Dems Warn Against Afghan Combat Surge

Dems Warn Against Afghan Combat Surge

As President Obama stood on the verge of deciding how many troops to send to Afghanistan and what broad strategy to pursue, three top Democrats declared themselves opposed to sending large numbers of combat troops.

While broadly endorsing Gen. Stanley McChrystal’s strategic shift in Afghanistan to a population-centric counterinsurgency, Sen. Carl Levin, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said that dispatching more combat units risks feeding a Taliban propaganda machine that portrays the U.S. and NATO as occupiers, fomenting continued resistance from the country’s Pashtun population.

Instead, Levin, proposed following what he called the “British model,” outlined recently by British PM Gordon Brown, which includes intensified training, mentoring and partnering with Afghan security forces, and a modest commitment of additional British troops (around 9,500) along with more helicopters, drones and mine resistant vehicles.


He also called for roughly doubling the number of Afghan security forces to 400,000 by 2012, a year earlier than currently planned. A substantial increase in U.S. and NATO trainers would be required to pull that off, along with logistics support and more vehicles. Still, any additional infusion of American troops must be contingent on an Afghan government commitment to increase the security forces, reign in corruption, reform local level politics and reach out to reconcilable elements of the insurgency to bring them into Afghan politics.

The British model would achieve one of McChrystal’s stated aims, which is to demonstrate “a commitment to success” to the Afghan people who are worried the U.S. will abandon them once again, Levin said, speaking today at a RAND conference on Afghanistan in Washington.

But several influential House Democrats warned the administration against trying to increase US forces in Afghanistan, citing our experience in Vietnam and the risks to the economy.  Rep. Jack  Murtha (D-Pa.), chairman of the House Appropriations defense subcommittee, predicted a floor fight should Obama request many more troops.

“The public is worn out by war,” Murtha said. “The troops, no matter what the military says, are exhausted.”

The powerful chairman of the House Appropriations Committee, Rep. David Obey of Wisconsin, said he thinks “we need to more narrowly focus our efforts and have a much more achievable and targeted policy in that region.” Obey warned that US would otherwise run the risk of “repeating the mistakes we made in Vietnam and the Russians made in Afghanistan.”

To close observers of the ongoing debate over whether to follow a counterinsurgency strategy or a counter-terrorism approach in Afghanistan, Levin’s proposal appears to somewhat split the difference. Even though he supports McChrystal’s counterinsurgency strategy, Levin is clearly against what has been widely reported to be a request by the Afghan commander for up to 40,000 more troops. Levin wants the Afghans to provide security for the Afghan people, not U.S. troops.

He also proposed a “Sons of Afghanistan,” program, an imitation of the “Sons of Iraq” program where insurgent fighters in Iraq who fought against the U.S., switched sides for what he called a “very modest sum.” He said such a program could “peel away” considerable numbers of “low level” fighters paid by the Taliban to plant land mines and roadside bombs and shoot at American troops. “Offering these fighters jobs and amnesty for past acts could sharply reduce the size of the insurgency, just as the Sons of Iraq effort did in Iraq.” Sen. John Kerry made a similar proposal earlier this week.

The 2010 defense bill, signed yesterday by Obama, contains a provision allowing commanders in Afghanistan to use Commanders Emergency Response Program funds to pay Afghan insurgents to stop fighting. British Gen. Graham Lamb is developing a plan to reintegrate reconcilable Taliban fighters, he said.

Levin took a few swipes at the media for covering the debate over Afghan policy as a dramatic conflict between field commander and president. That drama is fueled by “some” in Washington who toss out a “cheap and easy lines” such as “dithering” or claiming President Obama is afraid to make tough decisions, “in an effort to push him to immediately, indeed automatically, endorse recommendations from a general who is highly capable, but whose focus is understandably more narrow than that of Secretary Gates or President Obama.” Obama must make decisions based on what is best for U.S. national security. “We should condemn the efforts to hem in the president with inflammatory rhetoric to a rapid timetable for decisions.”

He quoted from McChrystal’s own strategic assessment that said: “Focusing on force or resource requirements misses the point entirely.” The key point, according to Levin, is shifting the strategy in Afghanistan to focus on providing security to the population.

Colin Clark contributed to this article.

Join the Conversation

McCrystal is Obama’s hand picked General. Why second guess him now? And Afghanistan is not Vietnam — if we can deny the bad guys a safe base in Pakistan we have a chance of eliminating them. And Rep Murtha must have some angle for scoring some more earmarks — if he does not believe the Generals in charge of the military why are they still there???

Charles Phillips
LtCol, USAF Ret

Shinseki was shot down by Rumsfeld for wanting more troops in Iraq, look what happened. We surged, it’s working. The civilian thought he knew more about military matters than the military man himself, only to be proven wrong. McChrystal says more troops is needed, yet again civilian politicians apparently know better than our top military in-theater commander.

I think what McCrystal is really saying. Is that we have to attack the problem from several different angles at once to be successful. Clearly, any half hearted measures like sending only 9,500 troops (Sen. Levin proposal) instead of the recommend 40,000 is just setting us up to fail. Also, as long as I am speaking about Senator Levin Plan. I am surprised that a Chairman of the Senates Defense Committee. Doesn’t under stand how long it takes to train new troops. While, you can get your average soldier trained reasonably quickly. Senior Enlisted and Officers take years. From Sen Levin comments it sound like he thinks we could train an additional couple hundred thousand in a year with no problem??? Even if that is true. What good would they be without effective LEADERSHIP???

why the hell do we even care what some guy that sits in a nice cushony leather seat 5000 miles away, when there over there with the guns and enemy then i will care what they think, they represent the people and not the troops, the generals and officers over there know what needs to be dont not the freakin congressmen/women over here please, this is a joke.…

Instead, Levin, proposed following what he called the “British model,” outlined recently by British PM Gordon Brown, which includes intensified training, mentoring and partnering with Afghan security forces, and a modest commitment of additional British troops (around 9,500) along with more helicopters, drones and mine resistant vehicles.
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Has the British approach been working that well as of late? I don’t think so.

He also called for roughly doubling the number of Afghan security forces to 400,000 by 2012, a year earlier than currently planned.
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I love how all these pie in the sky estimates get thrown around when we know from Iraq that quality soldiers and police don’t grow on trees.

But several influential House Democrats warned the administration against trying to increase US forces in Afghanistan, citing our experience in Vietnam and the risks to the economy. Rep. Jack Murtha (D-Pa.), chairman of the House Appropriations defense subcommittee, predicted a floor fight should Obama request many more troops.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What is it with Democrats and Vietnam phobia? Interesting how some have no problem running the country into the ground with a social agenda, but then cry bloody murder when it’s done for national security. That’s why you need balanced government, because both parties are blind to their own excesses.

Senator Levin , the liberal Democrats, and the U.S military are all going to get a rude awakening, because the President will approve a troop increase with less troops than Gen. McChrystal asked for, in some vain misguided attempt at compromise. No prolonged war has ever been successful w/o the President constantly making the case for involvement to the American people. This President obviously doesn’t see himself as/or want to be a war President, so instead of showing some leadership and making the case for a larger buildup, he’s trying to have it both ways by sending just enough to get by. Woe to the war fighter.

Opposition to the build up in Afghanistan does not come from the Left alone.

Conservative Columnist George F. Will–

“So, instead, forces should be substantially reduced to serve a comprehensively revised policy: America should do only what can be done from offshore, using intelligence, drones, cruise missiles, airstrikes and small, potent Special Forces units, concentrating on the porous 1,500-mile border with Pakistan, a nation that actually matters.
Genius, said de Gaulle, recalling Bismarck’s decision to halt German forces short of Paris in 1870, sometimes consists of knowing when to stop. Genius is not required to recognize that in Afghanistan, when means now, before more American valor, such as Allen’s, is squandered.”

Howard Phillips, founder and chairman of Vienna, Va.-based The Conservative Caucus –

“I don’t see any way in which the security of the United States is involved, or strengthened, by the presence of U.S. troops in Afghanistan. Obviously, I applaud the courage and sacrifice of the people we’ve sent over, and the military leaders are doing the best they can in a difficult situation. But it’s a policy question, and as a matter of policy we shouldn’t be there. It’s ironic that Obama is continuing all of the bad policies of President George W. Bush, to which he expressed opposition.”

Conservative Reagan-era U.S. ambassador to Switzerland Faith Whittlesey –

“First, we conservatives must redefine our foreign policy in accordance with the prudence and caution of our Founding Fathers. As John Adams said, ‘We do not go abroad in search for monsters to destroy.’ We should reread the history of empire that lost blood and treasure in foreign wars. Most Americans do not wish to be seen by the world as empire builders.”

Conservative Andrew C. McCarthy, an author and NationalReview​.com contributor, regarding nation building in Afghanistan —

“the unlikeliest of social engineering experiments.” McCarthy has been highly critical of McChrystal’s plans to win over the Afghan population and transform Afghanistan into “something resembling a modern social democracy, complete with vibrant educational programs.” He labels such plans “a delusion” and says: “If we’re not up for the real thing, we should leave Afghanistan now. Those who worry that we would give al-Qaida a huge propaganda victory should consider that we’re already giving them one by hamstringing our warriors and exhibiting a failure of will.”

Matthew Hoe, Marine Captain, recently resigned from the Foreign Service —

“I’m not some peacenik, pot-smoking hippie who wants everyone to be in love,” Hoh said. “There are plenty of dudes who need to be killed,” he said of al-Qaeda and the Taliban.

But many Afghans, he wrote in his resignation letter, are fighting the United States largely because its troops are there — a growing military presence in villages and valleys where outsiders, including other Afghans, are not welcome and where the corrupt, U.S.-backed national government is rejected. While the Taliban is a malign presence, and Pakistan-based al-Qaeda needs to be confronted, he said, the United States is asking its troops to die in Afghanistan for what is essentially a far-off civil war.

This all said, I will never condemn someone for thinking. It is acting without thought that gets people killed most often. Also, remember that the Surge was not just an increase in troop levels and a change in deployment. It involved a bribe machine that paid US tax dollars to Mullahs and Imams and local tribal warlords not to attack us. I guess that’s a success, given the failures that preceded it. If Rumsfeld had listened to Shinseki and put the right number of invasion troops into Iraq rather than doing it on the cheap, Iraq might not have exploded in a civil war.

Let us learn from history by admitting what happened, not rewriting it.

@Drake1, I agree with you on one thing: there is sometimes no “middle way” when it comes to warfare. Obama has to decide what will work, or at least when to cut bait and be decisive about whatever he chooses.

Respectfully,

Daniel Russ
Civilianmilitaryintelligencegroup​.com

How many 10’s of thousands of foreign troops are training the Taliban and how did they become so effective?

Sending more troops may or may not be the right policy but “training the Afghan army” is just cheap political cover
for not sending more troops. It should be discussed openly instead.

If after 8 years the Afghan army isn’t trained and motivated enough, no additional amount of training will help.

The only effective fighting forces created by the Afghans are the Taliban and the local warlord factions.

The hard truth is if we didn’t already have 60,000 troops in Afghanistan, we wouldn’t send them now.
Withdrawing them now and throwing in the towel would embolden every US enemy around the world,
especially Iran and North Korea.

Dems warn against having an effective foreign policy or a military.…

Obama seeking options on forces:
MEETING WITH JOINT CHIEFS President looks to send fewer additional troops
http://​www​.washingtonpost​.com/​w​p​-​d​y​n​/​c​o​n​t​e​n​t​/​a​rti…

Looks like the President is now looking for excuses to low ball a troop levels.

All these writers were against the surge in Iraq
starting with your friend gerorge Will.
He and them were wrong about Iraq
and they’re wrong now.

If the owns want to fight then go fight that way we may have the 60000 to fight just dont sit there and whine about fighting or are you to scared

Murtha is a disgrace to the US Marine Corps. The Democrats ‘cut and run’ policies amount to nothing more than indecision and cowardess.

Yes, but he will wait a few more weeks to make the decsion…how long does it take? He’s been screwing around with it for a couple of months already!

Imagine how much more ground can be covered by 40,000 Extra troops. They should have been there from Day 1, maybe the job would be finished now. They have to get enough people in place to prevent the Hit and run tactics being deployed along the Pakistani / Afghan Border. If thy can secure that border and cut the taliban supply lines well, they are half way there.
If a military Commander who is on the ground in Afghan says he needs more troops to get the Job done and finished, give him what he’s asking for.… he is after all the Expert and that’s what the Country pays him for.
Indecision by CIVILIANS in high places gets MILITARY guys killed, or more than is needed, get a grip and listen to the General.

Ex British Forces SNCO (Iraq & Afghan)

If Roosevelt had listened to many of the Dems in Congress in 1941 the US would have made a treaty with Hitler and Europe would be under a National Socialist Party lead government today or something worse like a left wing congress. At least Bush was smart enough to believe his generals once the block heads who stood in the way were removed. Obama is not the leader Bush was and he never will be. I feel sorry for the military leaders in SWA who have to fight a war without a president who supports them. Everyone knows the Democrats in Congress are not pro-America anymore.

These very same Democrats argued about Viet Nam, as they are today, and we lost that war because of those very same polticians. Guess their colors haven’t changed one bity. Mopw the Socialists are in Washington, instead of Moscow.……

What makes our government think we can go over there and change the mentality of thousands of years?? The progress we made in Iraq seems to be failing now we have pulled out of a lot of areas. What real purpose do we have to spend millions of dollars and thousands of life’s of our soldiers and civilians that are over there doing what they do… I have experienced it personally I came back last December unfortunately not in the same state I went over in, I came home with broken legs, shoulder and many other bones. There is a large number of Iraqi people who are very thankful were there but truly did not understand why!

I would be for a reduction myself if it weren’t for the fact that Pakistan is our real worry, The Pashtuns were 60 miles outside the capitol; and this is a nuclear country!! Now the Pakistan FINALLY realizes they need to kick some royal butt; we give up on our end! What?

We need to shore up that porous border so the Pakis can finish the job without a lot of them sneaking across the border to torment the legally voted in government of Pakistan. They will really see us for the weak turds we are if we don’t at least support them in their latest push.

The world can’t afford a Taliban controlled nuclear country. Shirking from this duty is pure madness that will guaranteed come back to bite us on our duffs in no time!

True, these Taliban and AQ terrorists are not an enemy that will just stop if we leave Afghanistan. Pakistan has been so busy staring at India for the last decades that they are incapable of dealing with these nutjobs at their backdoor. They should deploy all of these supposedly “elite” forces starting over at India to deal with the Taliban. Use all of the tanks they have for something.

I agree that Murtha is a disgrace to the Corps. But the biggest disgrace is the Commander-in-Chief who is unable to make a decision, for months, after his hand picked general on ground makes a recommendation for action.

But once war is forced upon us, there is no other alternative than to apply every available means to bring it to a swift end. War’s very object is victory, not prolonged indecision.
In war ther is no substitute for victory.

General MacArthur’s farewell speech to congress 1951

This is an insult to the entire military community. For Murtha to say “no matter what the troops say…” they are exhausted. As a former marine who volunteered to join, I was pumped and ready to protect our country at all cost and to suggest that the troops would lie about how they feel about their mission is a demeaning. That goes the same for Obama to suggest that General McChrystal — ‘though highly capable is focused more narrowly than Gates and Obama’ I’m sorry, but I doubt that Obama or Gates can even spell ‘Focus’. I would certainly want to listen to the generals than I would some politian. It’s amazing we’re not hearing from the same critics who crucified President Bush when he was confronted with the same scenario.

Yes! this can be another Vietnam ‚if we let the people in Washington DC run the war the way they think it should be run.

BTW…I am tired of listening to libs saying we lied to get into Iraq. I guess they were tuned into Al Jazzeers television to see what terroist had to say when Pres Bush spoke to the American people, to lay out his case for going into Iraq.. I was listening to the President here in the US, I recalled hearing about 12 or 13 different reason for going into Iraq. That also aired on all the leftwing media outlets here in the US (the same idiots who coined the phase “Smoking Gun”). It’s amazing how you never heard the libs commenting about anything except the WMD’s. I guess that means we were 91.6% correct for going into Iraq. I bet Ted Turner never thought of that one.

This all sounds like a lot of hand waving and think-tank rationals for pulling out before the job is done. Reich Marshall Dumsfeldt blew off Shinseki’s analysis and we had to “surge” in Iraq just to get equivical results. Pawning the job off on the ANA, if they get their act together, is saying that we’re going to be gone before Afgahn corruption and lack of leadership becomes too obvious. The Viet Nam and Soviet Invasion rationals are old Dumsfeldt-it’s shocking that that the “too many troops is bad” notion still has currency, however expediant. The only British Model that ever worked was the Empire, which brought profitable economic development along with occupation. Unfortunately, Afgahnistan doesn’t have anything to econmically exploit. As for paying them to be our friends, they’ll just buy more RPG rounds. The problems of Afgahnistan are enormous. The one thing consistant about the Afgahn stage is world history is that most western leaders make fools of themselves while trying to play the hero.

The Soviet Invasion and Viet Nam are worth more consideration in terms of a commitment to our own troops than “a commitment to success” to the Afghan people who are worried the U.S. will abandon them once again. If Obama really wants to pull out, then he needs to explain that to graveyards across the nation, and knock it off with the Clintonesque rationalizations.

Has anyone given us a reason why in hell we are there anyway? The Iraq war saved Haliburton from bankrupcy & they are still operating on a no bid contract. When is the public going to start marching in the streets, or must we start the draft again in order to wake them up. There is no one alive yet that will finish paying for this fiasco. Peter S. USN (RET) ENLISTED

The answer to your question came today in Fort Hood. The partying goes on, the campaigning goes on, but none of the promises are kept.

Given the lack of leadership at the top and because no one probably could ever change Afghanistan, I’m ready after this afternoon to say, “let’s call the whole thing off.” I question Robert Gates’ abusive leaning on these troops and causing the largest mental health crisis ever found in a war situation. Today someone snapped but there will be others because they are all losing faith.

Think about how riled up everyone was about Lt. Calley (and I include myself). How in God’s name could the military be this mismanaged? It isn’t them though: it’s everything from bad equipment to pounding the same troops over and over and over again. The only way to save them now is to bring them home where alas there is surging unemployment. But at least they will be at home and instead of covering every illegal alien for everything they want, maybe spend some of that money on putting these Humpty Dumpty soldiers back together again. Our government caused their great fall.

When will some of you people wake up and realize that NO ONE has EVER won a war in Afghanistan.Alexander the great , who is yet highly recognized as the greatest military leader,strategist, and tactician in the history of warfare could NOT win in Afghanistan.The impossible terrain and non winable tribes in addition to the many varying factors and factions are against winning a war in that extremely difficult country.Levin is right on the occupation bit.Many Iraqis yet see America as an occupying force.You have heard the quotation “To catch a thief, THINK like a thief” .Meaning? To UNDERSTAND the nature of Arabs,where ever they are,or may be.THINK like THEY do NOT like WE do.99% of the post on this board is speaks of FOOLISH America PRIDE.Russia’s failure in Afghanistan and America’s failure in NAM is enough to take very close notice to what we are in for.The ONLY purpose we were given for going there was to KILL or CAPTURE Bin Laden.That has NOT been done nor will it be.Some of you people will NEVER learn that most Arabs HATE America just as BAD as they do Israel.

.

Guess after all is said and done. My Dad and Grandad, bothe being veterans with more then their share of combat experience would tell the liberal dopers. Either shit or get off the pot. Baby boomers are blow hards and wouldn’t last a couple of days if we got run over. Warriors in any world country have no respect for cowards and takers. The world simplified has takers and givers. With a bunch sitting on the fench deciding what to be. But, bottom line nobody likes a taker coward. Let the men and women do the job over there or get them home. Better yet let the military leaders do their job. The politicians can do what they do best blow smoke up each others ars and, politicians<>lawyers

Sir,

Your proxy war in Afghanistan just not justify Pres.Obama action​.No one will doubt his men specially in battle fields.unlike you whom i presume is end product of Vietnam or Iraq war. Sir for the record Afghan war is lost before it begin you know that because in war there is only losers and no winner.If your beloved republican ex president Bush never invade Afghanistan you already remove Taliban .USA does not had a problem right now. Training of local afghan arm-forces is the long term solution

Great. We support the troops. We just don’t support giving them the resources to actually fight the war we’ve sent them to fight. There is no such thing as “war lite.” We either fight the war properly or get out and let the Taliban come back into power, give al-Qa’ida sanctuary, and watch Pakistan implode and hand a nuke to al-Qa’ida. I’m sure some of our political “leaders” will think that’s the right approach since their event horizon is the next election cycle. And we get upset with Karzai’s corrupt administration?

Why are we telling anyone, let alone the enemy what we are going to do? Just shut up the press and let the troops fight the war on their own terms to win. Why spend all the money on the best equipment in the world to fight a war with guns and men on the ground. One road side bomb = one square mile of total distruction. Let the natives start cleanning up their own towns of the al-Qaida mob. Fight the war to win or get out.

Burnok,
From your comments and your mastery of the English language I assume you are not a citizen of the United States. Therefore it is probably safe to assume you are either a member of the Taliban, sympathetic to their cause or a follower of radical Islam.
If this is the case I can see why you would object to increasing the number of troops in Afghanistan. You want the Afghan people to loose and therefore provide a safe haven for the Taliban which would almost guarantee oppression and wholesale murder of any dissenters. Strange, this appears to be just what was taking place before the United States and other NATO countries became involved.
We have a chance to help the Afghan people secure their country from radical Islam and provide their people with a much better quality of life than they could ever imagine under Taliban rule.
You, my friend, have no right to bash Pres. Bush or one of our fine warriors like LtCol Phillips. And from your comments I must conclude you have no knowledge of history or current affairs. Therefore I cannot give credence to any statement you could possibly make.
God Bless America

From the article, I can see that we aren’t going to win because the Taliban outsmarted us. All this think-tank, mil-speak sounds like “maybe if we build a camp fire, sing songs, we’ll find a way out”.
And that’s the problem-we’re looking for a wayout, not a way to win. It can be won. But our leaders have lost their craft and the standard answer to any problem over there always seems to require another acquisition program and more money. Ossama is beating us with pick up trucks, rifles and grenade launchers. Not an aircraft or AFV to his name. Ambush is a snaky game. But our generals have lost their craft adn we’d rather pay contractors hideous money than call a draft.

In addition to the generals’ plan , Train 500,000 Afhan(tajik) to stabilize Afghanistan.

Shame on our Democrats. Shame on our President. Obama has no Military-anything. We are not going to debate our way to victory. Obama and his hippie lot are so clueless and pathetic, they are going to make us fail. Obama needs to “grow a pair” trust the Generals on the ground, and tell the Taliban that we are going to wash over them like a burning sea of fire until we secure victory and pay-back for 9/11 and every person who joins the Taliban, knows that joining is a death sentence.

How short are our memories. For those that offer up Alexander, the Brits and the Russians as warnings and precursors to defeat. Realize with the will to win the USMC and Army dug a seasoned fanatical army out of caves all across the Pacific Ocean 65 years ago. Again realize the “will to win” brings Victory. The only will in DC now is to emulate the last centuries of the Roman Empire..

77705256
“Bull Piss” We do fight to win — yet all too often diplomats and politicians set the ROE and then tell everyone they know what is going on. The UN and NATO know the CBP/ROE sets befor our troops in the fight do! I surrender NOT!

Have we not learned anything from Iraq? Send them in!!

Semper Fidelis

You were right on in your reply​.My husband was a 26 year retired navy veteran and was at sea more than he was at shore,and he felt the same as you.First of all this is a all volunteer military,so our guys that are out there trying to keep the US safe knew exactly what to expect when they joined the military.All we can do is pray that they are safe wherever they may be,here in the states or abroad,but our people in Washington,need to provide them with the nessecary extra troops they need to help them do the job that was intended. I am not a republican,but I am a conservative,and Pres.Bush new more about what it took to run this country than what’s in DC now. GOD BLESS AMERICA AND GOD BLESS ALL OUR TROOPS!!!

Seems to me that congress should stay out of the business of telling the Army how to run the “War” the last time they tried that we LOST after nearly destroying the Vietcon during Tet. When was the last time anyone looked at the stratagy we were using in Vietnam before 1969,WE WERE WINNING. We need to show them we care what happens to them and their country. If it takes more troops, of all types not just combat, to accomplish this then so be it and the Army should know the number. They’ve been doing this for more than 200 years. Murtha was in Vietnam he should know better. Don’t get me wrong I want us out of Afgahanistan and Iraq ASAP but not if it causes genoside there or risking more attackes like 9/11 here. We as a nation must understand that this is not a fight that the Taliban or al-qa’ida will give up as long as there is a chance they have support to continue. If Congress and the President are “committed to success” then they need to put-up or shut-up and get this over with NOW.

this govt put our military there and it is the same old crap.….new people get in charge,and they do not want to listen to the Generals in charge…so there is only one thing to do.…bring them home and send the congress there to fight this war.….

I’ve rarely heard it put so succinctly — agreed! Unfortunately.

Jack Murtha is the one who is exhausted, not our troops. Please get these Vietnam vets out of Congress, so we can stop refighting that war over and over and over and over again. There is every reason to expect that we can prevail in Afghanistan if we just keep to it.

Levin’s proposal makes no sense. With the desertion rates going on in the ANA, he cannot expect them to step up and make their forces well if we don’t show that we are committed. I’m all for high tech and I’m all for our allies pulling their weight, but it is not a panacea. We need to fight this thing the smart way, but in the end, we are a nation of 280,000,000 and Afghanistan is a nation of 28,000,000. Size matters. Make it count. Fight to the end and make the enemy give up in despair. This is what William Tecumseh Sherman did and would do.

Either give the General the help he has requested or get our people the hell out of there. With the number of soldiers we have there now, we can’t both train Afgans and fight the Taliban efficiently. Get them out of Iraq and send them to Afgan or bring everyone home.

‘He quoted from McChrystal’s own strategic assessment that said: “Focusing on force or resource requirements misses the point entirely.” The key point, according to Levin, is shifting the strategy in Afghanistan to focus on providing security to the population.’

Seems he missed the part where the additional troops are needed to provide the security.

Well said.

you appear to be clueless

Lets take a look at another aspect of the Soviet experience. The Mi-24 Hind was a key asset throughout the conflict. It was fast, well armed, and very well armored. According to some, the Mujaheddin was close to defeat before Stingers and modern anti-aircraft weapons were supplied. Yet nobody is shipping the Taliban modern SAM systems these days. The best they have are some old SA-7s and copies of that system which can be easily fooled by IR jammers on our attack helos.

So why not make more use of our helicopters? Lets design something new, not designed for hunting tanks like the Apache, but with pure close air support in mind. It would be well armored, fast, and capable of laying down a ton of autocannon, MG, and rocket fire.

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