US Losing Space Race

US Losing Space Race

The nation that made it to the Moon in 12 years now struggles to build a satellite in that time and is at risk of losing its preeminence in space.

Those words come from one of the top four space intelligence lawmakers on Capitol Hill, Rep. Dutch Ruppersberger, chairman of the House Select technical and tactical intelligence subcommittee, who spoke before an audience of some 1,200 intelligence practitioners and industry at the Geoint annual conference in San Antonio, Texas.

Ruppersburger noted that 20 years ago the U.S. had 70 percent of the commercial satellite market which is now down to 27 percent. The country faces serious risks to its launch industry, he said, noting that France continues to build new launchers and improve its technologies.


“Their companies are getting stronger and ours are getting weaker,” he said.

It isn’t just commercial communications satellites and space exploration where the US is fading. A string of enormous and nearly complete failures in developing intelligence satellites has left the administration and Congress exceedingly wary of funding new programs, such as the new spy satellite program approved in April by President Obama. “We can’t afford any more failures,” he said.

The Pentagon has gotten the message. “We are going to have to stop having faith-based acquisition,” said Gil Klinger, director of space and intelligence capabilities for OSD’s acquisition and technology shop. “The Air Force and the NRO, given an enlightened opportunity, will dig us out of this hole.”

To address those fundamental issues, Ruppersberger convened a series of informal hearings to probe into just what went wrong and how to fix it.

He said there were several broad areas that needed fixing.

Top of the list is arms export reform. The so-called ITAR laws and regulations that govern what American companies can sell to foreign countries have crippled the US industry.

“Over time the policies meant to protect us are having the opposite effect,” the lawmaker said.

Funding for research and development “must be increased and happen before manufacturing starts.”

Commercial satellite imagery must be considered as a viable alternative or supplement to hugely expensive spy satellites.

[Full disclosure: The USGIF, which puts on Geoint, paid for our air travel and hotel to cover this event. Thanks to them for the photo of the congressman.]

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Geez, what do you expect? NASA’s budget was slashed, while the funds we’re directed to the Military Satellites that will be put up over the next 5–10 years. America’s satellites are more Militarized then commerical oriented nowadays. However, I wouldn’t worry about the US losing Space domination, we landed on the moon in the 60’s, god only knows what they have been working on over the past 40 years. No country has landed on the Moon, and the US has already had a robot on Mars. Jesus, don’t break a sweat over this.

Also, don’t forget to mention we have sent probes to the edge of our Solar System, and the ChiComs don’t even have a shuttle yet. How is this even a stroy? Fear-Mongering is very powerful, and that’s the gameplan this guy is using. Simple, if you scare people, you will get your funding. ie: when your Defnese Budget goes from $200 Billion to almost $800 Billion in only 9 years, proves when you play emotions, you get what you want.

I think thats the point of the article, our failed attempts mean we have very little to show for 40 years of developement, we have 40 years of under performing “successes” and a lot of failures that have allowed other nations to make gains that close the performance gaps. These foreign nations have made their gains through successes in the commercial market as well as the markets our industry are limited from as a result of ITAR.

Well, don’t look for increased funding under Benedict Obama.

Only the unions and political cronies get money under Dear Leader. Now if the satellite industry starts making some payoffs to Rangel, Pelosi, SEIU, and Obama … then maybe we can talk. This is the New America, baby, ya gotta pay if you want to play.

Reading news on this site is turning me into such a cynic — I may have to stop!

This news just convinces me that Rep Dutch Ruppersberger is another one of those people that loves to scare us. My experience since 1978 with the Air Force space business (working with the black world a lot) and with NASA programs tells me that the world is a far more complex place today than it was 20 years ago!! A statement that the US had 70 percent of the commercial satellite market does not explain that the market has changed so much in 20 years. Let’s look at mid-1989 — the Shuttle had returned to flight and had recently stopped planning to carry all commercial satellites (Pres Reagan announced that right after the Challenger accident report). The Soviets (remember them???) did not fly commerical satellites and that market would be changing a lot until early 1990s. ESA (they are NOT the same as France!!) had the Ariane and that was more of a medium lift vehicle. It did not compete (as I recall) with the Titan (which was still flying). The USA was still flying the Atlas and Delta in well understood conditions.
The NRO and NSA had well understood targets, and were building spacecraft that were parts of series.

part 2
The era of consolidation and competition had not yet started. International companies did not have the choice of Proton, Long March, Atlas, Ariane, or Delta. The targets that the spooks worried about were well understood — there was no need to innovate much to find moving targets, etc. The emphasis was keep the well oiled machine running.

We could drastically reduce the cost of reconnaissance programs by building slightly improved versions of existing vehicles — in the existing labs. Don’t give a new company the chance to bid on contracts and don’t try to build a new type of satellite.

We just have to accept that our rocket builders have evolved to NOT be competitive, not be marketers. They are comfortable in their ways and will react slowly to changed market conditions. This leaves openings for Ariane, Proton, Falcon, whatever. In time, some of the market share will come back but as long as the satellites get launched and get on orbit, we do not need to dominate the market for launch. As long as we have assured ways to get our people and satellites to orbit (this is the subject of another reply!!) we are ok.

One last thought — the AF and NRO can dig us out of the hole — but who got us into it??? They did of course. Nice when you can get a big salary boost to fix problems — that you created in the first place.

part 2
The era of consolidation and competition had not yet started. International companies did not have the choice of Proton, Long March, Atlas, Ariane, or Delta. The targets that the spooks worried about were well understood — there was no need to innovate much to find moving targets, etc. The emphasis was keep the well oiled machine running.

Today, we could drastically reduce the cost of reconnaissance programs by building slightly improved versions of existing vehicles — in the existing labs. Don’t give a new company the chance to bid on contracts and don’t try to build a new type of satellite.

We just have to accept that our rocket builders have evolved to NOT be competitive, not be marketers. They are comfortable in their ways and will react slowly to changed market conditions. This leaves openings for Ariane, Proton, Falcon, whatever. In time, some of the market share will come back but as long as the satellites get launched and get on orbit, we do not need to dominate the market for launch. As long as we have assured ways to get our people and satellites to orbit (this is the subject of another reply!!) we are ok.

One last thought — the AF and NRO can dig us out of the hole — but who got us into it??? They did of course. Nice when you can get a big salary boost to fix problems — that you created in the first place.

Good Afternoon Folks,

Some interesting comments by Congressman that raise some questions, first question is I guess is exactly who is the United States in a Space Race with? What is the goal/objective that we are trying to win?

What is real, is that the United States is at war(s) and should be channeling our resources, including Space to winning to winning those wars. Military and Intelligence requirements should take present over NASA. NASA and the civilian contractors who live or die by the money in NASA’s budget will have to like the men and women weather the storm.

Congressman Ruppersberger’s statements are out of line, at best they show a lack of judgement on the Congressman’s part and leaves a hint of corruption from the Space industry.

While there have been some failures in launches and in satellites of late, and I’m sure there are more that we civilians haven’t been told about, the use of Space, by its very nature has prompted the DoD to created a Space Command equal to theater commands is an indication of how important Space is to the war fighting efforts in the combat theaters of operation.

As for the Congressman’s statements regarding other countries catching up and possibly over taking the United States in Space technology, can we see his sources. By all indications from industrial literature the United States is still light years ahead of it’s nearest rival, whom ever that may be?

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

Time to realize that to recover economic dominance, we must begin exploiting off-LEO strategic areas:
1) Mining Earth-Trojan metallic bodies (start robotic using current UAV technology and upper stage vehicles, process ore in Libation points or Moon or LEO)
2) Basing on the Moon and Libation points (control of Earth gravity well, bases for further colonization and exploitation, especially water holding areas for bases and fuel)
3) Basing on Mars (base of op for Asteroid Belt exploitation).
Sounds far out but it is not beyond the next 40 years. and be assured China and India are already moving on this.
China has cut off export of key materials that can be grabbed from Earth trojans. UAV technology gives us a leg up in space robotics for this purpose? Commercial space gets us to LEO…

Not counting spin off money from technologies developed in the effort, and engineers trained and expericed in the related efforts (don’t we need more technologically oriented people?)..

Money in space is an economic investment.…we do it, or we accept status as a former world leading country…our choice.

This just doesn’t surprise me at all. This country has changed to one where we are more concerned with giving money to people who won’t work and forcing people with health insurance to drop their own insurance and let the government throw trillions into it. Research is looked on as a waste of money; the new thinking seems to be moving away from defending the country whether it’s from overseas threats or at our boarders. Now we have to help the clueless, not just the helpless.
I’m not sure we can get back to where we were when the program that took us to the moon was started back in the 60’s. Jack Kennedy wouldn’t recognize his party.

I think Ruppersberger is not entirely correct here.

Lets face it, the short lived six successful missions to put men on the Moon was the last time we were clearly ahead of the Russians. During the 50s and 60s and 70s, it was all Russia. They were the first in space, the first manned space travel, the first woman in space, the first space walk, the first satellite (Mir lasted 15 years and housed dozens and dozens of US and interantional astronauts on scientific tours), they were the first to put probes on Venus, the first to send back pictures from the Moon, the first to create a solar powered robot operated from Earth (Lunokod) and the first to send probes to Mercury and Mars. In 1986, after Challenger, the Russians launched 90 missions. We launched zero missions for a year after Challenger. You have to give it to them. There may not have been much farvegnugen in a Soyuz, but they sure did a lot and are continuing to do a lot. They had many more firsts but after a while it’s like Baseball statistics. BTW, the Russians who created Lunakod were asked to create a remote controlled robot that helped clean up Chernobyl.

It’s really only the last two decades that we have reclaimed the first place again. With the help of ESA, NASA has been a fabulously successful and exciting institution that has fleets of robots on the way to outer planets doing vital scientific research despite their much reduced budgets. We have our third generation of mapping satellites orbiting Mars. We found water on Mars. In fact the Opportunity and Spirit Rovers have been operating over five years past their estimated mission life. The Cassini Huygens probe is so successful that another 10 missions were added to this incredible European/NASA project that has taken precise and meticulous data from Saturn’s rings. There are dozens of other examples and I encourage you to subscribe to NASA’s many podcasts. You would be floored at how much they are doing and how well they do it. Yet they get less publicity than a boy who is not in a balloon.

Hell, Voyager is still traveling over a billion miles away and sending back signals.

Oddly, the Russians send most of the US (and other astronauts) to the ISS from a robot ship called the Soyuz TM-9 launched out of the Baikonur Cosmodrome. Also, apparently the French Magellan rocket is now the most powerful booster in the world. the Chinese are planning manned missions to Mars.

We have the minds and the will to stay ahead. What we are lacking are the funds and the vision. Too many people worry about America’s rather tiny percentage of folks who need Welfare and spin it into some national tragedy of spending. (Yes, the 15 % of Americans out of work now are just lazy…oh brother…Barry Goldwater wouldn’t recognize his Party). Gosh, all the countries who have robust growing space programs ( China, Russia, ESA, and India ) have huge social welfare programs, but they don’t politicize it or use it as an excuse. They just plough ahead.

The money NASA spends is well spent indeed.

That said, it will make much more sense to stop competing against other countries into space and start cooperating with our allies. We can make our money work harder and go much further when we get out of the moribund Cold War mindset that pits us against others in the field of science.

The silver lining in all the milsats that we put up into space to militarize it also brings us valuable scientific and technological advancements. Conversely, NASA’s advancements help the US military in space as well. There are NASA testbeds all over Edwards AFB in the Mojave.

I wish we were spending tenfold on NASA. Scientific expeditions will take us farther in the long run than military expeditions. Finally, my prediction is that China will be the first country to put men on Mars and it will be a tectonic shift in how we experience or assume “American Exceptionalism”. It will be a blow to know that perhaps the biggest scientific achievement in the world was performed by Communists. It may also be a kick in the pants to get us back into something that once united us all: Space Exploration; versus something divides us all: War.

Respectfully,

Daniel Russ
Civilianmilitaryintelligencegroup​.com

I completely agree

Dan — time to do some more research. Soyuz is NOT a robotic ship — you are thinking of Progress. Soyuz is manned and people do NOT fly on Progress. The Russians may have created a neat robot to investigate Chernobyl, but we never had a Chernobyl. Before Mir, there was Salyut and Skylab — two space stations. I would argue that Skylab was the first true space station though I think there was a Salyut mission before we got Skylab up there. Your ideas have some merit — I also think that we should cooperate more and compete less — but we could draw the wrong conclusions from your note.

If you read the Ares blog they said exactly the opposite.They said that the U.S. Air Force is about to enter the most intense period of fielding new space systems since the height of the Cold War almost 50 years ago.The AF gonna deliver six brand new space systems in the next 24 months. Nothing as ambitious as this has been attempted since the 1960s.

Its not a space race. We’re already there. Its space superiority. In the same way air superiority shapes the way one fights a battle so does space superioirty. Dominance in space has allowed the US and its allies the predominant use of guided weapons, it allows us to control information to, from, and on the battlefield. Space superioirity is important since so many of our advantages on the battlefield rely on our near exculsive control of it.

The possible loss of this control is why we’re seeing more technologies shifting the reliance away from satelites. The future is one where the US and allies do not have this exclusive control of space based abilties and will rely on many more localized systems and networks that have to be that much smarter and less reliant on the “big” multi-billion dollar satelites that we do today.

Space doesn’t belong to any one country, and the idea of another space-race is absurd and wastefull. We should be focusing on international space exploration programs.

Either way, untill he human species learns to man up and stop with all this stupid in-fighting over power, money and religion we are gonna be stuck here on earth, and its gonna suck.

Once we develop a working nuclear fusion reactor and countries no longer have to go to war over oil, water or food then we can actually start space exploration for real. However, chances are though we will have completely destroyed ourselves before we manage to colonize other planets.

Loosing the space race? Gee there isn’t a country that can go a manned Mars program alone, U.S. included. I ask, does any other nation have a deep space, ion drive space craft out there now? Our shuttles, while old still do the job. Did anyone get a shuttle to fly? The Russians tried to but failed. Maybe the thing that will help us is to get the Feds out of our state and local school systems; teach meat and potato courses, starting from Kinder to 12; and finally, hold parents for the behavior of their students. Our education system needs to pick up the pace if our science and tecnology is to keep pace.

All good comments. Unfortunately today we are wrongly focused on taking care of the parts of American society that WILL NOT take care of themselves. We have also decided that we are too good to produce anything domestically or that is is simply too expensvie to do so. All that is to say that if we continue on this course, the concept and benefits of a free market capitalist system will fade and we will not have the capital to push space systems to the next level. Were we to return to the free market system where in we produce, consume and export, we might just have the funds to do some of these things. And we will also have the employment situation where the very people we are trying to cover from craddle to grave will be able to helo themselve while contributing to society. I know, you will say well that is a bit simplisitc a statement of the current environment. Just like one of the other guys said, we got ourselve into this mess and we are the only ones who can get ourselves out.

This is the Air Force that had an embarrassing attempt to buy a new tanker! This is the Air Force that spent years trying to develop a new trainer and finally had to buy a NAVY!! Propellor driven!! foreign built aircraft. This is the Air Force that spent millions to develop a light trainer for the Air Force Academy cadets and ended up crashing them, deciding that they had just goofed up from the start, and handing over training to civilians since they could not do it right. This is the Air Force that bought a new fighter (F-22) that was so expensive that the service could not afford them.
This is not an Air Force that should be trying any ambitious major upgrades of space systems. They should take a slow and measured approach, evolutionary not revolutionary, etc.

Charles Phillips
LtCol, USAF Retired

Just saying… the US doesn’t have a shuttle anymore either. IIRC, it made its last flight and is being mothballed with nothing to replace it for 5 years or so, and that won’t be a new shuttle.

elgatoso, what Military satellites are the USAF putting up? Not being scarcastic, but I heard the USAF are using satellites that can intercept electronic waves. Meaning, we can intercept any conversation on the entire planet. Those satellites? Or, retiring the older satellites with updated features on the new ones? If some of you know, what is possibly those updates? Granted, most of the specs are classified, but i’m sure some may have leaked.

Thanks guys.

Has anyone told the WH Teleprompter what to say.

1945…GDP USA was ~50% of entire World
2009…GDP USA less then 22% of entire World
no wonder…

Well said, I wish more people in our country, especially those in power, felt this way. Too many people see a dollar spent on defense or space R&D as a dollar that could have been spent helping some poor schmuck on the street. It sickens me to death, and I do believe that without a significant change in vision the Chinese will be the first to put a man on mars..this is a day I hope I do not see, but I feel that there just aren’t enough people that give a rats ass any more about what this country can do except fill their wallets with handouts.

Jason, the proof of the US actually landing on the moon has been questioned and not yet verified. The Japanese have a satellite mapping the moon right now which has the visual resolution down to the size of a teacup, so if the lunar landings are after all, this will be the telling of it as the satellite passes over and maps those particular locations.
There is a lot of compelling evidence that it was only a hoax. Only time will tell.

This isn’t really a relevant statistic. You can’t expect the U.S. to maintain that level of growth and stay that far ahead of the rest of the world, especially with developing nations like China and India — the fact that we only have 22% of the world’s GDP today vs 50% in 1945 is really meaningless.

Especially considering how much economic output we had as a result of WWII

Don’t you just love how the lib/dems are slowly tearing down everything our country used to be or is still good at? Those people need to be dealt with !

I agree w/ Warscientist opening statement. We should share the financial burden as broadly as possible.
But I take exception to JRM’s “We have also decided that we are too good to produce anything domestically or that is is simply too expensvie to do so.” Just for clarification, is the WE mentioned Corporations? It wasn’t the American People ‘WE’ that chose to move the manufacturing sector of the economy to foreign lands.

Jason, As a former employee of NASA and retired military guy I can tell you the problem with US space exploration.…..It’s run by the Government!

This whole “Hope and Change” thing isn’t working out so good, is it?

Seems to me that in the last eight years of Repub rule, Bush tore most everything left standing that Reagan didn’t tear down and Clinton built up.

It might be best for the rest of us still standing to deal with yourself first.

Good for you, imagine what the left would be saying if GB had read everything like BHO does… hard to make a speak error like us humans do.

If the Russians and Chinese were and are doing great things in space, as communist nations, it is in spite of their politics (and because they are not welfare states, in spite of their communist labels). Cooperation with these countries as they exist today is not in the best interest of the US.
Is Russia our ally? When they cooperate across the globe in aiding rogue nations and terrorists with weapons and technology? I think not. If Iran is close to becoming a nuclear power, it is directly because of Russia and China. That goes for NoKo, too.
I guess we should all hold hands with our “allies” and work together for world peace. Then when the first country to put a man on Mars turns out to be Communist, it just might also be the US. But at least big old bad war will be conquered.

WITH ALL THE JUNK THAT IS FLYING AROUND UP THERE IS THERE ANY ROOM LEFT !!!!!

Chris, did you not read the article? It says that Obama approved a satellite program in April. How reading before speaking and quit showing your ignorance. Go back to listening to the uneducated people on FOX News!

This sounds like the Sputnik scare all over again, and the typical AF/NASA tactic to bilk more money for tax payer financed indusrial R&D for proprietary products.
Osama is beating us with AKs and RPGs-his strategy is to bleed us white; hagn on long enough, and we’ll defeat ourselves, just like the old USSR.
Ruppersberger is playing right into.
Our winning strategy throughout the Cold War was to outspend the USSR, but we’ve been outsepnding Osama for 8 years.
Try something new?
As for WW3, nobody wants it: don’t worry about it. It’d destroy us all, een if no one pushed the big, red button.
A winning strategy in Afgahnistan requires generals who are smarter than the average goatherder, not “Toy’r’Us”.

LETS JUST SAY THAT CHINA IS GOING TO BEET US WITH THERE SPACE JUNK SOON.… BESIDES WE DON’T MAKE ANYTHING IN THIS COUNTRY ANYMORE AND EVERYTHING IS MADE OVERSEAS AND OR MEXICO. THAT’S WHY WE ARE GOING TO LOOSE THE SPACE ADVANTAGE… FORE GOD SAKES MAN! WE CAN’T EVEN MAKE AN ALL AMERICAN CAR THAT IS BUILT 100% IN THIS COUNTRY!!! BUT MAYBE WE CAN PUT A LITTLE BIT STIMULAS INTO THE AQUATION…

If the U.S, continued our dominance in the space program BHO would to go on another world tour and apoligize for the U.S. to the world! You are right Mark — the whole hope and change thing is not working. Predictions are now that the job market will never return to what it was. This may also include the space agency. The way we are going we will be the laughing stock of socialist Eurpoe! And remember — President Bush can be the scape goat for so long before this mess belongs to the Democrats.

I think Hank is on the money with that comment. Most of our problems are self inflicted. Just when we start devoloping things that would work and they start comming together those idiots in washington decide to pull the funding. Because of our stupid policies we cant allow civilians to go up in our shuttles which the Russians been doing for some time now they cut through that red tape. If we sent 5–10 civilians up at 10,000,000 usd a pop imagine what that could help pay for? So far the Russians are kicking our butts in the commercial space tourisim industry. Whe have private companies working hard with a fraction of resourses to get us up in space goverment needds to start working with them. Biglow corp launched 2 inflatable stations (though not manned yet) in space and so far seams to be working like they were desinged. We need serious reforms and cut alot of redtape and soon or we will loose our edge in space. Most projects were canceled due to cost and technology which ok back then they were not avaialbe but technology has progressed since then and we should take another look at those nixed projects. We should not even be debating on establishing a moon base. That should have been established already same goes for the Mars. We should be shooting for Jupiter or Saturn by now if we kept moving forward instead of acting like wusses when one little thing goes wrong everyone gets scared. Those people thought sucks they died they knew the risks and to listen to nay sayers and stop things when one thing goes wrong has hurt us more than anything those people need to be shot. Lets get moving lets get to the Moon, Mars and beyond.

Bottom line — Oboy the WH tool could not care less about space or NASA. Nor could the billionaire cronies calling the shots in Oboy’s shadow. The article is moot. If Oboy and the billionaire minions had their way — it would be shut down in a day. They know they cannot shut it down hard and fast for the backlash that would occur. Oboy has already spewed his comments that we are to be all about “education” (whatever he deems that to be), and he said it in the presence of former astronauts who were offended when Oboy did not give more attention to funding of space advancements.
The fool does not realize the technologies originated in space design and engineering, are many of the wellspring ideas that end up advancing entire societies.
He is not interested in that. Quite the opposite in fact. Supression and dependence — a return to the dark days for the masses of what was America.
Commercial and private ventures are going to be the only ticket for space advancement. But don’t think for a second that big brutha won’t keep a thumb on this too.

We could easily have space dominance, problem is we keep cutting funds. I will say this again and again until I am blue in the face, WE WOULD HAVE PLENTY OF MONEY IF WE WEREN’T WASTING ALL OF THIS MONEY ON ALL THIS STUPID SOCIALISM! Sorry you lazy bums, no more welfare, no more billions of dollars for AIDS in Africa, no it is not the job of the federal govt to provide free prescription drugs, no more Ethanol, yes this is just the tip of the iceburg, you give me the power and I’ll take care of the budget!

Absolutely RIght!
We want teh money but we don’t want to get our hands dirty.
“The business of Aerica is Business” didn’t mean sitting around looking at Excel Pie Chrats and making the really idiotically, short term decision.
“Waht are my options” is anybody’s game-including Hillary Clinton.
Making eth right descisions is harder.
Making options, is leadership!

No, instead we should give billions to people who promise us the moon and then can’t deliver scat. That’s the ongoing problem with the defense and space contractors in this country, as you well know. If they ever were held to the contract provisions they signed onto without using their political muscle to get fixes implemented in the middle of the night in defense legislation hell would freeze over. Those firms would also go out of business through sheer incompetence except for the excellence of their lobbyists and PR staffs. Is that the problem you’re trying to fix?

Introdution as far as Satelites go wheter (Leo, Meo, Geo) to many companies paid NASA huge amounts of money to launch thier satelite into position, then when it came to operate the satelite from the ground the company was bankrupted, so I guess that space it self was telling the United States of becoming bankrupted, now we have these satelites orbiting, and there not operating, same thing with the telecomunications industry in India, United States sold, huge mistakes, now as far as the Space Race I think that Russia is manning for a trip to Mars in the year 2020, to bad not many ordinary Americans could have not been recruited, making it more of an international program, but picking up space as a hobby, I think it’s probably impossible to travel without the speed of light, using light itself as a vechile could widden the possibility of exploring space unmanned.

I have expected this The U.S.A. always drifts to the left and the nay sayers sooner or later,Every damn thing we want to or have developed has been done with a struggle with the fools that take our money and run back home to their district with it. I remember Dont go to the Moon forget the development of a good ta WE THE PEOPLE what a laughAs guests of honor in the 90’s in washingtOn about 300 EX-P.O.W.‘s were treated lousy the so called dignitaries didnot even give us a glance from the first 50 rows of the theatre where the meeningless speach’s were given We sat in the bleachers 80 and 90 year old Vets. We get to the luncheon they provided for us and thee was hardly any food left and not a drop of beer or any oyher adult refreshments You see the the one being honored road in school busses and the elete road in limos. Incidentlly we paid our own way to WashingtOn All they did was sit us in the top rows and buss us to a phantom lunch . Go ahead destroy OUR COUNTRY MAKE US WEEK SO THAT OUR ENEMIES AND WE HAVE PLENTY< CAN WITH THE HELP OF THE U.N. NEUTER US AS A NATION.

You hit the nail on the head.

“I wish we were spending tenfold on NASA.” You can say that again — 100 X would suit me fine.

“the Chinese will be the first to put a man on mars.”

And thereby hold the high ground militarily… if they can get to Mars and we cannot, then, should they desire, they can send rocks back to Earth, not only as raw material sources, but as weapons to fall on designated targets…

“…satellites that can intercept electronic waves. Meaning, we can intercept any conversation on the entire planet” was going on in the 1970s, so what’s new here?

That would be Axelrod, Emanuel, Jarrett — and of course, input from G. Soros and the Tides Foundation.

Right!

If the US had not lost its political will in the 60s, then not only would we have been to all the planets in this system (via {Gen One} 10,000 ton intersystem Orion ships), but at least one 40,000,000 ton interstellar Orion ship would be well on its way to some other star system.

The Russians allegedly manually destoryed their shuttle version.

Meanwhile, we have a political system in which one party wants to give free stuff to people by spending unimaginable amounts of money, and another which wants to give free stuff to people by spending responsibilly.

This is crazy making.

What we need is a party with the political will to have a GOAL and a plan we can understand giving all the things Barry mentions (including re-industialization) as part of the road to that goal. A true manned space exploration program is (IMHO) the answer. Like the Orion motto (Mars by 1965, Venus by 1970), there needs to also be a very simple motto.

What is man without a vision for the future? What is man when he succumbs to the mere mundane? In the long history of our planet, will man be just another dinosaur that lived for a time and then passed away? Admittedly, our government has a habit of botching brave new projects. We begin projects (space, super collider), decide they cost too much, abandon them, begin again, and in the end spend a lot more money than we would have if we would have completed what we started from the beginning.

The money spent is not wasted. It creates jobs. It leads to new scientific discoveries. Spinoffs enhance the national income. New industries are developed. Support industries profit. And the money itself is spent back into the national economy.

Our President talks about us becoming a second-rate nation. We have already lost our former greatness. We are the world’s greatest debtor nation. Now we have to rely on other nations for transportation to and from our own space station. We have no pride.

now some of the accounts are not nuclear with US DOD. the seven “O” ring rocket make’s $2.0 Billion dollars per lonch 40 lonch’ss that $80.0 billion dollar please at 48% intreasest. pluss sub componits
like the $100.0 million DE10,DE10,DE =R computer chip. I lke a roth ira ‚roth 401k ‚three 287 collige plans.
but one can not fund heath care US DOD dose not pay its bill’s.

now the micro mimi nuclear power supply. low radio acive carben wafe sandwich in a perix glass wit two solar cells ‚with magniuem wire anti tamper =7 volt’s it run the rockit flight clock. Self powering computer chip’s. power nuclear wafer 21 years , silacon in ssolar cell 14 years. that’s jupiter plus 4 years. the tecnology work just fine. the hang upis us dod dose not py it bills. US DOE / INEl tell me to bill US DOD at a $100,000.00 a computer chip used. at 48% intreseit. WHen US DOD pulled Fraud at chernobyl. the price of goods an services went up.

It not lossing th space race. it’s re tooling. The rockit just fine. I had to add faile salfs so tha i not cheeted so i can get payed. rocket range 18,000 mile an it hit a dime. it’s not the rocket . it getting payed.
with the space shuttel retirring. it’s just slotting new pay load’s for the buster rocket.
sarry about the misset spelling it’s that none solexiea in my vission. like having a concuhion form military service. It were th 8“inch artillery shell mesit me up. my biological famly vary unforgiving.

when us dod pulled us fedreal felley fraud. an did not pay for the putting out of chernobyl.
us dod created a high casulty rate. do to there desaption.
buy us dod not paying up honnastly there was no money for a outer space program.
technology cash on delivery.

no wonder there lossing the space race do to US DOD defrauds it written contract when chernobyl was put out
uraioum 5,000 degrees soft carben. ocadizer layer , then a hard carben. with a palamer layer anti oxagen. it the power pellit. that the chernobyl number were taken off of.

worp drive: the real one not hollieywood. lithuem cristel’s 9,000* degree’s fariin hight
soft carben layer, oxcadizer layer, hard carben layer.=2,250,000 ton’s of thrust mars as a day flight
none nuclear.
it’s not a matter of a lack of technology. it’s a matter of funding.

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