminated swathes of middle management and flattened their organizations and freed up lower level managers — the boom in productivity and business growth over the last 20–30 years that was the result is unparrelled in history. Funny how the military and government in the same time — with the same technology at its disposal actually ADDED middle manager — reduced the power of lower level leaders and increased the bureacracy at a rate almost directly parrallel to the productivity gains that were occurring in the private sector thus creating a situation where productivity in government/military DECREASED proportionately at the same rate. The problem isn’t the amount of information — The problem is too many cooks in the kitchen.

]]> By: BeenTherehttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/07/27/intel-overload-test-in-mojave/#comment-11977 BeenThere Wed, 05 Aug 2009 18:05:25 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=8230#comment-11977 JFCOM is working a good concept that gets bogged down with too many ideas trying to deal with too many problems at the same time. Were they to take 'one bite of the elephant' at a time, this problem could be worked. As it is now, this, along with many Fleet Battle Experiments and other military Lab fantasies, will never get the job done. JFCOM is working a good concept that gets bogged down with too many ideas trying to deal with too many problems at the same time. Were they to take ‘one bite of the elephant’ at a time, this problem could be worked. As it is now, this, along with many Fleet Battle Experiments and other military Lab fantasies, will never get the job done.

]]> By: Navybrat111http://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/07/27/intel-overload-test-in-mojave/#comment-11677 Navybrat111 Wed, 29 Jul 2009 14:58:05 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=8230#comment-11677 The problem with Intel as is with most data collection, it is always time late, i.e., it is always in the past. Trying to forecast the future from past data has always been the reserve of soothsayers and witches. In combat, as in the stock market, by the time you enough data to solve the problem, the problem has already passed. The danger with data download is simply what was stated earlier - data overload. If you are operating inside the "reaction loop" of the opposition then you can outmanuever, outgun, and out-stratigize him to the point where he becomes ineffective as a fighting force. With too much data, you become burdened with "analyzing" the problem rather than "executing" the winning move, i.e., you are outside the "reaction loop" of the opponent. Let's figure what data the guy on the field needs and limit him that - the technology end will solve itself once we know what is required. The problem with Intel as is with most data collection, it is always time late, i.e., it is always in the past. Trying to forecast the future from past data has always been the reserve of soothsayers and witches. In combat, as in the stock market, by the time you enough data to solve the problem, the problem has already passed. The danger with data download is simply what was stated earlier — data overload. If you are operating inside the “reaction loop” of the opposition then you can outmanuever, outgun, and out-stratigize him to the point where he becomes ineffective as a fighting force. With too much data, you become burdened with “analyzing” the problem rather than “executing” the winning move, i.e., you are outside the “reaction loop” of the opponent. Let’s figure what data the guy on the field needs and limit him that — the technology end will solve itself once we know what is required.

]]> By: Chief Houstonhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/07/27/intel-overload-test-in-mojave/#comment-11672 Chief Houston Wed, 29 Jul 2009 14:07:23 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=8230#comment-11672 One of the potential problems with this much info downloaded to an operator, can be demonstrated in the new F-18 pilot helmet display. It becomes difficult to maintain situational awareness and as the pilots call it, you can be a "tumbleweed" rolling along not networked, since you are lost in the info. One of the potential problems with this much info downloaded to an operator, can be demonstrated in the new F-18 pilot helmet display. It becomes difficult to maintain situational awareness and as the pilots call it, you can be a “tumbleweed” rolling along not networked, since you are lost in the info.

]]> By: Bearhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/07/27/intel-overload-test-in-mojave/#comment-11618 Bear Tue, 28 Jul 2009 17:47:18 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=8230#comment-11618 Hey guys am all for more info on the battle field. I really want to know what around the next street corner and have option to run offence with a killer defense if I need it. The big problem to me with the operator on the video end and the guy on the ground trusting someone he does not know judgment. I don’t thank we are ever going to find a magic pill to say or the fix all to fixes. To address the filter problem it can never be solved really in non convention warfare, know if the bad guy would wear uniform it be a different soldier. Also we are started talking about how much money these NEW toys cost? Don`t get me wrong am 110% for them and hope we figure out how to put this Toy in play on the battlefield. But we must not forget it still takes boots on ground and those boots need to understand and know how to use the basic of fighting before we bring in more toys. Hey guys am all for more info on the battle field. I really want to know what around the next street corner and have option to run offence with a killer defense if I need it. The big problem to me with the operator on the video end and the guy on the ground trusting someone he does not know judgment. I don’t thank we are ever going to find a magic pill to say or the fix all to fixes. To address the filter problem it can never be solved really in non convention warfare, know if the bad guy would wear uniform it be a different soldier. Also we are started talking about how much money these NEW toys cost? Don‘t get me wrong am 110% for them and hope we figure out how to put this Toy in play on the battlefield. But we must not forget it still takes boots on ground and those boots need to understand and know how to use the basic of fighting before we bring in more toys.

]]> By: IKEhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/07/27/intel-overload-test-in-mojave/#comment-11583 IKE Tue, 28 Jul 2009 08:50:23 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=8230#comment-11583 This could be an opportunity where life could emmulate art in that filtering the data to give cues and maps similar to first person shooter games could be a big advantage from a training battle standpoint. the biggest difference would be getting the surveillance to be able to filter out foes from innocents. P.S. - Sorry, forgot to tell you great post! This could be an opportunity where life could emmulate art in that filtering the data to give cues and maps similar to first person shooter games could be a big advantage from a training battle standpoint. the biggest difference would be getting the surveillance to be able to filter out foes from innocents.
P.S. — Sorry, forgot to tell you great post!

]]> By: IKEhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/07/27/intel-overload-test-in-mojave/#comment-11563 IKE Mon, 27 Jul 2009 21:34:26 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=8230#comment-11563 This could be an opportunity where life could emmulate art in that filtering the data to give cues and maps similar to first person shooter games could be a big advantage from a training battle standpoint. the biggest difference would be getting the surveillance to be able to filter out foes from innocents. This could be an opportunity where life could emmulate art in that filtering the data to give cues and maps similar to first person shooter games could be a big advantage from a training battle standpoint. the biggest difference would be getting the surveillance to be able to filter out foes from innocents.

]]> By: Chief Houstonhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/07/27/intel-overload-test-in-mojave/#comment-11552 Chief Houston Mon, 27 Jul 2009 18:59:22 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=8230#comment-11552 Joint Forces Command is on target with filtering the recon info to a condensed and timely format for the squad and fire team leaders.I just do not understand why we could not get to this point much earlier in the game. Transformation probably meant something else under Rumsfeld like creating a big vacuum cleaner of bandwidth with netcentric priority, but for what effectiveness level?Integration of condensed info into helmet visor displays rather than voice or concurrent with limited voice comms would probably be the best way to go.My priority would be to get to a flanking position as soon as possible, if I had the up to the minute intel and the situation allowed me to have the ability to move people earlier than I would have been able to without the accurate intel. Blocking moves, etc. can be had, if you know the Modus Oper. of that particular enemy cell.All this leads to the fact that we have to have the autonomy of motion allowed under decentralized command structures, operators willing to risk action for the advantage move in a tactical situation. Joint Forces Command is on target with filtering the recon info to a condensed and timely format for the squad and fire team leaders.

I just do not understand why we could not get to this point much earlier in the game. Transformation probably meant something else under Rumsfeld like creating a big vacuum cleaner of bandwidth with netcentric priority, but for what effectiveness level?

Integration of condensed info into helmet visor
displays rather than voice or concurrent with limited voice comms would probably be the best way to go.

My priority would be to get to a flanking position as soon as possible, if I had the up to the minute intel and the situation allowed me to have the ability to move people earlier than I would have been able to without the accurate intel. Blocking moves, etc. can be had, if you know the Modus Oper. of that particular enemy cell.

All this leads to the fact that we have to have the autonomy of motion allowed under decentralized command structures, operators willing to risk action for the advantage move in a tactical situation.

]]> By: BuddhalovesPainehttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/07/27/intel-overload-test-in-mojave/#comment-11550 BuddhalovesPaine Mon, 27 Jul 2009 18:27:09 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=8230#comment-11550 Of course to the defenders of the status quo this technology comes just in time. So many Americans think that everything in America is hunky dory any change, let alone a radical change, would be a bad thing. Of course to the defenders of the status quo this technology comes just in time. So many Americans think that everything in America is hunky dory any change, let alone a radical change, would be a bad thing.

]]> By: BuddhalovesPainehttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/07/27/intel-overload-test-in-mojave/#comment-11549 BuddhalovesPaine Mon, 27 Jul 2009 17:36:50 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=8230#comment-11549 I admit this is really scary, 1984 comes to reality. I really can not see how any insurgency will be able to adopt to this technology other than limit themselves to to an occasional indoor assassination. I said in another post on another thread which was removed a short time ago that the US may not be the most evil force in the world but it is the strongest force for evil. That no doubt was more than some people could take even though I have many reasons for believing that. Many conservatives like to throw around the phrase that power corrupts and absolute power corrupt absolutely. Do they think that they are immune from such temptations? Of course real conservatives like real men and women would never accept an empire in place of a republic. Turnips for sale, potatoes and carrots too. I admit this is really scary, 1984 comes to reality. I really can not see how any insurgency will be able to adopt to this technology other than limit themselves to to an occasional indoor assassination.
I said in another post on another thread which was removed a short time ago that the US may not be the most evil force in the world but it is the strongest force for evil. That no doubt was more than some people could take even though I have many reasons for believing that.
Many conservatives like to throw around the phrase that power corrupts and absolute power corrupt absolutely. Do they think that they are immune from such temptations? Of course real conservatives like real men and women would never accept an empire in place of a republic.
Turnips for sale, potatoes and carrots too.

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