Israel Edges Closer to Iran Strike

Israel Edges Closer to Iran Strike

Iran is in a muscle flexing mood. Iran told the world today that it refused to halt work on the recently discovered covert nuclear facility at Qom and then in a fit of anger vowed to build 10 new nuclear enrichment plants. International condemnation predictably followed, along with skeptics who said Iran was having trouble building out its current centrifuge plants (the Qom facility has been under construction for 3 years and is still a year away from completion) and that building 10 more would take decades.

Last week, Iran held what it touted as its largest ever air defense drill. Their intent was to send a message to Israel that an attack on Iran’s nuclear sites would not be a repeat of the fairly effortless Israeli destruction of Syria’s al-Kibar nuclear facility two years ago. Earlier this month, Israel and the U.S. held its largest ever joint anti-ballistic missile exercise intended to show Iran that it couldn’t easily rain ballistic missiles on Israel like it did during 1991’s Gulf War.

This is all part of the action-reaction dynamic and escalating regional arms race revolving around Iran’s nuclear program that has been going on for years now. Yet, close watchers of the looming showdown, such as Steven Simon of the Council on Foreign Relations, see plenty of signs that Israel is edging ever closer to what is likely to be a multi-pronged strike against Iran’s nuclear facilities. He writes in a new paper that one of the reasons Israel bombed the Osirak reactor in 1981 was that inaction on the part of the Carter and Reagan administrations left Israel feeling cornered and forced to act unilaterally. Pentagon sources tell us that, at least on DoD’s behalf, they have been scrambling to reassure Israel that it doesn’t stand alone.

Interestingly, in light of Iran’s air-defense exercises, Simon writes that of the many factors that might increase the likelihood of an Israeli attack, one that would almost guarantee Israeli air strikes is delivery of a missing piece to Iran’s air defense network, the long talked about sale by Russia to Iran of the S-300 (SA-20) surface to air missile (SAM) system.

Why would delivery of a SAM system be so destabilizing? Because Iran’s current air defense system is so weak and the S-300 is considered so good that if the system became operational it would greatly raise the costs of any Israeli strike. Most of Iran’s SAM systems are leftovers from the Shah days, such as their large inventory of U.S. built Improved Hawk (pictured above), a medium range, mobile SAM system, delivered in the late 1970s.

Beginning in the 1990s, Iran invested heavily in beefing up its ground based air defenses, seeing SAMs and radars as a more cost effective means of defending Iranian air space than trying to build or buy a modern jet fighter fleet. It bought anywhere from four to ten SA-5 batteries from Russia along with around 35 missiles, according to a new, unclassified Office of Naval Intelligence analysis. In 2006, Russia delivered around 29 TOR-M1 (SA-15) systems to Iran. A short-range SAM system, the TOR is considered very capable and highly mobile, which, because of Iran’s sizeable and mountainous terrain, could make for a very difficult weapon to find, that can “pop-up” most anywhere

What’s missing from Iranian air defenses is a modern, long-range SAM. That’s where the S-300 comes in. Iran announced in December 2007 that it had contracted to buy an unspecified number of the systems from Russia. The high-altitude, long-range S-300 is considered by some accounts to be comparable to the U.S. built Patriot air defense missile. Israel views it as such a threat that in early June 2009, Avigdor Lieberman, Israel’s foreign minister, went to Moscow to try and convince Russia to halt the sale. According to all reports, the deal has not gone through

I asked former RAND analyst David Ochmanek (some time ago before he went to work for DoD where he is now assistant secretary for force development) whether the S-300 was really a game changer. What makes systems such as the S-300 so dangerous, he told me, is that they have high-powered radars that are difficult to jam and more powerful, faster missiles. The S-300 threatens even stealth aircraft. “Everything is visible at a certain range,” he said, a jet that would essentially invisible to a 1970s era SA-2 will not be invisible to the newer models at the same distance.

Barry Watts, an analyst at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, a Washington, DC think tank, and a Vietnam era fighter pilot, told me that if pilots could spot the smoke trails of the earlier generation of SAMs then they could outmaneuver them, because of the G-force limitations of older missiles. With the new SAMs, outmaneuvering doesn’t work anymore, “those missiles went from 10G missiles, to about 30 or 40 Gs,” which means the missile’s turn rates are vastly improved. Coupled with the latest powerful radars, “if the missile is locked up on you and its guiding, the only thing you can do is pull the ejection handles and get out of the airplane.”

Photo credit: Mehr News Agency

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So, Greg what do you think, should I start shredding my code books?
If the US and Iran get in to a hot war I will probably lose the income I receive from my best customer.
Can I sleep on your couch if I need a place to say.
I can cook a mean zereshk pollo.
I can also do a very subtle abgush.

Looking at the map of the Middle East/Persia area, you could conclude that Israel buying multiple aerial refuelers would indicate a potential air strike against Iran. Israel buying anti-radiation missles and the capability to use them would indicate a potential air strike.
Is Israel doing either? I don’t have any evidence that they are.
They would have to overfly numerous hostile or not-cooperative countries, through some of the most closely watched airspace in the world.
So — would Israel send a large proportion of their strike fleet on a one-way, suicide, mission to possibly cripple Iran be something that it would do? NO.

The deal will likely never go through, becuase the Russians want to reserve the S-300/nuclear option as a potential bargaining piece with the Americans.

Just a grammar check Greg, but in the secoond paragraph it reads like Iran launched missiles at Israel in 1991 instead of Iraq.

If we’re going to help Israel launch airstrikes against Iran, can we at least wait until all of our guys are out of Iraq and not sitting around with bullseyes on their backs?

According to Iran, the S-300 sale is still on, even if Russia is late in delivering the missiles.

Israel has been conducting simulated long-range strikes all the way to Gibraltar, which approximates the distance to the Iranian nuke sites. These Israeli sorties made the Iranians nervous, and the Israelis bolder. Yes, Israel is still short on tankers, and overflight issues will arise, but will any country — especially the US — deny or even actively interfere with an Israeli strike? Jordan, Iraq and the Saudis aren’t the best of friends with Iran, and Israeli overflights can easily be allowed as long as afterwards someone else can get blamed.

Iran can say all it wants for political reasons, but the deal has been on hold for years, as has their deal for nuclear fuel.

What exactly would such a strike consist of? And how would it prevent Iran from developing its nuclear weapons potential? This isn’t a single site-above ground situation, as the Israeli’s faced in Syria and Iraq. This is a dispersed, mostly underground network of labs. The Israelis don’t have the fire power to cover the whole country, and they certainly don’t have the loiter time necessary to really make a dent in Iran’s capabilities. I haven’t heard anyone answering these questions.

The main problem hindering the Israeli Air Force is range here, I have no doubt their modernized F-15I and F-16I could deal with any Iranian Air Force opposition, the SAMs would be a bigger problem but the Israelis have excellent ECM systems and certainly have trained in SEAD tactics over the years. However the range issue is not one they can overcome easily, and at least a handful of aircraft are likely to be lost.

The later model S-300 (SA-20A/B) are good missile systems but not as devastating as the media hypes them up to be. The S-400 (SA-21) is a bigger concern but even that is not the tremendous leap the Russians state it is.

Council on Foreign Relations recently had a paper on this issue named “An Israeli Strike on Iran
CPA Contingency Planning Memorandum No. 5″
http://​www​.cfr​.org/​p​u​b​l​i​c​a​t​i​o​n​/​2​0​6​3​7​/​i​f​_​i​s​r​a​e​l​_st...

They say Israel’s F-15 and F-16s could reach the target with non conformal fuel tanks and refuel with 707 and Kc130 tankers. BLU bombs and other GPS guided weapons (which are in their inventory) would be used to hit targets such as Natanz (the largely underground site) by way of burrowing.

You can read about the flight paths, but they entail violating the airspace of multiple countries

In the end, the Israelis would have very little room for error. The targets lie near the outer ranges of their tactical aircraft’s limits. their tankers would likely have to remain in international airspace, and they would also have to contend with the radiological risks of hitting these sites.

Its time to destroy IRAN from one end to the other. Not just Mil Installations, but all of it. Get it over with. Kill them all. And tell the rest of the Arabs they are next, if they dont control themselves.

Time to kick butt. Get it over with. Irans wants the bomb to be a threat,to all countries in the middle east.. The big question what will Russia and China do.

Good Evening Folks,

This is old news, the latest variant of the S-300 System the MD2 is already obsoulute. This system has been electronically defeated by American technology.

The Russians have already discontinued this system and are stepping up the S-400 and it replacement the S-500 which is due when ever.

The only interesting question here is has the US transfered this technology to Israel or because of past transfers of restricted US defense technology to China is this system being with held.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

My advice is for both the Jews and Arabs to tell both the Radical Muslims and the international community to take a hike,I would love to see the Jews and Arabs from West Bank and Gaza get together and have cookouts together,be good neighbors to one another.They dont have to sign a piece a paper to do this,they just need to do it,If the Israeli Arabs would tell all of the radical muslim Arabs to get the fuck out, than there could be peace once and for all.This is the only way they are going to get a chance to share land with the Jews.I know people from the West Bank that says that they never have trouble out of the Jews just some of their own people.

Re “missile exercise intended to show Iran that it couldn’t easily rain ballistic missiles on Israel like it did during 1991’s Gulf War.”: I’m pretty sure it was Saddam’s Iraq that fired those SCUDs into Israel. But of course the demonstration by the exercise to Iran, now, would still make the same point the article mentions.

I am very skeptical that we would offer any help to Israel if they decided to proceed with a strike on Iran. We may still exert some influence on them for now, but I am pretty certain a time will come, possibly soon, where nothing we say will stop them from carrying out an assault. And yes, even if we come right out and condemn Israel for its actions it will not make a difference. We will still be a target. The anger of the “Arab street” will be directed largely at us. Nothing good will come of this.

And who is going to supply the bombers to carry such massive thermometric bombs? And how will they get past the entire IDF? It is hardly surprising that somebody like yourself wants to destroy Israel, considering your lack of sanity in everything you post.

which is exactly why the Iranians are perfectly justified in wanting to build the infrastructure to be able to enrich their own nuclear fuel.
Let it be said.
Let it be done.
Can I get a roll as the Pharaoh now?

Actually William ffb makes a few good points among all of the unusual rants he goes on.

It wouldn’t take much to take out isreal. The country isn’t very big. A few thermo nukes would wipe out the entire country. A low level air explosion would be enough to level all the major infrastructure and population.

Realize that like china and Russia, Iran does not want to be apart of the second tier of countries. It is in our long term interest to try to normalize relations with them.

I know the arguments about the Iranians supporting terror and their chants of death to America, but realize the same phrasing as death to America, is used for down with the other soccer team.

If you don’t believe me, find someone who speaks Arabic.

We should be pushing hard for the French enrichment of Iranian uranium. That move provides the supervision or the enrichment as well as a clean power source for the Iranian people. Something that will lead to development of their economy.

Developing economies need outside money to grow in the current economic climate. Foreign investment leads to economic ties.economic ties means harming America is against your own interests.

That in the long run is our best option. While American power may be reducing relative to some countries, our absolute power and ability to change international events hasn’t changed. There are simply more things taking the time and attention of our government and our people.

Mahabala, why would the Iranians be speaking Arabic?

The Iranians have the blood of hundreds of Americans on their hands. Have they ever apologized for seizing our embassy in Tehran, blowing up our embassy in Beruit and murdering hundreds of marines as they slept? What about Khobar Towers? What about their military support for Iraqi Shiite Militias who have killed hundreds of Americans in Iraq? The US is not standing in the way of normalization; it’s Iranian intransigence and militancy.

AFAIC, Iran, like every other country, has a right to nuclear power. But, with such power comes responsiblity which the Iranians have not demonstrated. I hate to sound paternalistic, but the Iranians are a bunch of brats and bullies on the international scene and will remain in the second tier of countries as a consequence of this juvenille behavior.

All this talk about Israel striking Iran via the air ignores several keys points:

The Israelis have some of the best diesel electric subs in the world, all equipped with very long range cruise missiles which can practically hit Tehran from Israeli ports! I think the Israelis would likely use airpower
as a distraction/supplement to a submarine attack.

An even bigger point is the massive military capability of the Gulf Arab states all of whom have gone on *huge* military spending sprees as a result of Iran’s sabre rattling. The Gulf Arab states have the defensive and offensive capabilities to wipe the floor with Iran’s military which for all the Persian bluster is not particularly well equipped, led or trained.

The ideal strike on Iran would encompass an escalation of ethnic rebellions in Iran proper coupled with an infiltration of pro-Arab Iraqis into the Arabistan region of Iran. I think a combined Israeli + Gulf Arab strike could establish Arabistan as a “liberated zone” within Iran proper. This zone could eventually be merged with Iraq. Frankly, Iran could be dismembered in fairly quick order with a concerted overt and covert military campaign.

Whos’ eye is on who?
The American Immigration system? Perhaps.

I think the war rituals are multi nothing and only short lived rituals today — so far within the middle east.

Do we have any real interest in controlling their futures while we find new interest in our own futures?

It’s occupational position is not passive enough for inventory data sharing — Brighten more torches here first.

Famed investigative journalist Seymour Hersh (My Lai massacre, 1969) has written several articles in the New Yorker about US/Israeli attack plans that have been ongoing for years. If Israel attacks, they will depend on US air tanker refueling to carry out strikes on Iranian nuke sites.

Iran has every right to have nukes. Israel started this nuke arms race in the middle east by getting nukes first. If I was a country neighboring Israel I too would feel the need to protect my country and people from a neighbors nukes. Who the hell gave the US/Israel the right to tell other countries what they can and cannot do?????

I trust we have finally scrapped the “high altitude bombing” concept. If we participate, it should be
blockading the Strait of Hormuz and the coast of Iran. A combination of blockading and Israeli air attacks
could be “spun” to concern for the world’s safety and our deep concern for all the “innocents” of the region.

The triad approach is all that will work in riding our world of these tyranical “evil doers”.

Israel acquired nukes because of its lack of strategic depth and general vulnerability to attack from its Arab neighbors. We can debate the necessity of Israel developing WMD but not the utility.
At the time Israel acquired nukes, Iran and Israel were allies; Israel got most of its oil from Iran.

It is Iran which has been irredeemably hostile to Israel, America and Iran’s Gulf Arab Neighbors..not the other way around. It tried and failed to export its militant Shiite orthodoxy at the cost of hundreds of thousands of lives; Arab, American, Israeli and Iranian lives.

The Non-Proliferation Treaty which Iran *signed* freely is why the hell the US has a right to tell Iran what it can and cannot do in this regard. Iran has a right to nuclear power under the terms of the NPT. Abide by them and apologize for then stop with the militancy and the world will welcome Iran with open arms.

I am assuming that the people who post here are military, and would like to say that your anti-semite comments here are not welcome. Religion has nothing to do with what is going on in the middle east. Isreal is the only Democratic country in the region, and this is the only reason why there is conflict. Nothing else. To get rid of Isreal and turn it into an Islamic state is all that is wanted by the pschos of the middle east. Now that we have a “war on terror,” aren’t any of you “idiots” paying attention to what the politics are? To blame the rife of the middle east on Zionism or the Jewish religion is both ignorant and uncalled for. And, if you would like another short history lesson, during WWII the middle-east sided and gave comfort to Hitler’s forces, BEFORE Isreal became a state. Shame on you and your ignorance of history and world events.

Since the stated objective has always been “protecting Israel’s right to exist,” and this at the cost of allowing her latitudes not afforded any Arab nations “hostile” to that end, I submit that it is unnecessary, should a “solution ” to the problem be really desired, to station troops throughout the region in “hostile nations. An end all fix would probably be to withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan and station all of those troops and military hardware inside of Israel and dare an opponent to attack!

“The target”? But there’s not just one target here, but dozens. How does the analysis accommodate that reality?

I see it’s springtime for Hitler…

But is it electronically defeatable by Israel?

And to all the other anti-semites: before you write off Israel, perhaps you should check your history. Last time I looked, Israel not only defended itself from Day 1 from all of it’s neighbors, it BEAT THEM. That’s right, they WON. And not just once, either. And without U.S. support, direct or otherwise, for most of those conflicts. Full-scale invasions and terrorists, inside threats and outside. It hasn’t mattered. Must I remind you that both Egypt and Jordan sued for peace with Israel? That every other country that is a declared enemy has yet to do anything serious, besides sending in surrogates (i.e. Hamas & Hezbollah)? Why would that be? Perhaps because they’re SCARED OF ISRAEL? Seriously, if you can come up with a real reason why they haven’t, I’m all ears. Because the evidence is very much against you.

And so is God, apparently.

I believe that there is a major problem with Iran. The question is what to do about it. The U.S. has to much invested in Isreal to let them be destroid by a section of people who hate everybody. Look at what they have done to there own people, not to mention all the people that they, as I phrase it, kidnaped using illigal border crossings as an excuse. Some with some intellengence should be able to make the point. these people have lost their mind! When will the peacemakers learn.

Read it.

Enough of the Iranian BS. Tehran and its islamic radicals need to be taught a lesson now it seems. Whats Iran going to do ? Hide behind the Russians and Chinese and cry wolf ? Iran has been killing Americans and innocent men, women and children in different Western countries as far back as 1979. Irans credibility is now zilch.

Good Afternoon Folks,

To FFB, I would say the probability that Iran has the ability or means for either a retaliatory or a proactive strike on Israel is close to zero.

To add to what Joe said. A missile strike by Iran on Israel would be an exercise in fruitility, since all Iran’s short/medium range missiles have a warhead capacity of 200–300 Kg’s., even if all Iran’s missiles landed on a target it would only cause minimal damage to Israel.

Israel has been there and done that. I would be surprised if there is any consolidation of industry or infrastructure that would give Iran a target, if it’s missiles would be accurate enough to his a target at that distance.

Right now it looks as if Israel did do a strike on Iran’s nuclear facilities, the net result would be some self righteous indignation on the part of a few European countries and thats it.

Russia wants to trade with Israel and sell them energy, China has over $6 billion in military transfers from Israel, their J-10 Fighter/Attack aircraft was largely built by Israeli engineers and contractors in China, and the United States, well we all know how President Obama will react, he will send the Sec. of State to Israel and tell them they were naughty, naughty.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

If iran is attacked it will be a devestating blow to the United States. Iran will probably refuse to send any more 7–11 attendants to the U.S. Who’s going to sell you a slurpie than huh.

“We will have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us” Golda Meir

Iranians aren’t Sunni Arabs they are Shia Persian with only a handful of Arabs near the border with Iraq

great point can’t trust Israel with tech

Let the Iranians learn how truly civilized people act. We showed the terrorist savages that trespassed on George Washington’s land Christian charity, the Iranians deserve no less.
Not only that, but Israel can become the second greatest mass murder of Jews, when the Jews of Iran, who have refused bribes to go to Israel die in the firestorm.

David: Israel and the U.S. haven’t ever promised to use their nukes on anyone else. Who has? Oh, yeah, that would be Iran. Who is surrounded by hostile neighbors? Oh, maybe Israel. For what they’ve done? Nope, for existing. So what’s that word that means holding a big stick to keep the bullies at bay? Deterrence. Guess that means Israel has a right to defend itself. Unless you subscribe to the idea that Israel is the key to all evil in the world, much less the Middle East. In which case, why are you bothering to post anything here, where people are trying to have an intelligent and informed debate?

TODAY its IRAN Tomorrow it will be someone else.
The threats to Israel will continue from any neighbouring country, it will stop Only when Israel stop killing innocent Palestenians and stop taking their home lands. If Israel wants to be a watch dog for west then it needs to be told by west and uncle SAM needs to tell and make israel stop this genocide.
If nothing is done every now and then any neighbouring country will try to keep this dog chained in the middle east.
Hypocracy has a limit but the stink of your hypocracy of is making me puke.
Talking about blood on hands and democracy, you should know how the palestenian kids are locked up in the biggest priso in the world with no food, water, medicine and electricty. Try to live in thier shoes and then youll realize why there is so much hate for Israel and its backers.
Enough said i think you all know about it just dont wanna face it as you are all in denial when you think that you guys live in a country which love humanity and support human rights, its quite the opposite actually.

This is for David. Are you a complete idiot!!!! How can you even think that Iran has a right to possess nuclear weapons, when their psychotic regime openly and frequently threatens Israel with complete destruction. Their current regime hasn’t demonstrated in anyway whatsoever that they possess, or even understand for that matter, the responsibility that goes with possessing weapons of this magnitude. One North Korea is enough. There certainly is no room on this earth for another psychotic regime to have possession of such weapons that they can use as a bargaining chip to get their way. HELL NO!!!!!! Have you ever heard of Armegeddon? I dont know about you, but I’m in no hurry to see it!!!

For Uncle Sam:first of all you should learn some elementary English grammar,then let me tell you that nobody remembers any Israeli blowing himself/herself up on a bus full of school children,nobody has ever seen an Israeli treated in a Palestinian hospital,nobody has ever seen an Israeli sitting in the Palestinian parliament,nobody has ever seen a tiny country attacked without a warning by a coalition of several states
defend itself,win the war occupy the enemy land and return it.And if America is a country without love for humanity and human rights why in the hell all those rag heads are driving cabs in New York City instead of Jeddah or Tehran,why do they come here in the land of Satan?I would never set foot on Arab land to save my life.And by the way I’m an Italian who doesn’t understand why are Americans so naive or should I say so stupid to let them in.

To Mom,

Every Arab nation plays to it’s nutcase conservative base by promising to destroy Israel. Nothing more than saber rattling.

Also, the 1973 war was a stalemate that the Arabs got the best of.

Sorry about that but facts are facts.

Respectfully,

Daniel Russ
Civilianmilitaryintelligencegroup​.com

FOr LUIGI:
First of all my english is not at the test here nor are those Cab drivers you are refering to are relevant to the discussions here however they sure have shown the redneckness of your innerself and the built in racism of the author and some of the people who replied in this whole debate.

Think of a scenario : when someone comes at your home and occupy it by mighty force and lock you up in the corner, and then every international community tells you that its their country. Then you dont have a force to defend your home nor you can get any help whatsoever from any one outside and you see ypur children dieing of hunger, disease everyday.
What would you do. Wouldnt you fight with your bare hands and with everything you can get?
Whole morality is questionable, double standards are very obvious how can Israel has a right of possessing nukes but no one else?

questions are simple but answer is mute. Half of the todays world problem will go away if they fix this Palestine issue.
Rednecks have already commented in the debate above that destroy whole middle east but that is not a solution,

Damn, its like a mini cold war. My moneys on Israel

We should have taken out Iran in 2003 when we took out Iraq.

Yours was the Best answer out of all the replies that I read about the iran Nuclear issue.

As soon as the first Iranian shape charge was used in Iraq against us, we should have told Iran at that time to completely disarm your nation, including dissolving completely all aspects of your military, or you are next for regime change.

Gees what a long sentence.

haha, yeah, that would be nice for the guys inside the LAVs and Bradleys

There is a book, “The bomb in the Basement”. Read it.Israel does not need a conventional airstrike to turn Iran into a desert. The Irianians know it.

There is a historical fallacy in this article. Iran never shot missiles at Israel during the 91 Gulf War, it was Iraq!

Israel has a history of out of the box thinking. Personally, I don’t see Israel hitting the Nuke facilities, but the Natural Gas facilities and other coastal infrastructure that pays for their nuke program. Makes more sense to me. Hitting the nuke sites, if you can find them all, if you can penetrate underground facilites, and the cost of flying deep into and out of Iranaian airspace seems to large and risky and predictable of a mission. But what do I know?

Brad,
Your 100 percent correct on that.
The Israeli’s are way too smart to just fly over Iran and be sitting ducks for the waiting Iranian anti-aircraft weapons systems.

That’s it, blame the Jews for everything. Christians had nothing to do with it (Crusades). After all, lets not blame the Muslims (and only one subset at that) who are building the nukes and threatening to use them on the Infidels (that’s right, they don’t care if you are Jewish, Christian, or Atheistic or even Muslim of a different variety than they are).

And let’s put all this religion aside, since this is really just an excuse and drug for the underlings– Iran wants to be the power (then kill everyone not them). And you want to.….. let them? Is that right? Its not like we are talking about a moderate state, say Georgia or even Russia or something– we are talking about a state that, regardless of our standing with Israel, wants to rule the world and kill you very dead. Even Russia wouldn’t mind leaving you alive as long as they were in charge– with Iran you do and think exactly how they say or you die (and they aren’t as nice as the Christians who would torture you into converting, then kill you anyway, you are just going to be very dead).

Here’s your history lesson for the day: We tried to stay out of WWI and WWII– look where it got us.

As for the “criminal Isreali experiment”, what the hell? You want to make this about religion, ok– how many Muslim and Christian countries are in this world? And how many Jewish countries? Just what makes you think it is criminal anyway?

Here’s another history lesson for you who are placing all blame on Isreal– THE US BACKED THE IRANIAN SHAH– that’s right, just like with Russia, we backed the enemies of the current “powers that be” in that country (though you’d think Russia would have calmed down after we pulled their red tails out of Hitler’s fire). They hate us without Israel for an excuse. Were we right? I don’t know– the options were a predictable dictatorship governing party, or an unknown tyranny in the making.

Personally, I would like to see every nation in that region (in fact on earth) have uncorrupted elected leadership representing the true will of the nation’s people. It is my opinion that many of these conflicts are incited by the presiding leadership to give an external threat to their civilian population and keep them dumbed down and hyped up about the external threat so they can’t figure out what a raw deal they’re getting and do something about it. I think once governments are all run by the people, that we, as a single world population, can start addressing the issues that matter most– like drinkable water and its disappearance, pollution, non-rewnable energy sources being depleted at a record pace, etc.

As for this last paragraph, those who reply only to tell me what a naive fool I am are welcome to save your breath and time– I already know.

And for UNCLE SAM,

As if the Palestinians are any less guilty– its just been longer since there atrocities.

Furthermore, if it were as simple as feeding hungry children because someone came into your home, then why haven’t you packed up and moved to another home? After all, which is more important? The health and well being of your children or physical location in which you live?

And what about the Israelis? Again, of all the nations on earth, only 1 is Jewish. Only 1 has not persecuted them simply because they worship the “Creator” (or whatever you choose to call the most high) differently than the people around them. Only 1 has not made them into slaves or tried to exterminate them. Even in the US you can’t say that– there is still a lot of antisemitism here. And even in the one place on this entire planet, a place occupying less than .001% of the planet’s surface, they are still hounded by those that wish them to no longer exist.

Let’s turn your analogy around on you: Let’s put you in the Jew’s shoes– let’s say these Persian and Muslim people came and took you and your family out of your home. Now you and your family are hungry, diseased AND have no home. At least in your analogy, the Palestinians still have theirs.

Now what do you think?

i think that israel is being highly objective and if i was in the boots of the U.S president i would think twice before giving any type of military help and i know it was not stated that they were going to help but several times in the past they have helped israel with there large military

There are some points that are totaly wrong in this article!
1. Iran dident attack israel durint gulf war, it was Irak and saddam who did it!
2. It wasent Liberman who went too Russia for stopping the s-300 sale too Iran!
Please read you news right before you write an article, it is important too have right information before you do it!

well, Iran did support Iraq’s attacking of Israel, in the hopes that Iraq would bring the arab world to its side if Israel attacked them, the coalition there did a good job of keeping Israel from attacking Iraq or we’d probably have a very different middle east. As per the Liberman stuff, I have no clue about, also, it helps if you can verify the information from multiple sources. ideally three sources saying all the same things

According to that theory then we better get them all out of Afghanistan as well, since it also borders Iran.

to view a partial list of crimes committed by FBI agents over 1500 pages long see
forums.signonsandiego. com/showthread.php?t=59139

to view a partial list of FBI agents arrested for pedophilia see
dallasnews com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3574

Ah, Daniel..I just don’t agree with your “history” of the 1973 war. Now in the beginning Israel was for certain getting their arses handed to them by Egypt on one side and Syria on the other, but they rallied and pushed 1st Syria back past, well past the 1967 cease fire line (Oct 15), then pushed Egypt back to within 1 kilometer of the main Cairo-Ismailia hwy, it was only when the USSR threatend to intervene with military force that the UN stepped in and a cease fire was declared..then the UN got Israel to give Egypt and Syria the land back. A move I do not believe for one second the US or any other nation would have done under similar circumstances. It did change the IDF’s view of their Arab opponents and their own vulnerability but they most certainly did NOT have a stalemate with the Arabs as you say. Where are your facts, I’m a Ph. D in History. Just curious?

Kevin,

The US consistently helps Israel sometimes of our own free will and sometimes because the Israeli spies are just that good. Unfortunately, we try to help them and often they stab us in the back as in their many military transactions with China and other states less than friendly with the US. Yet still, the US does and will continue to send money and might to the Israeli’s..it’s a difficult business and no clear right answer seems to be on the horizon.

The Americans have the blood of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, Afghans, Vietnamese on their hands. Have they ever apologized for killing millions in Vietnam, blowing up more than half of Sudan’s medical production, supporting dictators & tyrants in Saudi Arabia and Egypt? What about the aparthied state of israel? What about their special operations in Somalia which have killed thousands of innocents? Iran is not standing in the way of normalization; it’s the American intransigence and militancy.

Furthermore the Americans have the blood of hundreds of thousands of Iranians on their hands.
Have the Americans ever apologized for fighting along side the Iraqis during the war in which Iraq blatantly invaded Iran? Have Americans ever apologized for placing an arms embargo against Iran while they were trying to defend their country from the butcher of Baghdad? Not only have Americans not apologized they never even think about it. The few that do think that it was one of the high points of American history. Then they wonder how a true patriot, one who can still recognize Thomas Paine the spiritual mother of our country, can honor Maj. Hassan.
Shame!
Shame!
Shame on you (the military, not Jackbird) not on me!

Really Michael? I thought by now that the Israelis would have gotten thier own tankers by now

China with their purchase of the South Azadegan Oil Fields from Iran, and the subsequent installation of “Secret” nukes to protect their investment have in effect balanced the “Mutual Destruction” formula in the Middle East! and the Chinese hold the little red button that shuts the Jews up for good! not the Muslims! not the Ayatollahs! Now watch as the Great Red Dragon slowly and at its own leisure, in a great international chess game played for energy alone, builds pipelines to drain all the Middle East, faster and more effectively than the Halliburton(Dubai)‘s effort to pipe dream the oil down through Afghanistan and finally to New York Harbor! Keep in mind at all times: in the Middle East, Oil is the issue, all else is window dressings hiding that fact! Middle Eastern Oil flowing through Israel to the Mediterranean then to an Oil starved America is a dream shared by Israel, Halliburton(Dubai) and The U.S.A. and they all await an excuse to turn Muslims, their countries into irradiated glazed over parking lots for Hummers, and oil pipelines to the U.S., Israel! but China will balance the equation, they need Oil too! as do the Russians! Armageddon is armed and ready today with “Secret” American nukes, Russian nukes (secret too!) and Chinese nukes “Secret” of course! Israel is but a speck of dust in the holocaust set to go off at any moment, a small oil-less target, but a target due to their American nukes! The fools! they will shoot themselves in the foot with Russian and Chinese nukes by invitation, long before the American pipeline and docks to ship Middle Eastern oil to New York Harbor are ever built in israel!

My suggestion is to build a strong defenses and counteroffensive measures when it comes to that. Everybody believes in self defense.

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