Predator Intercepts No Big Deal

Predator Intercepts No Big Deal

Dear readers. I’ve been out of circulation for most of the last two weeks, coping with a family medical problem and cherishing the holidays once we got some very welcome good news. I hope you’ve noticed our newest addition to the Buzz firmament: Manu Sood, editor of www​.8ak​.in. As he explains on his website, 8ak “stands for ‘8 Arms of Knowledge’ and comes from the ‘spider’ that was written to trawl the net for news. 8ak is India’s first newspaper for the Defence (Defense) Sector and covers all military/armed forces news from the Army, Navy and Airforce.” Manu’s copy will appear periodically.

Meanwhile, following this paragraph is a story I put together just before the holidays. I think it’s still very relevant. Almost everybody picked up the Wall Street Journal’s story about the gap in the Predator’s security but very few noticed this authoritative rebuttal from the man who should know as much or more than anyone else about whether this really was a serious security flaw. After all, as the WSJ reported, the US military has known about this “weakness” since Bosnia…

The head of Air Force ISR — the guy who oversees Predator training and equipping — says that the Predator data that was broadcast in the clear and intercepted by bad guys in Iraq did not have “significant impacts” on US operations.


That’s what Lt Gen. David Deptula told my colleague Steve Trimble over at Flight Global.

“Nothing is compromised. I want to get information out to the joint forces on the ground, you follow me? If someone does pick [the video feed] up and they don’t know the context of how the information is being used, what’s the compromise?” Deptula told Trimble.

Overall, Deptula said, deploying and using Predators in greater numbers provided important information of great use to troops, benefits that far outweighed any weaknesses resulting from intercepted data.

“There’s an insatiable demand to get information out to folks on the ground,” Deptula told Trimble, “and the way you do that is maximizing the number of systems that can provide the information and then rapidly equipping folks with the receivers to pick it up.”

And, the UAV operators and ground troops developed new tactics to prevent the enemy from using intercepted signals.

“There is a balance between getting the information out and the risk that you’re taking that a potential adversary might pick it up,” he says. “But you have to be inside the signal area that’s being transmitted [to intercept the signal], and in many cases that’s very small.”

Personally, I cherish the picture of some Taliban, Al Qaeda or AQI guys picking up the feed just as they realize the picture they are watching is the same one being used to guide the missile heading straight for them.

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This article screams for some journalistic “look at the forest rather than the trees” comments. Maybe I need to open a new site of my own??? Anyway — isn’t The Real Story the fact that the common man cannot get to the UPLINK???? The story hints around at the idea that the bad guys could act on the intercepted video signal, but it does them no good.

Good Morning Colin,

First off Colin I hope that your family crisis was resolved in the most favorable manner and that you managed to wind down a little over the holidays.

On to the Predator story. I’m not sure of what “Charles Houston” is saying, but if he means “It don’t mean nottin’” I agree.

As I understand the story, these events happened in Iraq in the 2004 era, were discovered in 2006 on captured laptops and have been dealt with. The Predators never had any real incubation period before being sent into a combat theatre so I would assume that there were bound to be some problems, If this is the only one Predators was a very successful first variant of a new weapons platform. The problem(s) have been resolved. End of story.

What may be more telling here is that none the “Terrorists” (for lack of a better name) in Iraq couldn’t make any operational use of the images, it appears they didn’t know what to do with it.

I’m sure that by now one of the groups that were operating in Iraq at the time would have claimed some “victory” or whatever for this leaked data, none have.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

Byron — Actually, my commnet does mean something. It means that someone used common sense and encrypted the uplink. And they left the video unencrypted so that it would be far simpler and more reliable to use.

And the bad guys have no use for the images — unless they could use it to improve camouflage. One hopes that they already know what their stuff looks like! I would worry that they could use the images to make themselves harder to spot but it is a reasonable tradeoff. The far bigger worry would be that some patrol could not get the imagery since they had forgotten to change their key!

Why would the bad guys not have use for these images?

If they recognize the image as one of their safe-houses, doesn’t that tell them it’s time to abandon it?
If they know the location is a trap to entice US soldiers, doesn’t it tell them it worked and the ambush is good to go?

Seems like the people responsible for ensuring video was encrypted are now trying to pooh-pooh it to avoid responsibility. An internet-savvy high school kid could have added the encryption, even in a space and
power constrained platform.

Good Afternoon Charles Houston,

I don’t disagree with you first statement, there was a problem and by reasoning there wee no newer videos on those laptops it would be an indicator that the glitch/problem was identified in 2004 and corrected. Be the problem encryption or band with is beyond the scope of this discussion.

Your concern in the second statement you made is at this time irreverent since the US now has the operational ability on UAV’s to remove foliage from its still and video images, which as I mentioned in an earlier post has provide what is being called Predator Porn, hiding in the bushes is no a good option of concealment.

Since I mentioned Predator Porn in a post a while ago, I’ve been told that Army Psych Ops has shown interest in my idea of printing up some of the images (like sports trading cards, with names and stats, they have to exclude any images that have young boys are either recognizable or not) packaging three or four with a sweet and handing them out in the villages near where the images were made.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

Byron,

Thank you for your kind words. I’ll just say thank goodness for good mothers-in-law and for fine Australian wines and ports, fortified by the best New Zealand drops…

Do you think General Deptula, the one responsible for this, is likely to say it is a big deal?

PGP can type but doesn’t know much about military operations. Perhaps he could listen to those of us who have decades of it? Yes encryption is easy but the worry you have is that some patrol out there would be in some isolated fire base, and would be tired and forget to change their key. So the encrypted video is flowing down but they can’t see it. Far better to make it error proof by not encrypting it, even at the price of the bad guys getting to see video of miles of empty roads. And then flashes of them.

How would CharlesHouston know about pgp, random speculation?

DISA has required link encryption for a long time, most military radios including EPLRS and Link 16 are fully encrypted. Obviously there’s problems with people not rolling over crypto keys, but much bigger problems not using crypto at all.

Lot of emphasis on downplaying this so it doesn’t look bad. It really is bad.

We currently encrypt supply and maintenance data, but do not encrypt operational data. This is much worse than it looks.

Boys Howdy! What a thread! The issue has several directions one could take to decide if the compromise of the video data is critical or not. The first would be if the “Bad Guys” could use the data “Real Time” to effect change or notify a specific target. This in itself does not pose a significant issue since one would have to have a really good idea which UAV they are receiving data from and where the bird is specifically orbiting which is the GPS data and should be all in the encrypted comm link (I hope?) . One has to also consider the lines of communication as very minimal which the current theater of operations and low tech for the most part unless they are using Satcom which I darn sure hope we are monitoring and then we can use that data against them anyways. Oh please ET, Phone Home. LOL.

The second issue which is the more critical over time is the “Bad Guys” can use the data to learn from and gather intelligence on our tactics (if we are truly using any sort of real tactics other that Poke and Hope). The data can be used, as one person said to future their ability to camo, enhance route determination and overall training for new personnel. The third is a technical issue which encryption brings to any data link which is overhead, reduction in speed (delay in uplinks and downlinks) and processors, memory and overall weight that would be added to the aircraft which would be required to perform the encryption and decryption efforts. In know the Air Force and other Three Letter agencies do not what to consider this but if they were a bit closure to the “game” instead of 6000 miles away in a comfortable chair while the average grunt eats dirt and sand 7 days a week then these issues above would be easily resolved. There would be very littler delay in communications and data links, less Sats to us which cost the tax payers HUDGE bucks. They would also be ability to understand and appreciate the theater of operations more.

Not a simple issue overall, but one that needs to be addressed sooner than later and if this issue has even a minute possibility of cost a Good Guys life then someone better step up to the plate and FIX it Yesterday. This is truly NOT Rocket Science and when I hear that we are spend billions on cleaning the atmosphere and proving other counties with money because they can’t handle there own economies we really need to rethink our priorities and think of saving American live.

Sounds like a good idea.

So these things send out a constant stream of video, how bloody easy to triangulate the RF signal and blow it out of the sky by a proximity explosion.

Since they went through the trouble to get it, the Bad Guys *do* probably have a use for these images. Otherwise they wouldn’t have been interested. I reckon.

Gentlemen; Lest you forgotten that Generals are infallible and not subject to questioning by underlings.We have no problem because the general said so!

I would consider that if I was an Underling, but since I am NOT and I pay their Salaries I do NOT have to agree with their politically motivated bias. Since the Constitution also gives, or more precisely demands that I question our countries leadership and military then I MUST, especially when I KNOW they are WRONG and are making life and death decisions that are WRONG. I have worked the Intelligence world for many, many years and have seen the good of it and the worst of it. I was in East Germany before the wall went up and on the West German border doing a mission when the wall came down. I am a HUGE proponent of the UAV systems at all levels and all sizes and configurations.

I don’t mind loosing a drone in place of a life. Since the Air Force is continuously asking for Billions to build more manned aircraft then I KNOW that their priorities and motivations are VERY misplaced. I do know and see the need for air superiority overall but the cost should be measured by the threat and overall need. NOT what are the Coolest, Latest and Greatest TOYs. Another issue I have is why we are spending large dollars on training and using Air Force Officers to fly these drones since this currently is accomplishes in other countries as well as the US Army at the enlisted ranks and most high school flunkies can fly simulators better than a 45 year old officer whose agility and spectral concepts are way out dated. Color me stupid, but again this is NOT Rocket Science but more of a political nightmare which is costing US troops lives on a daily basis.

What’s truly amazing about this series of rants is that most of you don’t have any clue about what you you are ranting about. What Deptula said is partially correct, given that he he a pilot leading and intel organization, however, once you’ve intercepted the video feed, it’s too late. If you’re the enemy on the screen, you’re watching yourself being tracked and targeting. End of story, if the platform happens to be the Reaper, you’re going to die. If it’s the an unarmed Pedator, someone is targeting an Apache helo or fighter on your position.
Say goodnight, Gracie!

What is amazing is some would presume that the person who was doing the intercept was even in the area of the bird. Hell, one could be in another continent making this intercept. So that would make you the one who has NO clue. Such narrow mindedness is why we (the US) is in such a disastrous state of affairs.

He who presses the last button wins. Anonymous

This is very easy work with us or we take everything Home!

The Female People that control the Predator Intercepts, do a great job, and I love them for coming to help end this stupid war with all the nut’s, we are fighting.

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