Comments on: FMTV Contract Stays With Oshkosh http://www.dodbuzz.com/2010/02/12/fmtv-contract-stays-with-oshkosh/ Online Defense and Acquisition Journal Thu, 09 Feb 2012 14:55:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Timhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2010/02/12/fmtv-contract-stays-with-oshkosh/#comment-77086 Tim Tue, 20 Dec 2011 13:34:16 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=13043#comment-77086 You must talking about the M-ATV, because there aren't any OshKosh FMTV's in Afghanistan yet. You must talking about the M-ATV, because there aren’t any OshKosh FMTV’s in Afghanistan yet.

]]> By: Josephhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2010/02/12/fmtv-contract-stays-with-oshkosh/#comment-31498 Joseph Sat, 02 Oct 2010 01:14:04 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=13043#comment-31498 Oshkosh doesn;t have an e-coat system. They don't even have an assembly line like BAE. Oshkosh stall builds every truck they make for the military. Oh yeah and BAE is now Oshkosh's new supplier for the frame rails and trailers. Oshkosh doesn;t have an e-coat system. They don’t even have an assembly line like BAE. Oshkosh stall builds every truck they make for the military. Oh yeah and BAE is now Oshkosh’s new supplier for the frame rails and trailers.

]]> By: markhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2010/02/12/fmtv-contract-stays-with-oshkosh/#comment-28841 mark Thu, 05 Aug 2010 18:56:35 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=13043#comment-28841 There are many good points. However, Politics is always behind the decisions. The appropriations in congress are important to the army and the Wisconsin delegation was out in full force (democrats). The democrats hold the purse strings. The Texans are mainly republican and even the Texan democrats have no pull with the democratic controlled congress or white House. The Army had to switch the alliance to the democrats to get their mission accomplished. BAE manufacturing in Sealy have many advantages due to lower assembly costs in labor and other G&A expenses this is absolute fact. BAE has some higher costs in drive and chasis manufacturing sub-out that Osh Kosh does in house. However these mostly wash each other out. It wouldnt suprise many of us if OSHKOSK bought the BAE facility and continued making the trucks in Sealy Texas. Who knows overall but the facts are politics was key. There are many good points. However, Politics is always behind the decisions. The appropriations in congress are important to the army and the Wisconsin delegation was out in full force (democrats). The democrats hold the purse strings. The Texans are mainly republican and even the Texan democrats have no pull with the democratic controlled congress or white House. The Army had to switch the alliance to the democrats to get their mission accomplished. BAE manufacturing in Sealy have many advantages due to lower assembly costs in labor and other G&A expenses this is absolute fact. BAE has some higher costs in drive and chasis manufacturing sub-out that Osh Kosh does in house. However these mostly wash each other out. It wouldnt suprise many of us if OSHKOSK bought the BAE facility and continued making the trucks in Sealy Texas. Who knows overall but the facts are politics was key.

]]> By: matthttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2010/02/12/fmtv-contract-stays-with-oshkosh/#comment-26947 matt Sat, 26 Jun 2010 10:42:02 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=13043#comment-26947 amazing how much mis-information there is in the posts here. 1) the new trucks in country are all built by BAE. Oshkosh trucks haven't begun to ship. 2) BAE purchased S&S from Armor holdings and produces them in the same plate. not system integrators on this one. They are the OEM. 3) The BAE trucks are "always out for repair" -- interesting considering the BEA FMTV trucks are considered the most reliable Army trucks in history. No, I don't work for BAE. but I work a program that uses FMTV trucks. amazing how much mis-information there is in the posts here.
1) the new trucks in country are all built by BAE. Oshkosh trucks haven’t begun to ship.
2) BAE purchased S&S from Armor holdings and produces them in the same plate. not system integrators on this one. They are the OEM.
3) The BAE trucks are “always out for repair” — interesting considering the BEA FMTV trucks are considered the most reliable Army trucks in history.

No, I don’t work for BAE. but I work a program that uses FMTV trucks.

]]> By: markhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2010/02/12/fmtv-contract-stays-with-oshkosh/#comment-20853 mark Sun, 28 Feb 2010 07:02:13 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=13043#comment-20853 This won't happen. Oshkosh, no matter what promises have been made, will not be able to deliver quality trucks on time if they do not contract out work. When it comes to assembly they will be fine, its fabrication that is going to trip them up. Their biggest difficulty will be finding enough qualified machinists and welders to kick out the parts fast enough. I am almost certain that they WILL contract out work. This won’t happen. Oshkosh, no matter what promises have been made, will not be able to deliver quality trucks on time if they do not contract out work. When it comes to assembly they will be fine, its fabrication that is going to trip them up. Their biggest difficulty will be finding enough qualified machinists and welders to kick out the parts fast enough. I am almost certain that they WILL contract out work.

]]> By: markhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2010/02/12/fmtv-contract-stays-with-oshkosh/#comment-20852 mark Sun, 28 Feb 2010 06:52:56 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=13043#comment-20852 Your son is in BAE Systems' FMTV. BAE has the contract till the end of the year, Oshkosh hasn't even begun building yet. Your son is in BAE Systems’ FMTV. BAE has the contract till the end of the year, Oshkosh hasn’t even begun building yet.

]]> By: markhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2010/02/12/fmtv-contract-stays-with-oshkosh/#comment-20851 mark Sun, 28 Feb 2010 06:47:44 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=13043#comment-20851 Osh Kosh will be subbing and using vendor parts. If anybody believes that Osh Kosh can build this entire truck from top to bottom while at the same time meeting the contract deadline and quality standards, they are a moron and know absolutely nothing about these trucks. Osh Kosh will be subbing and using vendor parts. If anybody believes that Osh Kosh can build this entire truck from top to bottom while at the same time meeting the contract deadline and quality standards, they are a moron and know absolutely nothing about these trucks.

]]> By: Dylanhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2010/02/12/fmtv-contract-stays-with-oshkosh/#comment-20495 Dylan Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:11:28 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=13043#comment-20495 That looks exactly like a German Unimog. Hot damn! I am so happy both Oshkosh won the contract and so am I happy for the Army to be supplied with these mud chugging dirt dogs. I have friends and family working for Oshkosh and I know they will do the best they can for our troops. I also know I have driven Oshkosh M900 in the USAF and these are amazingly remarkable and capable vehicles. My best congrats to the boys back home in Oshkosh, WI home of the best overalls in the entire world Oshkosh B'Gosh. That looks exactly like a German Unimog. Hot damn! I am so happy both Oshkosh won the contract and so am I happy for the Army to be supplied with these mud chugging dirt dogs. I have friends and family working for Oshkosh and I know they will do the best they can for our troops. I also know I have driven Oshkosh M900 in the USAF and these are amazingly remarkable and capable vehicles. My best congrats to the boys back home in Oshkosh, WI home of the best overalls in the entire world Oshkosh B’Gosh.

]]> By: BOOMERhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2010/02/12/fmtv-contract-stays-with-oshkosh/#comment-20403 BOOMER Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:19:47 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=13043#comment-20403 Pat, I have been to all those plants and quite a few others, I know what the initial contracts say - how they get modified - and how the contractors get around them. There are not that many steel mills and such left in the US, even ALCOA buys its materials from overseas a lot of the time and the just cut and stamp it here. And a lot of DCMA personnel are spread too thinly to really cover thier areas. And I blame all of this on the Govt for not writing better contracts and employing enough personnel to manage them. Pat, I have been to all those plants and quite a few others, I know what the initial contracts say — how they get modified — and how the contractors get around them. There are not that many steel mills and such left in the US, even ALCOA buys its materials from overseas a lot of the time and the just cut and stamp it here. And a lot of DCMA personnel are spread too thinly to really cover thier areas. And I blame all of this on the Govt for not writing better contracts and employing enough personnel to manage them.

]]> By: clydehttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2010/02/12/fmtv-contract-stays-with-oshkosh/#comment-20391 clyde Mon, 22 Feb 2010 02:15:07 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=13043#comment-20391 we could still have george bush we could still have george bush

]]> By: clydehttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2010/02/12/fmtv-contract-stays-with-oshkosh/#comment-20336 clyde Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:50:48 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=13043#comment-20336 bae trucks suck way to go oshkosh bae trucks suck way to go oshkosh

]]> By: Truthhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2010/02/12/fmtv-contract-stays-with-oshkosh/#comment-20332 Truth Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:21:34 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=13043#comment-20332 I hope that oskosh does better they were at the brink of bankruptcy last year. Underbidding a contract 1% over the cost to build it to get it does not make your company sucessfull Remember that when we need those truck if they can not deliver. I help pay for these trucks with my tax dollar they 4sure better be there when our soldiers need them and keep them safe. Every body in life learns that half hearted attempts and any thing that is cheap is not going work for you when you need it you get out of something only what you put in it. I hope that oskosh does better they were at the brink of bankruptcy last year.

Underbidding a contract 1% over the cost to build it to get it does not make your company sucessfull

Remember that when we need those truck if they can not deliver.

I help pay for these trucks with my tax dollar they 4sure better be there when our soldiers need them and keep them safe.

Every body in life learns that half hearted attempts and any thing that is cheap is not going work for you when you need it you get out of something only what you put in it.

]]> By: Benhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2010/02/12/fmtv-contract-stays-with-oshkosh/#comment-20328 Ben Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:52:54 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=13043#comment-20328 Oshkosh will do a heck of a lot better than BAE! Oshkosh will do a heck of a lot better than BAE!

]]> By: Pathttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2010/02/12/fmtv-contract-stays-with-oshkosh/#comment-20298 Pat Fri, 19 Feb 2010 03:14:32 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=13043#comment-20298 Eng RG, you make a good point, but at the end of the day, the Army (and I will refer to them as the Big Army here) paid someone to manage their keystone program for them. Boeing and SAIC had no business ever being selected to act as the systems integrator for FCS. At the most basic level, the acquisition strategy the Army selected was flawed, and it ultimately caused its cancellation. So many of the most basic of systems engineering tenets were violated during program execution that the Army is truly lucky that they were able to spin out any technology from that program. Though the program is cancelled the first tech package is being spun out, procured and fielded to the Army's BCT's. I seriously hope that it's the best stuff ever, because the BCT's are going into the fight with this technology. Eng RG, you make a good point, but at the end of the day, the Army (and I will refer to them as the Big Army here) paid someone to manage their keystone program for them. Boeing and SAIC had no business ever being selected to act as the systems integrator for FCS. At the most basic level, the acquisition strategy the Army selected was flawed, and it ultimately caused its cancellation. So many of the most basic of systems engineering tenets were violated during program execution that the Army is truly lucky that they were able to spin out any technology from that program. Though the program is cancelled the first tech package is being spun out, procured and fielded to the Army’s BCT’s. I seriously hope that it’s the best stuff ever, because the BCT’s are going into the fight with this technology.

]]> By: Pathttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2010/02/12/fmtv-contract-stays-with-oshkosh/#comment-20295 Pat Fri, 19 Feb 2010 03:04:49 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=13043#comment-20295 Boomer, you and Gordon need to get out and see the manufacturing facilities that BAE has in Sealy, Tx, Cincy, Anniston, Al and York, Pa. On the point of access to manufacturing facilities, there might be a little embelishment there. With the Build America Act, all major defense contractors to required to buy USA products and raw materials, it's written in the contracts. Osh, BAE, and GD buy their steel and aluminum plate from US mills, and their vendors do to. As a gov employee buying major systems from BAE and GD, I visited the vendors and source the materials the whole way back to the mills. There is just not alot of stuff being manufactured at a third tier supplier. Plus to delivery products on DoD contracts, DCMA is in those 2nd and 3rd tier supplies inspecting the parts before they even get to major contractor facilities where BAE and Osh inspect it again. A well run program is a combo of efforts by both the gov and the contractor. If a bad product comes out, it is the fault of the contractor and the gov. Boomer, you and Gordon need to get out and see the manufacturing facilities that BAE has in Sealy, Tx, Cincy, Anniston, Al and York, Pa. On the point of access to manufacturing facilities, there might be a little embelishment there. With the Build America Act, all major defense contractors to required to buy USA products and raw materials, it’s written in the contracts. Osh, BAE, and GD buy their steel and aluminum plate from US mills, and their vendors do to. As a gov employee buying major systems from BAE and GD, I visited the vendors and source the materials the whole way back to the mills. There is just not alot of stuff being manufactured at a third tier supplier. Plus to delivery products on DoD contracts, DCMA is in those 2nd and 3rd tier supplies inspecting the parts before they even get to major contractor facilities where BAE and Osh inspect it again. A well run program is a combo of efforts by both the gov and the contractor. If a bad product comes out, it is the fault of the contractor and the gov.

]]> By: Pathttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2010/02/12/fmtv-contract-stays-with-oshkosh/#comment-20294 Pat Fri, 19 Feb 2010 02:44:06 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=13043#comment-20294 Jeff, so the factory that BAE owns in Sealy TX that has built the FMTV for the last 15 years should not be considered as "building a vehicle"? The fact that BAE builds the truck cabs and armor packages at a BAE factory in Cincy should not qualify as building a vehicle? BAE is not a systems integrator, the fact that they built from the ground up armored vehicles such as the Bradley, AAV, M113, M88, and trucks should point to them being a manufacturer. If you go to the Osh factory, there isn't a steel mill on the back lot that spits out steel plate, that eventually gets cut and bent into a truck frame. Then again, neither does BAE. So, no one is a true manufacturer in the sense that Ford used to be with iron ore going in one door and a Ford comes out the other end. Jeff, so the factory that BAE owns in Sealy TX that has built the FMTV for the last 15 years should not be considered as “building a vehicle”? The fact that BAE builds the truck cabs and armor packages at a BAE factory in Cincy should not qualify as building a vehicle? BAE is not a systems integrator, the fact that they built from the ground up armored vehicles such as the Bradley, AAV, M113, M88, and trucks should point to them being a manufacturer. If you go to the Osh factory, there isn’t a steel mill on the back lot that spits out steel plate, that eventually gets cut and bent into a truck frame. Then again, neither does BAE. So, no one is a true manufacturer in the sense that Ford used to be with iron ore going in one door and a Ford comes out the other end.

]]> By: Engineer RGhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2010/02/12/fmtv-contract-stays-with-oshkosh/#comment-20259 Engineer RG Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:56:53 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=13043#comment-20259 I am a contractor and have worked on the now canceled FCS program. I can attest to the layers of contractors adding up to unreasonable costs. We manufactured our product, sold it to a system integrator with no experience in our product, who sold the system to GDLS, who then supplied it to BAE. I would hate to see how many times our price was stepped on. I am a contractor and have worked on the now canceled FCS program. I can attest to the layers of contractors adding up to unreasonable costs. We manufactured our product, sold it to a system integrator with no experience in our product, who sold the system to GDLS, who then supplied it to BAE. I would hate to see how many times our price was stepped on.

]]> By: davehttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2010/02/12/fmtv-contract-stays-with-oshkosh/#comment-20248 dave Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:49:50 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=13043#comment-20248 When you do not vote for who won the white house..Your state will suffer for it.Look what as happen to NASA and BAE. When you do not vote for who won the white house..Your state will suffer for it.Look what as happen to NASA and BAE.

]]> By: Gordon of Khartoumhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2010/02/12/fmtv-contract-stays-with-oshkosh/#comment-20197 Gordon of Khartoum Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:14:44 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=13043#comment-20197 BOOMER, you are aboslutely right! I've had a few go arounds with BAE, myself, exactly as you say, and I'm not impressed wth BAE's "commitment to quality"-it's all about the bucks, for BAE, and they've been on the carpet in the U.K. for over charging and "corruption". BAE is just a typical MBA, "management" outfit that has more Excel spread sheet s and pie-charts than than they have in-house manufacturing. There's a limit to the assembly the process and BAE has its assembly line spread all over the world. BOOMER, you are aboslutely right! I’ve had a few go arounds with BAE, myself, exactly as you say, and I’m not impressed wth BAE’s “commitment to quality”-it’s all about the bucks, for BAE, and they’ve been on the carpet in the U.K. for over charging and “corruption”. BAE is just a typical MBA, “management” outfit that has more Excel spread sheet s and pie-charts than than they have in-house manufacturing. There’s a limit to the assembly the process and BAE has its assembly line spread all over the world.

]]> By: BOOMERhttp://www.dodbuzz.com/2010/02/12/fmtv-contract-stays-with-oshkosh/#comment-20148 BOOMER Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:30:59 +0000 http://www.dodbuzz.com/?p=13043#comment-20148 New Englander - BAE has a habbit of bidding on items they themselves cannot produce, so they subcontract various portions utilizing a performance in place contract mod (meaning it will be done someplace else). They tend to hold these locations very private to themselves and we (the Govt) have to give them advance notice to go to thier subcontractors, and many times find that the subcontractors have actualy subbed out themselves, sometimes to a different country. OSHKOSH on the other hand (even though they do order components from other vendors and Oshkosh locations) have a good quality inspection program in thier recieving area and through out production. While I have seen more than one BAE vehicle that forgot to install bolts or tighten up the nuts on major components, wire things up backwards or forget to hook up the wiring harness at all and we usualy find these issues when we go to pick them up or on the way home if we are driving them. BAe has a lot of issues with other govt programs as well, Ive gone to the table with them more than once as with other big name contractors that feel they are unapproachable. New Englander — BAE has a habbit of bidding on items they themselves cannot produce, so they subcontract various portions utilizing a performance in place contract mod (meaning it will be done someplace else). They tend to hold these locations very private to themselves and we (the Govt) have to give them advance notice to go to thier subcontractors, and many times find that the subcontractors have actualy subbed out themselves, sometimes to a different country. OSHKOSH on the other hand (even though they do order components from other vendors and Oshkosh locations) have a good quality inspection program in thier recieving area and through out production. While I have seen more than one BAE vehicle that forgot to install bolts or tighten up the nuts on major components, wire things up backwards or forget to hook up the wiring harness at all and we usualy find these issues when we go to pick them up or on the way home if we are driving them. BAe has a lot of issues with other govt programs as well, Ive gone to the table with them more than once as with other big name contractors that feel they are unapproachable.

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