Our Call: Iran on Brink

Our Call: Iran on Brink

Predicting the end of a regime, especially one led by ruthless and wily survivors, always poses great risks to the prophet of doom. But the Iranian regime meets almost all of my indicators for the end of a government.

First, there are persistent reports that some of the security forces are refusing to use lethal force against their compatriots. On top of that, several news accounts have said that members of the security forces have been forced to surrender to crowds. One particularly noteworthy example had security forces “cowering” as angry crowds confronted them in the capital.

Then there are the number of senior officials the government is clearly forced to arrest out of a sense that it has lot control. When you are arresting

The Financial Times reports today that the regime has arrested “hundreds of people” in another crackdown. The paper notes this includes, “Dozens of politicians and journalists… including Ali-Reza Beheshti, the senior adviser to Mir-Hossein Moussavi, the opposition leader, and Nooshin Ebadi, the sister of Shirin Ebadi, the Nobel Peace Prize laureate.”

And the unrest is rolling across the country, with violence reported in Tehran, Isfahan, and at least ifve other cities.

The Israelis must be watching all this with eagle eyes, hoping that the regime falls and is replaced by less jingoistic and less vicious types. I’m not willing to say the regime will fall in days, weeks or months, but it’s days look numbered.

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Weren’t a number of people predicting the end of the Chinese Communist regime during the Tiannenmen Square protests in 1989? You may well be right that this signals the (welcome) end of a particularly shitty regime, but it just might be convulsions that actually strengthen them. I’m prepared for either outcome.

Thank you, I have not been following events so closely because demonstrations went on in South Korea for a very long time and the government did not fall. Also demonstrations went of in Burma for a very long time and the government has not fallen. But the security forces losing their will to kill is a very good sign.
I have maintained that when ever the support for a government drops below 10% the security forces will lose their will to fight If you do not believe me check with Informationclearinghouse​.info where I wrote about this subject years ago. One could guess that the support for the regime was about 20% a number of years ago based on election return percentages for hardliners and the fact that many secular canidates were (are) not allowed on the ballot. But even though the 20% figure is not high when the opposition fights among itself as much as it fights with the government it does not make it so difficult to remain king of the hill by default.
Soon Iranians may have something that the US does not have, a representive democracy. The US only has the illusion of a representive democracy. It really has the best representives that money can buy.
In anycase I would like to infuriate some Hindus now and slaughter a sacred cow.
Representive democracy is not really a very great accomplishment in the first place. Especially a primative winner take all jerrymeandered district version of it like the US has rather than a proportional representation system that is practiced in continental European countries.
The whole system is based on the fraudulent claim that the winners have gained a mythical mandate from the voters in their district. When you think about it for just a little while you can understand that this is complete nonsense. If a represntive is elected by say 250,000 voters or a Senator by 2,500,000 votes. The voters had hundreds of thousands of different reasons for voting for these candidates. One person may agree with one canidate on 8 out of 10 issues but vote for the other candiadte because he/she agrees with the other candidate on her 2 hot button issues. Another candidate may think exactly the same way yet vote for the other candidate but he/she agrees with that candidate on more issues. This example even assumes that the voter knows the where each candidate stands on the issues. There is no way in hell that most voters no even a few of the positions for many of the candidates that they vote for. There is no way in hell that even if they knew the position of the candidates that most voters are infromed well enough about the myriad of issues facing the government that they could reasonably be expected to know what is in their self interest.
Furthermore there is the question of whether or not voters should be expected to support a policy that may be against their immediate self interest but is in the interest of the general welfare. Are today’s voters smart enough to recognize either? Furthermore if a voter did want to be a responsible citizen how are they going to have the time to educate themselves when they have to work to make a living and in most cases care for thier families. In addition to that if they make the time how are they going to be able to wade through all the propoganda of special interest groups without having had some training in at least the basic concepts of that industry?
No in the final analysis voting is just a slower way to screw up what a dictator would have done screwed up sooner. The bottom line for a democracy is not that it pretends to give the masses a say in their exploitation but that dissedents will be allowed to beat dead horses long after the maggots are crawling out of them.
For example if an elected government decides to build a damn it is really only a democratic government if it allows dissedent groups to protest every step of the construction of the damn and even once it is finished allow the dissedent groups to push for the removal of the damn and maybe even the imprisonment of those who had the damn built if they think that fraud was used to get the funds for it appropriated. I know that this understanding of democracy is not the common understanding of democracy. But, the fact is most people live in a dream world, a land of illusions. They think that I am the deluded one. There is no way that one can prove it to the other.
I would like to thank all the members of the US military that helped me to figure this out. God knows that I could not have done it without them. They have protected and nurtured me and when I share the results of their work they get all pissed off at me. What a great way to say thank you. They are so odd. I wonder if they come across that way to everyone when they travel around the world.

FSB,

You may be right. Please note the careful caveats I attached. But at some point we have to try and predict the outcome of such convulsions. I didn’t think the Bush administration would decide to waste the diplomatic, human and financial capital it did in invading Iraq. But I have long been more adept at analyzing the behavior of foreign regimes than I have been with my own.

The democratic system is th eonly answer. It assures that we due not live under oppression (even though that is the way we are going). When you have one ruler you will have oppression and coruption at the expense of everyone (expect thoughs that are in power bank, coporations, and politicians). Thank God our founding fathers had the since to limit terms. We just have to take it one more step and limit number of time elected. Coruption is EVIL Once you have the money all you want is the power !

Hope you are right Mr. Clark. But that does not guarantee a non-radical regime as a replacement. If I recall correctly, the opponents of Ahmadinejad were still Islamic true believers. Then we cannot forget the religious clerics actually running things and the Revolutionary Guard that seems beholden to not much of anyone.

But suspect the border incursion a week or so ago in the Iraqi oilfield was designed to divert attention from Iranian domestic problems…hoping we would overreact. Would like to think the administration was smart enough to recognize that and not take the bait.

You according to about 5 books of the O.T. in Zech 12: 6 it says that all Muslims etc will be “KILLED” did you get that (Eccl 3:8) and ALL the nations, NO matter who they are they will be “DESTROYED” that GO UP “AGAINST” Jerusalem! So, that for ONE means all Muslims! (and others if they go against The Jews! Also lok at Zech 9:1–8 someone is going toget smitten down to the ground and killed! It will not be the Jews it will be those other than the Jews who exist to kill and destroy the jews and claim to be heirs of the Land and are NOT! You had better get a King james Bible and read the minor prophets from Hosea to Zechariah and see how many times it tells of the end of the Modern day Muslim! I lie not, God has already decreed it and it will be so! The land belongs to the Jew, it is Gods’ land He decreed it to Abraham and he shall have it. The Jews have it back since 1948 and God was instrumental in getting them abck to the land so.…they will NEVER leave it again. It is theres forever!! Got that! Pray for the “peace” of Jerusaalem!!!

On a brighter note, it is MY understanding that the “Supreme Court has said that they will take the case of B.H.O. aka Barry Sutero aka? We also heard that it is confirmed that mr. Sotero’s Transcripts from his college days have confirmed that he did IN “FACT” THAT Means FACT!!! that Mr. Sotero did receive funds to attend college as an Indonesian citizen, as a “foreign” Student! GOT IT!!! That means that Mr. Sotero/Obama is NOT our legal president!!! He lied to use his name is really Barry Sotero! Draw your own “prejudgiced judgments if you are bling that is! I draw mine based upon the facts and I have alwys believed that he was and has not been forth right with the facts!!!! Guess what that means!!! Someone is going to lie to make this go away!! Bet!!!

Nick, nice hit on the article but one thing you miss in all that the democratic systemof Govt is a form that NEVER lasts as a govt i.e. Greece and several others. Actually there are only TWO types of govt’s that will/do work provided theyare kept! One is the “Republican” form of govt! That form (we) have/had is based upon the “Word” of God (KJV BIBLE) and never changes (Heb 13:8) But they other is a theocratic govt w/ a “King” thatis a righteious King such as King James of England 1603 to 1628? But as long as a righteous king is on the throne you have the best forms of govt. But peole have to keep it or it will be lost as it is now doing! A Democracy is a govt that starts out good but because the word demo=word and cracy =people thus the word of the people is prevalent and as people change so does the govt. What was once abortion and murder is now just life planning. What was once teen p.g. is now just having fun and making a small error,etc. Men change, God never changes ! Homer

Curt — It’s a representative Republic — no democry…

It is not a republic. It only pretends to be a republic. It is an empire that should be slain.

If this in fact a true fact please expose yourself and endorse this submission and set the record straight for the people to correct this oversight and get back on track!

No one thinks about the fact that the Iranians do have a much higher educated population than their neighbors the Iraqis have. They look down on the Iraqis because they know that fact. But..The Iranians see and hear of them celebrating in the streets about their new freedoms and that alone makes them want the same things.They feel they deserve those freedoms.

oh come on…

Do ANY western news agencies have access to iran? I saw only 1 man, he was arabic, but he spoke perfect English..wats REALLY going on there? I wanna see the regime IMPLODE, but don’t count on it..the Republican Guard has the guns, and people with the guns usually win..

Daniel, nicely said.
John

One more small point.

I started my own military culture and history blog about seven months ago and linked to DoD Buzz from day one. I have to say that I have enjoyed the reports here, and the discussions even more. Of course no comment thread on any blog these days ever goes without someone spitting out pre-chewed talking points. But for the most part I have enjoyed the real discussions, the opinions of actual combat veterans, the technical expertise, and frankly the actual old fashioned nose-for-the-news reporting that goes on. I think it’s a real treasure and I would miss it if it were not around. From time to time I have been intemperate and insulted people and for that I apologize. I don’t mind arguing. I grew up the son of Jewish immigrants, one who was in Auschwitz, and one who served in the US Army Air Corps. We fought until it was time to eat. Then we fought with our mouths full. I know deeply, that we all here still have so much to be grateful for.

That all said, I hope 2010 brings happiness and prosperity and peace to all of you, especially our troops. And Colin, Manu, Kevin et al. citizen journalists who do an incredibly good job.

Happy New Year to everyone.

Respectfully

Daniel Russ
Civilianmilitaryintelligencegroup​.com

The Iranian people have to be admired. They overturned an oppressive regime in favor of a new form of government. A generation later, they are again restive over an abusive power structure and are doing something about it, in the face of incarceration, torture and death. I wish them luck but I don’t have any illusions about the opposition acting to the USA’s best interests. They are, as they should be, acting in their own. Good for them. If only the Iraqi’s had wanted a just government as much as Iranians do.

really 2 posts ago it was a democracy, now its an empire maybe you need a civics class so you can grasp what your talking about!! Do you even know the difference between a democracy and a republic

Oh I am so hurt that I would have quit righting comments. But the applause was so loud I decided not to. I am sure that will make some people happy.
Happy New Year to all of the people that I like that are not criminals.

I think that Iran has been playing this “smart” the past several months by not simply beating the hell out of these protesters and putting this down by force. If they must end this by force, I have little doubt that they won’t be able to do so. The Revolutionary Guards and other military units are no doubt trained for this.

These blogger and internet junkies being accused of “leading a revolution” aren’t a match for the more dedicated Iranian security and military forces.

Good Morning Colin,

Sadly I find that I must disagree with you on Iran. Although there have been some large and vocal demonstrations of late, by the Greens, they really don’t mean nottin’, as we use to say.

There is no indication of any overall displeasure with either the civil government or the Islamic Republic as forms of governing Iran among the majority if Iranians. I might agree that there is some unhappiness with the major players of the civil government and even the ruling Mollahs of the Islamic Republic but they are only temporary players and will by one means or another leave the scene.

A couple of articles in todays WSJ deals with this issue. The counter pro government demonstrations and the governments round up of top ranking grad students in the country.

The foreign press will denounce the demonstrations and the students will find ways out of Iran and into the US and the EU. It always seems to work out that way Colin. The bright side of all this is those grad students that are being removed for the Universities and who will find their way out of Iran are they very people who would be able to make Iraq a regional nuclear power.

The Iranian governments reaction is starting to have hints of the Cultural Revolution in China during the late 1950’s through the 1960’s and Mao’s death.

Regardless of US propaganda the Chinese Cultural Revolution did do what Mao and his supporters intended for it to do. Today almost 35 years after Mao’s death, he still controls the CCP and a half billion dedicated peasants are devoted to the Thoughts of Chairman Mao.

One thing of interest is that for British nostalgia fans of 19th.Century Colonial Office and the 20th. Century MI6 and of mid east colonial intrigue, Egypt, Palestine, Gertrude Bell, T.H. Lawrence, Agatha Christie, Iraq, etc. the UK, they seems to be having a hand in what is happening today in Iran, are having a good day of it all. Money infused local uprisings, maybe an assassination or two, ah the good old days.

Another Fleet Street Revolution, the good old days Colin.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

This related directly to Iran.

First, it’s sad to see that the US national media establishment is no longer even pretending anymore. Once we had actual journalists who did actual investigations of matter that affected all of us and spoke truth to power. Today we have lipstick and eyeshadow and face-lifted talking heads who report of the least important infotainment fluff one can imagine. Imagine if we actually pursued reporting on the Iranian revolution or even what goes on behind closed doors of our own government with the same conviction that Nancy Grace gives to pillory people before they have even had a trial.

No, even the Gray Lady, the once heralded New York Times (still an important newspaper) gave us Judy Miller who found evidence for WMDs in Iraq that later turned out to be utter bullshit. When did we discover she had traded lies for access to power? After the invasion began. And Jayson Blair who cooked up every fact that won him lauds and lucite statues from journalism organizations. And now the NYT reads twitter feeds ( as if we couldn’t do that by ourselves) and quotes “unnamed sources”.

Today, Iran is ripping itself apart and the only journalists are the Iranians themselves, tweeting and Instant Messaging while they duck the bullets of those that guard their 14th century government. Imagine how much better off everyone would be if we had a news media worth a shit. Imagine how few unnecessary wars we would be involved in if actual soldiers in the field got the same bandwidth as a man who can whack a ball into a tin cup a quarter mile away and cheats on his wife.

Respectfully,

Daniel Russ
Civilianmilitaryintelligencegroup​.com

I will believe it when I see it.

OPINE
The unrest, not reported nearly at all by the MSM, is really wide spread. A cursory review of the Net News, adding all the various sources together shows this.
What I think:
Unrest, riots, overthrow locally, leads almost directly to a need for the CENTRAL guvmnt to show its hand. Translated, this means a need to create an external threat. Ideally this is Iraq, the old nemesis. Further on, Israel gets the nod. Add to the mix, the new rockets recently tested, and a crude Nuc, and we have the makings for a serious conflict.
bt
Iran cycles of change is about due. The Shah, the various Ayatollahs, and lately the Irksome, unshaven President, all have or are about to pass. Cycles come and go, but what the OBNA does not grasp, is that the world is compressed into the range of solid fueled rocket stages. Our Indian Ocean fleet stands real close.
end

Good Morning Daniel,

Although I’m in agreement with you on the media I see no solution. As I see it, first government controls content of the new period. All new organizations need access to governments at all levels from school boards and government at all levels are quite aware of this.

So you have three options. The media can be government owned or controlled as in most countries, the problem here I would think is obvious. The media can be publicly owned such as all of our TV outlets and major daily news papers, of which management/editors have to be be constantly looking over their shoulders not only at government but also stock holders and boards. Then there is the privately owned TV stations and newspapers which reflect the personal political/religious/cultural ideology of the owner.

In reality Daniel the only one who has freedom of the press is the guy that owns it. Everyone else does just what they are told or are looking for a job.

On your statement that Iran is ripping itself apart, I just can’t agree. I see no visible leadership for the Greens either in country or in exile or the Greens offering any alternate political/religious philosophy to that of the current authorities who run and control Iran.

Regardless if we in the west like it or not repression can be successful in running a government, re. China 1998, Tiananmen Square. It does work.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

If the Iran government sees itself falling, I expect the following to happen. Expect the crazy people bombers to attack the 5th fleet and Isreal with a dirty bomb. A few Silkworm missles attacking the oil tanker traffic lanes. Something major in Iraq like a chemical attack. One last message for the US Navy to content with.

If the Iranian givt feels it will fall, they will most likely try to evoke an outside attack to draw thier population back in against a common foe, many government have done this in the past and it (even though short time)usually works. The biggest concern is thier weapons and nuclear facilities which should be hit to prevent any of it from being over taken by a new unstable govt or taliban during the turmoil. It would not supprise me if certain countries already have contingency plans to pull off these raids amid the turmoil and keep it from happening, it would be the perfect time because each internal faction would be blaming the other rather than another country. Politicly we need to stay away from it, strategicly we need to use the advantage to disable them.

Wow! Obviously not all of the comments, but for some reason this topic really brought the lunatic fringe out of the woodwork.

Wow! Obviously not all of the comments, but for some reason this topic really brought the lunatic fringe out of the woodwork.

No…Curt needs to get back on his Med’s

yep, he’s right!

it’s hard to change the govmt in IRAN when candidates must be approved by the mullahs, with the “supreme leader” having veto power; also power to “nullify” legislation or court decisions. Do am little research on how IRAN govmt is organized, then come back & talk!
However, this is one of the best and most open discussions in the several years I have been following DODBUZZ!

YES, DEMOCRACY IS NOT PERFECT, but what would you substitute? Iran,s system. China’s, India’s, Canada’s rule of the French Canadians?

BOOMER, the Iranian government has already been making hostile rhetoric against the US, Israel and our allies over these past years. Ahmadinejad has even made a side-show visit to a university in the US to engage in a public conversation with the students. I see the Iranian government to be a ticking time-bomb.

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