Losing Kilcullen

Losing Kilcullen

Forget the Vietnam analogies. Influential Australian counterinsurgency adviser, David Kilcullen, says the Obama administration risks a Suez style disaster if it fails to deploy the troop numbers requested by Afghan commander Gen. Stanley McChrystal.

The deep divisions within the administration that have burst into the open in recent weeks along with the long delay in answering McChrystal’s plea for more troops has created deep concerns among NATO allies and has presented an exploitable opportunity for the Taliban, Kilcullen tells Britain’s Guardian newspaper.

Kilcullen, who is an adviser to the State Department, says it would be irresponsible for the administration to opt for any kind of middle ground option that sends less than the 40,000 troops requested by McChrystal. “Time is running out for us to make a decision. We can either put in enough troops to control the environment or we can credibly communicate our intention to leave. Either could work. Splitting the difference is not the way to go,” he is quoted as saying.

“As an analogy, you have a building on fire, and it’s got a bunch of firemen inside. There are not enough firemen to put it out. You have to send in more or you have to leave. It is not appropriate to stand outside pontificating about not taking lightly the responsibility of sending firemen into harm’s way. Either put in enough firemen to put the fire out or get out of the house. That is my analogy of where we are. Either of those approaches could potentially work. If you have 40,000 troops it would be do-able. Anything less than 25,000 is throwing good money after bad.”

When the administration risks losing the support of people such as Kilcullen, who have long supported the U.S. led war in Afghanistan, it is not an overstatement to say that it puts the future of the entire war effort in question. His reference to the 1956 Suez crisis (which resonates more with Europeans), is an important point; it was widely seen as the last gasp of a crumbling British empire and heralded the end of Britain as a global power.

Speaking at a U.S. Institute of Peace event in August, Kilcullen laid out four reasons for continuing the war in Afghanistan: first, because the West has a moral obligation to see it through after making commitments to the Afghan people; second, because NATO would be severely weakened by failure; third, because the effect of a collapse in Afghanistan on neighbor Pakistan would be severe; and fourth, because Afghanistan could once again become a haven for terrorists.

The U.S. and NATO faced a minimum of one to two years of heavy fighting then a two to three year process of handing over responsibility for security to the Afghan forces, then further years in a support, or “over-watch” role. “We’ll fight for two years and successfully transition or we’ll fight for two years and fail and go home,” he said at USIP.

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How stupid is this guy???
NATO is already impotent. It is a holdover from the cold war and Europeans have already moved beyond it.

The terrorist are already in Pakistan, if we leave, they move back to Afghanistan. Its just more of the same…except they won’t have us to shoot at.

The Afghan people have to choose a side, if they don’t (and they haven’t) then our moral obligation has been paid in full.

And if Afghanistan becomes a terrorist refuge, I guess that means that Somalia, Pakistan, Indonesia and the other countries that are infected have a place to send their homegrown threats…

Who in there right mind believes that this nation has the will to fight for another (by his count) 5 years minimum to get this nation to a modicum of western style recognizable stability? I wonder if our forces could stand that much strain?

The truth of the matter is this. The General’s are facing their worse case scenario. They fought in Vietnam, swore that it would never happen again on there watch and are now faced with a Vietnam type scenario. We should be seeing a steady stream of resignations but we don’t. Our leaders, who would pound a private for any integrity violation, have themselves committed an integrity violation on an epic scale.

The US military is faced with another rebuilding task. Is facing a loss of respect (once the kit gloves are taken off and people start a realistic and mature look at the facts) and will be held responsible for probably the worst run campaign in US history.

Fire every one in the Pentagon.…that’s the first step to getting out of this mess.

You hav my vote Solomon I could have not said it better Our Troops are tired not the General’s with their thumbs up theirs

Well, at least we know that solomon is not as wise as Solomon!! NATO built the coalition that is fighting in Afghanistan, and is the foundation for the coalition we had in Iraq. That country (Iraq) is hardly an shining example of stability and democracy but the coalition held together there twice and did a pretty good job. Decades of working together showed. Now, politically we have problems but the French (often derided in the US but a capable fighting force for centuries) have rejoined NATO.
Certainly the terrorists are in Pakistan but that is why the Pakistanis are hitting them hard on that side of the border. Where are the bad guys gonna run to — the safety of Afghanistan?
And the bad guys in Afghanistan are not gonna attack us too much if we can cut off their supplies — sophisticated detonators for IEDs for instance.
Anyway, we can safely file “solomon” under the category of Disgruntled Observer. If you want to seriously join the discussion that is great, but suggesting that we fire all the support folks in the Pentagon does not contribute to the conversation. Get some military experience and then come back.

Part 2

If anything, ISAF’S performance in Afghanistan has provided more ammunition to those who argue that NATO should be disbanded. If the U.S. can’t get our Europeans allies to see that a stable Afgnaistan (Central Asia) is in their future interests, than I don’t really think their is any point in keeping this organization( apart from an excuse to draw more Soviet satellites away from Russian influence). We already have peace keepers with ridiculous caveats governing their actions concerning military action– it’s called UN peacekeepers!

Part 3

Afghanistan and Pakistan are both havens for terrorists, and will likely continue to be so long into the future. The question is, does the U.S. see it as a worthwhile future investment to stick with it and see if Afghanistan can field something approaching a Pakistan style government, that would attempt to fight some Taliban factions in the country. Pakistan would love for our operation in Afghanistan to fail, because they don’t want a strong Afghanistan (that would inevitably be a close ally of India), and it would relieve the pressure of having us operating on the opposite side of their border.

The U.S. needs to think carefully about how it pursues international terrorist organizations like Al-Qaida in the future. Future long term nation building on the scale of Afghanistan is not in our national interests. I’m so not sure giving political/military aide to an ineffectual and corrupt Somali government to combat Al Shabab is the right way to go either.

One thing is for sure, I’m quickly losing respect for a President who seems to not have the political courage to say what we all know he wants to say…which is pull out of Afganistan.

Kilcullen also said:
“Our way out is to go to Karzai and say ‘We are done here’. We will be leaving in two to five years. If you do not want to be left hanging from a lamppost, like Najibullah [the former Afghan president hanged in Kabul in 1996 when the Taliban took control], this is what you need to do. I think that would work,” Kilcullen said.

i think you need to show that he did have both options on the table, and that this is not just a support for McChrystal’s option.

I bet back during the 1980’s some Soviet General was making the same arguments. Substitute Warsaw pact for NATO…etc.…

Afghanistan is the graveyard of empires. If we follow this guys advice we’ll be next. Tailhook claimed 14 Admirals there rank and caused 300 Naval Aviators to lose there careers.

How come the losing planning and implementation of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have caused not one General to be fired?

As much as I hate to agree with Dick Cheney, Obama is dithering.

During the election, he said two things: 1– Afghanistan was the good fight. 2– He could compensate for his lack of experience with his “good judgement.” He sold me. I voted for him (full disclosure: I made that choice 100% because I couldn’t stomach the idea of Sarah Palin ever being in charge of anything remotely important).

Now we see that 1– He was just saying that so he wouldn’t look weak for wanting to quit in Iraq. 2– His lack of experience is a significant weakness.

President Obama is rejecting every option placed in front of him as though he can wish away the problem when the problems in Afghanistan are getting worse by the day. Taking a week or two is one thing, but he’s had MONTHS now to make a decision. He has taken in the advice from all of his advisors and is failing our troops by not being decisive.

Most of the problems in implementation of these wars were a result of the President and the Secretary of Defense, therefore, I think you are throwing too wide a net here in this instance.

Part 1

Speaking at a U.S. Institute of Peace event in August, Kilcullen laid out four reasons for continuing the war in Afghanistan: first, because the West has a moral obligation to see it through after making commitments to the Afghan people; second, because NATO would be severely weakened by failure; third, because the effect of a collapse in Afghanistan on neighbor Pakistan would be severe; and fourth, because Afghanistan could once again become a haven for terrorists.
++++++++++++

I think the U.S. has already met its Suez with the invasion of Iraq. U.S. influence militarily, politically, and financially is already on the wane. Pulling out of Afghanistan or staying in some vain effort to maintain what we have already effectively lost is laughable.

I do agree with Kilcullen that have a moral obligation to the Afghanis. For eight years we relegated Afghanistan to an economy of force operation, while turning a blind eye to a corrupt and inefficient Karzai government.

If you’re a soldier in the 82nd, 1st Cav or 10th Mountain…a Marine in 2/7, 3/5 or 1st Marine Regiment (Rein) then I don’t think taking a bit longer is dithering.

I have seen this government rush on too many things lately. Its rather refreshing to see a slower approach.

Decisiveness is a quality that saves lives once you’re on the battlefield, in deciding strategy its better to measure twice and cut once…in other words be sure of a decision before you send a 19 year old to possibly die if you’re wrong.

A certain general that is now heading up the VA told the Congress exactly what it would take in order to succeed in these missions. He was fired. He has since been proven correct. If our military leadership knew better but did not tell the civilian leadership the truth then they are culpable…and should be fired. If Admirals and Aviators can be sacked for chasing skirts then surely General’s and Admiral’s in charge of a failed and misguided war policy should also face the same fate.

Solomon, the other side of the coin is whether or not taking your time to decide has put 19 year olds already down range in further danger by not reinforcing them.

There are two other things that Obama has to keep in mind in Afghanistan.

1) He’s already sent in almost 40,000 reinforcements. The MEF and the support troops that were sent shortly after he took office. (Reinforcements that were requested some eight months before the Bush administration ended.) By all accounts those troops were pretty much wasted — sent to the wrong places and then spread too thin to be effective. You can be sure that he does not want to repeat that.

2) Our military support is the only real lever we have to make Karzai do what we want. If we fight the war for him regardless of his actions then the status quo will continue. If there is no realistic chance that things will change then sending the troops would be a mistake.

“By all accounts those troops were pretty much wasted — sent to the wrong places and then spread too thin to be effective”

Isn’t that why McKiernan was relieved? I do believe so. Mighta even read it here first.

It’s probably your poor choice of the Tail Hook as an analogy…but I think I get where you are coming from. Gen. Shinseki would agree that he and the military leadership should have spoken up more forcefully when plans for the Iraq invasion were being thrown about. Like John Nagl has said, the military has not yet figured out what to do when the civilian leadership does not accept their best advice. What should they do?..public or private retirement? The military profession has not yet figured out how to do this. Check this podcast link out for Nagl’s own words which I have poorly paraphrased.

http://​www​.npr​.org/​t​e​m​p​l​a​t​e​s​/​p​l​a​y​e​r​/​m​e​d​i​a​P​l​a​y​e​r.h...

hey cowboy, i have the experience. don’t fall for the old line that everyone that is wearing or has worn the uniform is supporting the way that this war has been waged. as a matter of fact you’d have to be a loon or an idiot to believe that the moves that Rummy made were for the good.

the tailhook analogy wasn’t something i came up with but i fully endorse it. the idea that those Admirals and Aviators could lose careers over skirt chasing is minor compared to mismanaging a war.

McKiernan was relieved because he did so little to enforce unit of effort.

McKiernan isn’t the center of gravity for the failure in Afghanistan. If I could point to one General and say you picked the wrong strategy it would be Gen. McNeill. A British General was in charge of the NATO mission and he was doing the McChrystal thing. Local peace treaties…a sort of Sons of Iraq type operation before it was cool. McNeill—knowing that the forces were not available to support a surge type mission—opted to do so. The other NATO allies got nervous. Casualties started going up, the Afghanistan people turned to the Taliban and we have the mess we have today. Gates got on the scene late, fired a general that was following a policy that was instituted before he arrived, was not properly sourced by the Administration at the time and there ya go.…

Bob Woodward’s book are a great primer on this subject. But here’s a link to the turning point for the bad in Afghanistan…
http://​www​.eurasianet​.org/​d​e​p​a​r​t​m​e​n​t​s​/​i​n​s​i​g​h​t​/​art...
just a little unimportant town that turned out to be a precursor of things to come.

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