Comments on: Army Pushes Precision Mortar

By: DirtyDeuce

DirtyDeuce — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 18:41:18 +0000

This definately is a 60mm or maybe an 82mm application. Nobody humps 120’s — too big, heavy, and cumbersome to be used anywhere but small FOB’s and outposts as a defensive measure or to support nearby patrols (and thats REALLY nearby as 120’s only shoot around 7000 meters).

Even 82’s are big, and are never carried at the Platoon level, usually only at the Company level, but thats still not that common. Also 82mm rounds are heavy as hell, and those rounds are hell to hump around when you’re dismounted.

Better to stick with the 60mm. Use GPS as a back up guidance system. Even with all our technology, there is a reason we still teach new Soldiers how to land nav with a map and compass — GPS doesn’t work in a lot of place, Afghanistan being a good one! Being Signifigantly mountain terrain, you won’t get a GPS signal and now your precision mortar has been turned dumb again. And your mortar team probably didnt hump a baseplate, and can’t hit a damn thing past 800m with it.

So make it laser guided, perhaps integrate it to work with the peq-15’s and have it be operational on a specific setting for it, so any Soldier can direct fire danger close if necessary, but can also utilize their individual laser to engage targets in low vis but not interfere with the FO designating targets. Put the same laser on Predators and you have non LOS mortar capability with no danger to the mortar team, and an effective counter battery platform as well.

My .02

By: catekarvn

catekarvn — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 19:48:24 +0000

Stick with the 60mm. ‚its mobile and it does not need a baseplate. Sure you have to do some dead reckoning and you will still walk the rounds in. It is simple and easy to deploy! Its still can be used effectivly.

By: pennst98

pennst98 — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 16:50:46 +0000

Given our tactical/operational situations this sounds like a good concept..

My only concern is that we pay too much for a modest upgrade in precision. For once I’m not up to speed with the number of rounds it takes to neutralize a target; or how they use them in given tactical situations.

PROBLEM ONE: We’re already pretty good.

We may already be pretty efficient with conventional munitions. So if we can usually hit 70% of the time with an 120mm $15K round, the upgrade just makes things more expensive and complicated. (Occam’s Razer) The complexity too much be considered when reliability is factored in. What if the warhead malfunctions? Does it fly like a conventional munition?

PROBLEM TWO: The ACTUAL (not theoretical) uses of mortars in theater.

If we are doing lots of precision mortar strikes and spending 5–6 120mm to take out the enemy; then this is a no brainer. On the other hand sometimes (like artiller) you send off a bunch of rounds in an area attack to cover movement or suppress the enemy. In these cases you’re just increasing your costs dramatically without upgrading capabilities.

By: T H

T H — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 18:15:50 +0000

Back in the 1980s, Martin Marietta Orlando was producing laser guided munitions, including some with shaped charges. These were shot out of cannons and could seek laser designated targets within their range. The technology had already been hardened to withstand the high “g” forces associated with firing the shell. I imagine that handheld or airborne laser designators could “light up” the target quite accurately. Adapting the shell to a mortar configuration shouldn’t be rocket science.

By: Camp

Camp — Wed, 07 Oct 2009 00:09:20 +0000

"Firefight in The Chowkay Valley, Afghanistan Feb 18 2008" http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1b2_1227138086

By: Byron Skinner

Byron Skinner — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 20:42:30 +0000

Good Afternoon Folks,

This sounds great, just do it. That said you can have a mortar with dead on accuracy but without real time IRS information coming directly to the platoon or squad it’s all worthless.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

By: chris

chris — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 18:28:19 +0000

Aren’t the urban and mountain terrain mission two very different missions?
In urban terrain a primary concern is reducing civilian casualties. So we need ever more precise targeting and ever smaller munitions with ever smaller warheads.
With FOBs in mountain terrain we don’t have that problem. Big explosions are fine. The problem is lack of range and firepower. All we have are mortars, but they can’t provide enough volume of fires … so we need them precise.

By: CT_Woods

CT_Woods — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 15:52:49 +0000

The USMC has already a precision 120mm mortar, labeled the Expeditionary Fire Support System (EFSS). Includes precision rifled rounds with GPS accuracy, but can also fire standard non-rifled 120mm mortar rounds from the US inventory. Per a discussion this past May at Fleet Week NYC with a USMC artillery 2LT, it has been been fielded within a line USMC artillery unit, and is in active operational / training use. Yes, it also seems to include a rather silly, over-priced and top-heavy mini-Jeep to tow the sucker that was designed to be transported on an Osprey. Word from the 2LT: “We’ll just tow it with a Hum-vee”.
No word then on plans for deployment, although this weapon would seem a logical fit for the Afghan fight. Are there lessons to be learned from, and technology transferred from the EFSS to this Army effort for smarter mortars? And given the fight(s) we are in today, why has the move to get smarter mortars so long a’ coming?

By: WarScientist

WarScientist — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 15:42:53 +0000

Probably the fastest, easiest way of getting precision arty fire would be to use GPS guided mortar rounds combined with a spotter scope.

The spotter scope in this case (example the Vectonix Vector IV Nite) uses the laser range finder, digital 3D compass and GPS unit to determine its own position and then work out the exact location of your target.
All that would be needed to be transmitted would be a set of GPS coordinates which would then direct the mortar round directly onto your target.

Depending on network architecture, communication protocols and distance to target, you should be able to get a precision round on target within 2–3 minutes of spotting your enemy.

Precision guidance is also going to be a requirement for mortar rounds in future conflict as that is the only way they will be viable for use in urban environments.