Surface Navy Eyes Hybrid War

Surface Navy Eyes Hybrid War

The Surface Navy Association holds its annual conference this week here in the Washington, DC area. This year’s topic: hybrid warfare at sea. We’ll be eager to hear where the surface folks come down on what should be one of the biggest questions going forward as the fleet looks at hybrid fights in littoral waters: whether to build a large number of smallish multipurpose fast-attack craft or to continue to build the planned 55 or so hugely expensive Littoral Combat Ships (LCS) that is probably the wrong ship for the littorals.

We’ll also have a chance to hear from the inestimable Bob Work, formerly of the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, who has been locked away for the past year trying to inject some strategic sense into the Navy as an undersecretary. Those of us who cover the defense world still eagerly await — vainly perhaps — a naval strategist with the command of the topic to replace Work in the think tank ranks. Meanwhile, we’ll continue to read my former colleague Chris Cavas and the folks over at the Information Dissemination blog.

Of all the services, the Navy is most in need of some strategic guidance to help sort out its shambles of a shipbuilding plan and shake it out of its blue-water focus. For a good example of the latter, read this Proceedings article from September, where the author, Rear Admiral Terry Kraft, makes a convincing case for the greatness of aircraft carriers.


Now, large deck aircraft carriers are great and wonderful things; I’m not sure there are a lot of people arguing to the contrary. Problem is, the author doesn’t once address the actual issue that matters: how many large deck aircraft carriers does this country need?

Of course that would require a discussion of strategy, that is, matching resources to desired ends. It’s much easer to argue the merits of an individual tool than discuss how many and what kinds of tools you might need in the tool box; in this case, a warship with a new build price tag of around $13 billion a copy.

Stay tuned as we’ll be reporting from the SNA conference and hopefully we’ll hear somebody provide some analytically robust arguments for a future Navy battle fleet that includes plausible scenarios and realistic defense budget projections.

Until then, here is a better article from the current Proceedings, by Milan Vego, that actually gets into some hybrid/littoral war issues. He argues for abandoning the LCS at no more than 6 copies and instead building a “modest number” of 1,200– to 1,500-ton multipurpose corvettes and 400– to 500-ton fast attack craft. He also says the Navy should buy a “relatively large number” of 1,500– to 2,000-ton air-independent propulsion (AIP) submarines.

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Good Afternoon Folks,

A couple of problems here first is the LCS. The Navy will buy the LCS but the quantity will be determined by the price, at the current $450 million I would think no more the 25 hauls.

The US does need a “modest haul” in the 1,200 to 2,000 ton range, Corvette or Frigate Class and a fast attack boat to deal with situations like pyracy. The AIP Submarines forget it, we have the best nucs in the world, we don’t need a second tier submarine.

One tech issue to remember with China, they have yet to manage to build a marine gas turbine engine and must buy this critical product for the EU. The Chinese are lacking in the ability to build anything that would be remotely competitive with the LCS or the DD51 and some naval experts are saying that China is at least 50 years behind the US right now.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

The littorals are too big for what they were intended for period, but they are what the brass wanted. Slightly smaller versions of the hurricane class would be useful for coastlines, Reinventing the WW2 PT boats would be a major step foward as they could provide fire support ashore (close proximity) or take out large ships utilizing torpedos. Increasing the number of SWIFT boat units would also be very helpful. But they also have to increase the number of personnel trained to fight in coastal areas which means the ARMY needs to be included in this area of operation. And we most definately need smaller disel electric submarines to be able to operate in closer and shallower undetected. (the nucs need a lot of water under them to submerge and dont turn like a sports car either). But smaller ships and boats means lower ranking officers and senior enlisted to run them vice the 05’s and above now in play, so chances of doing the right thing go out the window because the brass is more interested in keeping the higher ups employed full time.

LCS=PUEBLO II. It is undermanned and under gunned. The small crew size won’t allow for proper damage control. Unless you’ve been there, you can’t imagine the fatigue that sets in during a deployment. Our adversaries know this. What would happen when one of these things is on a lone patrol near the Iranian or North Korean coast and is surrounded by suicide/homicide/patrol boats? The LCS will have air cover you say? OK, then why do we need a large surface combatant that costs half a billion that can’t operate independently?

We are courting disaster with these things. Buy more Burkes.

One of the main reasons for the cost of LCS has been the very high speed of the ships. A design that sized with a speed greater than 45 knots is naturally going to be rather costly. The FFG-7 class only had a speed of roughly 30 knots.

I think it is good to have a few high speed Littoral Combat Ships, but when it comes to numbers, perhaps we need something a bit slower and less costly. A higher level of firepower than a single 57mm gun might be nice too.

A massive ship with 1 tiny gun? Sorry but if you want to fight numerous enemies coming from all directions you are going to need at least 2 more 57mm guns (near the aft one on each side). At the moment all it takes is a single RPG round to the front gun and the LCS is essentially defenceless.

Assuming your opponent is gonna be coming at you in 20+ small, fast craft each with 2–3 RPG gunners on them, combined with a couple of suicide ram-boats an LCS (or 2) are not going to be able to deal with that many targets without suffering major damage.

At the very least they should bolt on a few gatling guns on the flanks to help defend against small targets (one on each corner of the deck at the rear for instance)

I personally like this ship concept but I agree that it is way underarmed to be operating independently. How about this:
Two more twin rapid fire cannon mounts on the stern corners plus a rapid fire twin mount forward, two twin GAU 30MM mounts, one for each side and several (6–10) dual 50 or mini-gun mounts around in strategic areas. Put a small surface to air /surface to surface missile cell in somewhere for protection against capital ships or large aircraft formations.
This weapons package would be radar/electro optical guided with as a backup but usually used in a manual fire configuration, bringing back the true guners mate sailor.
The deck guns are good for support and suppresive fire, the 30MM woiuld be a great direct suppression wepon and the smaller calibres are great for boat –to-boat work. The dual mounts on the cannons may be a little over kill but the Light weapon mounts should be either mini-guns or twin 50’s.
This would make a great litoral, anti-piracy platform.

THe Navy had the smaller “patrol boat platform” The PC’s built in the 90’s no sooner that they got done building them they pretty much abandoned the idea and gave some of them to the Coast Guard.

I have said for a long time that the LCS is a ship in search of a mission, for decades the Navy could not have given two sh-ts about “the litorals” but then in the late 90’s when they, the Navy was in search of a mission and blue water CV and amphib ops seemed to have less of a future the litoral were al the suddent his impotant do or die mission.

Any patrol boat that is going to be used for drug/pirate/traffic interdiction is stoill going to have to be a deep water capable hull. The patrol boats that were given to the Coast Guard were probably the right size but they are underarmed and can’t even begin to do anything for off shore bombardment or landing support.

F451

That is not has not been, is not and never will be the mission of the LCS.

“shore bombardment” and “landing support” are two misions the Navy has not done in any seriouxs way in 50 years and IMO will not ever do again.

The original 32 planned DDG-1000 were supposed to provide that shore bombardment and fire support and make up for the retirement of the Iowa class battleships. Unfortunately, we are only going to have three boats with that 155mm advanced gun system.

Back in the late 1970s we really should have continued the Mk.71 MCLWG which would have given us a modern 8 inch (203mm) gun that could have been fitted to various designs.

I love how the detractors of a thing will only talk about an ability or lack there of in Isolation. “Makes more sense to buy x-many F-A boats because the LCS is too expensive to buy enough b/c Littorals are too big.”

What you NEGLECT to either mention or understand is that from 1LCS you can launch multiple INEXPENSIVE armed Unmanned Surface Vehicles as well as Unmanned Underwater Vehicles.

Also, when it comes to covering 100’s of Sq. Miles of Littoral area, MULTIPLE SQUADRONS of FA boats couldn’t cover the area that a few of the Firescout UAVs launched fr/ 1 LCS could cover in a FEW HOURS.

1 LCS can cover far more Area & Missions sets than any # of FA Sqdrns & I haven’t even begun to scratch the surface of the LCS’s total Missions List.

Is the LCS much more expensive than the Navy anticipated.. yes, its their own fault they made multiple changes midstream.

But does its Force Multiplier effect still make it the hands down best option & worth every penny…? YES!

It can not credibly defend itself. I can posit a few scenarios where it would be as vulnerable to capture or sinking by a hybrid enemy such as Iran. PUEBLO wasn’t that long ago, but it seems the Navy leadership is willing to take the risk of another disaster. As for damage control, it lacks the manpower to take a serious hit and keep fighting with its one little gun.

For $400million+ we should expect a little more defense capability and resilience. DDG51s represent the best value for the money.

To correct my earlier comment, The class of patrol boats I mentioned is the CYLONE class (the USS Huricane being one of them). They are very efficient and sea worthy. They also have more armamnet than the littorals. They could easily be upgraded for more firepower as well. Imagine if you start with one of these as the base platform and cross breed it with an Apache helicopter, Abrams tank, or powered Howitzer weapons system. Technoligy already in plcae and effective. using this platform and approach you could easily get 5 of them for the cost of one littoral craft. Personaly I feel its a bad ideal putting all your eggs in one basket going into a combat zone, so what if a littoral can do all of these things, it’s still just one ship and a sitting duck in the water, especialy if it tries to go inland any distance which is where I would set up and wait for it. Smaller heavier armed working in unit craft to support each other is the only way to go. I would much rather see a number of these and more SWCC patrol boats being deployed into an area than one littoral and a escort ship.

By the way, the PC’s of the late 80’s and 90’s were armed with Harpoon and tomahawk missles. They were very fast but you got hammered to heck during high speed turns no matter how well you were strapped in.

wont be launching any fire scouts

Bommer,
You mean they weren’t armed with missiles. Those missiles in their canister launchers were way too big for a Cyclone class Patrol Coastal.

Not the cyclone, the pegasus patrol boats (hydrafoils) they were mounted at a 45 degree angle like on the Iranian, china’s, India’s and a lot of other countries coastal patrol boats. But the Cyclones are plenty long enough to support cruise missles as well.

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