Iran Nukes Make Strange Bedfellows

Iran Nukes Make Strange Bedfellows

When I did my first story about Israeli capabilities for striking Iran’s nuclear sites it was 2006 and the consensus view was that Israel might well try a strike someday but probably not just yet.

The focus of my story then was an interesting paper by two MIT grad students about Israeli’s strike capabilities. How things have changed.

Today, time is short. The Israeli press reports that a decision must be made by spring next year . By then, the Jerusalem Post says, “Israel will know the results of the dialogue between the world’s leading powers and Iran that is scheduled to begin on October 1, as well as whether the world will impose real, tough sanctions.”

Saudi Arabia is reported to have given Israel the green light to fly through its airspace during a raid against Iran. The Financial Times reported Tuesday that the Saudis are using their oil money to entice Russia into banning sales to Iran of advanced surface to air missile in return for an arms deal worth up to $11.1 billion that would include purchase of Russia’s most advanced air defense system, the S-400.

All this comes in the wake of the allies’ declaration that Iran had developed a hidden site and not informed the International Atomic Energy Agency or anyone else about it.

Who could imagine Saudi giving Israel the green light to attack a fellow Muslim state? And how unlikely is the Saudis offer to buy lots of Russian gear to encourage Vladimir Putin to put a hold on selling to Iran? Of course, the Saudis would get one of the world’s top air defense systems (just ask F-22 supporters) but they have traditionally given their business to the US, Britain and France. Imagine how excited the Russians must be with the prospect of sending lots of technicians into Saudi Arabia to spy — I mean install and maintain the S-400 — on the royal family and its military.

Does all this mean the Israelis are on the cusp of a strike — or series of strikes — against Iran? That is what the DIA and CIA folks are getting paid to assess and I don’t frankly know much about our analysis of Israeli intent. But the public signs seem pretty clear that a strike has been planned and could be executed at any time, especially when you take into account the fact that senior Pentagon officials have been warning the Israelis against such a move and are privately deeply concerned that their message is not being taken as seriously as it might be.

Would Iran be quiescent in the wake of an Israeli strike? Or would the Persian nation rise up in anger and strike at US assets and allies? If I were ayatollah I would use Hezbollah to strike at Israeli and US targets, giving me a tiny bit of deniability. As long as Israeli intelligence was as thorough as usual and its pilots as effective and no particularly holy mosques or orphanages were destroyed, I think the Iranian reaction would be extremely loud but would not include overt Iranian military responses against the US. They might well try and fire some missiles at Israel but Iran’s conduct has been so deceitful that few countries would support an Iranian response.

Over the long haul, perhaps the hardest question to answer is how Iran’s people would respond. They might rise against their own regime on the basis that it could not protect them against Israel and had sullied their country’s good name in the international community. After all, there is clear evidence of enormous discontent among the Iranians with their current rulers.

Or Israel and the great Satan might once again become arch foes of the largely Shi’a Persians. The US has labored mightily to let the world know that we publicly oppose an Israeli strike and prefer sanctions that might topple the regime, but the arc of crisis has never been known as a place where reason holds a tight grip on public sentiment. And an Israeli strike might be enough to drive its less rational actors to extreme measures. Of such judgments are careers made and broken, and history books written.

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A few guesses: an external attack would drive the Iranian people further into the hardliner’s embraces. An external attack has always resulted in a wave of nationalism – think back to Sep 11, 2001. Think back to Pearl Harbor. To separate the people and the radicals in government – do not give them a common enemy.

If an attack happened, and the population was united with the government – could they contain the anger and avoid the pressure to strike??? Probably not. Given that, is there a close potential target, where American troops (a good substitute for Israelis in many minds there) are tied down? Where possibly combat troops are being pulled out, to be replaced with trainers? How about Iraq! A strike there could also help contain Kurdish aspirations, could pummel a few Sunni groups, allow a strike on the Iranian opposition, …

My prediction is that an Israeli strike on Ira would be followed by a popular invasion of Iraq. Does it make sense? NO! But it might happen.

Screw’em. Blow them and their Hezbullah brothers back into the stone age. Hell they were probably giong to blow themselves or others up sooner or later so why not have our handy-man in the region take care of it for us. And although hezbullah might start another missile barrage against Israel, I’m sure if the Israeli military really went balls to the wall there, and weren’t hampered by the UN, we wouldn’t have to hear about Hezbullah for a long time. I’m all for the Jews cleaning up that neck of the woods and it’s time for the rest of the world to “Nut up or shut up” (thank you Zombieland)

Charles Phillips,

Great points. There is one other possibility — Iran could make Afghanistan much messier than it is now. They’ve fiddled along their joint border in the past quite effectively.

Let the UN make the inspection and verdict and be prepared for any unforseen attacks and war.

Today, time is short. The Israeli press reports that a decision must be made by spring next year . By then, the Jerusalem Post says, “Israel will know the results of the dialogue between the world’s leading powers and Iran that is scheduled to begin on October 1, as well as whether the world will impose real, tough sanctions.”
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This is how many years late in coming? They should have considered this the first day news broke of the secrete Iranian program. All they are going to manage now is “perhaps” delay the Iranians while messing up our dealings in the region.

Saudi Arabia is reported to have given Israel the green light to fly through its airspace during a raid against Iran. The Financial Times reported Tuesday that the Saudis are using their oil money to entice Russia into banning sales to Iran of advanced surface to air missile in return for an arms deal worth up to $11.1 billion that would include purchase of Russia’s most advanced air defense system, the S-400.
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What a crock. The Russians never intended to sell these things to the Iranians or they would have done it by now. The Russians were using the news of this long protracted sale as leverage with the U.S. to end missile defense in Poland and the Czech Republic.

Over the long haul, perhaps the hardest question to answer is how Iran’s people would respond. They might rise against their own regime on the basis that it could not protect them against Israel and had sullied their country’s good name in the international community. After all, there is clear evidence of enormous discontent among the Iranians with their current rulers.
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Why would the Iranian people will overthrow their government in the wake of a strike, when most believe Iran has a right to nuclear power? The only people indulging in this wishful thinking are people in favor of a strike.

The Green Revolution hardly speaks for the entire population, and in the wake of a strike, could rally the governments support in rural areas, while giving the Revolutionary Guard and police an excuse to crack down and bust heads.

One thing is for sure. Israel will not strike against Iran without any clear go from US. Neither, and this is the most important; Israel does not have the capability to bust bunkers. To strike on the surface may just setback the production by hours, best case weeks. And then it will be a big media jippo for the government of Iran that could have TV teams showing the intect facilities underground. What we need is a clear go from the international community to strike at the facilities. For that reason heavy B2 bombers are needed than can penetrate layer upon layer of stone, gravel, reinforced concrete, maybe hundreds of meeters underground. What should be left if just a big crater hundreds of meters deep. Not a single piece of centrifuge or other machinery must be left intact. Only then, the Iranian people will know (for sure) that their aspirations as a nuclear power has failed.
This should have been done long time ago with the North Koreans as well. It was a huge mistake by the Bush administration not to take out the North Korean facility before they where able to make the bomb. Now we dont know where they can hide it, and therefore we run the uncertanty of hitting the wrong target. Peter.

blah blah blah just rock iran before they do it first. Period.

We need not forget the dynamic of the Sunni/Shia relationship. If the Israeli’s use Saudi (Sunni) airspace to strike Iran (Shia)- it could begin a larger regional war between the sects of Islam. For hundreds of years the Shia were oppressed by the Sunni and with the Islamic revolution and the now nuclearization of Iran has given the Shia a stronghold. With Iraq now dominated by Shia, this religous minority has now become a major player in the region. There are some who speculate that if Iran has a bomb, or aspires to have a bomb, their motivation is more for generating leverage over Sunnis than to cause devastation to Israel. They know full well that the latter would cause global outcry and undoubtly lead to the annhilation of Iran.

An Israeli attack – maybe it will work, maybe it won’t. But if the intelligence analysis is strong and reliable enough to point that this terrorist-head-of-state who denies the Holocaust wants to destroy Israel, they HAVE NO CHOICE but to strike first.

The fact that the Saudies are cooperating, being a mostly business-motivated regime, is an indication that they recognize the danger of these fanatics, and the damage they cause the whole Muslim world. And if they recognize it — it will be foolish for the Western world to ignore.

Lastly, Col. Phillips, much as I tend to agree with most of your analysis, you have one very basic, fundamental flaw there: 9/11, Pearl Harbor, etc., are NOT valid scenarios for comparison; their thinking is NOT the same as that of the Western world. You cannot predict their response based on what the America people did. They have very different morals. They will slaughter their own if it servers their purpose; they will cheer you as a savior and kiss your feet as long as they get what they want — but then they’ll stab your back when they get a chance to do it. They respect power, and they view compassion and leniency as weakness.

They are constantly lying and cheating, just to get their way. Ahmadinijad’s conduct throughout this crisis is a perfect demo.

If you want to take valid scenarios to learn from, take this:
The Palestinians were ever so thankful for the American’s help — money and hardware — but they went out to the streets to cheer and celebrate when the jets hit the towers on 9/11. Remember that.

“an external attack would drive the Iranian people further into the hardliner’s embraces. An external attack has always resulted in a wave of nationalism” I remember back in 1978 when the population was asked to walk across the minefields so that the infantry could attack Iraqi positions. All it took was a piece of paper saying that the bearer will go to heaven if killed.

When you have nothing, you have nothing to lose.

Lemme see, Sadam`s nuclear, strike one; Syria`s nuclear, strike 2; Iran`s nuclear could be strike 3, ball game over, Yankees win the pennant, Davidka fastballer gets the win, ERA:0, Saudi catcher called the pitches on the Qum corners; Stats: Iran: no runs no hits lotsa errors; whole team on DL permanently, manager Iranwegonnagivuajab fired, really fired

Let’s support the Israelis in whatever they decide. After all, they are the ones who are most at risk. All the Arab world is scared of Iran and are hoping they will go away. Iran is at the brink and their people are very unhappy. As soon as some country stands up the those religious idiots Iran will fold. God help us all and bless America and the men and women who defend it.

LCL Phillips, I have to disagree with you. Comparing the building of nukes with the stated intention of using same against the US and Israel is a hell of a lot different that the actions of the pre-9/11 US. We had a reason to become nationalistic as we weren’t threatening anybody. Au contraire’ we’d been tucking our tail ever since Reagan. (Worked well, huh?). With the Iranians it could go either way as the actions of their leaders are what called down the lightning on Iran. When a nation says to another nation “I’m building nukes and will use them on you as soon as they’re done” that second nation would have to be as insane as obama to NOT utilize a first strike to see that said threat doesn’t come to be. The Jews paid the price of inaction one time. I’d have to believe that “Never again” means something still. Go Get’ em. Israel!
Peter. you’re wrong about Israel not having bunker busters. They have nukes and if you do a little research, you’ll see that bunker busters are easy enough to make. All it takes is gun/howitzer barrels and a detonating charge. A tungsten nose is an asset but not absolutely essential. If that “detonating charge” is a small nuke, the rocks shielding of the hole-in-the-ground is going to transmit the shock of the blast to the underground structure as the fission/fusion blast moves through the tunnels. That’ll have them all singing “I feel the earth, move under my feet” as the place comes in on them as they’re vaporized by the fireball

Iran clear objective is to disrupt any and all peaceful and economical changes in the region. Allowing Iraq to become an econmical force with its vast untapped wealth and the US backing them is a tremendos threat to the socialist world. So they too will continue to erode any progress atained in that environment. Iran claim of power to control the vast Persian empire and its wealth in fosile fuels are gone. This is the time of soveirgnty of all nations, but those who threaten the distruction of others for who they are and their beliefs, should be retaliated against by a similar or more letal force, allowing others to defend themselves against threats by all means neccessary.

pretty speculative and useless article…

What are the USA is going 2 do about it ????
Are Isrel alon in this problem ????

“Imagine how excited the Russians must be with the prospect of sending lots of technicians into Saudi Arabia to spy — I mean install and maintain the S-400 — on the royal family and its military.”xxx
Actually, I can imagine a bidding war between the persians and arabs.
I can also see a reluctance in the russian side to sell top shelf systems to US allies.
The Russians could aquire that warm water port somewhere in the gulf, they were purportedly seeking back in the ’80’s, during that adventure in A’stan.
Looks like they may be in the drivers seat here.

I can’t see any military action against Iran that would not result in a disaster for the US in Iraq. Every weapon that Hezbollah has in Lebanon would flood into Iraq and Afghanistan – NV gear, modern antiarmor missiles, MANPADS, whatever might be desired by anyone killing Americans, wherever found. I don’t think that Iraq’s fragile unity would survive; at the very least, a sizeable part of the Shia community might take up arms against the US again and against any national government allied with us.
Renewed civil war takes us back three or four years; our efforts fail, and that’s an end to it. Damage assessment would require putting people on the ground, on-site, unless we or the Israelis make generous use of nuclear weapons from the start. Now you need a significant presence on the ground, with the casualties that this carries. The location of Iranian nuclear facilities near densely populated urban areas guarantees huge civilian casualties; the notion that the Iranians would then rise against their own government is bizarre. Given the fragility of the world economy, the disruption of the world’s oil traffic would bring on worldwide depression. …. the sad truth is that we have no choice but to live with Iranian nuclear weapons, and rely on MAD for safety as we did in the past with the Russians. Israel has the same MAD security from Iranian attack as we do, and the same lack of options.

Brian, just a few points that I feel need correction or adjustment in your view of this crisis:

1. The Hezbollah is a relatively small organization, and even if every weapon they have in Lebanon “would flood into Iraq and Afghanistan”‘ it will be a negligible addition to what’s already there; besides — whatever the Hezbollah has, it came from Iran to begin with.

2. Once the US leaves Iraq, it’s only a matter of time until the “fragile unity” collapses; with or without an Iranian conflict. The people there don’t really want, not can they sustain a true democracy.

3. Actually, most of Iran’s nuclear facilities are quite isolated from the dense population areas.

4. “the disruption of the world’s oil traffic would bring on worldwide depression” this is one of the most baseless, grim prophecies I heard in a long time.

5. Last, yet most important: the MAD strategy only works for regimes that at least semi-rational. Unlike with the Russians, you are dealing here with people who sanctify death and suicide.
You CANNOT ignore the possibility that the Iranian leaders are willing to trade their life for the opportunity to become the Shahids who will forever be remembered and glorified as those who annihilated the state of the Jews.

The sad truth is that we have no choice, but we CANNOT LIVE with Iranian nuclear weapons.

Peace.

It saddens me to see that so many of my fellow Americans have been blinded and brainwashed by the mainstream media. Does anyone here have any idea what is happening behind closed doors? Do any of you realize that what is presented to the public is nothing more than an elaborate Broadway show? Do you truly believe that the people "in charge" are working in our best interests?

Today everyone is griping about Iran. Tomorrow, if the mainstream media portrays Israel as being the bad guy, then everyone will get distracted and ignore Iran so they can start griping about Israel. And the same will be true if the media portrays England, Canada, or the Magic friggin Kingdom as the bad guy. Doesn't matter who it is..If Rupert Murdoch says you're bad, then by golly that's the gospel.

If you're not a billionaire, the closest thing to an "ally" you have is your neighbor. All of this fear-mongering, hate-mongering, war-mongering and blood lust is exactly what the hidden script writers want…Divide and conquer.

David wrote: "We had a reason to become nationalistic as we weren't threatening anybody"

This is a comment that betrays the typical ignorant American attitude. – sigh –

Dear boy: in the world outside your US borders, the US *is* largely seen as a threath and has been so for decades. But the typical world-weary American seems absolutely ignorant about that.

You all seem to think that you are generously bringing the absolute "good" to people, who are all craving to receive it. You are completely ignorant of the fact that most people don't *want* your "goodness", if alone because you force-feed it to people perfectly happy with their own ways of things.

It is this ignorance that is brought back to you in the shape of body bags comming from hell holes such as Vietnam and Iraq where your soldiers end up paying the bill of your naivete. Don't you really get it?

Really, I love Americans but they are so unbelievably naive and ignorant about the world around them. If you think your country was never threathening anyone up to 9/11, you are incredibily naive.

I agree with Joe Blow from Kokomo.
Why wait?
Approve (even encourage) a strike, and let 'em go.
The UN sanctions are a joke, and the Iranian Gvt knows it.
A strike will be an awakening for them. A strike is serious.
The world hates the USA, and Israel. Period.
Time for them to fear us.

the only reason americans are seing as a threat in so many places is because those countrys want to destroy american allies in the region

Im sure you would think very diferrently if you where speaking german and working in a slave camp

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