US Less Dominant But So What

US Less Dominant But So What

Last week several respected Washington defense analysts told the House Armed Services Committee that we are in decline while Asia is on the rise.

The best summary of that argument came from Stephen Daggett, sober and thoughtful defense analyst at the Congressional Research Service: “We are in the midst of a shift away from American military predominance towards something different,” Daggett said, “we’re still for several years clearly going to be technologically predominant in military capabilities. How long we’ll have the ability to do all of the above, to project power in every kind, ground forces, maritime forces, air forces, I don’t know, but it’s eroding slowly over time.”

While most military analysts watch China closely and never forget the always ambitious Russians, few have been willing to tell Congress or anyone else that what the Chinese might call the US hegemony is on the wane. Such an essential critique invites a closer look and requires debate, so we contacted a range of strategic and China analysts to get their views. The first commentary is from Joan Johnson-Freese, chair of the Naval War College’s National Security Decision Making program and a top scholar on China’s space program, and Tom Nichols, professor at the Naval War College and a fellow at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government. They argue that, while US power is in decline, there’s no need to panic. We heard similar arguments after the fall of Saigon and everyone shook their heads over those iconic photos of Americans scrambling aboard choppers at the American embassy. Here’s their commentary:


Here we go again.

America, we are told, is losing its strategic dominance, and that the balance of power is shifting from the Western hemisphere (home to the wealthiest, most technologically advanced military alliance in all of human history) to the East, a hemisphere that manages to combine advanced intercontinental ballistic nuclear weaponry with the basically inability to deliver food and clean water to tens, even hundreds, of millions of human beings. It is a familiar story: Our technological achievements are about to be eclipsed, and our military forces–already mired down in a sideshow in Central Asia–will be dwarfed by the shining new militaries of the East. All that is missing is some Soviet Politburo functionary confidently declaring that “the correlation of forces has shifted away from America’s favor” while standing in front of a television reporting the fall of Saigon.

To paraphrase an exasperated Henry Kissinger from those dark days: “What in the name of God is strategic dominance, and what do you do with it?”

The problem is not that America is in decline. It is. But it is relative decline, and this in itself is neither unnatural nor cause for worry. Other countries are growing stronger, in both military and economic terms: the globalization of money, knowledge and technology have ended the days when the United States, through sheer size and power, could control either the international economy or the spread of weapons. Unchallengeable hegemony, which apparently some see as the standard by which American foreign policy success should be measured, is a far more difficult goal today than when Rome ruled the world or Britannia ruled the waves.

But even if America is in relative decline…so what? What does it mean to say that “power is moving East?” After World War II, power moved both East and West–out of Europe and toward North America and Eurasia–and after the Cold War, power was concentrated solely in the U.S. and NATO, at a level beyond all possible reckoning. This was unnatural and unsustainable, and even undesirable, as it meant that the United States became by default the only power that was expected to solve the world’s problems, especially as hideous dictatorships ran amuck in hidden corners of the world once the USSR collapsed and former U.S. and Soviet clients were left without adult supervision.

Saying that power is shifting away from the United States is true but misleading: it is another way of saying that America was once vastly more powerful than any possible coalition of states it faced, but now it is only immensely more powerful than other states, and is likely to remain so for decades to come. (The Soviets, in their day, did have a chance to defeat us, but only because of their huge nuclear arsenal, and their “victory” would have lasted for about 28 minutes.) Recognition of that relative difference has been reflected in recent years in military posture statements seeking, for example, space dominance rather than the space superiority of the past. But nobody has been able to explain what space dominance really means or how to achieve it without perpetuating a constant arms race–either with real competitors or, in the absence of actual challenges, with ourselves.

Our military strength, we are warned, is declining. But is it? In the end, it is important to remember that there is no objective limit to the size or power of the U.S. armed forces; they are as strong as Americans are willing to pay for. And in a country where personal spending exceeds 4 billion dollars a year on cat food and another 6 billion or so on potato chips, that is a huge amount of military potential. America is a land of choice, and right now Americans are worrying more about their homes, schools, health care and jobs than whether the U.S. government spends more on its military than the next fifteen countries, or just the next ten (including multiples of the Chinese military budget), even considering the well-earned personnel and health care costs that makes our military budget seem so much larger than so many others. If “Support the Troops” bumper stickers cost $100, with proceeds donated directly to the Pentagon, it would be interesting to see sales if went up or down.

Is our intellectual base declining? Perhaps, although it is a question that Chinese researchers might want to explore using their American-designed personal computers, running American software, to access an American-owned search engine, to find that the United States holds nearly all the world’s patents and three times as many Nobel Prizes as its nearest competitor. The best and the brightest worldwide, regardless of their politics, strive to study at American universities. Protesters show up at U.S. embassies around the world with a rock in one hand and a visa application in the other.

And so the question remains: what, exactly, do “declinists” fear? That the once-huge gaps in military power and standards of living between East and West are finally closing? Again, this is demonstrably true, but is it a danger to Western security?

What no one ever seems able to answer in all the hand-wringing about “decline” and “competition” is whether any of this can lead to military conflict that threatens the United States or its overall well-being. (This may sound odd at a time when America is engaged in two regional conflicts, but it is easy to forget that these were wars of choice, and that many of the complications in them were the results of our own poor planning, and particularly in the bizarre and already-outmoded belief that small numbers of high-tech soldiers can, like a cadre of Jedi Knights, do better in small numbers what ordinary soldiers have done so well in larger numbers for centuries.)

In short, we need to ask those who fear that decline means war: what would this war be about? Until the declinists can come up with a scenario in which China, or India, or anyone else, actually thinks it is to their advantage to launch a war against the richest, most advanced, and most militarily powerful country in the world (and thereby slash their own throats economically and physically in the process), Americans should accept that a certain amount of prosperity is going to spread to places we’ve become accustomed to thinking of as backward.

Rather than answer this question, declinists instead seek to instill fear and generate a reaction–and any reaction, apparently, will do. An October 2009 cover of The Weekly Standard, for example, featured cover artwork of President Obama wearing academic robes, holding his Nobel medal, and, like Hamlet, contemplating a a bust of Jimmy Carter. “Decline,” the editors wrote, “is a Choice.” Using declinist images and rhetoric is perhaps to be expected in partisan politics. When used in conjunction with the military budget, it can be a ploy for higher budgets. In both cases, however, it is both hackneyed and hyperbolic and each cycle of declinism (and there have been several since 1945) eventually gives way to reality.

Rather than panic, Americans should do what they do best: go to work every day (U.S. workers are still the most productive in the world), invent new things, sell products of exceptional quality and innovation to our partners around the world, explore the sciences from the depths of the oceans to the reaches of space, and train a military force that is committed to peace but whose steadfastness, courage, equipment, and political support from the population make it an exceptionally powerful, effective–and lethal–force that cannot be matched by weapons alone.

“Decline” does not necessarily mean the corrosion of American prosperity or power. When America finally begins to collapse, it will be when we have lost faith in our basic institutions and principles at home, and not because some other country has figured out how to build an aircraft carrier. The greatest investment we can make in our national security is to ensure we retain our commitment to our own way of life and the principles that support it; without that, no amount of military or technological investment will save us if we are faced with an enemy who believes in the possibilities of oppression more than we believe in the massive creative and military potential of freedom.

America is in relative decline. True enough. But we’ve heard it before. Just ask a Soviet…if you can find one.

Join the Conversation

The bigger you are the harder you fall. Thats what this is about. Intellectual, economic, military, and political dominance all hinge on each other. Dominance is what allows us as Americans to live the lives we do at the quality we do. Without dominance everything will become more expensive and it will be more difficult to negotiate in trading. As the US allows its dominance to wane intellectuals will move away from the US and fewer will come here. As our economy wanes it become cheaper to buy our technology, allowing nations to more quickly catch up. Without politcal dominance there is less capability to enforce the patents that protect our technology. The military is our leverage on protecting all these things, but is reliant on the other three to protect its technologic advantage.

Under US dominance, significant good has been. No nation in the history of man kind has done as much to provide aid and ensure an environment allowing mutual benefit. A loss of dominance will mean an end to most of that aid. Will China be as benevolent or show as much compassion or fellowship to other nations?

I understand that no matter what our situation is, we can always find and/or conjure enough evidence to back up our position. Always. What ever happened to “global power, global reach”? That was not so long ago. And now what is it? Regional power, regional reach?

My hands were wringing like crazy thinking about China’s beneign military. What about Taiwan, North Korea, Tibet, and Burma (yes, BURMA)? Oh yes, and Iran, Iraq, and Darfur. Manned space program?

Take a deep breath and smell the reality of it all. Just remember: silk purse= sow’s ear. We will all be fine.

Good Afternoon Folks,

It must be a full moon up in Newport RI. We have another neo-con., what ever you chose to call it.

The U.S. military is not in decline. We are the only country that can move ground troops anywhere in the world we chose.

We are the only country that absolutely controls all the battle spaces. Cyber, Space, Ground, Air, Sea and under sea.

President Obama is the only world leader that can launch a nuclear strike when ever he choses and it’s carried out in less then an hour. At this moment neither the Chines or the Russian have any land based ICBM’s or and SSBM’s that is ready to launch.

We are the only country in the world that can support defense projects that cost in the $100’s of billions.

We are the only country in the world with carrier battle groups that can part on the Chinese door step when ever President Obama wants them to.

At best China and Russia is looking for niches that economists call comparative advantage. So far the Chines have found two. Diesel Submarines, the Song Class and short,medium and long range ballistic missiles. Both of the technologies have been abandoned by the United States decades ago.

Contrary to what is being said about EFP, and U214 technology the conventionally powered submarine is not a threat for the US nuclear boats and US ASW. Their flaw is, they have to come at least to snorkel some time and then they are dead. Soon to be operational USN UUV’s will even up the ante more.

Ballistic missiles of short, med, and long range with conventional ware heads with 200–300 Kg warheads are nothing more then expensive one way conventional bombs.

Hitler discovered this with the V-2. As far as development of these missiles it would appear that the Chinese have a long way to go if the demo a few years ago off Taiwan is any indicator. The missed a rather large target box.

The full mooners have for years complained about the number of these missiles that are pointed at Taiwan. Nobody knows the real answer it could be anywhere from zero to 5K. Since China doesn’t build any expensive weapons in large numbers, I would think that if there are any pointed at Taiwan, it only a hand full. We do know that the military organization in control of all Chinese ballistic and cruse missiles the 2nd. Artillery Corp has removed a HQ detachment from the Fujian MD.

If the U.S. is in such bad technological shape I wonder why the Indian Prime Minister who is visiting President Obama in Washington this week is asking to buy US Patriot 3 AMD systems and not the almost ready Russian S-400 or just announced sometime in the distant future Russian S-500 System.

America is not in decline relative to any other country or group of countries in the world.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

When America finally begins to collapse, it will be when we have lost faith in our basic institutions and principles at home, and not because some other country has figured out how to build an aircraft carrier.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Financial institutions– Check

Public schools– Check

Government fiscal responsibility– Check

Decline is coming, but not from a lack of military dominance.

As long as we have Liberals in Government who want to destroy America from the inside out, then we have a major problem on our hands. You want to know who the enemy is ? Its Liberals who are closet Marxists especially today. Example: Obama who was born in Kenya and runs off of a Marxist, Communist platform. No new surprise there…can you say welfare distribution ? thats a Marxist ideology and something that Barry embraces. No thanks !

decline IS a chocie and barry (aka barack hussein obama) is choosing to push america toward decline.

Obama’s foundation tutored during his career with left-wing marxist radicals such as Bill Ayers and USofKKA J Wright, instruct him that in any argument or confrontation it’s always America’s fault. If America could only mend its ways – or have them mended by someone else – the world would live In peace, harmony and love. In this world view, America and especially the American military must be cut down to size, to make it no more consequential in world affairs than Canada.

KAYAKER

YOU MUST BE OUT OF YOUR MIND WRITING SUCH GARBAGE OR THE WEEDS U’RE SMOKING HAVE MADE YOU LOSE YOUR COMMON SENSE ON REALITY.

Part I :

“…the East, a hemisphere that manages to combine advanced intercontinental ballistic nuclear weaponry with the basically inability to deliver food and clean water to tens, even hundreds, of millions of human beings…”

The children-eating Communists enjoyed (and still enjoy) free estatal health care, universities and life-long jobs etc. for everybody, plus considerably less crime than the U.S.A. . Poor U.S. Americans however are left to die like dogs in abandoned warehouses, even without money for analgesics for their diseases.
TRY to be nobler to yourselves than the Communists, just for A SINGLE HOUR IN YOUR PAST AND FORMER LIVES , go ahead!

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“the globalization of money”

Of money yes, but not of the dollar: Even rat-smart Third Worlders now REFUSE dollars from tourists as payments, even in muddy stenchy street bazaars, did you know that? I can give you links about that. And the first Manhattan restaurants also prefer payments in € over $ !

(Continued)

Part II :

“…the United States, through sheer size and power, could control either the international economy…”

By lending forever from foreigners???

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“…or the spread of weapons.”

LOL !!! WHICH weapon did the U.S.A. ever stop from being sold abroad??! Come on: Does for example the technical term “narco submarine” mean anything in the U.S.A. ?!

(Continued)

Part III :

“Unchallengeable hegemony, which apparently some see as the standard by which American foreign policy success should be measured…”

In the eyes of 1,2 billion Muslims or of 12 million Jews ( = 1 % of that) ? Maybe in the eyes of 400 million Europeans, or 5 billion other people? (Which poll EVER said that you U.S. Americans were popular abroad?)
And if you were thinking of the Nobel Prize which we Europeans offered to Obama: That was ONLY because he’s half Kenyan and half Indonesian! We would NEVER have given it to him if he was U.S. American!

(Continued)

Part VI :

“…Soviet clients were left without adult supervision.”

Ugg boots??? Do you REALLY prefer that the former Soviet satellite states found a new Soviet Union again? ( DON’T complaint afterwards!)

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” (The Soviets, in their day, did have a chance to defeat us, but only because of their huge nuclear arsenal, and their ‘victory’ would have lasted for about 28 minutes.) ”

You mean that in case of war the U.S.A. could / would have defended Europe only conventionally? (The Soviets never wanted more than this rest of Eurasia anyway)

(Continued)

Part V :

“Recognition of that relative difference has been reflected in recent years in military posture statements seeking, for example, space dominance rather than the space superiority of the past.”

“Space domination” with only two Space Shuttles left (the other half of the fleet exploded over your heads), the whole program destined for the welder’s torch next year ( = in a few weeks) and without any viable substitute in place?!

Can you even launch any Space Shuttle on short notice?! Or even at geat intervals, but always ON SCHEDULE , no matter what complications and little fears may arise, without the usual 100.000 delays?!

Or shoot down a satellite – and not only at night, and during new moon (I’m not kidding) ?!

(Continued)

Part VI :

Do you even have a single U.S. American right now in Space?! Is he armed, for example with a stick?

If so, then I have a question: What does your “Master of the Universe”, the “Space Dominator”, do if he runs out of toilet paper?

Don’t you think that it would be reasonable to come back with this “Space domination” announcement in another 100 years from now, quite seriously?

(Continued)

Part VII :

“In the end, it is important to remember that there is no objective limit to the size or power of the U.S. armed forces; they are as strong as Americans are willing to pay for.”

(Not) Sorry for busting your bubble: The unpayable U.S. Armed Forces were over-stretched and defeated by a few aggressive tent– and cave-dwellers, who probably never even switched a lamp bulb in their whole lives!

How about a tiny little third low-intensity conflict now, say… in Iran or in the Venezuelan part of the Amazon jungle?

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“And in a country where personal spending exceeds 4 billion dollars a year on cat food and another 6 billion or so on potato chips, that is a huge amount of military potential…”

You wanna steal cat food and children snacks to build tanks? I thought you wanted to defend their life-styles?

(Continued)

Part VIII :

“…the U.S. government spends more on its military than the next fifteen countries, or just the next ten (including multiples of the Chinese military budget) ”

1) Remind me quickly: Which countries did the P.L.A. or the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation (or Iran, or North Korea) INVADE lately?
And the few small countries which they do threaten with invasion or attack, are they spread all over the globe or are they their own neighbours?

2) How many % of the U.S. American Department of “Defense” ‘s acquisitions are still “defensive” ??

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“If ‘Support the Troops’ bumper stickers cost $100, with proceeds donated directly to the Pentagon, it would be interesting to see sales if went up or down.”

Depends on the fortunes of war, wouldn’t you say?

30 years ago thousands of hippies literally PISSED against the Pentagon façade!

(Continued)

Part IX :

“Is our intellectual base declining?”

You never had one, only after World War Two, and it was imported. Before that, it was façonnable for instructed U.S. Americans to make at least one pilgrimage in their lives to Europe, normally to France.

That time will come again.

(Continued)

Part X :

“Perhaps, although it is a question that Chinese researchers might want to explore using their American-designed personal computers…”

Huawei ( = Chinese computers) isn’t U.S. American. And most computer components except processors are best made by East Asian countries today.

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“…running American software…”

News update: A looong time ago, China already opted nation-wide for Linux, instead of for Microsoft.

And even Microsoft outsources to Absurdistan and Bungladesh.

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“…to access an American-owned search engine…”

Nope: All censored.

(Continued)

Part XI :

“…to find that the United States holds nearly all the world’s patents and three times as many Nobel Prizes as its nearest competitor.”

What nebulae does that peculiar author live in??

“In 2007, Huawei became the 4th largest patent applicant in the world after Matsushita, Philips Electronics and Siemens with 1.365 applications.”

http://​en​.wikipedia​.org/​w​i​k​i​/​H​u​a​w​e​i​#​C​o​m​p​e​t​i​t​i​v​e_p

And that is O-N-E Chinese company only! And the first three ones aren’t U.S. American either!

How much do you wish to pay me to safe-read your hilarious Propaganda articles?

(Continued)

The decline of American power is due neither to the lack of political acumen shown by the current President nor the incompetence of the previous one or the one before. It is the result of several decades in which American policy has been dictated by the short term interests of big capital. Unfortunately the short term gains that politicians bank our future on are in fact bad for capitalism and free industry. This short term view has damaged American economic and political strenght. Movinh jobs to China and then borrowing money from them has been the result of stupidity on the part of government and big capital. Real leaders be they in industry or government do not shortchange their people for a few bucks. What America needs is a real leaders and statesmen not unethical bankers and politicians.

Good Evening FFB,

Yes the US will at some period in the future fail, most likely as things are now from with in. All empire in the past failed and all in the future will. That time is a bit off into the future in modern times Spain and Rome lasted about 500 years England about 350 years the UD has only been at this for about 65 years. We still have our golden period in our future.

FFB you made some comment that I think need clearing up. The Soviet Union is gone, like Nazi Germany, The American Confederacy will likely only in the twisted imaginations of sick people.

The United States education program. This is a favorite topic of the birthers, chicken hawks, and wingers and other Meth addicted beer swilling neo-conservatives. In 2009 the PRC sent 100K under grad. students to US colleges and Universities as did India. in 2000 China sent 85K to US schools, this to me is not showing a downward trend.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

Kayaker,

Advice from President Abraham Lincoln.

“Better to remain silent and let people think you’re a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.”

Respectfully,

Daniel Russ
Civilianmilitaryintelligencegroup​.com

Byron Skinner stop whining about the evil “neo-conservatives”, it is the “neo-liberals” who honestly don’t give a damn about the United States military and would would reduce it to the size of my home state’s national guard if it was convenient enough. And there is no denying our education systems has problems that throwing money at won’t solve. We simply can’t throw money around as such with a multi-trillion dollar debt that is still growing.

We obviously can’t conscript a million soldiers in some attempt to maintain strategic dominance, but what we can do, what we must do, is continue to develop and field new technologies, weapons, vehicles, and aircraft to equip our soldiers with. That gentlemen, must be one of our nation’s priorities. We can’t continue the same cuts we have gotten since Clinton’s “procurement holiday.”

Of course that will hinge on our culture and politics. If society is going to rot and fall apart from within, it will take the military with it. Just look at the Roman Empire.

BTW Byron Skinner I would advise ignoring FreeFallingIdiot over there. All he does is go on anti-American rants because he thinks his home people of Garbagestan are superior in every way. I am convinced he wants nothing more to see America be reduced to nothing. Yet he fails to realize what would happen if those we were fighting took control of his country. It goes without saying he would be one of the first up against the wall…

Part XI :

“…to find that the United States holds nearly all the world’s patents and three times as many Nobel Prizes as its nearest competitor.”

What nebulae does that peculiar author live in??

“In 2007, Huawei became the 4th largest patent applicant in the world after Matsushita, Philips Electronics and Siemens with 1.365 applications.”

(I wanted to enclose a link, but a message popped up the first time saying “Your comment must be approved by the site admins before it will appear publicly.”)

And that is O-N-E Chinese company only! And the first three ones aren’t U.S. American either!

How much do you wish to pay me to safe-read your hilarious Propaganda articles?

(Continued)

Part XI :

“…to find that the United States holds nearly all the world’s patents and three times as many Nobel Prizes as its nearest competitor.”

What nebulae does that peculiar author live in??

“In 2007, Huawei became the 4th largest patent applicant in the world after Matsushita, Philips Electronics and Siemens with 1.365 applications.”

(I tried to enclose a link, but a message popped up saying for 24 hours “Your comment must be approved by the site admins before it will appear publicly.”)

And that is O-N-E Chinese company only! And the first three ones aren’t U.S. American either!

How much do you wish to pay me to safe-read your hilarious Propaganda articles?

(Continued)

Would you believe me that I have ~ ten more posts ready to deconstruct that whole main article, almost phrase by phrase, but that “DoD Buzz” now keeps me from posting any of them?

How dominant is U.S. military power in reality to be so afraid of me? Unbelievable, the COWARDICE … !

I’m beginning to suspect now that that reaction was automatic, and that all I have to do to contour some putative monitoring software is to interlope every 10 successive posts with a reply to someone else, like to you now (send the troll to the front!).

Let me try again:

Part XI :

“…to find that the United States holds nearly all the world’s patents and three times as many Nobel Prizes as its nearest competitor.”

What nebulae does that peculiar author live in??

“In 2007, Huawei became the 4th largest patent applicant in the world after Matsushita, Philips Electronics and Siemens with 1.365 applications.”

(I tried to enclose a link, but a message popped up saying for 24 hours “Your comment must be approved by the site admins before it will appear publicly.”)

And that is O-N-E Chinese company only! And the first three ones aren’t U.S. American either!

How much do you wish to pay me to safe-read your hilarious Propaganda articles?

(Continued)

To the poster Curt Karstens :

You wrote: “Should Americans be concerned about how many aircraft carriers they can park between the Chinese mainland and Taiwan when in so many measurements of social development they rank not only last among developed countries they even rank behind the Cubans.”

and

“But when they kill 130.000 mostly civilian foreigners in another country they call it killing dead enders to SPREAD DEMOCRACY.”

But the article clearly says: “Unchallengeable hegemony, which apparently some see as the standard by which American foreign policy success should be measured…” !

You’re a thought criminal! Clasp your hands behind your head!

To the poster Mr. Byron Skinner:

Part I :

You wrote: “Ballistic missiles of short, med, and long range with conventional ware heads with 200–300 Kg warheads are nothing more then expensive one way conventional bombs.”

I swear that I don’t understand your prediction of the Chinese’s use of their short, medium and long range missiles with “only 200 kg – 300 kg warheads”.
WHAT ON EARTH makes you think that they’re simply gonna waste them on civilian targets (“expensive one way conventional bombs”), like Hitler had to do with his V-2’s (quote: “Hitler discovered this with the V-2″) merely for lack of better reconnaissance and guidance systems?

Things changed on the 25th of February of 1991 ( = during the First Gulf War), when Saddam drove a single of his mobile Scud-B launchers (warhead: 900 kg, C.E.P. : 450 meters) at night into firing range of an U.S. American logistics base at Dhahran, in Eastern Saudi Arabia: 28 dead and 110 severely wounded U.S. soldiers, and the whole base practically destroyed!

(Continued)

Part II :

And I’m genuinely surprised that he didn’t even fire SEVERAL Scuds at that target, to drown its “Patriot” defenses (!) .

What, do you think, does an extremely fast diving, 200 kg – 300 kg heavy missile warhead do against ANY large, docked warship or cargo ship, especially if ignited with a very slight delay?

You’ll practically only be able to enter their firing ranges with constantly moving targets! (And now I myself am ASSUMING TOO that all these Chinese missiles have no terminal guidance phase, “never will, because they’re Communist technology”, otherwise: Choose your ships well!)

Do you also laugh at U.S. American Tomahawk cruise missiles?

And I was just talking about censorship in Red Communist China…

Good Morning Folks,

To William C., first off on debt, was it not then Vice President Cheney who when questioned about the runaway cost of the War in Iraq, said; “…debt doesn’t matter.” The US. pubic debt is estimated to be about $12 trillion, $5 trillion occurred by the last administration, at last count the increase in the public debt by the administration of President Obama is around $700 billion.

I wholly disagree with you about neo-conservatives being pro American and neo-Liberal being anti-American. I will start with us, I’m a bull blown Liberal and have been since High School, I also am a Vietnam Veteran who has 100% disabilities from combat wounds. What military service did you serve in sir? I have yet to run across any neo-conservatives who have been in combat and taken a hit, perhaps you will be a first for me.

To Kurt Kasrens. You ask what China is doing with all it’s money dollars/Euros. For sure they are spending much on their military, with a defense budget under $100 billion the are not doing much basic military technological research or speculative projects that’s for sure. They are sending their young people overseas, many can also be found in Europe, for world class educations and hope they will help the Chinese economy keep growing at the 6% plus annual growth.

Their excess funds are going into buying other countries debt, both the US and the EU like it when China steps up to the bond window.

Lastly FFB’s opinions are just as valid as William C,s., my own or anybody else’s. It is a tactic of the neo-conservatives to limit access to those who don’t agree with them. FFB is a free thinker who is apt to be all over the board, thats cool, that by the way to knuckle head wingers is called being an American.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

Otto Von Bismark once compared the “great powers“
of Europe to strangers in on a train armed with pistols. All they needed was a tunnel and one would fire the first shot.

Multi-polarity is a pipe dream. Without a superpower to enforce “international law”, you can forget so called multi-national efforts.

A future anti-piracy mission could be blocked by nations who benefit from piracy or who just want to make western navies suffer. Relief efforts would be stymied by nations propping up “insurgencies” so that they can benefit from the chaos.

Forget sanctions, nations band together to break them and the west is powerless to stop them as they brush aside diplomatic efforts and the troops send to enforce them.

Remember the US is at the heart of the UN. Without US power propping up the UN, we might as well go back to the league of nations.

A future Hitler or Pol Pot would find their army ready made, a US and NATO powerless to stop them.

ITS a shame alot of you were asleep during President Cheney’s reign..who put us where we are? we coulda, shoulda ended it at Tora Bora..but the job was OUTSOURCED..like so many jobs we used to have here..lol!!! the chi-comms are gonna own us…repukes…

Good Morning Skysoldier,

I agree with all of what you have to say regarding Tora Bora, only you forgot to include the SEALS and the role they played in this gigantic f**k up.

Regarding China we disagree. China is already showing signs of internal stress and fractures.

If you are still active give my regards to the B/2/503, 43 years ago last friday (11/20/66), B/2/503 found themselves caught between the Cambodian border and the 175th. VC Regiment and we came in to give them a hand and a wild E-Ticket night ride (Thunder Run) in the rain back to Bien Hoa.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

Byron Skinner I seems I just can’t be reasonable with you. I have not served in the armed forces though I have pursued a career in defense, but if drafted or the like I would serve to the best of my abilities. I thank you for your service, but that being said, I have met and talked with many servicemen and veterans both in the real world and in online communities, and many of them, if not the majority, were conservatives. Now dissent and disagreement isn’t anti-American, but actively aiding and supporting the enemy, whether it be through blocking the movement of men and materials in “protests” or spreading lies and propaganda like brainwashed FFB over there is essentially treason. And that is anti-American, even if his right to freedom of speech protections the garbage he spews. Now most liberals don’t so this but some either through idiocy or hate do such things. There are some radical conservatives out there but don’t you claim that you liberals have been nothing but supporting and helpful to our troops and country.

For the past 15 years or so you “neo-liberals” have been obsessed with cutting back the size of our military, cutting back research, development, and procurement, and forcing politically correct nonsense down the military’s throat with no benefit whatsoever. Sure it is your right to have such insane opinions, but don’t claim that conservatives like myself are the anti-American ones for wanting a strong military among other things.

Of course I think limiting the access of a brainwashed terrorist loving drone is a sound of tactic of cleansing some idiocy from these comment boards. FFB is a brainwashed troll who should be ignored until he moves on away from here, and he is not an American as evidenced by his statements and opinions. Is is clear he would join the Taliban if he could, despite the fact that they would slice off his head for some idiotic reason.

Byron the big hole in your equation is Obama.

Good Evening William C.

You would have served if you were drafted, big deal. You obviously didn’t have the conviction of your beliefs to step up and volunteer to fight, I did. To those who know the military I was an RA, 11B. Now you prostitute yourself off the military of which you didn’t have the courage to sere in.

You have talked to veterans and find them to be conservative. I’m sure none of those introductions happened in Area 1 of a VA Medical Center. I’m sure none of them were waiting for a clinic in a VAMC that had been canceled because the criminal President Bush had stripped another billion dollars out of the VA Healthcare budge.

These are the men and women who served in your place and took you hit. It will be harder for future Republicans to do because in September President Obama signed in to law a funding billing for VA Healthcare so that the men and women who did serve don.t have to relay on corrupt conservative politicians. I most assure these Veterans are not neo-cons Republicans.

My opinion of you chicken hawk, neo-cons who will send other people and their children into combat that you ran away from is below contempt.

If you haven’t taken a bullet or shrapnel, had a limb or an eye blown out, your skull crushed by an explosion, your ribs and legs broken and your skin ripped and shredded and burned in an armored vehicle you have no right commenting on defense issues.

No William C., I’m not reasonable with cowards who even lack the courage to use their name and say who is paying them for their opinion.

I’m very unreasonable with cowards who make their living exploiting the men and women who have served and are currently serving their country. I very much resent those who though of themselves as to good to serve in the military, their patriotism is only for a paycheck, if al Qaeda would pay you more I have have no reason to believe you wouldn’t be serving them.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

You want to exchange insults, go ahead, like most liberals you would rather try to attack me personally than respond to my arguments. I wasn’t old enough to serve in Vietnam and I don’t consider myself ideal material for a soldier anyway. If trying to get our military the equipment it needs for the 21st century is “prostituting myself” than what shall I refer to your “servicing” of the liberal wing of the Democratic party. Whatever values you might have had back in 1968 have certainly been perverted by whatever kool-aid you have been drinking. I see you on every topic dismissing reports of growing threats, supporting the cancellation or cutbacks of major projects, excusing delays and the lack of strategy in Afghanistan, and putting the President’s social agenda before national security? So you happen to think that a man becomes a liberal who always votes Democrat after he is wounded? It is a shame that reality doesn’t conform to your partisan views. The “criminal” President Bush? Don’t you ever get tired of spewing the same tripe? Do you think that because I am a conservative that I naturally agree with everything he did anyway? Not by a long shot. Yet you are fine clumping up all of the conservatives together as long as it suits your needs, despite the many that are serving in the military.

I am a chicken hawk for supporting the war effort?! Listen up, anybody can pretend to a veteran on the internet. And all too often it is those who make the biggest deal about it that are liars! You say you served in Vietnam, well give me some detail! You can whine about my not serving all you want, but I have always supported the men in uniform and getting them the equipment and political will from Washington they need to win, yet you insult me for it while you make up excuses for the incompetence of the “Hope and Change” administration.

So the people who work developing and building equipment or those in the intelligence community shouldn’t comment on defense issues? Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds? How typical that you would turn on somebody like me before a terrorist-loving America-bashing idiot like FFB. I am exploiting those men by helping to arm and equip them? You and your beloved party has been exploiting the men all you could for political gain, and yet Barack and his party have no idea what to do now. So we have indecision on Afghanistan, no strategic aim, and we are still getting fed the same slash and cut defense proposals we always see with Democratic administrations.

You think I am getting paid for this? I wish I was! But companies like Lockheed or Northrop don’t pay people like me to waste time here. I don’t think of myself as too good to serve in the military either, in fact I will admit I am not up to par when it comes to their expectations. Yet I consider a career in defense as good of a way as any in the civilian world of supporting my country besides serving in the military. My patriotism is only a paycheck? Bullshit, do you have this opinion of everybody at a defense focused company? Unlike you I understand what Al Qaeda’s ultimate goals are, and what they would do to people like FFB once they had used him for all he is worth. I don’t work for the highest bidder.

I lack the courage to use my name? My last name is Collins if you are so obsessed with knowing, yet that doesn’t matter because on the internet I could be a Nigerian prince trying to transfer $10 million to your bank account!

So stuff the holier than thou crap and lets discuss the original topic, our eroding strategic influence, shall we?

Good Morning William C.

Since you have already shown you have no supportable arguments on this topic there is nothing left to talk about other then you lack of patriotism and the pay check you cash that are dripping in the blood of real Americans.

What ever values I have are back in 68, that may be so but I do have values and and not ( can’t use the W word her as per Colin) of course you assume, wrongly, that I’m a Democrat, no wrong again, I’m a liberal and the only Liberal out there right now is Nader.

If your not ideal material to be a soldier, how can you possibly know what they need. You say growing threats, if you have never faced down an enemy in battle how would you know what a threat is.

For years I have picked shrapnel out of my body that was made in China, I’ve been shot at by Chicom Type 56 rifles, Chicom B-60’s and B-61’s, Chicom 57mm and 75mm Recoilless rifles, I have dug up Chicom land mines, I have had Chicom 82mm mortar rounds landing nearby nightly at my night ambush sites or our NDP, and you have the balls to tell me that I don’t know what kind of a threat China is, that is simply bull sh**.

To my buddies, Veterans of Both Vietnam and the current wars over in the VAMCSD Spinal cord Unit, this is the kind of Bullsh**er that started the wars that got you where you at today. William C. is a Defense professional, can you dig it. I will see you in a week at the pain clinic.

Wiliam you have no idea what the military needs of the 21st. Century or nor any other century for that matter.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

Good Morning William.

FFB is no idiot and only a fool would make such a statement. Falstaff speaks for many.

This disregard for the opinion of others only shows the distain that you and others like you have for those who see the world differently. Those who call themselves “Defense Professionals”, are just blood suckers who feel they are superior to the American people. You career in defense is that of just another parasite getting tax payers money.

You understand what al Qaedas goals are, what are they? Lets start at 632 to 1453CE and them move on. Now tell me what are the goals of al Qaeda.

FFB has shown in various posts over the months that he has a much clearer picture then you could ever have of where things are and even of defense, he take obvious joy in mocking defense professionals.

The fact that your representation of the administration of Presidenrt Obama as “..the incompetence of the “Hope and Change” administration’. is blantant racism and very much is the true opinion of both Republicans and Conservatives. Get a grip William it not South Carolina 1850 any more.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

I can almost see Ms. Frees marching in place beside her desk. She ignores the fact we have lost much of our defense industrial base. The Arsenal of Democracy can’t provide us with surge capacity if we need it in the future. Go shopping on the world market for war materiel if there’s a major confrontation? Please.

She notes foreign students are clamoring for a U.S. education. What she chooses to ignore is the unplesant fact that foreign students–especially from China–are stealing us blind in terms of taxpayer-funded research data. We’re paying billions to these universities for dual-use technology R&D and it is being copied by the terabyte by foreign grad students in exhange for tuition dollars and slave-labor lab work. Little wonder the Chinese have been able to ramp up so fast. Little wonder we are “losing” our technology edge. We are giving away our technology edge as fast as their agents, I mean students, can download it.

Just a few things landmark events to consider in reference to the China is no threat comments:

1. First indigenous 4th generation fighter the J-10 enters service(2004).
2. American spy satellites are attacked by Chinese ground based high energy lasers several times (Defense News, September 2006).
3. January 11th, 2007 China successfully destroys a defunct weather satellite with a ASAT missile.
4. Chinese Song Class submarine surfaces within the USN Kitty Hawk carrier battle group (within torpedo range)after penetrating USN defenses, November 2007.
5. Chinese large new underground submarine base on Hainan Island confirmed by Jane’s and Federation of American Scientists — May 2008.
6. Chinese hackers break into critical areas of the US power grid and install control programs that would allow them to turn off and disrupt large parts of the US power system (Wall St Journal April 2009).
7. Chinese hackers steal several terabytes of data from the F-35 program related to design and electronics systems (Wall St. Journal April 2009).
8. Imint & Analysis gives overview of 3 new Chinese ground based LASER ASAT facilities, November 2009.
ttp://geimint.blogspot.com/2009/11/chinas-other-asat.html
9. Pakistan signs deal for 36 Chinese 4.5 generation J-10B fighters (new and improved fighter with DSI inlet,PESA/AESA radar, etc), Flight Global — November 13th, 2009.
10. Chinese confirm 5th generation fighter program with first test flights scheduled for the near future, Flight Global November, 2009.

This is just a smattering of some of the major events that continue to occur related to China and its rapidly developing and evolving armed forces. It seems that the Chinese have not been briefed on the dangers of next-war-itis!

Good Afternoon RSF,

You make it simple by the num,bers.

!. The J-10 “Vigorus Dragon” is not a 4th. Generation fighter. it’s air frame is the Israels Iai Levi, the engine is Russian Mig 29 vintage, it’s avionics are from France and it’s weapons systems are Russian and Israeli. Total production for the PLAAF is 120 units. The J-10B is an export variant and no more the 40 are expected to be build. Both China and the USAF call the J-10 comparable to the F-16A, one of which was sold in the 1980’s to Pakistan was then flown to China.

2. Never confirmed, very unlikely. The US would take an attack on one of it’s satellite the same as an attack on the US itself and would have protested. These evens reside in the minds of conservative think tanks.

3. So what, the Russian did this in the 1980’s. The US can do it from a ship at sea, everyday of the week.

4. Yes a Song Class, I will give you credit for at least getting the class of the submarine correct, did in fact surfaced in the middle of the U.S.S. Kitty Hawk Battle Group and got some post card pictures for the folks in Beijing, the Hawk was on a touch and go training exercise in the Yellow Sea. The battle group was in training mode was without it’s SSN(s), FFG’s, DD’s or CG’s, and had it’s Seahawks on deck and all ASW turned off. Very sloppy on the part of the USN. Fire the Admirals, not the Bush Administration, no instead promote them to DNI and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs.

5. It’s an old sea cave on Hianan Island and you forgot to mention that China has it’s one and so far only Type-094 AASN parked there, waiting for China to develop the Sl-2 missile for it.

6. Never happened.

7. Oops, Lockheed three days after posting this story retracted it. The missing disc were found in a safe.

8. Ok so what does it mean?

9. Pakistan would much rather have 36 F-16D’s but we won’t sell them to Pakistan so they have to go after second best.

10. Where did you get this one in a fortune cookie. The Chinese are in development of the J-12xxs of witch the first two are sitting on Hianan Island in the South China sea. Not even the Chinese news agency who has a tendency to over state every thing claims the J-12xxs is a 5th. Generation fighter. When it will go into production. The about 2025 is an estimate. By that time there will be no more manned fighters and the next generation replacements for the X-45 and the X-47B will be in the works.

RSF you forgot the ballistic missiles in Fujian Provence that are pointed at Tiawan, very important.

In short RSF there are no land marks here just the the limited imaginations of anti intellectual conservative think tanks at work. Me thinks you would be ahead of the game intellectually if you went back to reading sci-fi comics.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

so only non conservative think tanks are smart?

Also Byron it disgusts me to see somebody like yourself supporting the brainless rants of FFB. Your patting the kid on the back despite how he claims we Americans are “ethnically inferior”, glories the Taliban and our opponents, argues we should strip the military budget down to nothing, and generally goes on an America bashing rant every couple of posts. Has your hate towards me twisted your brain that much into supporting such rambling idiocy? FFB has said nothing even remotely useful and you kiss his ass, how pathetic.

No I don’t think myself superior to the American people and no I am not a parasite for supporting a strong military. The real parasites are the ones you and your ilk would cut defense funding for in order to benefit.

Racism? Your wisdom is appreciated Carter! How typical. Yet it honestly doesn’t matter what I say here, because you’ll call it racism anyway!

You come into this topic whining about the “evil” Republicans, conservatives, “neo-cons”, and spewing all sorts of leftist drivel, and when somebody confronts you about it you immediately attack them personally or accuse them of racism and so forth. I have nothing else left to say to you Byron.

Ignore him, he has gone into bat-shit crazy liberal mode.

“Anti-intellectual conservative think tanks”? Seriously Byron, how many leftist buzzwords can you fit into a single phrase? Impress me.

Bryon Skinner, cut the leftist crap and don’t come into every topic whining about conservative think-tanks, the vast right wing conspiracy or whatever. William C. does his job and don’t attack him for it.

William C. respect Byron’s service in Vietnam and don’t go into a political rant to counter his political rantings.

I don’t like to try and moderate things but get this back on track people.

Listen up Byron,
Cut the “I served and you didn’t” argument. I try and assess what our soldiers need for today and the future, and I have access to information including experience gathered on the front-lines, potential threats, recent technological developments, and the age and status of our current equipment. You clearly have no idea of how the defense world works if you think everybody involved must have served in a war zone in some way. You can accuse me or anybody down in a factory floor of exploiting the country all you want, but your statements are utter BS driven by your far-left views. Yet apparently long term political goals become before integrity apparently, judging from your attitude to me, conservatives in general, and your attitude towards the defense industry and intelligence community. Even by your twisted logic you are in no position to judge what our soldiers need either since you are not actively in Iraq or Afghanistan.

I started this war? For God’s sake do you even read what you write? I am not the President of the United States or a member of congress, it is my job to analysis equipment, threats, and needs, not to declare war. If I support the choice of originally going to war I doesn’t effect the decision of our policy-makers.

Guess what, I can’t see until 2100, and you can’t either. But at least I have ideas and legitimate concerns unlike yourself who rapidly dismisses any notion of a hostile PRC and seems to think we should be flying 30 year old F-15s and F-16s until we replace them all with UCAVs.

Listen up, the Boeing X-45 and Northrop X-47 are partly technology demonstrators and if adapted to production aircraft will often be serving in a manner similar to our current UAVs. Their air-to-air capability is limited to self-defense and there are situations where other manned ground attack aircraft are the better pick. Based on concerns raised about UCAVs I see no reason to believe the F-35 will be the last manned fighter. I could try to explain what I believe we will see, but your going to dismiss it anyway because I am not a screaming liberal.

Good Morning Folks,

William C.‘s arguments are nothing but unvarnished pure racism, be it against the Chinese or the president of the United States. The firm he works for appears to endorse his point of view.

End of argument.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

Good Morning Peace Through Strength,

I calls it as I sees ‘em, and if you want to get involved in supporting right wing racist opinion, Williams C’s. whos job is to spread the racism of his his employer, most likely a “conservative think tank”, thats your business. William C’s. remarks paint all conservative with racism. It is you right although, you are to cowardly to use your name, to support racism as it is my right to call you on it.

What ever problems there maybe with China, the Chinese should be dealt with respect, and a through and truthful examination of the evidence, not by the fictitious “facts” as posted by RSF. I disputed all of RSE’s ten bullet points but you nor anybody else has offered any counter arguments.

It is the racist conservatives who can’t put up supportable evidence to back their opinions, they have no response to factual evidence, not the liberals. It appears that these “thinks tanks” have little if any knowledge about the PRC, but yet want to peddle something they call a learned opinion.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

If you haven’t taken a bullet or shrapnel, had a limb or an eye blown out, your skull crushed by an explosion, your ribs and legs broken and your skin ripped and shredded and burned in an armored vehicle you have no right commenting on defense issues.

Skinner, that is a deeply disturbing idea because you just said that for example my drill sargent recently promoted to E-7 with 36 months of combat duty, has no right to comment on defense issues.

You are saying that no politician has a right to comment on defense issues, that virtually no officer in the army today has a right to comment on defense issues.

No matter what you may say about any political views that disagree with yours, that by far is THE SINGLE most telling statement about who you are and what you think.

No long can I even believe that you are a clear thinking individual. Your judgement of any issue is so clouded that there will never be any type of middle ground in any debate with you. In your mind it is your way or the wrong way. Left right or anarchist, that view is something only less dangerous than apathy.

An E-3 political science major.

Remember Nazi Germany wasn’t building a war machine in hiding?. Remembers Albert Pike’s plan to bring about “bankster” world-govt. by having communism and capitalism smash each other to bits so the pieces could be easily re-empired. Remember China owns a port in Long Beach Harbor (thanks Clinton); has a 99-year lease on the Panama Canal; built the largest deep-water port in the Bahamas; THEY’RE COMMUNISTS~! (incidentally, with a goal to own the planet); can field a 100-million man army (theoretically) and their buddy Russia has the largest cavalry on the planet (1/4 mill) and a few EMP– pulses (say from strategically-placed cargo containers) would knock our grid in the dirt.
China recently choose to sit at the global-elite poker table so it could do unto US as Reagan did unto USSR. However, China isn’t going with Pike’s vision on this one, and unlike Hitler, the banksters will not be in a position to stop thier puppet. Don’t doubt for a minute that commies wouldn’t trade EVERYTHING to OWN US.

To the poster Mr. Byron Skinner:

Part I :

You wrote: “… he ( = I, ‘freefallingbomb’) takes obvious joy in mocking defense professionals.”

“Defense” maybe, “professionals”… not so sure about it: Some pumped-up Superbowl patriots here (but especially back on “Defense Tech”) turn even well-mannered posters into trolls, like for example that unique “SMSgt Mac” fellow who dares to “explain” to us how the U.S. Navy “dealt a crushing blow to Japan” at Pearl Harbour, or some “Stevens” dude who defends that Bush “should invade Vietnam again, because under Bush we would never have lost it in the first place”, etc. etc. …

Maybe I should be more egalitarian ( = more hypocritical) towards inferior minds, after all, such poster plankton constitutes 99 % of all Internet chatters, but hey – what “adult” in the REAL world sincerely believes that his country “never” lost ANY battle in war, and will dominate all planets forever and ever??

(Continued)

Part II :

And Sergeant Mac even is a Vietnam veteran, like you, so he already knows that very unnatural feeling of having other people shooting at you! (Don’t worry: I’m plainly aware of your differences. You may not be totally, totally unsentimental and technical either about some hard lessons – but useful lessons, including for everybody! – which the U.S.A. – AND their enemies too! – learned in past wars, meaning it’s not your style to use them freely, in a didactic manner, to point out problems and alternatives etc., but at least you never defend any outrageous points of view for psyched-out chauvinism’s sake. And Y-E-S , I WAS just accusing YOU TOO of attempted, coy patriotism! Now the William Collins bunch will definitively think that I’m from Mars…)

(Continued)

Part III :

About this thread’s topic: In the meantime, while U.S. Americans fear about their “global dominance”, about taxing their poor multi-billionaires “too much” and about how unprofitable (how “Communist”…) any type of Welfare is, ironically even as they offer TENS OF BILLIONS of taxpayers’ bail-out money (“T.A.R.P.”) to their obsolete, bankrupt bank C.E.O.s, so that these can stuff it into their own pockets “as yearly productivity bonuses” (even when they no longer work there!!!), and appoint the Mega-criminal Jew Bernard Madoff as chairman of the NASDAQ, etc. etc., all that of course only not to pinch the holy tenet called “preservation of capital”, one of America’s boogey monsters of the moment, Fidel Castro’s buddy-buddy Hugo Chavez, sends FREE OIL to the U.S.A.‘s poorest, this year again (to 180.000 U.S. American households, for central heating), to keep U.S. Americans living in the coldest regions from dying of hypothermia (exposure) in their own houses!

(Continued)

Part IV :

You may not hear about it on Reptard Fox News, but I SWEAR that I’m not kidding! “Google” or “Yahoo!” it here:

Search words:

“Chavez” + “free” + “oil” + “US” + “central” + “heating” + “poor”

http://​search​.yahoo​.com/​s​e​a​r​c​h​;​_​y​l​t​=​A​0​g​e​u​r​r​s​6​x​JLs

Hugo Chavez has been helping (saving!) the U.S.A.‘s poorest for several winters now with his free oil, even while the oil-magnate Chimp made veiled invasion threats against Venezuela!

I believe that the Aussies refer to something like that as “a flash in the pan”. (We gruff Euros call it simply a “slap in the face”)
That’s how far things have gotten already: America’s “worst enemies”, Marxist non-Whites on top of that, care ( = as in “charity”) more for its easily manipulated population’s survival than any of its re-elected W.A.S.P. Führers!

(Continued)

Part V :

Maybe U.S. Presidents are just not Venezuelan enough to treat their own population humanely?

If you still harbour any lingering doubts about how much your Führers truly love and thank you, remember for example Dubya’s “prompt aid” to the disaster victims of Katrina!
That apple didn’t fall far from the tree either: While visiting a Houston ( = Texas) relief center for people displaced by Hurricane Katrina, Bush’s mother also told the radio program “Marketplace” :

“Almost everyone I’ve talked to says, ‘We’re gonna move to Houston.’ What I’m hearing, which is sort of scary, is they all want to stay in Texas… Everybody is so overwhelmed by the hospitality, and so many of the people in the arenas here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this (she chuckles slightly) is working very well for them.”

http://​en​.wikipedia​.org/​w​i​k​i​/​B​a​r​b​a​r​a​_​B​u​s​h​#​O​u​t​s​pok

(Continued)

Part VI :

A final word to all PATRIOTIC IDIOTS here: Barbara Bush also said on prime time TV that the deaths of U.S. American soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan are “IRRELEVANT” !

But I’m sure that her binge-drinking, cocaine-sniffing, draft-dodging son thought very differently of his “noble warriors against global Terrorism”.

(Unfortunately) I wasn’t married to Eva Braun, but I can’t imagine that she ever made comparable comments – in public or in private – about Wehrmacht soldiers dying everywhere.

Sometimes I suspect that deep down there Chavez is a subversive undercover Capitalist, a “sleeping” Neocon agent (!) : Czarist Russia’s fall and post-Versailles’ Germany taught us that if only enough people die of hunger and cold, then you have a revolution or something worse, especially with the rapid diffusion of bad news in today’s era.

Gotta have a word with that Chavez spoilsports…

(Continued)

Part VII :

You wrote: “It appears that these ‘thinks tanks’ have little if any knowledge about the PRC, but yet want to peddle something they call a learned opinion.”

Most (if not all) think tanks like the R.AN.D. Corporation, the Aspen Institute, your favourite one, the Heritage Foundation, my “favourite” one, the Project for the New American Century (“P.N.A.C.”), etc., aren’t neutral, either they have their own agenda or they were deliberately created to promote a party’s projects. Of course they won’t admit that, but that’s why they’re mostly headed by charismatic or influential people, or by their ( $ ) patron’s front-men, almost never by social or natural top scientists.

When in doubt cry racism! eh Byron Skinner? Take a lesson from Byron here folks, while freedom of speech is all fine and good, anything that doesn’t abide with the politically correct liberal viewpoint is RACISM! Simply pathetic.

I don’t give a damn if Obama is black, I don’t want him to get shot or killed. What I give a damn about is his party’s damaging policies and their venomous supporters.

I would love to get paid by Northrop or Lockheed for commenting here but I don’t. Yet clearly there can be no convincing you two when you believe such defense companies are plotting some evil racist takeover of the United States. For God’s sake think about what you are typing before you post it.

China doesn’t have to lick boots to get R&D (after they steal it) under way– it’s more like an “offer you can’t refuse” and, DHARPA might want to fund our South Korean hackers because if the “military buck” costs a buck fifty — I say throw three at it~! The E-5s need the “Goldman Saxs” bonus!

Freedom is priceless – the paradigm (like ocean beach) has shifted underfoot and the cyber-war is on for awhile now. US Patriots generally aren’t racists despite the “news” to the contrary and it is pretty clear WE are all in this together and WE’re real good even off-grid – some MEN are longer than others, but nano-bots are cool too. : )

Good Evening William C.,

You made you statement, now you don’t even have the guts to stand by it, like all racist. Did you know that a study by Brown Univ. in the early part of the last Century it took an average of 12 armed racist to lynch one un armed African American.

Let’s see you won’t use you name, most racist don’t I would assume. But again I’ve never known a racist that stood up and said I’m a racist and proud of it, every single one of them claimed when confronted that they weren’t a racists.

So now according to you to object to racism is to be guilty of being politically correct and pointing out racism is being liberal. Gee nobody has ever called me politically correct before, I kind of like it.

Post more William C. I love watching you dig yourself in deeper.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

Good Evening War Pony,

Please stop using the word Patriot, since to the best of my knowledge the US Code has reserved the “official” use of the word Patriot to holders Purple Heart Medal.

All Patriots have the Purple Heart Patriots like Medal John Kerry, Bob Kerry and myself, if you don’t, well your like William C. just not man enough to put on the uniform of his country.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner
Life Member of the MOPH

I’ve taken my hits and didn’t need a ribbon to rag. US Patriots will continue on with or without your blessing. Thank you or your sacrifice, please don’t discount thouse MIA.

And BTW, i wore army colors

Byron, I understand Patriotism and I am not ashamed of fighting enemies foreign or DOMESTIC. Perhaps I didn’t catch shrapnel in ‘nam or Operations IF or EF — doesn’t mean we didn’t fight or went down swinging. Do you believe entrenched commy ops don’t exist stateside?

When WE talk about US DOMINANCE, WE better factor in the population, ‘cause, even those that didn’t wear colors have sacrificed also, and aren’t about to give up — ribbons or no.

The US has to remain strong on every front regardless of the Liberal defeatist mindset that runs America today. Without this stance, countries like China and Russia who are historical communist allies will dominate everything and that can’t happen. China is still a communist country with plans for expansion. Russia, led by former hard line communists are running along similar objectives with that of China. They would just love to see the USA defeated.

Good Morning War Pony,

All of us who laced up a pair of combat boots and followed the beat of the big guns know the price of being an American. I find it amusing that a slacker like William C. has the balls to say that he: “…but I have always supported the men (not the women I guess) in uniform and getting them the equipment and the political will (in) Washington they need to win.” My question War Pony is how does the slacker William C. have a clue of the the men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan need?

My problem with “conservatives” is that they have, as best I can tell, always been supporting the wrong side or those fighting Americans. As best I can tell my families surname came to this country after the battle of Bougogne and settled as small dirt poor farmers in the Shenandoah Valley where the name Skinner is still fairly common.

During the American Revolution “conservatives” were the Tory Puritans of New England and the Planters of South Carolina who gave aid and comfort to the British Army. Of course it was these “conservatives” who bought for pennies on the dollar land grants to Veterans.

In the War of 1812 “conservative” New Englanders wanted to breakaway from the United States and become part of British Canada and actually sent a delegation to London to partition Parliament and the King. The kick in the six of course the war was fought to protect the New England merchants form haveing the crews of their ships impressed into the British Navy.

In the Civil War of course “conservatives” were treasonous military officers who turned coat on their country and fought for the enemy, as well as New England Mill owners and New York Puritan Bankers who still did business with the rebellious southern states while Union soldiers were dying. The after the war it was the New England Congressmen and Senators who fought to award Veterans pensions and healthcare to wounded Union Veterans, the country just can’t afford it they said.

In the 20t. Century it was “conservatives” who supported Nazi germany and companies like IMB that did business with Nazi germany DURING the war and the had the guts to file damage claims against the allies for damage done by US and British bombing to it tabulator machines that they were keeping to Nazi Germany to track the people that were sent to the death camps. It is also note that this same IMB sold it’s personal computer business to Lenovo of the PRC along with the Columbia South Carolina research facility that had DoD contracts and a secured facility on the 3ed. Floor. If IMB would sell the Columbia Labs the PRC was going to walk on the deal.

It is also noted that Republican “conservative” members of Congress opposed the “1944 Serviceman Readjustment Act“
not unlike the current healthcare debate.

During the Cold War, it was the “conservatives” who constantly keep prodding for more and more useless never to be used weapons systems.

Then in was the “conservatives” who took the credit for bringing down the Soviet Union, bull sh** it was Mikhail Gorbachev. Gorbachev even gave the “conservatives” the change to bring down the Soviet Union in Reykjavik and Reagan fumbled the ball.

No War Pony, my family has been engaged in one form or another in all the wars this country has been in up to and including Vietnam.

In every case we had to fight not only an enemy but our fellow “conservative” Americans, who found it in their best interest to support the enemy. Now they want our sons and daughters to fight a war they want with China. If that war ever comes to be I’m sure the “conservatives” will find a way to follow the money and side with China.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

Good afternoon Byron.

Please reference the post where I said something racist? I am sure you will be “unable” to find it or you will conveniently ignore this comment.

To you any dissent or disagreement with the current president’s policies and his party’s goals is “racism.” And your posts only confirm how you are little more than a blinded follower of false ideals and government bureaucracy.

Byron Byron Byron, tsk tsk tsk. How is it mentally possible for somebody to be brainwashed so completely to this idiotic leftist mindset of yours. The modern definitions of liberal and conservative didn’t even emerge until the 1950s and 1960s, but even ignoring that lets have a simplistic review of history for you shall we? During the years of the American revolution the political mindset was so different that you can’t classify anybody involved. Yet regardless, the “liberals” back then weren’t demanding the new government give them free healthcare, weren’t demanding gun control and government involvement in everything, and weren’t afraid of bashing some heads like when the Barbary pirates were proving to be a serious problem. Because you are obviously labeling all Democrats as liberals and all Republicans as conservatives it doesn’t surprise me that you forget that the Republican party who brought emancipation to the slaves. A large portion of the “religious right” you leftists always whine about had been the ones supporting the movement before the war. It was the southern Democrats who led to secession from the union and established the Confederacy.

In the 1930s the Republicans were clearly an isolationist party, as were most Americans following World War One, and until the attack on Pearl Harbor. But until FDR the Democrats also had a rather isolationist stance as well.

As I was saying, the modern definition of “liberals” and “conservatives” didn’t emerge until the 1950s and 1960s when the “new left” (you and your ilk) emerged. The radicals of this “new left” praised the USSR for their socialism and accomplishments, and wanted the US to follow down a similar path. In the government the Democrats were clearly influenced and pushed all kinds of social programs, most of which are still draining billions of dollars worth of mandatory spending today, and are incredibly wasteful. On the civilian side besides for the actual “hippies” you had leftists with completely unrealistic and irresponsible social ideals, demands for the US to pretty much destroy it’s nation defense, industrial, and aerospace capabilities, and plainly wanting to recreate America to their own vision, constitution be damned. This crowd was the one insulting veterans coming home from Vietnam and supporting the North Vietnamese and Vietcong at every opportunity. In the 1980s the hippies may have mostly vanished, but the “new left” is still around, only slightly less radical, and wanting the US to become exactly like Europe. The Democrats are still influenced by their drivel, wanting a second “Great Society” and they are certainly willing to carve up our military to do it.

Still pissed about me not using my full name all the time Byron? Get over it. You can lie and whine all you want but I have the utmost respect for our soldiers despite what you say, and I don’t think myself superior to men who volunteer to face our enemies. I fully respect your possible service in Vietnam too, but that being said, it doesn’t excuse your insane political ranting and personal attacks on myself. Tell me Byron, do you realize that without companies and businesses specializing in defense our soldiers would be outclassed and outgunned at every turn? Your idea that everybody who comments on defense must have been wounded in action is simply foolish. Just because I never wasn’t a soldier or marine doesn’t mean I can’t look at our soldier’s needs, analyze their equipment, and offer suggestions for this war and the next!

It has been you “liberals” who are always creating justification for the enemy, always hamstringing our defense, and using every crisis for your political benefit. You are always on here demanding programs like the F-22 and now the F-35 get canceled, hoping our military sees further cuts, and dismissing any threat posed by new Chinese equipment, and Russian equipment which is widely exported. You are under the impression that we can somehow keep flying the same aircraft for another 30 years. You are so blinded where you now do nothing else but spam insults about the “evil” GOP and conservatives. It is quite unfortunate because you used to make some interesting posts, even if I disagreed with them, before you resorted to insane political drivel. So stop coming on every topic and whining about the “evil” conservatives, liberal superiority, or whatever other bullsh** you have up your sleeves and actually contribute to the discussion Byron.

As my other comment has not appeared for some reason let me restate what I was saying.

The “new left” meaning you and your ilk emerged in the 1950s and 1960s. This “new left” wanted socialism, praised the USSR for their accomplishments and wanted to recreate America to their “vision”. On the government end of things, the Democratic party was clearly influenced and as a result we got countless social programs, the mandatory spending involved now costs us billions per year and gives the taxpayer little to show for it. On the civilian end, besides for the actual “hippies” you had the leftists who promoted social chaos and irresponsibility, wanted the government to pay for pretty much everything, and would have gladly destroyed our national defense, industry, and aerospace capabilites. In the 1980s the hippies may have mostly vanished, but the “new left” is still around and only slightly less radical, pretty match wanting the US to become exactly like Europe, constitution be damned. They still influence the Democratic party who would gladly cut the defense budget down to nothing in order to pay for this second “Great Society” plan of theirs. Meanwhile none of the real problems we face are being addressed.

Dear “The Sky is Falling” Kayaker,

We will do more to lead the world by upholding justice and peace than by invading and occupying or struggling to “dominate on every front”. China is our largest trading partner and their expansion depends in large part on their relationship with us. Yes, they are expanding. How do you propose to stop it? And Russia is an ally. We have a very powerful and competent military and mostly stateless enemies. Stop worrying so much.

Respectfully,

Daniel Russ
Civilianmilitaryintelligencegroup​.com

Byron Skinner,
In 1776 citizens did not give themselves “conservative” or “liberal” labels, in fact those you refer to as “liberals” back then pretty much share the same beliefs “conservatives” do today. They certainly weren’t demanding the new government we would found pay for their health-care or bring about gun control laws. In the next century the “religious right” you liberals always like to bitch about one were supporting the abolition of slavery. It was the Republican party who would emancipate the slaves during the civil war and the pro-slavery Democrats in the south who formed the Confederacy. Yet apparently all of us Republicans are racist today for not supporting every affirmative action or welfare program program that came from Washington in the past, for not supporting this abomination of a healthcare bill, and opposing the government bailing individuals who bought more than they could afford and knew it.

The 1930s and early 1940s? Again modern liberals had not come into existence. The Republican party was clearly isolationist then, but considering our experience in World War I, it is difficult to blame the attitude of many Americans prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor.

The “new left” developed sometime in the 1950s and 1960s. It embraced socialism and praised the USSR, it promoted social chaos and irresponsibility.

As my other comment has not appeared for some reason let me restate it.

The “new left” meaning you and your ilk emerged in the 1950s and 1960s. This “new left” wanted socialism, promoted social irresponsibility, wanted the government to pay for pretty much everything, and would have gladly destroyed our national defense, industry, and aerospace capabilities. In the 1980s the “hippies” of the 1960s may have mostly vanished, but the “new left” is still around and only slightly less radical. Like Byron here they pretty much want the US to become exactly like Europe, regardless of a little thing called the Constitution. They still influence the Democratic party who would gladly cut the defense budget down to nothing in order to pay for this second “Great Society” plan of theirs. Meanwhile we are in trillions of dollars of debt while such plans starting with health-care are being discussed, and our aging aircraft and vehicles aren’t getting any younger.

I find it odd that Byron would support those who in the 1960s insulted and abused veterans such as himself and paid no heed to the service they gave their country.

This is the goal of the progressive democrat party. The more sheeple they can push onto the government dole the larger they can grow. Every welfare recipient is a democrat vote. The current decline we find ourselves in is by design. It does not require a PhD or even GED to see that the policies being promoted by the Obama, Pelosi, Reid cabal are in no way designed to resolve the issue we face. They, in fact, are designed to exacerbate them. Health care reform is about control and growing government, Cap and Trade is about control and growing government, the bailout is not about jobs…it’s about…guess…you got it, control and growing government. These policies are about putting this country in decline. The solution is voting these progressive out of office. The decline will stop.

“So What” indeed. American exceptionalism is now reason for shame for some. The current administration continues to undermine the American experience every chance he gets. The progressive movement in this country has been very successful, since the 1930’s, in undermining our heritage, our institutions, and principles. They have taken control of academia, the media (to include hollywood), the scientific community, and with the current administration, government. So, is it any wonder that we are in “decline”?

Part 1 –Other countries always were supposed to catch up with us, weren’t they? Or was our secret plan to withhold properity and innovation from all other countries other than ours? If our goal is to keep the world subjugated by force, then we do indeed have a problem, but if we really intend to deal with them as equally capable of achieving their own goals and taking responsibility for their own well-being, then what is the problem? If we are weary of the expense and the lack of appreciation we are getting from playing big brother, then maybe we should stop treating other countries as young children who shouldn’t be allowed to play with the dangerous toys.…Let them have nuclear or biological weapons.…definitely not…but neither should we be playing with those things either. But whether we out gun every other country on earth 3:1 or 5:1, it is pretty safe to say that we can take care of ourselves.

Part 2 — Now, we have to start taking care of ourselves…be fiscally responsible, dedicate more of our attention on caring for our own people, determine what is our most responsible way to use our environment.…all the hard things that we have been putting off while sticking our nose in other countries business. I am not entirely sure what the correct solution is to many of these problems. I am not entirely confident that a “one-size-fits-all” federal government approach is the way to go, but can we please start speaking or our institutions and fellow countrymen with some small amount of respect? They may not be proposing the best answers, but at least they are proposing answers. If you have better ones.…contribute them to the conversation.

Part 3 — This is what is causing the decline in America.…polarization. One side HATES the other. One side absolutely refuses to consider the ideas of the the other. That is not the America that I grew up in. It is not the liberals or the neo-conservatives that are the problem, it is the intolerant, narrow minded, cock sure members of every type that cannot possibly restrain their rage long enough to hear the other side out. Every word is a put down of whatever is said.…no new ideas or other ways of looking at the problem.….just ranting and raving about evilness of the other side. If we are declining, I declare this is the cause. We do need to take care of our people and our environment. We do need to pay our bills. We don’t necessarily need to create huge federal agencies everytime we discover a problem. These are all good points that can be culled out of the arguments of both sides. Now, if we could just stop demonizing each other, maybe we could expend some of that pent up energy on solving our problems and create solutions that will again assert our dominance in the area of problem solving.

Good Afternoon FFB,

Thank you for the correction. It appears that the racist is babbling to himself FFB.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

Congress is to blame as they let go of the damn checkbook and once WE clean our own house, WE can clean another — United States has been there and done that from the Revolution (SAR, SRT & SNWO (not)) c’mon~!

Ask Barney Frank if he’ll Pony Up and abolish (meant audit the Federal Reserve and) the Zion agenda!?

“US Less Dominant But So What”!!! = Planned obsolescence and tyranny. Spreckin ze RHRE?

What is with the disappearing and reappearing comments? Now I have three comments restating the same things because the earlier ones vanished and are now back.

The current comment system is an improvement, but there is still work to be done evidently.

Yep that’s the key Byron, shout out “racist!!!” in an attempt to drown out the oppositions, ignoring the fact that I haven’t even said anything racist.

“When America finally begins to collapse, it will be when we have lost faith in our basic institutions and principles at home, …”

Exactly, and that is where the USA is today. So while the author dismisses the potential for conflict based on a lack of obvious threat, it is a naive person who abdicates the post-war era posture of the United States in favor of more social spending and international uncertainties.

It is sad to say that the fall of the U.S will come from within. We have too many people in our country who sit around on their rear ends with their hand held out saying “gimme, you owe me. Im a victim and it is your fault.” They see no need for an education or to better themselves. Their biggest ambition in life is double wide and a disability check.

Kayaker– Have you been double lining your home with tin foil? The mind control rays worked well when you only used a single layer of tin foil. But if we find out you are double layering then there will be consequences. You do remember the last time you tried to block the mind control rays and what happened to you as a result?

You can’t remember? Of course. Sorry. But let me tell, it wasn’t pleasant nor was it pretty. Best to avoid any recurrence.

In fact the first gun control laws were created so that blacks could not own firearms and protect themselves even in their own homes. A close look at today’s gun controls have the same effect if not intent. The whole legacy of gun control is based upon racism thatwas promoted by the Southern Democrats.

You have either NEVER been in a communist country or you went and stayed only briefly. Those comments are so ridicoulous they are hardly worth a retort. Less crime? Well, in the US the type of treatment doled out there by their “police” alone would BE a crime. In Moscow, it’s all about the Russian Mafia and if you’d ever gone you’d know that..but I’m certain you’ve only read in books or on some ignorant morons blog about what THEY say happens there. In Beijing they don’t tell you to keep things on you of value for a reason..and not to carry a purse and not to comment about controversial matters in your own hotel room… I witnessed a street brawl while in Beijing and I witnessed the police response..they directed traffic to continue while the folks on the corner used chairs, rocks, and their fists to beat each other to a bloody pulp..but that’s common in the US right? I mean, police always show up to a fight in the US to direct the traffic rather than stop the fight

And everyone enjoys free health care..ha ha ha ha ha that must explain why they euthanize boys and girls born with cleft lips or club feet? or they dump them in orphanages where they are so ‘well’ cared for that they are stacked on hard, cold metal tables in blankets and left laying there all day until feeding time. Again witnessed on multiple occasions with my own two eyes..Last, everyone has a job..really? Have you turned on your TV? Did you watch what happened in China for the Olympics? Do you have friends who live there and have suffered under the governments oppressive rule? If not, then you are a jerk! I’ve lived there, I have friends there, and your comments are a mockery of the very things that even President BILL CLINTON pointed out on his trip to China. What a farce..I’m offended by your ignorance. So when you have gone and LIVED in two or three of your beloved communist countries..and I truly INSIST that you go and live there…stop speaking about matters in which you have no real world knowledge. Finally, if all you have to support your position is “I can give you links about that” just be quiet and let the people with actual first hand knowledge debate!

You use WIKIPEDIA as a source you actually sited? IDIOT..even a Frenchmen would agree you are to stupid to debate

Troll

…University is NOT available to every individual, only a few who test well enough or come from families with influential backgrounds. Please explain to my good friend Lukas Grasnov why he hasn’t been granted this FREE university of which you speak..or my female Russian friends here now(for reasons I can’t explain..I’m unable to say where “here” is) that are forced to work in bars as “entertainers” because their life is still better here than in Russia.

World Traveler you are spot on, that is why no one else has even wasted the effort to respond this uneducated fool who obviously has an axe to grind with the US. Remember, he is French and by default he is like a subserivent dog, ready to roll over on his back and show his soft underbelly at the slightest hint of threat.

All you have to do in order to realize the decline in America is read this blog and others like it. It is not the military that is in decline, it is the American public led and fueled by a bunch of self preserving politicians whos only real goal is to get re elected while lining thier pockets. Technology does not win wars, dedicated warriors do. America was at the top of the technology game during Korea and Nam but it was useless against people willing to die and not give up. The Russians faced the same delima in Afgahnistn and now we are repeating it. The only difference is that most Russians didnt really want to be there, didnt believe in what they were doing, didnt trust thier government, so they really didnt care what happened as long as they didnt get killed over there. Unfortunately that is where we are heading as our troops who are the finest in the world are growing more and more discontent with the government they are serving. They are discontent with being given an objective and then having thier hands tied behind thier backs. They are discontent because they are realizing that they are fighting for a government that is sending more and more skilled labor jobs to other countries leaving them to worry what they will do when they do leave the service. And all the while you have everyone back home going at each other about which political party is best, it is all BS. And I am so sick and tired of hearing all of this American racism crapp. A lot of people need to go back and study the bible and history, but when you study history use the archives and not current history books. Slavery has been around since the beginning of time, not all slaves came from Africa either, it still exist today in other forms, sweat shops, endentured servants, prostitution, illegal immigrants who work cheap but have to pay a portion of it to thier coyotes who bring them in to do the work, the taliban who enfirce thier beliefs upon others and kill those who wont comply or grow thier poppy, drug cartels who do the same. But only here in America do we hear the term racist constantly thrown around. Grow up people, this is the kind of stuff that is tearing down America. Americans have gotten too soft and greedy and that will be our demise within, but you will always have those in uniform that will be willing to step foward and do what needs to be done to defend you. So you should all buckup and do them honor and show them support as a unified American society. You that served in NAM or are old enoung to remember it know how important this is in order to keep the troops assured they ahve a reason for being there. STOP THE B.S. MUD SLINGING, OUR GUYS READ THIS SITE AS WELL AND DONT NEED TO SEE THIS.

well, we did ship most of our manufacturing base to china..the rich got richer and the mid-class paid the price..thank ya kindly repuke scum…

OK — I went back and read even more of whats going on here. I’m not going to point out names or any of that B.S., if you read this you know who you are. PATRIOTISM is not reserved solely for those who earned a purple heart. That is B.S., I served in every dirty little conflict that has occured from 1980 to 2004, not just the televised ones. Most of them still are classified, I got shot or injured more than once and never recieved a purple heart because what I did never really happened. I was told more than once your country needs you to do this but if you get caught we will deny any knowledge of you. Are you really going to tell me and my brothers in arms that we are not patriots because we didnt get a medal, That is total B.S.!!! A medal does not make you a legal patriot, especialy when you consider how many purple hearts have been given out for dropping something heavy on thier foot, or taking a round in the six while hiding in a fox hole or running away. I have nothing but respect for those who were actual injured fighting in combat but a lot of awards are given out to personnel who never even pointed thier weapon at anything other than paper. I have over six rows of candy ( still no purple heart)and never wore them unless specificly required. Medals and ribbons are not what makes me a patriot, its the heart in my chest pumping red white and blue through my body. And that is the same for any and every American out there putting up yellow ribbons — making care packages — sending cards and letters to show thier support — lending a hand to thier neighbors in time of need. That is a patriot in my book as I’m sure many others feel as well, You nor the government have no right to state otherwise or have the right to consider only those with a purple heart a patriot.

I APPOLIGIZE TO MANY OF YOU OUT THERE. I dont mean to go off like that but it really gets me when people get off track of the subject and go into rants about political parties (they are all crooked in one way or another), or start screaming racism if you disagree with them or thier canidate. I realize right now I just as guilty but someone had to step in and try to stop this and get it back on track.
Fact of the matter is we are in a decline globaly, but it is not the military. These guys will fight to the end for you and that is our true power. you cannot defeate people who will not lay down and give up, the harder you push us the more fight your gonna get. That is something our government needs to remember and stop thier pushing and demoralizing of us to the world.I dont care how the rest of the world sees me as long as they realize if they threaten me or my country that they will get a mudhole stomping. As long as Americans (I not the only one either) Have that attitude we have nothing to fear from abroad. Technoligy can always be overcomed. What we have to fear is what is happening right here at home that is tearing away at our actual soul. It is time to reunite and stand together.

BEWARE OF “CHINA” THEY ARE THE SLEEPING DRAGON.….WE MIGHT BE THE “GIANT NOW,BUT THE GIANT WAS KNOCK DOWN IN THE FAIRY TALE REMEMBER.…OUR FORMER PRESIDENT “CLINTON” GAVE CHINA THE TECHNICAL KNOWLEDGE OF MISSLE GUIDANCE SYSTEM,YOU HAVE TO NO THIS,BECAUSE THEY TOOK OUT A SATELLITE AND HIT IT IN ITS “EYE”.…..THEY HAVE BEEN MAPPING AND TRACKING ALL OUR SUBS IN THERE AREA,AND PLACING TRACKING DEVICE IN THE WATER SO WHEN A SUB WILL PAST THEY WILL NO WHO AND WHAT IT IS.….THEY HAVE MORE CONVENTIONAL SUBS WITH A BETTER PROPELLER SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE A HARD TIME TRACKING THEM.……THEY ARE NOW BUILDING AIRCRAFT CARRIERS.….BUT ALL THIS IS THERE BIG PLAN THEY HAVE AND WE ARE NOW GOING TO SLEEP.….LOOK AT ALL THE PLACES THEY ARE IN,COUNTIES,AND THINGS THAT THEY HAVE,LIKE OIL,FOOD,METALS,GOLD AND WHAT ARE WE DOING ABOUT THIS “NOTHING” WE ARE SLEEPING.…..WHEN THIS ONCE GREAT COUNTRY WAKES UP IT WILL BE TO LATE,THEN WHAT ?????

Oh you Gringos, I hope your days of “taking care” of the world will end soon, in other words, I hope the Imperialism of the US will end soon.

No wonder why the world hates you, no wonder why there are people that will die to kill you. Simply because in order for you to have such a great life, the “american dream”, other countries had to suffer.

I really hope you decay, and pay back to the rest of the world what you owe them.

For the past 15 years or so you “neo-liberals” have been obsessed with cutting back the size of our military, cutting back research, development, and procurement, and forcing politically correct nonsense down the military’s throat with no benefit whatsoever.

I am the daughter of Army Soldier, wife to an Army Soldier, and Air Force Vet. I completely agree with this posters statement. I have watched the changes since the Korean conflict which my father served in, through nam and now present day. Willian you’ve definitely hit the nail on the head with this statement.

I completely agree. At first some of what he said may have had merit, but he has fallen so far down with his attacks of folks with other views that one cannot take anything he states seriously. Thanks for posting. My E-6 husband has four tours of combat under his belt and thank the gods he’s had no injuries. But I guarantee he can talk circles around Byron’s arguments. And all with out insults.

Also if I may add to Williams defense, he’s not sitting in a cubicle somewhere pulling these things out of his arse. The defense company he works for and many others actually bring in SOLDIERS and military members who have had boots on the grounds to discuss their needs. That is FACT, not neocon blubberings. So your attacks on William are really making you look worse and worse.

Just because someone in a debate has a different opinion doesn’t make them wrong. Get over yourself.

Hey Me & myself, I don’t know who you are — if youre serious or think your funny. “SHUT YOUR PIE HOLE” your not funny. And your obviously not educated. The U.S. is not and hasn’t been part of an empire since we kicked out the Brittish. We have never taken from anyone and more over we have given more than any other country. Now if your of Mexican bloodline and speaking of TEXAS, the U.S. had nothing to do with that, TEXAS kikced the Mexican empire out of the territory all on thier own with no help from the U.S., we bought the rest from your bankrupt government. So you tell me who caused you to suffer so I could live like I do. I live like I do because I work hard, never take or ask for hand outs, and dont expect others to take care of me. You American hating A holes need to learn how to be a man. Unlike all the cowards that run off and become burdens on other societies Americans (as the AMERICAN & TEXAS revolutions prove) will take matters into thier own hands when pushed into a corner, even if it’s against thier own ruling governments. The reason you most likely suffer is because you are lazy and spineless.
NOW IF THIS WAS JUST A JOKE ON YOUR PART THAT WASN’T FUNNY, I APPOLIGIZE FOR COMING DOWN ON YOU, BUT IF YOU WERE SERIOUS THEN YOU CAN KISS MY 6.

Completely agree.

BRAVO, well said.

Again well said, you and my husband would get along grandly. Thank you for your voice of reason.

I definitely second that Boomer.

Thank you Laura, nice to see everyone doesnt feel I’m a hard A** baby killer the way a certain someone accused me of once. I’m with you on your post and Copenhagan is OK to dip when your in the field (keeps you awake and curbs your appetie). But it makes lousy treaties. Ok now we are into conspiracy treaty and new world order stuff, but that is exactly what this is leading into. We are going to allow the rest of the world to fine us for enviromental issues, trade, and gun control. I dont think the current political machine realizes we are not going to bow down and except it based on thier signature. They ignore the millions of 912’s out there protesting (repubs & dems alike)down play the numbers there but build up on the numbers of people who support thier goals. They claim Bush started all this bailout B.S., well OK he did bail out AIG what they refuse to remind anyone is why “BECAUSE AIG WAS GOING TO DO IT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE MONTH LEAVING BILLIONS OF AMERICANS WITHOUT COVERAGE AND HAVING TO STRUGGLE TO COME UP WITH DOWN PAYMENT MONEY FOR NEW INSURANCE, AND A NEW HEALTH INSURANCE POLICY WOULD NOT COVER EXISTING CONDITIONS LEAVING AMERICANS DEVISTATED” it had nothing to do with the stock market or investors. You cannot say that about the money OBAMA has paid out. If it was about the people then how come he didn’t bail out all the people scammed by Bernie Madoff? But people eat this up like it’s candy. I’m sorry to say it but a lot of Americans are so into reality t.v. that they believe anything they see on it as the gosple. No one on either side came up with the needed reform for health care. How come they didn’t change the laws so you cant sue someone every time you turn around, the cost of malpractice insurance is what drives up healthcare cost, why dont they put a cap on how much you can be charged for during treatment because I feel $15.00 for a pack of kleenex and $300.00 for asprin is a little rediculous. Dentist are just as bad. And the insurance companies are worse, I have a policy that covers 50% of certain things, my wife also has a policy that covers 50% so you would think it would not cost me a dime to have the procedure done, but NO it is illegal for me not to make a copayment but legal for the Dr to charge both insurance companies 50% so he gets a 50% profit. But no thats not the way they see fit to fix things, thats not really the problem. ALSO you here them constantly talking about us buying stuff we cant afford, now how is that our fault I ask? how come they can set a minimum wage but cant set a limmit on the cost of living within that wage. because they dont want to, they profit from thier investments.
people should really start taking a better look at things, we could easily get out of this mess within a few years with common sense.
I’d best stop — you could really get me going on this subject.

Boomer, please do “get going” on this. It’s time the sheeples woke up and saw the light.

It was Bush/Cheney who started the decline. why can’t you admit that? their ignorance, greed and arrogance started it all. YOu probably still can’t admit there were not WMD’s can you? Denial is not just a river in Egypt. The Christian Crazies started this back in the 80’s and now the Repubil-can’ts dump the huge mess onto Obama’s lap. I for one am proud to be a soft-socialist soft capitalist like the rest of our closests allies and civilized societies..and i work w/ the US military here in Germany. Most american GI’s are not in the pocket of the right wing as Fox News would love u all to believe…they get screwed over by republicans all the time n they finally have caught on. Only the upper brass remain loyal to the Republicants amongst some dim witted low level hicks. I love being a Liberal it means FREEDOM. notice too how republican’ts ebrace the color “Red” ironic isn’t it. Yet they keep screaming about socialism…it’s called Projection in psychology…Shakespeare put it this way..‘the lady doth protest to much” (Macbeth) but that’s probably too intellectual for a conserative like you…afterall i AM an “elitist”. LMAO.

I think you are on to something. The fact that we import more than we export is a problem that we seem to think little about. China produces 85% of all toys..that’s just one industry they dominate. I actually assigned a task to a senior class of students to find three items made in the US that were NOT food stuffs. OF the 97 seniors assigned the task, only 6 were able to accomplish the goal. The remaining 91 found at least one and another 25 of those found two. I did not grade them on a pass fail if they found three or not..I graded them on the number of locations they attempted to shop and look for the items. Between the 97 students they shopped in 213 DIFFERENT stores on their quest. Some repeated stores like Target, Walmart, etc. but they also went to 213 different stores such as local business and mom and pop type locations. On a side note: Do you think the unions are hurting capitalism now or that they are still beneficial?

Byron,
I am an educator and I can assure you we have a problem in our schools. It is suspected many of the Chinese were spies, thus they are no longer allowed in the same number as before. However, the country who steals the most from us is actually none other than Israel. Now I know that may anger a few fellow conservatives, but it is the truth. My sister in law is Israeli and I won’t bother to explain all that I know, let’s just say…they are good at patting us on the back with one hand while the other steals the wallet from our pocket. But I am just a well traveled US citizen who has lived and taught in more than a few “communist” and other foreign nations. The real proof that our education is in decline is in the international testing. There’s a story in the Economist this week that speaks to the US being left behind by many other nations in all subjects and even in the number of students who gradutate high school. South Korea has now surpassed our youngest students in grad. rates. Sad

Decline? We are nowhere near decline, I think somebody is trying the scare tactic again. When are these people gonna learn that we don’t scare easily. We got more nukes than anybody else on the planet, and we the only country that has ever used one, where is the decline?

Are you seriously stating that the number of nuclear weapons determines the entire strength of our Nation? What about economics, education etc. Would that not also be a measure of our strength as a nation?

You need to read a lot more and from varied sources. Not just conservative sources but liberal as well. Once you have read about 100 to 200 varied peer-reviewed sources on the topic of the US decline in the world or US Hegemony. Then come back and tell us again that the number of nukes determines who is stronger. And if that is still your position…then perhaps you should take note that President Obama wants to get rid of ALL nukes and is willing to start with our own as a show of good faith. How does that fit in with your world dominance by number of nuclear weapons theory?

PS
barry with his nobel prize before a Hamlet-like bust of jimmy carter is perfect!: it’s too easy to get a college degree and done the robes in America-in Europe and Asia, they really work for it.
Fall of Rome-we’re too busy with our “loaves of bread” at the gladiator arena to stop and figure out how a bunch of primitive towel heads beat all our high tech, lap-top TCQ BS, Army social engineering, environmental footprint, safety objective, training lanes, chekc the box bullsh*t.
A rifle and a radio used to do it.
We outspent ourselves on stuff that didn’t work, and barry has announced that we’ll pull out in 2001-imagine how that make the Taliban feel-or US tropps-or European commitmnet–
No statescraft, means bungled alliances, and we don’t have the technical edge or military conscription draft manpower to even the score.
Our decline is more serious than Asian-Middle Easstern gains.

You are correct when you say that our decline will come from within. The biggest problems facing our citizens is lack of knowledge/education and the refusal to cooperate with one another. So many ignorant comments have been posted by folks who know how to glean a few tidbits (I refuse to call them facts esp. if they come from Wiki) from the Internet and twist them to make whatever convoluted argument they can. All this confirms is that they know how to type an inquiry into an Internet search engine on a computer. Or, they use opinionated drivel and tout that non-authoritative, unsubtantiated drivel as fact. I, too, offer my own opinion, but based on my own diverse reading and education (msg cont’d):

Obviously he was not talking about you Klgold. I believe he is talking about those who have never done anything. You sir are to be commended highly for your service and its a damn shame you didn’t receive more for that service. Its time we seperated those who take take take and give nothing and transfer that aid to those like yourself.
Thank you for your service.

If we continue to divide as a society and refuse to invest in ourselves, each other, and our future generations so that we may provide (both technologically and economically) for other nations to either develop the means to take by force or to purchase that which was once controlled, owned, or developed by Americans (incl. our American soil)… If we continue to produce a society of citizens who graduate with a third grade education… If we continue to support a government that says its sole reason for existance is to provide hand-outs to its citizens to keep them dependant and controllable… If we allow our politicians to make decisions for us without any accountability or input… and, If we believe that we as a nation are “too strong to fail” and that no other country is a threat to us either economically, militarily, intellectually, etc., then we WILL FAIL.

Wake up, people. Strength is in numbers. Power comes from knowledge. And, all great nations in the past began rotting from within before they fell. Ancient history & our own history has proven this time and again. If we continue to kill each other just to grab a few shiny baubles, or to silence those with whom we do not agree, or to destroy those who we do not look or think “like”; if we continue to sit on our laurels and do nothing to evolve into greater human beings, whether it’s looking to the stars for the purpose of gazing at them in wonder or with thoughts of exploration and colonization, or foraging into our ocean depths for new discoveries, or striving to understand the smallest molecule of life; if we continue to turn a blind eye to corruption and greed within our government and allow our elected officials to silence us because they think we are either to stupid to understand or decide what’s best for us; and, if we refuse to become involved and invested in our nation and its future by changing our mindset and the way we do business, then perhaps we should start learning Chinese (or Arabic or other European coalition languages).

Why? Because these other nations already know these things and have already begun to place them into practice. So as they begin their bright meteoric rise for global dominancy and economic/intellectual bounty while we fight and squabble amongst and against ourselves, we Americans, as a once diverse, strong and promising nation of many peoples, begin our awful, hellish descent into third world status and/or economic/political takeover. When that happens, say goodbye to the U.S. Constitution and all the freedoms I helped fight for that others helped achieve or sacrificed not only their health for, but their very lives.

Please be careful with your generalizations — I collect a military disability check and live in a double-wide, which I own outright from working (no need to bail me out of a mortgage!). I have never held out my hand for charity, nor will I. I have a Bachelor’s Degree in Education, have retired from service in the U.S. Army (during which I got ill from the effects of Chernobyl while stationed in Berlin), and worked as a defense contractor until my illness would no longer allow me to do so. I pay my taxes religiously and have NEVER received welfare, food stamps, etc. Just because I live humbly in my double-wide and meagrely on a disability check does not make me one of the masses with their hands out saying “give me — you owe me even though I did NOTHING to earn it.” I’ve sacrificed for my country and earned everything that I have or receive. In other words, I’m not the problem because I receive a check from the government and happen to live in a mobile home. That was not my ambition EVER, just an unfortunate mishap from serving my country and genetics. (Message cont’d)

also I might add that there are many receiving disability that are not and have never been disabled. I had a neighbor on welfare and disability because she claimed depression. Well now judging from the drug traffic coming in and out of the house all night long I’m wondering why we support these folks. She was 23 and seem to be very active. She’s never worked a day in her life. So tell me what is wrong with that picture.

We have shrinks out there that will give you a diagnosis of whatever you want these days, depression, whatever. They give you pills and then you can file for disability.

Are you saying that individuals who fought and were not injured in battle are not Patriots? My good friend once told me he wasn’t that proud of his three purple hearts, but he was of the bronze star. He said the purple hearts were more like sharp shooter medals for the enemy! He was a mustang in Vietnam, I’m sure you know what that means, any way, now I have a close friend who has been to Iraq and Afghan more times than I can count. He just received the Bronze Star for his actions and though he came close to death on three occassions he was not hit and did not “earn” the Purple Heart. However, I’d put his Bronze Star against John Kerry’s three sharp shooter enemy metals in a Patriotic contest anyday. And, I don’t think you can claim any pats on the back for medals you were given and then in protest THREW AWAY saying they were not of any value. Can’t have it both ways, either you are a patriot who fought for your country or an anti-war draftee who couldn’t duck or run fast enough to avoid being shot!

Byron,
Are you saying that anyone who disagrees with your position is a racists? Or that if you are critical of President Obama or liberals you are also a racists? In any educated and intelligent debate i.e discussion when one side resorts to the tactic of name calling it is generally because they find their own position indefensible. If you have serious academia to support your views then use those facts and not the arrogant and ignorant labeling that actually sounds like reverse racism itself. A sensible and logical debate should never swirl into a debasement of another person or people. Once you have come to the point in which that is your only defense, it is better to retreat with dignity and honor than to fight with the use of name calling and emotional rhetoric.

I have to wonder what his position would be if our current President was white? What arguement would he throw at us then.

And look at our system today. We have generations of welfare recepients. GENERATIONS of people who live off the fat of the land and do nothing. These are the ones driving up healthcare costs as well. Now the democrats throw Billions of dollars to Corperate america to bail them out. What’s that all about? In the meantime we have millions losing jobs and homes. Our infrastructure is crumbling before our very eyes. Our education system is a joke. And now they throw this laughable healthcare bill at us. Please.

We have troops standing on the front lines without the equipment they need, the support etc. Whats that about?

And what about the new Copenhagan Treaty? hummm Byron, your’re losing ground here fast.

Yes, I actually wrote the moron a lenthy retort to his arrogant and ignorant rant above..but when I got to his Wikipedi site…I just felt it was like arguing with a mentally challenged person and thought better of my time. I’ve lived in and visited a few communist countries in my life time and they are not the fun loving nations he describes. In Russia and China the police themselves are criminals. Russian mafia dominates the control and in China the police don’t really respond to any incidents unless it is deemed a threat to national security. I watched a street brawl go on for 45 minutes with people bashing each others heads with rocks, chairs, and their fist while the police directed traffic not to block the intersection. Never even attempted to break up the fight. I have several friends who live where I do know..overseas..they are from Russia and are stuck in “entertainer” jobs because it is better than the life they had in Russia. And a friend named Lukas Grasnov would love to have this FREE university that idiot speaks of..no such animal exist unless you test very high or come from influential families. But I digress…freefallingbomb is clearly an uneducated buffoon.

This article is half right, half “warm fuzzy” propaganda.
Formerly “backward” coutnries are catching up to us, while we’re catching up to where they were!
That’s why China owns our treasury.
It’s probably true that maintaining “world superiority” isn’t worth it-way too costly-and that we’re entering an age of alliances-not different from teh Cold War, but much more intricate, and requiring a State Department that we don’t have and never did.
“Wars of Choice” is Bullsh*t-9/11, Dude!
And when we start backing out of Afgahnistan in 2011, 9/11 will be monthly.
Which gets backt to “intellectual” superiority-we are no smarter than anyone else. “Brains”, as Einstein put it, is“1% inspriation and 99% perspiration”-but we don’t want to work-we want to outsource the cruel labor and just “manage” it for profit from our Microsoft laptops.

I don’t know what Joan Johnson Freese thought she was trying to accomplish with this posting. The CRS analyst’s comment was about power projections, but the ability to project power is based on one’s capabilities, not on the threat. Decryption — Rummie had it right when he shook up the requirements system and out came JCIDS. Capabilities are things you can measure — you can transport such an such a force with so much equipment over such and such a distance over a certain amount of time — and that force must be sustainable and capable of fighting when it gets to where it is going. The rest is about gitting thar fustest with the mostest…something the attrition warfare trogs and irregular warfare crowd does not understand or concede. That’s why these people don’t get it at all. They don’t understand that maneuver warfare — yes it lives — begins with strategic mobility. Period. Now — as far as relative power is concerned, it should not be terribly hard to count and work out force ratios to determine what your potential strength is relative to others.

The fact that the US can project power in depth and other nations cannot is a simple reality. In the days when Gorskhov was building a blue water navy to challenge the US — that was a real challenge. Playing rope a dope along the littoral and extending one’s reach with guided missiles suggests strategic defense — but you do have to worry about time and space considerations from the US side of the equation. So what ? Well, that’s so what — if you wanna stay engaged outside the Western hemisphere, you have to do what it takes to project force quickly enough and in sufficient mass to accomplish your operational objectives — and you don’t always get to chose the time or the place. Thats — so — what.

Sorry to say buddy
You must be on crack

I third that Boomer!

All Armies are a reflection of their poltical, economic and social culture.
Ours, the USA, is totally “gadget” and “business” orinetated
It’s good thing: “how can we do it better”, unless people are shooting at you.
War is ancient.
And it’s changed very little since the Battle of Cannae, which gave the German Wehrmacht it’s superiority over Europe and Russia, despite it’s limitations material and manpower.
We don’t have a military culture, or a General Staff, auf die Wehrmacht.
And it really shows, when we have to shift gears, from conventional to counter-guerilla warfare:: that’s amjor change that most armies can’t do, much less ours.

Osama beat beat, us, folks.
It was political, yeah, but it was also military: we never had the focus upon the task at hand: the Pentagon was too busy playing politics for Congressional appropriations and expensive transformer toys to appreciated the capabilities of the enemy at hand, who knew our weaknesses better than our Generals did.
End of story.
Next time we go to the Middle East, it will be with conscritpion and total war, something the Taliban has yet to provoke or experience.

This is all a wait and see game. No one can really predict the final outcome. The biggest thing in our favor is that when we unite against an identified threat, we are a very imposing force based mainly on our determination. technology is good for some things, but the individual is the deadliest weapon there is, the better he is trained to operate as an individual the deadlier he is, and he will find a way to defeat any technology deterent in his way. So i dont worry about falling behind on technology, I never counted on it to start with when I was deployed. The only thing that will cause the U.S. to fall is this continuing riff between the American people. It never stops amazing me how many times I have watched people fight hand in hand, sharing canteens and tending to wounds, with no concern of race — religion — or politics, but soon after they get home all of this comes back to the surface. We pull together in battle and fight each other in peace. Tell me something is not wrong in our society and in danger of tearing us apart.

Bill R. I’m not totally sure of what you are saying. Some makes sense but in other places you lost me. The U.S. will always be able to get the troops where they need to be. The problem these days is doing it quickly enough to be effective and without showing your hand weeks in advance. SPECOPS units can be in route within hours, foward deployed MARINE expeditionary units within a couple of days and be fully self sufficient. And then the bulk of the military shortly thereafter. This could be greatly improved upon if the brass would listen to the grunts that do the fighting. In WWII the ARMY trained in amphibious warfare and it worked, why did they stop and leave it the sole responsibility of the MARINES? We have the ship capability to support more expiditionary forces using ARMY personnel, that way we could respond with a larger force within days rather than weeks. Give them better gear and weapons, we have been telling them for years that we want our 7.62mm and 45’s back, it does no good to be able to carry twice as many rounds when it takes four times as many to kill your enemy and you have to get closer to do it. The 151 jeep once the new engines and roll bars were installed were far better than humvees in every way, we want them back, we dont need video cameras on our weapons and helmets so you can see whats going on from the rear — if you want to experiance the fight then get out here with us, video cameras and battery packs are heavy. The OSPREY would make a very nice foward/ field deployable SPECTRE gun ship for support of our guys,if it can tote a couple of vehicles then it can tote a lot of artillery, We want LAW rockets back in droves because they are much easier to tote around and lighter, How come we dont have container ships deployed as part of these expiditionary forces, those containers could easily be converted to field kitchens, clinics, commo sheds, clinics, barracks, power units, etc. that could be transported in support of the grunts, as they move foward the base moves foward so that the commo line does not stretch (and we would no need contractors to come in and overcharge us to build these things that cant leave with us.). These are just a few of the things we have been asking for over and over, if you think about it it makes sense huh? and would be more cost effective? but the brass doesnt like easy ideals especialy from us uneducated enlisted types that they cowl behind when the shooting starts. I’m not saying all officers wear panties, I have met some good ones, just not many. So you see we can rapidly foward deploy more effeciently and at less cost but the politicians will never allow it because it doesnt create enough revenue in technology for the world market. (I say get rid of the 600 senators and let the Govs. of the 50 states make these decisions and lawsas part of state sovriegnty, but that makes too much sense also)

The lesson from the Middle East is that a dedicated bunch can do a lot of damage with AKs, RPG 7s, IEDs and a few motorbikes and pickup trucks, and do it cheap, which is essential to wearing us down. Our screw up, was to rely on lots of expensive, high tech “force multipliers” that don’t destroy anywhere near what they cost to operate, much less buy: our own spend thrift wore us out all the sooner. It tells me, that the brass have lost the art of war: they never understood the nature of this war, much less, how capable the enemy really was. The real pathetic thing is that some people have waged successful counter-guerilla wars. However, for 8 years, it’s been “Let’s try this and see what happens”, and then change our minds: like some lab experiment. You hve to be determined to win, not guessing at it.

What many “declinists” fear is that they won’t “go to work everyday, and be productive„„” We outsourced most of that, and are now professional consumers. Another “Fog of War”, is the deliberate Chinese strategy to loan us money to buy their junk and raise hell every time we try to stop it, thru customs inspections or import duties. This is an extension of Chinese politics “by other means.”

Maintaining a DoD that can beat everybdoy at once has gotten too expensive. When bullets costs 5 cents, shootng ten people costs 50 cents. But when bullets cost 50 cents, shooting ten people costs $5. However, maintaing our own system of alliances has not been our forte. “Politics is the art of the possible”, not Leagues of Nationas and UNs. We spend as much to rebuild our enemies as it cost us to defeatthem, and in IRaq’Afgahnistan, we even won yet. Global diplomacy is hard ball, but our State Dept. is as spend thrift as our military: it’s easier to throw money at people than out smart them, which is why every country now takes it as an insult when when we cut their hand out. Before alliances work for us, so does our State Dept. A US alliance ought o be worth working for, not getting paid for.

Gordon, sounds like you and I are knda on the same wave link. You can never defeat a guerila force because the are no identifying battle lines, you never know who they are, no clear chain of command to take out and if you do someone else has stepped into his shoes before you get back to base and write your report. They dont like you and never will period, to them its principal and not about money. There are only two options to this type of warfare and neither are 100%. 1). Clandestine ops to recon, locate, and kill as many as you can each time. this is done without a strong military precence in the area that drives them into hiding, but this is a long drawn out process. 2). Go in shoot and bomb the heck outta them with no concern for collateral damage, someone from your country attacked mine so now we are comming for retribution, start a paralel sweep from two sides with the troops coming in behind air raids. Once you reach a certain point turn around and come home, no band aids, candy, food, or money. mess with the bull your gonna get stuck period, this will turn thier own population against them for fear of us coming back. No other Nation gives aid to countries they whoop, just us. All of our politicians need to be fired, we dont need a state department, we are the most self sufficient country in the world and need to get back to that dicipline and way of thinking, the he** with world trade stocks, we need to put our stocks back in AMERICA first and foremost and we need to become neutral while maintaining a strong military. We need to utilize our military as they were originaly established for and that is to protect our homeland and borders as we have for the rest of the world for decades now at cost to the tax payers. We need to bring them home to our borders and stop the flood of illegals, drugs and slavers that are stealing our children and selling them into prostitution in other countries while bringing in sex slaves from mexico, and other countries to the US. wiping out this problem would save billions every year in tax payer money.

Decline, Joan Johnson Freese, is always relative-that’s what’s always so bad about it.
All wars are a matter of choice, you can always just surrender after the first bullet.
The defense budget is always a matter of choice, and right now, I am not going to pay $100 for a bumper sticker: the Pentagon does that.
Decline is always a choice, if you’d rather not work.
We’d all like to be prodcutive, but corporate and gov’t leadership have sold our jobs overseas.
Regarding building a more effective military, are we talking about more Power Points?
Or more F-33&1/3rds, MRAPS, Ospreys, and other things that cost a lot and don’t do much?
We’ve had 40 years to figure out Viet Nam and obviously didn’t do it.

Yeah, BOOMER, I think that we are on the same page! Fire and Manuevre is indecriminate, but it works, if you acept the indescriminate aspect of it. Counter-Guerilla “guerillas” also works, it’s a lot cheaper, more descriminate and more likely to “win the peace” as well as the war, since you haven’t got everybody pissed and you’ve killed all the enemy, and in plain sight, too (great for “winning hearts and minds”), but most conventional armies never make the transition. It’s a war of brains, and we seriously underestimated enemy capability in the terrain and terms of the war. I also agree, that armies can only do so much: they aren’t “peace keepers”, “nation builders”, or any of that-the just go whack things. It’s an awkward instrument, at best, and best left operating as it does best: as a deterrant. Mess with us, and we’ll whack you, and leave you with the mess. Do it again, so wil we. Easy! We don’t need Patreous’ 3 inch manual on coutner guerilla warfare. You can some it up in a couple paragraphs-and that’s a lot easier in the field.

Two things America has done, start a civil war cause it was the only war that America won, next would be slavery, let’s face it. Democracy, Capitalism is finished. Companies fire employees that stopped perpetrators from stealing, and reducing shrink, while the management was stealing on the side, to compensate for the weak dollar. News to you just because a comapny products are made in China, and the is part of China, does not necessarly make it a good idea to steal from them, cause we Americans are paying for it, notice China does not have a patent law, it allows them to dominate in production. While it’s pennies in China, it’s a significant value of money in the United States. But that’s all about to change right now.

Two things America has done, start a civil war cause it was the only war that America won, next would be slavery, let’s face it. Democracy, Capitalism is finished. Companies fire employees that stopped perpetrators from stealing, and reducing shrink, while the management was stealing on the side, to compensate for the weak dollar. News to you just because a company products are made in China, and is part of China, does not necessarly make it a good idea to steal from them, cause we Americans are paying for it, notice China does not have a patent law, it allows them to dominate in production. While it’s pennies in China, it’s a significant value of money in the United States. But that’s all about to change right now.

People forget that BRAC 1995 destroyed our ammunition production capability. We are not modernizing our Nukes, and China has Nuke armed subs and so do the Russians. They are modernized. We gave China technology to make their nuke missiles more accurate. We do not have the shapist pins in the sewing kit it seems.

No Russian ICMBs? Man you REALLY lost your cred with me! I look at the new ones coming out everytime an article on Defense Update comes out. Not only that, but they are building anti-starwars features into the warheads.

Not that it will work, but that is not the point.

Spelling correction ICBMs — I swear my fingers are getting fatter!

Exactly, you hit the nail on the head. If we don’t get a handle on the brain drain the PRC is exercising, all the defense spending in the world won’t amount to a hill of beans. How are we going to keep prepared with a totally hobbled economy? I wouldn’t doubt if some of the companies China buys out for foreign debts, don’t end up junked out, split up and sold down the river piecemeal so they can further their corporate dominance.

You can’t blame them for trying to get away with it; it is just that it is stupid to stand idly by and let it happen!

You will never get me to NOT believe #6 didn’t happen; they have been trying to attack my network for two years and place .exe files inside my LAN. I’ve see the SCADA film demo that can in fact destroy a standby generator over a supposedly secured network.

I don’t have to “know” that they did this as a fact. I just KNOW they did it. Get it! Call me unreasonable, but if a skunk stinks I don’t have to rub my nose it to find out; if a animal looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, I’m willing to believe it is a duck — no matter WHAT you say!

IT security people make their living being ultra paranoid, we have big egos and don’t care if people call us crazy; but damn you if you try to punch through our networks! We will stop at nothing short of criminal illegal means to stop this!

Of course, it is the biggest, best scam even since the Roman Empire. Except instead of the rich paying for bread and circuses, WE pay for votes with OUR own money. The best scam in history! If left to continue, we will not see the Constitution’s 300th birthday.

That would be fine if it weren’t for history, if Hitler had been marginalized earlier, WWII may never have happened. Look at the now 40+ years of relative peace we have enjoyed, look at the up and coming 3rd soon to be 1st and 2nd world? And if we did let every little tin horn dictatorship play with nuclear weapons, and they abused them. Oh God! You would NEVER hear the end of whiners like Byron saying, “WHY DIDN’T WE DO SOMETHING!? WAAA!”

It is always the nay sayers that come up complaining when things don’t go their way, even though we’ve been going their way more and more.

Besides, so far no one is admitting that force is required yet in this new administration of appeasement and diplomacy. We shall see. We shall SEE!

I have plenty of proposals for domestic tranquility, but that wasn’t the topic. I tired of being off topic, so I should shut up!

We sent the factories overseas because our unions made the BIG mistake of thinking automation was going to steal their jobs. Now we see who has the cushy jobs. They may not have the living standards we do, but they aren’t busting their butts when robots do the dirty work either!

As with India, I think China’s living standards will catch up even among the poorest, as long as they continue to play capitalist instead of the last failed concept. Speaking of which, as soon as the dollar drops enough, the factories will come back. It is already getting cheaper to built custom electronic circuits in this country, and I see a rebound coming from that sector first.

I totally agree, too bad I couldn’t join this thread when it came out.

I don’t think we are so much in decline as the rest of the world is finally playing catchup! However if our congress doesn’t get a handle on the budget we will start sliding downhill precipitously. If we keep thinking smarter like our Armed Forces leaders, and do things cheaper, faster, and better; I think we can balance out our forces very well, and still have a defense industrial base for emergencies, and still be a considerable force to be reckoned with.

Look at Israel. No matter what your opinion of her is; nobody really wants to mess with her either! We got that is spades for years to come. However thinking smarter, and more strategically, will be even more valuable.

No YOU owe US. We are tired of policing the world. If you want us to stop fine, but then every tin horn in the neighborhood will come gunning for YOU! And your leaders will be powerless to stop it!

We would LOVE to quit this job, but why give up 40 + years of relatively peaceful existence? Look how much better things have become in supposedly 3rd world countries like China and India! They are no way 3rd world NOW! Look how much better trade has helped bring countries like Brazil out of the jungle and into the space age! NAA! I don’t buy your pessimism! Things may not be perfect in mine or your country, but that means rolling up our sleeves and getting to work to make it better for everybody!

True! The bailout happened good or not because history point out that doing nothing ended in a ten year depression of the likes the WHOLE WORLD hadn’t seen before. Let us not fool ourselves, it is a world economy, and what happens to one country can affect all the others as well.

All the countries of the world need to stand together to make a stronger economy. I feel our congress is the biggest impediment to this, not the UN. As weak as the UN is, I’m sure some folks think they mean well. Unfortunately it is the corporations that are the 800lbs gorrilla now. They can bend all countries and economies to their will. Fortunately greed keeps them from organizing a total world take over because not one of them wants to see the other get over on them!

I 2nd that motion!

Exactly what I’ve been promoting, Think smart cheaper, faster, better, and make it work — not fail like NASA tends to do, when attempting the same thing. I still think tech has a real place in the equation, but they need to do it will cheaper civilian stuff. Why pay so much when the same damn thing can be bought on the street so much cheaper and thrown away when broken. We could have bought 100 laptops for what we pay for some of those armored versions. Equipment is expendable and should be designed that way, not our troops.

I’m just saying I think we can do more strategically and economically at the same time, and be even MORE effective!

The only reason I can think of why we would do that was because of the Russio/nuclear affect(my term); where by the Russians could not build missiles accurate enough to reliably destroy military targets so they built 80megaton warheads to totally destroy our cities as a counter measure.

The more accurate your weapons are the less yield and cost you need. With the constant improvement in SDI technology, countermeasures will become cheaper and at some point in the near future, be cheaper that nuclear capability. I definitely see a day coming where very few nuclear arms will be held by players on the world scene.

I can’t believe we aren’t improving our arsenal, I read in Scientific American that we have laboratory methods in improving our warheads with out expensive under ground testing methods or any other chest beating necessary. These facts are not even classified, and don’t need to be. The country that continues to rely solely on nuclear weapons for defense, will be the first to go bankrupt. Korea has already found that out, Iran is next.

Probably something wrong with whatever engine this site uses for display and control. A lot of them are going big on java. Contact the web administrator, I’m sure he would be interested in your feedback.

Gotta love that last line…

“Ask a Soviet, if you can find one.”

USA forever!

Choose not Chose.

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