I agree with you Poynafter 100%, ROV’s/UAr.V’s are the future of armored combat vehicles. The current M1A1 is about the practical limits of weight and fire power of a manned vehicle.

There are some problems such as situational awareness and weapon transverse times but these can be solved. The current combat environments that use command detonation (IED’s/EFP’s/Mines etc.) devices and the solo suicide one man ambush from 10–25 meters with an PRG, who pops up, fires, and then is gunned down tactics works.

The idea of trading a multi million dollar vehicle and up to four lives for an RPG-5 or 7 or roadside device that cost only a few dollars and a single insurgent is an exchange not even the US can afford for long.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

What you described is one of the tactics of an ambush. Let the point and the second element through and put the command element in the kill box. In theory this will disrupt the C2 and enable the ambushing unit to work from the center out. This might be the best way to hit a small convoy with high value targets, like fuel, ammo or a lot of personal.

Another tactic that is widely use in vehicle/convoy ambushes if to take out the lead vehicle and block the escape route, let the other vehicles accordion into each other and have a secondary ambush near the rear and work both ends toward the center. This tactic works very well on large convoys of unlike vehicles that creates poor road discipline that are lightly escorted.

The herring bone is incorporated when a column of armored vehicles is hit. By putting the vehicles in alternating positions you expose less of any one vehicle to fire but at the same time increasing you ability to lay down defensive fire in a 360 degree fire zone on where the enemy has concentrated his heavy weapons.

If a commander can get his vehicles in a herring bone at the start of an ambush, it could be a very short day for the bad guys. If the commander can’t he will see his elements isolated and taken out one at a time because they won’t have the support of the other vehicles.

Armor Basics 100

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

Retired Jar Head.….

The Job of the Calvary is to keep the opposing army away from Friendly Forces long enough to get into position. Lee was able to do this by blocking the passes on his way to Cashtown PA in 1863. But sometime during this operation Stuart took off and raided into Rockville etc and became burdened with supply. It fell to the Union Calvary under Devin and Gamble at Gettysburg to hold off Heth’s Division long enough to get I Corps into Battle Line.

The Offensive side has the difficult job of recon, detecting enemy formations, deciding route of advance and the deep battle to strike known or possible areas of trouble between itself and objective. The Defender has the difficult job of deciding what the Enemy wants to do and positioning themselves to defend effectively and possibly developing the fight until a moment comes to throw the Reserves in to smash the enemy.

But once someone starts to shoot, it’s all over but the fighting.

Another line of thinking regarding battle is Time, Options and Control. If you have time to send units to do things to the enemy before enemy can get up and fight your main body proper you are ahead. If you have more options than the enemy does by calling in air or artillery against a defender or even bypassing the strong point you create opportunity to victory.

Control relies on your Soldiers and Marines who trust that you know what the hell you are doing and that you are planning 72–96 hours into thier future so they can get the rations, food, water, bullets and everything they will need along with information on where the enemy is at and where they need to go and what to do when they get there.

Insurgents have one little problem. It’s like herding cats. One insurgent on the cellphone with daddy, momma, cousin, billy bob, kin and all kinds of indirectly related family, friends and like minded other insurgents does not have much to work with. However, this Insurgent probably understands his lands, his roads, weather and habits/routine of his immediate area. The presence of a enemy force like a US Unit will definitely be noticed.

Sometimes you need to send in a few people who have a pair and very precise objective. They might sink a ice pick into the enemy commander while he is asleep or otherwise working and get out away from the scene of the crime without getting caught.

The ones that did get away, well… we will have to wait 50+ years for declassified reports wont we?

=)

The herring bone formation was used by the 11th. Cav. in Vietnam very effectively against both VC and NVA attacks. It gives the armored unit a 360 degree field of fire. As for aerial strafing attacks, I don’t see how the herring bone would be effective. The vehicles would be way to close together and present a larger target as well as having all of the vehicles fire power bunched up. If aerial attacks are a potential problem I would think that spreading out the force and positioning weapons with as wide an area of fire as possible.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

I think if you look in “The 1863 U.S. (Army) Infantry Tactics: Infantry of the Line Light Infantry and Riflemen”, you will find this. It is a layered attack, skirmishers in front to shake up the hornets nest, from one man to about 10 soldiers, then a picket line. a company usually, to force the enemy to expose himself, then withdraw behind the maneuver force that is to engage the enemies front and flank elements.

Or if you are the skirmish guy(s) you are the bait. The Pickets are the hook and the rest real them in and get the glory.

Nothing new here.

A note on the picture, that is not how tanks should be when pulled to the side of the road. A tanks main gun should never be pointing at the tank in front of it, dauh. the back tank could have a round in the chamber, and armored vehicles should be in a herringbone position with their main tubes pointed in alternate directions. Very sloppy formation.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

http://www.amazon.com/Thunder-Run-Armored-Capture...

that shows that both Abrams and Bradleys in the early part of entering Baghdad performed these manuevers. One can argue that insurgents in Iraq did not have RPG’s or ATGM’s as lethal as what the Hezbollah had and that is true, however I think it discounts the shock effect that these armored battalions presented to the enemy.

Of course every situation is different and one would have to consider the make up of the terrain. The Israelis also drove their Merkava in areas that were very narrow and prevented them from exploiting speed too.

I would agree that fire and manuever is the key. Combined arms is also ancillary to victory in complex terrain. Dismounted infantry can help pry the enemy from their hiding spots as can cheap distributed and MASSIVE use of throwaway sensors.