Doubling Afghan Forces Unrealistic

Doubling Afghan Forces Unrealistic

One of the more interesting “tweaks” to Gen. Stanley McChrystal’s war plan that emerged from the Obama strategy review is the paring back of the target number for building out the Afghan security forces. In his strategic plan, McChrystal called for doubling Afghan security force strength and set a new “target ceiling” of 240,000 for the ANA and 160,000 for the Afghan police. In his speech this week President Obama pointedly did not talk about doubling the size of Afghan forces.

Senior White House officials, in a background briefing to reporters a few hours before Obama’s speech, made it clear the 400,000 figure is unrealistic: “We’re actually taking this in smaller increments because we think that a goal that large and that far out — roughly four to five years in the future — is more than we can accurately program for and predict the requirement for at this stage. We see the Afghan security forces developed based on repetitive assessments on the ground more effectively in probably annual increments, rather than projecting three or four years out. So 400,000 doesn’t have much weight with us.” The present target of 134,000 Afghan army ration strength by fall 2010 still stands; beyond that it will depend on how much progress is made in actual fighting strength.

Desertions and poor performance continue to plague both the Afghan army and police. In his testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said the Taliban continues to pay its fighters more than the Afghan government pays government troops. He said the U.S. will be “significantly increasing” Afghan soldier pay to try and boost retention.


According to Anthony Cordesman, defense guru at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, as military officials took a closer look at the state of the Afghan army it became clear they have a long way to go. “The problem here is simple: Quality is as important as quantity. There is too much attrition, there is too little attention to training quality and performance,” he told reporters on Wednesday. The Obama administration also sent a message to the Afghan government that they cannot count on an endless flow of resources into government coffers to build a fighting force, he said.

Mark Moyar, a military historian and professor at the Marine Corps University, has warned repeatedly that a rapid expansion of the security forces risked producing forces of poor quality that wouldn’t survive the test of combat; in fact Moyar wrote an excellent book about the risks of rapid expansion, A Question of Command. Recruiting troops is the easy part as there are always enough jobless military age males in developing countries eager for a paycheck. Producing competent leaders, particularly at the small unit level, and molding troops into competent fighting units is a much longer process, he says.

Moyar told me it’s likely that Ambassador Karl Eikenberry, who has also warned that rapidly expanding the Afghan security forces will gravely undermine quality, played a role in changing the thinking at the top on this. It’s also possible that McChrystal himself realized his expansion plans were overly ambitious. Moyar said it will take years, not months, to build competent Afghan leaders. It will also take putting our best people to the task. In the interim, he says, American officers must step in to fill the leadership gap in Afghan units.

Joint Chiefs chair, Adm. Mike Mullen, told Senators this week that American troops will be much more directly engaged with Afghan units; “mentoring” is out, he said, “partnering” is in. “This is getting everybody off their bases and out with the community,” he said.

The U.S. military shied away from taking direct command of Iraqi units because of political sensitivities over sovereignty. In this war, the urgent need to turn things around quickly may push political sensitivities to the back.

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Good Morning Folks,

It with appear that president Obama has taken the 80% approach the Sec. of Defense Gates has promoted, with a bet hedging 30K additional troops.

It would appear that President Obama has basically given up on the Karzi Government. His direction that all future US aid to be distributed at the village level is a direct slap in the face to Hamid Karzi and an indicator by President Obama that that the current central Government is a failure and has been written off.

The US of US combat forces to actively engage the Taliban and destroy them would seem to be a sound policy, we saw al Qaeda Iraq folded up with the killing of al Zarqawi, the only question is why do we need an additional 30K more troops to do the job?

The training of an Afghan Military is at best a dicey bet. All indicators are that it will not be as successful as President Obama hope it will be.

The problem that make up the addition 20% of the Afghanistan equation if creating a stable Government and Economy. During the Bush era the President firmly backed a market drive, Capitalist Democratic Government be the goal when ever the US intervened into a country. President Bush went so far to say that such a Government was a gift from God.

In Afghanistan unlike Iraq there is not tradition of a National Government, an organized economy with a functional Commercial Code (like the UCC in the US) or a history of a loyal National Military. The prevailing culture in Afghanistan is a folks culture that has changed little in about 4K years CE. Even Islam didn’t come on to the scene until about 1K CE. The Taliban have existed only since 1989 and has only one leader, Mullah Omar.

It would appears that if the decapation efforts of the Taliban and al Qaeda are successful Afghanistan will have some breathing room, but it won’t be the US poring more and more Soldiers/Marines and investment into the country.

Politically President Obama appears to have threaded the needle with this decision, nobody is happy and nobody totally disagrees, with the exception of the Wingers and Libertarians who exist in their own fantasy worlds, where anything Presiden Obama dies is unacceptable.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

The problem here is that we’re convinced we need to create some elite fighting force to take on the insurgency, which couldn’t be farther from the truth. These are moutain people who were practicaly born fighting after decades of war, unrest and lawlessness.

Saying we need to teach the Afghans to fight is like saying we need to teach the Germans to drink beer, or the French to love.….it’s silly when you say it out loud. In many areas we simply legitimize the insurgency, and give an excuse for the Afghans to stay out of the fight. If we really feel the need to pick a winner in this street fight then supply, train, and arm the side you like and get out of the way. What is most needed from almost every report is pay, estimates are 70% of the “enemy” fight for money and food. Anything else you give them from operational support (air/logistic) to advanced weaponry just sweetens the deal.

If we are to take and hold key areas in Helmond and particularity Kandahar, we will need more men or risk being stalled just like we are in Helmond.

Despite European claims to the contrary, Nato member training has been poor, which likely means we will be doing most of the heavy lifting concerning training. Partnerships will likely require even more troops (given the size of the current Afghan army) considering that the Afghan Army is not ready to fight on their own.

The much vaunted civilian surge is impossible w/o more troops to protect State Department employees, and to secure the areas in which they operate

It’s a popular urban myth that the average Afghan is born an effective fighter. This this simply not the case. Afghan soldiers (the ones that are there to fight, and not just pick up a paycheck) do display fighting spirit, but they lack combat discipline, cohesion, and lack basic skill(like the ability to call in artillery). Furthermore, US forces have been wary of partnering with them becuase they don’t know if the guy behind them is going to do something stupid which gets them killed. The fact of the matter is that Taliban fighters are trained to near professional standards, and the Afghan army is going to have to be trained to that level or better.

oh when will all this end?

Good Morning Drake 1,

Although I agree with, most of what you and pennst98 are saying I will just to have to find something a little discussion going here. I can differ with Drake 1 when you make the assumption of “the averages Afghan is born an effective fighter”.

The average Taliban Fighter (I assume this is your average Afghan fighter) is most likely a teenager, perhaps with some religious indoctrination taught by an instructor holding an AK-47, to serve the cause of Allah and Jihad. Were the Taliban does have it over the US military is in leadership. There are by the US estimate there are anywhere from 8-10K seasoned small unit leaders who have been learning and practicing their trade/craft since 1979.

These are men who started out as kids watching the activities around Soviet bases, paying close attention to the comings and goings of helicopters for Stinger Crews out in the bush, and reporting what they saw to a Taliban controller who passed the intelligence up this chain of command. A crude but very effective intelligence operation, the Soviets could never shut it down.

From there they joined and then lead ambushes, joined Stinger Crews as teenagers, and graduated to planting mines, attacking armored vehicles with RPG’s, and then leading small strike units (in US jargon, Squad and Platoon level missions).

The Taliban leaders are not specialists as US officers and NCO’s tend to be, but a well experienced generalists who have taken down attack helicopter, attacked tanks with RPG’s and lead men in small unit operations. He also know the land and knows the people.

The huge difference though is that the Taliban fighter KNOWS that he will die in Afghanistan. The American leader knows that at the end of his tour he will return to the United States and not see combat again till he returns to a war zone.

It is these 8-10K Taliban leaders that General Mc Crystal must kill if the US has any hope of leaving Afghanistan with any chance to entering the company of nations. Even if a hand full of Talliban leaders survive all is lost.

To those of you old enough to remember this was the myth used to justify the US mission Vietnam, we were fighting for there hearts and minds f the South Vietnamese, but first we had to grab ‘em by the balls to get their attention. But in South Vietnam the fight was mostly between two invading Armies. In Afghanistan there is only one invading Army, us.

ALLONS,
Byrob Skinner

Drake,
Can you give an explanation as to how the Taliban came to be a better trained fighting force than the anti taliban forces? I am tempted to ask if Taliban LTs know how to call for artillery support but I will bite my tongue and not ask that because it might make me seem like a Taliban supporter.

Byron,

I think your are at least partially correct about Obama’s attitude toward H. Karzai. Really appears he was hoping that the election would bring new leadership to Afghanistan and possiblly less corruption than the Karzai government exhibited. There are several social scientist folk who seem to think the right approach is to work with the local tribal leadership and possibly build some type of Regional governing system rather than waste time, money, and man power on a hopeless attempt at creating a central government. (Something you noted yourself has never before existed in Afghanistan.)
There are always going to be people unhappy with any Presidents decision in war, that includes democrats, republicans, independents, liberals and conservatives. Just further proves the old adage that you can’t make everyone happy so just do what you believe is best given the information you have. ANd we all know that information is only as good as the intel we get back from folks on the ground and working inside the country.
cont.

The rational for the 30K troops, as I’ve understood it, is that these are needed to create the security that will enable the trainers of the Afghan army and police to focus on training and not killing or being killed. The roads leading to and from the capital were once relatively safe in 2005 but I’m told now it’s a death wish to drive. So, not saying it will work, but that I believe is the reason for the additional troops, just like with the surge in Iraq they hope to bring security and thereby stability. Those two things will allow merchants to work, and people to feel like they can come out of their homes without being killed.
Cont.

My friends tell me training the Afghan army is extremely difficult. I think (again personal opinion here not factual) a lot of the problem is the cultural differences and the idea that the American way of doing things is the only way of doing things. i.e. one minor issue is that the Afghans didn’t want to wear combat boots, they would rather stick to their sandals…but the US trainers can’t get past the safety concerns over their shoes so it becomes and issue. In the scheme of things, really..it’s only a darn shoe and even a boot won’t stop a bullet or a bomb so just let them train in what they’ll put on the second you leave anyway.
cont.

Next, we went out and spent thousands of dollars building them nice modern kitchens etc for the soldiers to use and when we came back they had sold all the stoves, refrig. etc down to the cement slabs and kept only the pots and pans..said they were fine using an open fire…so let’s just let them eat over a darn fire and stop wasting time and resources on something they have little or no desire to own. Just my two cents..and I’m sure these are not the only reasons things aren’t going as well as we’d like but I think they are contributors to the overall problem the US forces face. Just my thoughts on the circumstances of Obama’s plan in Afghanistan. Sorry for all the continues but it won’t take the full comment together.

Answer Curt…the CIA trained them during their war with Russia..how else do you think they acquired the stingers and the knowledge to use them to shoot down Helicopters? Heck there’s even a PBS series about how the CIA trained the Taliban to take on the Russians..that’s old news.

Good Morning World Traveler,

Really can’t find any disagreement with what you said in any of your posts. I still though have my doubts about the tactical value of the 30K additional troops. I have no doubt that the missions you indicate that they will be doing is what their use will be, it does seem to be a waste of 30K prime ground combat troops to be doing police work though.

One thing not mentioned is the kicked up technology that will be deployed with this rotation of Marines and Soldiers. The biggie for the Army will be the deployment of the MQ-1-C Warrior. This really is a Predator II and not just a 2.0 upgrade.

The big deal is that the Warrior will be deployed at the Brigade level with its operators in country and able to develop a situational awareness of the operation as it unfolds on the ground, instead bored AF fighter pilot officers on hold doing a two year TDY so the AF can pad it fighter jock ranks pulling eight hour shifts at Creech AFB near Las Vegas.

If the operator screws up he will have to face that platoon in the mess tent when they come back in, this is a huge incentive to do it right the first time.

This will move the MQ-5-A/B Hunter Viper down to the battalion control level. Like the MQ-1-C the MQ-5 (also the 6 and 7 variants) are new versions of the aging Hunter System Platform, although the platform has changed too, and it is armed for the first time.

This will give the battalion commander a lot more operational flexibility as well as precision fire power with the GUB-44B which has an accuracy at it’s 8km. range of less then 1 Meter and can engage bot stationary and moving targets.

Other systems coming with this rotation is the Stryker MGS a 105mm direct fire support weapon for the Infantry, the NLOS-LS rockets that come in a box of 15 and can be placed and moved by helicopter will be used at the battalion and company levels, the rockets of the NLOS-LC has a range of 23.5 miles and again with a less then one meter accuracy.

The GATR (Guided Attack Advanced tactical Rocket) this is a really old system (the old Zuni 2.75″ Rockets of Vietnam and before) that now is laser guided and a strap on to existing platforms like the UH-1’s Huey/Cobra and and the UH-60s Blackhawk and the AH 64 Apache, the rockets accuracy is a meter circle or less and can engage both moving and stationary targets, are among the new systems to be deployed.

Of course the must have gadget of the next deployment for the Squad Leader to the Brigade Commander will be a RATS (Raytheon Android System ‚think combat iPhone) on the Data form Distributed Common Ground Systems and Integrated with backbone.

Life could get rough for the Taliban this next year.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

It might be unrealistic (and therefore difficult) to increase the Afghan force to the size mentioned but its the way to go — the US/NATO effort thus has simply been fail. Over pretty much the same period as the Soviets were there, the coalition, with about the same number of troops (about 50% MORE after the surge) that the Soviets had at peak, fighting about HALF the number of Islamic fundamentalists, have killed barely a THIRD that the Soviets killed — and thats with 20 years of improved technology and (time for) analysis. It seems the only ones who learned from last time are the Taliban and AQ who are lying low doing just enough to bleed the coalitions will and finances. Osama hasn’t kept their strategy a secret.

The Afghans did alright on there own after the Soviets left — its when the Soviet Union collapsed and Russia would no longer support them that the Taliban took over. Train and equip the Afghans and give them a reason to not capitulate when the coalition pulls out; you can start by cleaning up their politics.

Good Evening World Traveler,

Once something is put into words its an opinion and just another draft of history. You seem to know Afghanistan very well, or as Mr. Holmes said to Dr. Watson up their first meeting; “I see you have been to Afghanistan”.

If I only communicated with people who agree with me, I would live in a very small world. Gentlemanly polite and respectful discourse that deal in evidence and learned opinion is what I personally like to engage in.

…I’m a former Infantryman who served in a Cavalry Unit in Vietnam 43 years ago.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

Byron,

I hope life gets rough for the Taliban and easier for the US and NATO forces there fighting. I try to limit my comments to points I’ve read or studied about either recently or in the past..only occassionally do I allow myself to much room for my opinion..and then I try to note that it is just that..“my” opinion. Given that I read a great deal I feel that at least my opinions are educated guesses and not the ramblings of someone with a grudge against one group or another such as that FreeFB fellow. He’s rants are, well rants. I enjoy reading your posts, though I do not always agree and at times have replied with my disagreements. Still a good place to have open discourse.

All-Ons to you..I’m a former Navy Swab,
W.T

Time to Wake Up! This war was over in Spring 2002! We need to STOP borrowing money NOW! We are on the brink of an economic monetary implosion. Over $10 Trillion plus in debt and nothing to show for it! Oh yeah, thats a great national strategy. Only a miniscule few Americans are really benefiting from this failed & misguided mindset. Stop making decisions based on foolish pride and start thinking for yourself. None of these overseas activities will do anything to preserve the health and welfare of the USA in the long-term — only bankrupt us. There is not one shred of factual evidence that continueing on this path of military stupidity will give us a positive result. Don’t let the Military-Industrial Complex fool you any longer. Wake Up to Reality! We don’t have much time left to get back on the ‘Rational thinking’ track.

I AGREE THAT WE NEED TO PULL OUT AND GET READY TO DEFENED OUR ON BOARDERS, IF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WOULD GET OUT AND WORKK OUR LAND LIKE THEY DID LONG TIME AGO. WE WOULD BE BETTER OFF THAN WE ARE NOW. QUIT DEPENDING ON THE OVERSEAS MARKET, AND GET BACK TO A REASONABLE LIFE SYLE.

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