IW Needs Armor, Firepower

IW Needs Armor, Firepower

A key part of the seemingly endless debate about Afghanistan and Pakistan — not to mention Iraq — has been just what forces are needed to succeed.

Most analysts would agree that mass — numbers of troops — is one key to success. Most thinktank analysts agree that a counterinsurgency (COIN) approach is best. Deploy close to the people and clear, hold, build. The part that doesn’t get a lot of attention in the public debate is just what it takes to do to the “clear” part. So much of the rhetoric about the Iraqi surge focuses on the simple issue of mass that not much attention has been paid to how you do the first part of COIN.

Our man Greg Grant wrote a piece asking if so-called “diffused warfare” was the right model for Afghanistan and future wars against irregular enemies. That piece sparked an extended exchange between us and retired Army Col. Doug MacGregor and an Israeli military expert. The Israeli made clear that armor was key to the success of the recent Gaza fighting: “It was characterized by what some called heavy maneuver, a lot of ISAR, engineering, fire and heavy armour. Even the tracked upgraded APC M-113 were prohibited for use for their lack of sufficient armour” And he said the Israelis had added a cannon to the NAMER (a new APC based on the Merkave chassis) in light of the recent fighting. One senior Israeli official even referred to this as a combined arms operation. [Our photo is of IDF tanks massed before the Gaza strikes.]

In his first email to us, MacGregor scoffed at the focus by many analysts on the importance of special forces, ISR and precision strike in the Iraqi fighting: “If some of us did not know better, we would think UCAVs, precision air strikes and SPECOPS teams won the day in Sadr City. We know tanks and armored fighting vehicles with accurate, devastating fire power were the dominant elements because interviews with the Soldiers and their captured opponents said so. The IDF will tell you the same thing. It’s why the IDF has no interest in Stryker or motorized infantry constabularies.”

In the following commentary written for us, MacGregor argues fervently for combined armor formations in Afghanistan, saying that Strykers and M-ATVs are not enough to deliver the firepower and survivability needed for the clearing portion of COIN. As he puts it: “Strykers had no utility in the close combat seen in Fallujah, Najaf and Sadr City because they lacked sufficient survivability, mobility and firepower.”

MacGregor’s commentary follows:

While I believe it is neither wise nor necessary for the US to intentionally involve its forces in COIN operations on foreign soil, particularly inside the Islamic World where our very presence is alienating and radicalizing, if we are going to commit ground forces the conventional force must contain substantial mobile armored firepower to deter/prevent or counter any effort by the guerillas/irregulars to mass and overwhelm the light troops and SOF. The armored and air mobile forces work to isolate the contested territory and cut off the guerillas from safe havens and sources of supply.  Thus, the two forces – Mobile armored and airmobile elements plus SF/SOF are inextricably intertwined, but all of these missions cannot readily be carried out by the same force.  Specialization is vital.

That said, given that in both Iraq and Afghanistan off-road mobility is the key to survival I am at a loss to understand why we are spending money on more Strykers and M-RAPS The only difference between M-RAP and saran wrap is the size of the explosives in the IED needed to destroy it.

Stryker’s speed on road causes its admirers to think that speedy movement on roads will allow the infantry riding inside the armored truck to potentially outrun IED blasts or enemy contact. Of course, rapid movement at 40 miles an hour down road in Iraq did not prevent Strykers from being blown up by IEDs or demolished by complex RPG ambushes in places like Bouqaba and Sadr City.

Strykers and other wheeled troop carriers have utility in relatively benign environments like East Timor, Bosnia, Kosovo—and parts of Iraq where the roads were good and IEDs were in short supply; especially after the cash for peace program. Strykers had no utility in the close combat seen in Fallujah, Najaf and Sadr City because they lacked sufficient survivability, mobility and firepower. But, we must not confuse their utility in those environments with what is brewing up in Afghanistan or places like Lebanon. The Canadians brought Leopards to Afghanistan for a reason and reversed a decision they had made to transform into the Shinseki “All Wheeled Force.” Meanwhile, the Israelis restarted the Merkava line and are building NAMERS — heavily armored, tracked infantry carriers — because they believe they need them.

Strykers were not bought for COIN, but as an interim solution to getting to Kosovo fast. It predates the Army’s fascination with COIN. And it was supposed to be replaced by FCS which would be more survivable (at least that was the story at the time). Then the occupation in Iraq continued and the Stryker suddenly becomes purpose designed for COIN. This is nonsense.

Unfortunately, Stryker brigade advocates view the Stryker as a single system solution and thereby discount the necessary synergy and complementary effects that all arms armored formations have delivered for decades. This line of thinking not only assumes away the need for integrated mobility, protection, and firepower – the critical elements of success in land warfare – the thinking results in Stryker formations that are critically dependent on the prompt arrival of air strikes for both effectiveness and survivability in any encounter with an enemy more robust than a Muslim insurgent armed with an AK-47 and an IED.

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It sounds like the US needs a variety of vehicles, and smart people that know where they can each operate. It does seem like a fast vehicle like a Stryker could envelope an enemy — useful in a campaign such as 1967 in the Sinai. Useful for encircling Taliban in Afghanistan maybe? But when you get close and slug it out — you need the armor provided by an Abrams. And you need the main gun. But can’t a casualty-indifferent enemy send out people that will stand up behind an Abrams and shoot it in the engine?
So maybe the answer is you send a fast troop carrier to surround a target and then bring up the tanks to go in there and dig out the bad guys. It seems that both are needed.
Charles Phillips
LtCol, USAF Retired (so a bit out of my element)

This article helps explain a couple of things to me…
1. MacGregor basically called Stryker Units motorized infantry constabularies. He’s saying that all Strykers are good for is the internal security mission.
2. I understand the lull in proceeding with the next FCS …the debate inside the Army must be fierce. Wheels vs. Tracks all over again.
3. It helps explain why the EFV is still alive and why a US Army procurement officer stated that they would consider it…when pressed he said all options are on the table.
4. He completely debunked the Rumsfeld belief (and it seems to a certain degree Gate’s too) that ISR, and Special Forces are the key to future battlefields. I wonder what that means for the recently rapidly expanded SpecOps Command.

If his side of the argument wins then that means that all the vehicles bought for this war will have very utility in future conflicts. Stunning. It also goes against the party line of the lessons learned from the war in Lebanon. Again…WOW!

Forget the heavy vehicles. Put all infantry onto a Segway. /sarcasm

why do you need segways? razor scooters are the wave of the future!

Good comments. however (part 1):

1) Believe many were surprised at how well Stryker did in Iraq, Given good roads it can sneak up on the enemy and bring lots of networked infantry. General Petraeus seems to be implying that we should expect BCTs to be tailored with mixes of heavy, Stryker, and light force. Strykers can protect supplies and patrol roads for route, convoy, and area security, Heavy forces can dominate off road routes and terrain. Light forces excel in urban and complex terrain. BCT areas of operations are likely to comprise all three types of terrain and noncontiguous threats.

2) Most of what I’ve read indicates that mobility and protection are the top two priorities for BCT modernization. That implies tracked vehicles and heavier armor than Stryker or wheeled vehicles can handle. Plus many Strykers have been blown up in Afghanistan. But believe COL MacGregor is incorrect to believe that we could afford to fly in and sustain lots of tanks and Bradleys in Afghanistan. Plus it sends the wrong counterinsurgency mission and looks more like occupation.

Part 2:

3) IMHO, believe any talk of EFV “still on the table” for the Army is lip service. Maybe if you ditched the water transformer bit, cut it in half with 11 troops, increased electronics and sensors, used a fuel-efficient engine, and added all kinds of armor and a V-hull…sounds like a whole new vehicle. Still cannot comprehend how a vehicle with more exposed troops and less armor, technology, and IED protection than the FCS manned ground vehicle is still being considered. A joint concept should be considered but it would not be based on the EFV, I believe.

4) Agree that some floated joint concepts concerning small SF and light units wandering about the battlefield as a substitute for vehicles and armor, and ideas about SF/UAS for counter-terror instead of counterinsurgency will not fly. But counter-terror is cheaper and cheap appears to be the Obama advisor’s delaying angle…similarly to Rumsfeld in Iraq. Ironic isn’t it.

Don’t knock segways and scooters too hard. Operation Albion. Oct 1917. A single reinforced German division attacks 3 Baltic Islands held by 2 Russian divisions in an amphibious landing. A big chunk of the German troops encircled positions and blocked the main russian exfil/infil route by racing from the beach across the island to a bridge on bicycles.

So far MacGregor’s views haven’t been adopted by anyone in the last 3 senior leadership changes. Either they are all to dumb to understand a brilliant argument OR the argument had some holes in it. The Army needs a variety of options and capabilities. They should and can work together, wheeled and tracks, light and wheeled, a combination of the three. One thing that the SBCT has that the others don’t is a 3rd maneuver battalion. All BCT’s need to have that robust element and the associated increase in infantry Soldiers it provides.

“But believe COL MacGregor is incorrect to believe that we could afford to fly in and sustain lots of tanks and Bradleys in Afghanistan. Plus it sends the wrong counterinsurgency mission and looks more like occupation.”

Cole, the Strykers don’t fly either for they have to be refitted with all sorts of additional armor.

This is actually something the russians did to good effect in Afghanistan back in the 80s. They would dismount their stryker brigade equivalent (sorry cant remember the name of the IFV in question) and push forward with their infantry whilst all the vehicles did one of two things:

1) Set up on a hill somewhere and provide fire support with their autocannons
2) Drive circles around the enemy firing inwards whilst the infantry herdes the bad guys to them

“The Bear went over the mountain” If you google it, you should be able to read it for free somewhere. Also has a few sections on using MBTs in Afghanistan, including in the green zones. Check it out

war scientist,If I am not wrong they used the BMP-1 and BMP-2,Boyevaya Mashina Pekhoty (infantry fighting vehicle)tracked version and the BTR-60PB and the BTR-70 .BTR stands for Bronetransportyor literally “armoured transporter”. It is a eight-wheeled armoured personnel carrier.

On Point 4: our experience in both Iraq and Afghanistan is that Special Forces and light, mobile forces are great for getting you into a huge dogfight. Once you are there, you are the smallest dog in the fight and are gonna get the snot kicked out of you.

Rumsfeld and his band got us into the fight and we are just now seeing the results of the Surge (that John McCain was a big supporter of) that is gonna get us out with some residual honor.

Still, I see our lessons as being that we need a variety of vehicles — some heavy and well armored, some light and fast, and some in the middle. If we only buy one type — we have a 33 percent chance of having the right one when we need it.

I think we need to re-define our main goal in Afghanistan to prevent lost on troops and budget. At first I taught our main goal is Osama bin Ladin and his militant. But when the Taliban failed to surrender Osama during the Bush Administration, Mr Bush decided to go against the Taliban too. The problem on this plan is do we really know how manny they are, where they are and who they are ? I think the plan and strategy in Afghanisstan are needed to be revisited and re-examined.

MacGregor skipped right past the the part where the vehicles he wants so badly are the same vehicles Hezbola ripped to bits in Lebanon. The Israelis counted on armor to replace proper combined arms tactics and paid the price in blood. He also slid past the bit where a soldier in an Abrams tanks that hits an IED is almost twice as likey to become a casuality as a soldier in an MRAP. Seems enough explosive will bust MRAP, saran wrap and a tank.

There is no single vehicle type that is going to meet all of the needs in urban combat. There are going to be many times when the best vehicle for the job is a tank. There are going to be many other times when a Stryker type vehicle is not just adequate for the job, but actually better for the job. The key is having the assets you may need on hand and using the ones that are appropriate to the task.

2 points:

1) A former armored officer saying more tanks are the answer — does that not ring any bells here? No disrespect meant at all, just saying…

2) +100 to everyone saying “you need all sorts of tools in your belt”

Amazing. The 9th Infantry Division did an experiment with Motorized Infantry and it died because of its lack of lethality and protection on the modern battlefield. Fast forward to the 1990’s and we’re back to motorized infantry formations.

The saddest part of all this is the C-130 capability. It just doesn’t make any sense unless the entire Army is about to become Airborne. Additionally the units that could make the best use (as the concept is laid out) don’t use the Stryker at all! The 82nd and Rangers would seem to be natural fits for the vehicle but they don’t use it because they emphasize Infantry skills above all.

I just don’t understand how a concept which was abandoned —has made such a big comeback and is on the verge of affecting the Army in the same way that the F-22 affected the Air Force…it will become the focus of the entire service at the detriment of the entire service. The replacement for the FCS can’t come quick enough. Lets hope that its more like the Israeli Namera or the German Puma rather than a reworked Stryker.

Party Poopers

I could be wrong but make sense the entire Army to become Airborne.

C-130 capability provides for in theater deployment over obstacles (mountains, large rivers, etc) or to suprise an enemy that thinks there is only one AoA. Similar to the AirCav concept but with armored combat capability. It is not there for strategic deployment, that is for the C-17 and C-5 (just like tanks). Motorized formations is a combat enabler for the infantry.

1. Intra-theater deployment against an opposition force has never been done with armored formations. Even relatively light ones like the Stryker. Even with more capable aircraft like the C-17 it would be difficult. I realize its the sparkle in planners eyes but the logistics of it would be too difficult.

2. Motorized formations are NOT a combat enabler for infantry. Mechanized formations provide the combined arms task force that is missing from these motorized units. There is a reason why the Israeli’s chose to procure the Namera instead of the Stryker. Same with the German Army and the excellent Puma IFV.

This entire exercise of obtaining the Stryker for Army Units was in response to the time right after the 1st Gulf War where everyone thought that major combat would be fleeting and short affairs. General Shinseki wanted to make sure that the Army was part of the fight and RMA advocates were spouting the party line of being expeditionary. Many forward thinking critics warned that the Army was giving up too much in the way of staying power but the administration at the time was enamored with the idea of a high tech — light force.

MacGregor is right. Its a shame that the lessons learned from the fighting in Iraq are already starting to fade.

Oh and as far as the entire Army becoming Airborne, that would be a major money pit. You’d have to pay everyone jump pay, keep everyone jump certified and have a willing Air Force to help out.

Mike, I’m not talking about C-130s. All the Strykers in Afghanistan were flown in by Russian contractor aircraft and C-17s from Diego Garcia. To do that with Abrams and Bradely would require many more lift aircraft. Then it would cost much more in fuel once there, endangering logistician lives.

The Namer would not work with the Abrams rear-engine and a tank-sized IFVs would simply double the gas-guzzling of the battlefield’s worst offender. Israel can easily supply its heavy forces and never sea– or air-deploys it. Seem to recall Israel running over buildings in Gaza to avoid IEDs because crews remain very vulnerable and much more money is lost when a tank or Namer gets hit than when a M-ATV gets hit (and crew survives).

Believe a lot of the Stryker and M-ATV armor shortcomings could be overcome in Afghanistan through creation of three-sided HESCO battle-positions within COPs and OPs. Position them and their platoons/squads every few kilometers along key roads and in troublesome populated areas to reduce patrolling distance and maintain a continuous surveillance screen the rest of the time. Just my 2 cents.

And the Air Force would be unwilling due to non-availability of aircraft for sustaining such a doctrine.

What about a Helo Army?

Small Wars Journal blog has an excellent powerpoint AAR from the USMC 1/5 in Helmand. It is very instructive to actually see what passes as a road in many parts of Afghanistan. This is the terrain where we need a heavy armored force (with all those associated fuel tankers)? Iraq/Gaza are urban, Afghanistan is about as rural as it gets. What works in one area may not work as well in another.

MILNEWS is right, It’s about time we pay attention to the source of these “bright ideas.” It seems like the debate is being lead by purists from various diciplines. With this type of “intellectual” analysis we might as well wait for the Logistics officer’s paper that states the key to counter insurgency is better demand forecasting of toilet paper.….

And once again we’re aruging whether or not to use a particular bit of equipment rather than discussing WHAT THE HELL ARE WE STILL DOING IN AFGOATISTAN 8 YEARS LATER?!

A couple of things bother me about our recent activities in Afgan. First is the new policy of screw the troops, don’t fire near non-combatants. We are losing a lot of good men because they can’t get Artellary or Airpower because, their might be a civilian nearby. How can you tell a combatant from a civilian there? Wait uintil they shoot you, then ask. Second, we are losing a lot of soldiers to IEDs because they need better protection and heavier armor. But the biggest issue is nothing is being done by leaders to suipport our Commander and his policies. Obama and his think tank can’t deciede what to order for lunch without a long presentation and follow-uip meetiungs. Lead, follow or get the Hell out of the way.

why not a heavy BCT in Helmand? Bet the talibs would run like hell..the Canadians use Leo II’s, why not Abrams or Bradleys?

Well, the IRAQ detour pretty much screwed this mission. We had them beat..and let them come back..bring on the armor. When you got good air and arty, you could smash them. Maybe we should cross into Baluchistan…i mean, thats where theyre comin from right? Time 4 a DECISION…

when light infantry advances on foot or in wheeled vehicles they habittually conduct movements to defense.Why? When American light infantry is armed with automatic weapons and the enemy has automatic weapons, any resistance encountered is stiff because conditions of symmetry prevail. When these conditions emerge, the light infantry turns to the most powerful weapon in its inventory– the radio,because it allows them to call for help from the air force,the navy, and the artillery. When heavy Armor arrives on the scene the battle ends quickly. Col. DOUGLAS A. MACGREGOR Transformation Under Fire
I served under Col. MacGregor as a M1 Tank Platoon Sergeant in the 4th U.S. Cavalry and would follow him into HELL! QUARTERHORSE SIR!

If we don’t go in to win any way we can then why go at all. The need for a decision is here and now and not down the road. They seem to think our men don’t need anything to win this and will not use what they have avaliable to them. Why not go for the win and not another Vietnam as they are doing so far. We do not need more of out troops diying for nothing and not give them the backing to finish this up and get out. The time for our fighting men is now and in the present and we have what is needed to get the job done and we can get it done if they would get off there butts and do something now because it is now that it is needed not tomorrow, it is now. If they need a tank give it to em and if they some type of aircraft give it to em and not think you don’t want the machines to get hurt they were built to make our men safe so keep them as safe as we can. Let them win and give them the ways and means to do so now because it is now they need it not after it is over.

well, BUSH-no, CHENEY took the Iraq detour..thats why we are still in a bucket o’..WTF!!!!

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