GAO Details Army FMTV Fail

GAO Details Army FMTV Fail

Updated: With comments from Oshkosh Defense VP Andy Hove.

Here is the latest on the ongoing saga that is the Army’s effort to buy a truck. The Government Accountability Office (GAO) released its full finding on what it says was a flawed competition for the Army’s Family of Medium Tactical Vehicles (FMTV) that awarded the $3 billion contract to Oshkosh over competitors BAE and Navistar.

GAO says the Army made two mistakes. First, that Oshkosh does not have all the needed tooling and equipment, such as welding robots and big machines to stamp metal parts, to fashion the truck’s components. The Army claims their understanding of the contract language was that the builders didn’t have to have all the machinery currently installed in their factories, rather that they just had to demonstrate they could buy what they didn’t already have. GAO says: “Oshkosh’s proposal identified more than 100 items of key tooling and equipment that were not on hand.”

The second flaw, GAO says, was that the Army evaluated Navistar’s past production performance as good/low risk instead of excellent/very low risk; although both Oshkosh and BAE got the same rating as Navistar in that category. GAO says the Army’s documents fail to provide any evidence why Navistar should have been given a lower rating.

GAO said the Army should reevaluate whether all three competitors meet the “key tolling and equipment element in a manner consistent with the terms of the solicitation.” And, that it should conduct a new evaluation of Navistar’s past performance. Following this reevaluation, GAO says the Army should make a new selection decision.

For its part, Oshkosh claims the GAO’s findings actually support the Army’s decision to award it the FMTV contract because GAO didn’t challenge Oshkosh’s proposed price, which is $440 million lower over the life of the contract than that of BAE, nor did it challenge Oshkosh’s capability and experience to build the trucks. Oshkosh contends that its lower price offering should be given greater weight than many other factors; indeed the Army’s solicitation said price was as important as the capability to build the trucks in determining the eventual outcome.

Updated:

DOD Buzz spoke with Andy Hove, vice president of Oshkosh Defense about GAO’s findings. We asked Hove how Oshkosh was able to come up with a bid that was $440 million less than competitor BAE. “The army felt that we could have a lower price because we took a more aggressive approach to manufacturing much more material in house than the other competitors. They had much more sub-subcontracting of simple automotive components that we did.” When you can build every individual piece or component, Hove said, “it puts you in a significantly different negotiating position than when your only other alternative is to go out and buy it.”

On the lack of needed tooling and equipment: “It was an inaccurate statement to state that we had all of the tooling, which we didn’t and we never claimed to.” GAO was right to say that the Army should correct that part of its assessment, he said. Since the contract was awarded, Oshkosh has acquired much of the needed tooling and can readily acquire what it does not have.

Even if the Army changes its evaluation of Oshkosh, by lowering its evaluation of tooling and equipment in the assessment matrix contained in GAO’s report, the company still comes out equal to BAE in capability, Hove said. Oshkosh still beats BAE on price, by $440 million. “Would you as a taxpayer want the re-evaluation of those two very narrow issues to result in the taxpayers having to pay over $400 million for the same truck?”

On the claims that Oshkosh lacks the means to design the FMTV’s armored cab, a counterclaim which GAO threw out: “We build armored cabs for all of our military products. We build over a dozen different armored cabs. And by the way have designed them in much shorter time frames than we did for the FMTV.”

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The only relevant questions here are:
a) can Oshkosh REALLY do the job. The answer is probably yes. The FMTV is a damned truck.…..
b) how in the Crissake did BAE come out as the more expensive option?
c) what is the value of “assitance” Oshkosh is receiving, and hos does that effect the evaluation?

(My opinion, no inside info here) From what I’ve observed watching BAE and this competition the truth is stranger than fiction; BAE probably CANNOT compete with Oshkosh on price. My guess is that after a coke fueled spending spree buying companies, at some point the capital costs of that, plus the normal losses and expenses means they can’t get into a cost shootout with Oshkosh.

Good Evening Folks,

This is one story with no good guys. All three bidders played the political influence game, all lobbied the pentagon, all spend buckets of cash to buy congressional votes, all romanced General and Pentagon bureaucrats. Now they are pi**ing on each other pant legs and shoes.

Only a loser whines that it wasn’t fair.

The only one not at the table here is the American Soldier/Marine who will fight and die in these vehicles, nobody asked him/her what they though. Of course Soldiers and Marines are expendable, corporate profits are not.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

“My guess is that after a coke fueled spending spree buying companies, at some point the capital costs of that, plus the normal losses and expenses means they can’t get into a cost shootout with Oshkosh”

Could possibly be the funniest and truest comment on a military blog ever.

Respectfully,

Daniel Russ
Civilianmilitaryintelligencegroup​.com

“Of course Soldiers and Marines are expendable, corporate profits are not.“
Good one! I’m going to jack that line.

Byron Skinner don’t attribute to malice or greed what can be attributed to incompetence.

Nowhere have I seen anything that says Oshkosh can’t build the truck to spec, on time, on budget. The items that the GAO report do not seem to be critical reasons to NOT accept the low bid. I think someone at GAO needed to justify their job by finging something, anything to report.

…“finding” something, anything to report.

Proofread is your friend.

No big deal, fix it and get rolling.
Next!

You know I honestly wanted to know why you refer to people as neo-antebellums. Yes I do know what it means in the general sense and the Post Civil war sense. I even Googled it and found alot of references to old pre Civil war houses and of course some of your posts. Despite my knowing what it means, your logic in its use alludes me hence the question. I should have known better after reading your post over the last three years on this site, Defense Tech and Veteranstoday.

The problem with any possible discussion with you and your ilk is that you don’t want an honest exchange of ideas though from time to time you may condescend to discuss ideas that you have already closed the book on.

I will continue check out this site and other related to defense related news but its comments like yours and others who will keep me from post or even reading the comments attached to each story. Unlike some my military career doesn’t leave me a lot of spare time to wax poetic about how important my own thoughts are.

Mr. Skinner,

You are correct as usual. But don’t expect the wingnuts to understand humor, metaphors, puns or arcane references. Case in point– last summer they were all “tea baggers” until they discovered an entire culture outside their “think tanks”. “Oh my God Marge, tea bagging is a sexual thing. I thought it was that little bag you put in a glass of hot water.…those ‘liberals’ are ruining our language”.

Then they had to scramble and change the name to “Tea Partiers”. I think they could have saved themselves the trouble had they only come out of their comfortable flag draped bubbles and meet Americans outside of their churches and country clubs. The majority of Americans of all persuasions and colors don’t agree with them, and a majority of Americans still get their facts from factual sources as opposed to wingnut AM talk radio and Glenn “crybaby” Beck and a host of other homophobics and yes, racists. (I have learned from “conservatives” that if you put anything in quotation marks that makes it suspect.)

Liberal is just a point of view. Not an epithet. However, members of “conservative think tanks” are not scholars, they are bloggers and writers who are paid for an exact point of view, not independent “thinking”. Too many of them are cowards that call for wars they won’t volunteer for themselves. Their minions sit around all day and surf the internet looking for succor and solace ( Visual: “conservatives” running to the dictionary) in a political party’s point of view that grows smaller by the day.

It’s comical to see “conservatives” get upset when people call them on their hypocrisy and plagiarism.

Finally, I really wish this great site was dominated by policy discussions and facts versus the drunken anti-Obama anti liberal screeds that have no basis in fact and are not germane to the discussion at hand.

Respectfully,

Daniel Russ
Civilianmilitaryintelligencegroup​.com

PS– Visit my site and read the article about Dylan Furgeson, a 23 year old Warrant Officer who is one of the youngest pilots to fly both the CH-47 and the AH-64 and is in southern Afghanistan.

Good Evening Scott,

You asked a question and I gave you my answer. Those are the “facts” debate them if you chose, it appears that though that you chose not to.

Daniel. I’m not really comfortable with labeling all conservatives as the rabble of beer swilling, crack heads that we call “Tea Baggers”, who for twenty buck will stand on a street corner and yell and carry signs, wear Tim McVey T Shirts, for what ever winger cause shows up with the cash. I know many sincere, serious minded Conservatives that want nothing to do with the Tea Baggers or Minutemen and are deeply offended by conservatives who parade for the TV cameras.

There are defensible positions for Conservatives on most of these defense issues but most chose to not to take them.

One over riding though that keeps coming back to me is that the excess spending on defense projects over the post WW II era appear to be a major contributor to the decline of the American middle class.

The upper end of the middle class as conservatives are willing to point out prospered in post war America and became members of the wealthy upper classes, but the majority that composed the middle and the emerging bottom of the middle class fell backwards into an overly educated working class that is under utilizing Americans human/labor resources.

I find it amusing that conservatives love to be critical of income redistribution when it comes to social programs, but are indifferent to the declining tax rates and tax breaks that have been bestowed on the wealthy “investor class”.

It is to America’s discredit that an earned income is taxed higher then an unearned income, that money “gambled” in hedge funds that support no economic activity or create job one are enterprises to big to fail but the guy working for a paycheck to support a family can take the economic brunt of this severe recession.

While at the same time it is this working class that provide the men and women who serve and die in our armed forces, while the wealthy classes don’t have time for such foolishness.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

Enough with the name calling! Flinging around allegations of “racism” or “racist” and other immature name calling on a site devoted to defense policy and acquisition? Take that somewhere else.

Here is my experience:

In the Marines my job allowed me to drive the MTVR and LVS (both oshkosh trucks) — They are great but would not last a second in an IED attack.

I have built the RG33 CAT I and CAT II (BAE vehicles) — and it should be known that the BEA product will likely be FAR superior to the Oshkosh variant. That is what BAE does — they build ballistic quality vehicles — Oshkosh is more of a dominant commercial vehicle producer with a large hand in the commercial side of the defense market (look at the MTVR and LVS) …

RG33, Samil 50 — 120’s, Casper range of vehicles werwe all designed for mine protection, ballistic threats anc can eaily be upgraded/armoured to counter IED’s.….….…

USMarine430 makes a few really good points based on his or her training and experience. I am grateful as the musings here started off with very negative comments that were more about attacking individuals rather than rendering opinion concerning the new truck.

The point I a want to make is the whether the vehicle can survive an IED attack or not is moot. The most important aspect is saving the lives of the warfighters. If the truck stays inservice as nothing more than a material delivery system, the modular design of the crew cab can and should be as armored as possible and complete with at least a 4 point harness system. There are no easy victories or answers in combat. Military, martial forces, intend to go into harms way, there can be no war without causilities. Even peacetime has its warfighters that are targeted. I still believe that Oshkosh’s experience in the commercial vehicle give them the edge in the medium to heavy duty truck catagory. Especially if they deliver the product at a lower price.

In response to USMarine430, the up-armored versions of the MTVR (“7-ton”) have performed exceptionally well in Al Anbar. I can recall incident reports where an MTVR drove over double-stacked AT mines or were run into by suicide VBIEDs and the passengers/crew were uninjured. In at least one suicide VBIED attack, the truck suffered no major damage and drove away from the scene. Given a choice, I would ride in an MTVR instead of a UAH HMMWV any day/any time.

There’s a nice article that encompasses this over at National Defense Magazine, titled:

“Tension over industry protests boils over as companies experience ‘amazing success’ at overturning Pentagon contract awards”

http://​www​.nationaldefensemagazine​.org/​b​l​o​g​/​L​i​sts...

This current FMTV issue is just part of a larger problem. We can argue about whether it’s whiny contractors, incompetent evaluators, dirty politics, all three, or just the way it has to be. But argue we should; without some conflict on this issue to bring it to light, we’ll never improve.

I see the rest of the exchange got deleted with the exception of this rant Mr. Russ. As usual it is filled with more insane liberal ranting and hollow cries of “racism” to shield yourself from any criticism. Is that the best you moonbats can do? Pathetic.

Most phrases have some sort of sexual meaning these days. It was your beloved liberal media who came up with the “teabaggers” label for protesters and used it as much as possible like a bunch of giggling school children.

Perhaps you liberals should take your own advise and step out your houses to meet some real Americans rather than imaging everybody is some Obama-fanboy who wants to slash the military budget. I live in a blue state yet I know plenty of conservatives here, and many aren’t fond of the job Obama has been doing, nor am I. A declining viewpoint? The facts indicate that far more Americans identify themselves as “conservative” over “liberal” these days, and Obama and congress are going to see firsthand how quickly the country can turn on them for poor policy. Yet up until the bitter end, you and your ilk will imagine that everybody wants this awful healthcare bill passed with the “public option” added back in.

Those conservative think tanks you are constantly whining about are far more scholarly and informative than any such liberal “think tank” which usually consists of some bloggers with absolutely no understanding of government or security. It must enrage you that Heritage and others have an opinion that actually matters unlike whatever you read.

Playing the racist card again isn’t going to work Russ, and you can whine about people like Rush Limbaugh all you want, but like it or not the 1st Amendment isn’t there to only work in favor of you liberals. The level of your hypocrisy is simply astounding. It is as if you literally forgotten the past years of clueless liberals whining and holding protest signs about “BusHitler” and the EVIL!!! Dick Cheney.

Naturally you liberals try to defend your shallow thinking by trying to characterize all of us as either rednecks or upper class Wall Street bankers, but unfortunately the reality isn’t in your favor.

Between you and Byron who seem to share the same brain, this grate site already has enough liberals promoting defense cuts through whatever means they can. You rapidly dismiss any foreign threats, and are the reason we can’t build enough new aircraft and ships. Yet you claim to be the ones supportive of the troops. And yet it is the nutjobs among the the far-left who under a thin layer of supposed “care” think themselves better than our soldiers. It is not the far-right bogyman you have created who invents excuses for our enemies…

Why are both of you so afraid of defending the foolish cuts you propose to the point where you would rather just rant and whine about us conservatives for not thinking that Obama knows best.

Yup, they can go hire a bunch of brand new engineers for less money and make all the same mistakes over again, end up costing what BAE bid and ten years down the road people just say “contractors s__k”. Then those brand new engineers are too expensive and you can lay them off and go find another bunch of suckers. Because the Government goes and awards the contract to another company.

Maybe I will go on a speaking tour of engineering schools and let them know what really confronts them in this business. Then they can go into Civil Engineering and be valued when they get to be 50 instead of thrown out like yesterday’s trash. FU

Why don’t They Give The TRoops samples to uise to see which is best. Senators, congress don’t know squat.

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