War ‘Not Time’ To Change Don’t Ask; Tanker RFP Out Tomorrow

War ‘Not Time’ To Change Don’t Ask; Tanker RFP Out Tomorrow

UPDATED: Army COS Gen. Casey Voices Unease About Scrapping Don’t Ask During Wartime

The Air Force’s chief of staff, Gen. Norton Schwartz, told the House Armed Services Committee today that he worries changing the current policy on gays in the military could “perturb the force” at a time when it already faces strains from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Schwartz said he is “concerned” about repealing the don’t-ask, don’t-tell policy. “This is not the time to perturb the force” as it faces two wars. He added that he worries there is not enough scholarly study of the issue and too few opinion polls among “airmen and their families” about the likely repeal.

Schwartz offered his personal and professional opinion in response to a question from the ranking Republican on the House Armed Services Committee, Rep. Buck McKeon.

While the House hearing was underway, Army Chief of Staff Gen. George Casey voiced sentiments similar to those expressed by Schwartz. “I do have serious concerns about the impact of the repeal of the law on — on a force that’s fully engaged in two wars and has been at war for eight and a half years,” Casey said. While Gates and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Adm. Mike Mullen, have expressed support for the repeal of don’t-ask, don’t-tell, Gates has also expressed concern that the Pentagon should move with all deliberate speed. Given today’s statements by the service chiefs it would seem Gates either rounded them up or reacted to the chiefs’ unease with the speed of the policy shift.

Aside from the policy talk about don’t ask, don’t tell, lawmakers raised one program time and again during the hearing, the F136 second engine for the Joint Strike Fighter. Defense Secretary Robert Gates has threatened to recommend a veto should the F136 be included in the defense bills this year.

The new chairman of the HASC air and land forces subcommittee, Rep. Adam Smith, asked Schwartz and Secretary Mike Donley why they were “so adamantly opposed to doing this.”

Donley, after affirming the Air Force stood with Gates on the veto threat, offered a pretty lukewarm defense of the Pentagon position. “We will say upfront this has been one of the most difficult issues we have wrestled with. In some respects, it can be considered a close call,” he said.

Later on, Schwartz said the Pentagon’s experience with planes like the F-22 and the F-18 had left them “comfortable” with the prospect of building the entire F-35 fleet and equipping it with a single engine.

Rep. Michael Turner, ranking member of the HASC strategic forces subcommittee, raised the recent success of the Airborne Laser in shooting a target. He asked if that would lead the Air Force to increase its commitment to directed energy weapons. Schwartz poured a fair amount of cold water on the Boeing program, calling the ABL test “a magnificent technical achievement” but “this does not represent something that is operationally viable.” The future “coin of the realm” is solid state lasers, Schwartz said, not the chemical laser that Boeing built.

Finally, Donley told the committee that the final tanker RFP would be released Wednesday. He said the Air Force believed its RFP created a fair competition. “Both offerors have a chance to win this competition,” Donley said.

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Gee…some senator wants fratricide.…openly gay men or women in ranks leads to more problems that keeping them in the closet…I have seen openly gay personnel stabbed, shot, or beat to death because they were found out to be gay. This is not a joke…leave the ban in place. removing it does more harm than good.

This is not like civil rights in the 60’s where militant racists were integrated with African Americans. Today everyone has at least grown up knowing OF gays/lesbians, and most have known them personally. Gays and lesbians have been informally accepted in most sections of the military for quite sometime. I served in the late 90’s and was surprised that while there is still a very homophobic streak in the culture of the military (jokes, slander, etc), almost everyone was accepting of the gays and lesbians in their units. (yes, that includes the infantry/combat arms)

All of this talk about how gays in the military would “perturb” the force, or “negatively affect morale” seems to me drawn more from theory than practice. From my experience in and out of uniform most of us cared FAR more about competence then we did about who your fellow Soldiers were sleeping with. If they really want to have a campaign to purge the force, let’s start with morons first.

Well said pennst98. In my time in the USAF, I served with openly gay Airmen who did their job with pride and dedication to duty. I never personally witnessed a fellow service member who held an Airman’s sexual persuasion against them. CSAF definitely is wrong on this issue IMO.

Just look at the experience of the Greek Army with accepting open homosexuals:
they ended up led by Alexander the Great

I’ve also been assigned to military installations where personnel were stabbed, shot, or beat to death for not being white.

I’d rather serve with an openly gay, militarily competent patriot than someone who’s willing to murder because their squadmate is a little different from them. If they hate gay Americans so much they’re willing to kill them, how do those troops behave when we send them to OIF/OEF and we’re supposed to play nice with those people?

Gotta love our political leadership. They put having flaming homosexuals in the military before supplying said military with equipment or winning the war.

This will open the door to lawsuits, reverse-discrimination, worsened moral, and plenty of other things that can be entirely avoided.

It sounds like this guy would rather follow the bible than the bill of righs and the constitution witch he swore to protect glad hes gone , i to sereved for many years in the corps i swore to proctet the contitution not the bible or any other book of some church for all you people that want the bible to rule go to a country thats ruled by the church.

A popular political argument for permitting homosexuals to serve openly in the Marine Corps is that otherwise qualified Marines are being lost to the Corps solely due to their sexuality. That argument is unabashedly simplistic in failing to include the impact of homosexual Marines serving openly on Marines of conscience. In the first instance, the very nature of being Marines of conscience will prompt many of them to extricate themselves from such associations. A notable example of that imperative is the following Marine: On 2 February 1983, Captain Charles B. “Chuck” Johnson, USMC, of Neenah, Wisconsin jumped on an Israeli tank that tried to run through a Marine roadblock in Lebanon. He threatened to shoot the tank commander if he continued: The tank withdrew. Later, that Marine officer of conscience resigned his commission rather than compromise his moral convictions and serve with practitioners of homosexual acts tacitly protected by, “Don’t ask. Don’t tell.” That action was a manifestation of the Biblical imperative voiced in The Epistle of James 2:14–26 that convictions are worthless unless practiced. If the United States Congress reverses itself and permits homosexuals Marines to serve openly, they will force from service and replace still more Marines who value and practice their conscience.

For the rest of this thesis, go to: http://​www​.thebutter​-cutter​.com/​M​a​r​i​n​e​s​_​o​f​_​C​o​n​sci

And wasn’t Alexander the Great at least bisexual?

deck’s stacked. Boeing’s program to loose. I must be Deja Vu’ing. I can’t wait to see them completely screw it up. Firm fixed price. Oh.…that’s going to be painful for the Boeing pigs. Isn’t that Muilenberg at the helm? The same dude that ran Future combat System into the ground? Nice flat bottom on those MGV’s. And what a piece of work that network is. I bet your software engineers are just hating your stupid self over in your greener pastures..

A popular political argument for permitting homosexuals to serve openly in the Marine Corps is that otherwise qualified Marines are being lost to the Corps solely due to their sexuality. That argument is unabashedly simplistic in failing to include the impact of homosexual Marines serving openly on Marines of conscience. In the first instance, the very nature of being Marines of conscience will prompt many of them to extricate themselves from such associations. A notable example of that imperative is the following Marine: On 2 February 1983, Captain Charles B. “Chuck” Johnson, USMC, of Neenah, Wisconsin jumped on an Israeli tank that tried to run through a Marine roadblock in Lebanon. He threatened to shoot the tank commander if he continued: The tank withdrew. Later, that Marine officer of conscience resigned his commission rather than compromise his moral convictions and serve with practitioners of homosexual acts tacitly protected by, “Don’t ask. Don’t tell.” That action was a manifestation of the Biblical imperative voiced in The Epistle of James 2:14–26 that convictions are worthless unless practiced. If the United States Congress reverses itself and permits homosexuals Marines to serve openly, they will force from service and replace still more Marines who value and practice their conscience.

For the rest of this thesis, go to: http://​www​.thebutter​-cutter​.com/​M​a​r​i​n​e​s​_​o​f​_​C​o​n​sci

The general needs to do some math:

1. The President wants is repealed
2. SECDEF wants it repealed
3. Chairman of the JCS wants it repealed.

Given the SEFDEF’s record of not tolerating a lot of vocal, public pushback from his subordinates, the general may want to start buffing up his resume’, practice his interviewing skills, and buy a dark suit.

Perhaps we should be thankful that this General may be willing to put serving his country and ensuring a strong military before political convenience instead. The SECDEF’s record is hardly a good thing here, considering his narrow focus on the F-35 (shades of the F-111).

But Congress asked the question, and its his duty to be honest in front of them. Plus it’ll take an act of Congress to repeal Don’t Ask Don’t Tell and change the UCMJ.

Indeed, it should be remembered that “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” was introduced in order to better enable homosexuals to serve. One can argue the policy just complicated the unofficial system in place, but even unchanged “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” is far better than what the President and others want.

If a homosexual soldier cannot keep such thoughts to himself is he really cut out to serve? Undoubtedly gays have served in past wars and haven’t had problems keeping private business private. It is as ridiculous as claims of discrimination by the Boy Scouts for not being “gay-friendly.”

You say you saw stabbing, shooting and beating to death, did you file charges? And I take it that was also biblical? Because Jesus stabbed and beat so many people. And if people see their convictions force them to resign, then they should. But then where will they work? There are MANY people that have been in and are still in the military that are gay and serving their country.

Gay rights isn’t a battle I would engage in on either side. But I do wonder, while serving w/ NATO in ISAF, do US commanders insist that no gays serve alongside US troops? If all of the leading US allies have no problem with gays doing their jobs, why does the US? Another thing I wonder about is if the military would adjust it’s standards downwards to achieve recruitment goals but would deny a ‘stellar’ candidate because of his or her sexual orientation, what does that say about the desire for the quality of the forces. And finally, about morals or conscience, if that’s the benchmark, shouldn’t the military also remove adulterers? There would be a huge loss of qualified folks if that were the case.

You forgot to say that women shouldn’t be in the military either.

Yah, NG’s tanker *is* pretty gay. (bah-DOOMP!)

personally i dont care if the soldier next to me is gay or not.…as long as they can put accurate fire downrange when its needed…i dont see where sexuality has anything to do with performing ones duty when under attack

There wasn’t a ban to begin with until people feared not for the homosexuals, but for themselves being in the closet hoping no one would find out, so they decided to make one. War knows no boundaries and it will come to your doorsteps whether you risk it or not, as you were and as you are now. It is not the war that kills you, it’s your fellow soldiers.

Please.… most you boys are out there gettin it on the DL anyhow, (especially the blacks) so what’s the big deal if members of the LGBT community want to serve in the armed forces. These Generals better snap to attention and get in line with what the higher ups direct them to. The closet is no more!

I think Generals Casey and Schwartz don’t have the balls to go against the wishes of the homophobes in the Republican party. John McCain shame on you that you would put your PERSONAL religious convictions before the freedoms of your fellow service members.

CONGRESS get away from the brass and ask the troops in the field for THEIR views on the subject as THEY are th one’s that are going to have to live with any change that may come about. You will see that there is more concern for a felow soldiers competitence than the state of their sexuality.

The charman of the JCS found that out when he briefed some of the troops in the field. The troops are more concerned with receiving proper supplies and correct intelligence than who is sleeping with who. As a young airman stationed at Vandenberg I once walked in on a room mate who was having sex with a fellow male airman. I simply left the room and later asked the individual to honor my sense of propriety and have sex off the base. He did and so we remained room mates for about 6 months until he shipped out for Viet Nam.

With the removal of the ban, the brass needs to make sure there are policies in place to cover the situations stated by @7thwave. Current harrasement policies need to be revamped to cover male on male and female on female harrasement. Fratricide would occur only if those who are homophobic are led to believe that those above them will condone such activity. There are already examples of the military having to punish superiours who have ordered such attrocities as blanket parties and such. From the Secretary of Defense on down to the lowliest member of the services it must be made known that any harrassment of any fellow service member will be dealt with in a very strict manner.

As a fellow airman who served during the Viet Nam war era, there were several somewhat openly gay men in the units that I served in. Sure we all made gay jokes and remarks (even some of the gay airmen) but what we all cared about is wether our brother was capable of performing thier duty and if need be protecting their fellow airmen should be be under attack. Unit cohesiveness, as I see it, is every spoke in the wheel (unit) doing their utmost to accomplish the mission assigned to the unit. I have been married to the same woman for 41 years now and thru time have had the pleasure and honor of knowing several openly gay individuals. I feel the current regulations with regards to sexual harrasement in the military are sufficient. Both men and women in the service need to recognize that the word NO means just that.. As a young airman I had no problem saying NO to sexual advances.

I like how you say ‘Marines of conscience’ as if homosexuality is wrong. Of course that statement is rhetorical because of course you think it’s wrong. But if this is the case, then why bother with the military, man? Just be outspoken about the subject as a whole and don’t pretend that you are being unbiased or some crap.

As for me, I’m bisexual and going into the Air Force. While I don’t really see any need to be open about your own sexuality to such an extent, it is kind of annoying with the worry that someone might find out.


I retire in one year, after that you can turn the military into ANYTHING you want too. I say leave well enough alone because the soldier’s units morale will self destruct and much more discipline problems throughout the ranks will erupt.

Stay the course MAJUSMCRET. Good read! Obviously everyone who replied negatively to your response are gay. I was in the Air Force and I can tell you back in the early to mid 80’s when I was in if we found out you were gay you can bet only trouble for yourself. Homo’ism is very offensive to me. I want to puke with the sight of seeing to men kissing., uh! It is ultimately down to the moral (non-homosexuals) and the homosexual agenda led by Incorrigible liberal media including Hillary Clinton. I sure you I would kick your #@!! if you were a part of my unit, no doubt about it! My Air Force, the one forged and made by great men like General Curtis LeMAy. You can post your pretty little come backs. I don’t care. Unfortunately the corrupted will ruin this country. Hopefully not during my life time. But just like Greece, Rome all eventfully fell.

Since “openly sexual” conduct of any sort is prohibited by the UCMJ, it seems to me that militarys’ top priority has shifted from warfare to social engineering, since we haven’t won a war since 1945 but we are making progress with politico-correctisimus and diveristy, like with Major Nidal Hasan. With openly homosexual conduct condoned, I guess field maneuvres will be lot more fun for all, unless openly heterosexual conduct is still forbidden, which would serve the “homophobes” right. Barracks, benefits and housing, of course, has all figured out for openly homosexuals in the “typical” military way, and I’m sure we can work that into the Geneva Convention so the enemy will make the same accomodations for POWS. Then, we can give top priority to the Army’s first, transgender Islamic Chaplain, leading to “gender reassignment” surgery coverage under CHAMPUS and eventually civilian ObamaCare, for all.

The issues of morale, blackmailing, etc. are all valid concerns, but ignore the practical aspect. This is living close together.

My expereince with homos in the military is this: I had a queer guy on my fire fighting crew, they usually assigned all misfits to me for some reason. He was openly dating a 2nd Lt and there was no hiding the fact of his orientation due to the outward mannerisms and female like traits. Many joked about this but didn’t really harrass him. He was a little bit sissy at first but finally adapted and got decent performance reviews.

The problem was in the barracks. We had two showers for 25 people and guess who always had one complete bathroom all to himself? While everyone else lined up outside the other, and can you blame them?

Then the queer guy was the only one to have a room all to himself. The shirt had to arrange this to keep peace in the family after his second roommate was ready to kick his ass.

This occurred in the 1970’s. The more things change the more they stay the same.

Since when does the sexual orientation of a soldier have to do with whether you perform your job correctly? If they perform an unwanted advance on you, then thats sexual harrassment and it should be dealt with! If they are morons and cannot handle their duties or combat situations then they should be dealt with! If they are fraternizing with superior officers or those under their command, they should be dealt with! The military has current procedures for all of these actions and they should be enforced without concern to sexual orientation or gender. Who cares who another person loves as long as it doesn’t affect you or the duties they are swarn to uphold!

Stand tall General Schwartz for the men and women on the ground have the cajones to speak your mind even to CIC and Gates who are absolutely wrong about the progressive social programs they are foisting on our services. Stay strong and fight them to hell and back for the security of this nation. Donald R. Hohman CWO (REt) USA POW.


Bisexual? WTF either you suck Richard or you don’t! There’s no in between.

CSAF needs his attitudes upgraded. As a former Air Force officer, I am ashamed of him! As demonstrated in Israeli and European armed forces, gender affinity has nothing to do with military skills or effectiveness. Discrimination against people on the basis of gender or sexual affinity is morally and ethically wrong. To permit such discrimination in the name of “not disturbing the force” seems to me rather akin to a judge admonishing the KKK to play nice after they burn crosses on the lawns of a black church or Jewish synagogue.

I served in 1961–1964 in the Vietnam War Era !! .… I have no problem as long everbody does there job and works together, THAT IS THE RIGHT.

How about a test: Let’s take 50 Soldiers and put them in a barracks together. One bay, one large shower area, the big row of sinks… just like one would see in a Basic Training barracks. Now let’s see what happens when you identify one Soldier as homosexual? I suspect (since I have not conducted this experiment) that the reaction would be similar to sticking one guy in a barracks with 49 females.

Military living conditions are not always capable of supporting the privacy issues that would arise from abolishing “Don’t Ask..”. I can speak from recent experience that I know of one Soldier that was recently “outed” and let me say that the result on morale was devastating to the unit. Not to mention the effects on the Soldier…

Some things are best left private: who I sleep with and who you sleep with do not need to be public knowledge. I really do not want to know that a specific “dude” may be checking me out in the shower!

Prejudices, stereotypings, bigotries and personal beliefs will not be changed by any law, the only thing that can be changed is the behaviors and responses of those penalized for inappropriate behavior including the CSAF. Come, Norm, let’s reason together and quit the grandstanding and do what is right not what is convenient!

O.k, I am seeing everything from why are we bringing god into this, to I dont want to serve with queers. First off, I served 21 years in the U.S. Marines and if I remember right, you swore an oath to “GOD” and country! So thats why god is in this. I dont go to church every sunday and I dont think I even have a bible in my house, but the day this country stops worring about whats right and wrong in the eyes of the lord, well, we are just not going to be around for very long. Dont belive me, just look at history. This country was founded on “Gods principles” and anyone who can sit here and say that god has nothing to do with this country is the reason this country is going to hell. Pack up and get the hell out, do us all a favor! We dont want or need you..your the Minority, so shut up or run into me and I’ll shut you up! You may have free speech, but I dont have to hear it. You most likely dont even take your hat off for the flag!

Now..On gays in the military..If I cant take a shower or room with a female, why should I have to do the same with a gay man? I have the same right as a woman not to be stared at in the shower or while getting dressed. If I am taking a shower and the guy next to me is staring and has a hard on..I’m going to kick his ass.. Then what.. I get charged with a hate crime! BullS__t!, I have rights too and if they want to let you run around playing leep frog and pokin fun at each other, thats fine but not in front of me please. I dont care what you do behind closed doors..hell..was more women for me!, semper fi

It is not about Gay or Les Rights. It is about sex in general. Its about the clash of worlds. The combat unit can not afford the baggage. It is life and death out there and we must do everything possible to insure that all whom go into combat for us do so with all efforts on there safe return. The rights of Gays and Les is of no importance when it comes to one persons life who is putting it out there for us. The cohesion of the combat team transcends sex. Only those who have been in combat and have felt the camaraderie know. Give those who fight and die for you the best chance of living through there gift to you. The Gay and Les issue is a political battle keep it out of combat. Don’t jeopardize the life of one person for this petti crap.
Keep it simple stupid. As soon as they return you can play your silly games but as long as one is in harms way for us leave it alone. Haven’t the politicians killed enough of us.

Throw a woman in a shower in boot camp with 20 men and she will own you in court for sexual harrsement. Throw 1 gay man in with 20 straight normal men and it’s needed? What about the constutition protecting the rights of the straight men as well? I guess the straights people rights need to be thrown out the window for this? That’s the same rights that they fight and serve for all of you to have in our society by the way. How do you feel if someone is secretly leering at you and later makes pass at you based on what they wanted in the shower? This will happen at some point. Is it any less sexual discrimination then a guy spying on women in the shower then later hitting on the one he liked? ( I had break my comment up into 3 sections so please read all before bashing me)

Gay people don’t like straight people right? I served and had a gay hit on me once while I was in. I put him promptly in his place by saying “You must been drunk and just joking right?” “ Because if you were not I would have to report you for your conduct.” His conduct was enough being drunk to still have removed him from service. I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he was drunk and, therefore, not in charge of his actions and just horsing around without ruining his career. At the same time I made sure he knew I was offended by his actions. That was because I served before the don’t ask don’t tell went into effect. I put this in here cause gays and their supporters often say they don’t hit on straight normal people and that is an out right lie. I know first hand for a fact.

I had break my comment up into 3 sections so please read all before bashing me)

If gays want serve let them but make damn sure the rights of the straight people who want their personal privacy, required by religious beliefs protected. It will be hard in environments where people have to shower naked together. It’s suppsoed to build unit cohesion and account for limited facilities, but does the opposite if your going include openly gay people showering with normals because they feel the need to serve. A guy who’s normal has less rights than gays to insist on this ? Women can insist they have been sexual discriminated against. They win cases against the military all the time very costly cases in money and man power. Wait till a guy cant make rate or advance because his superior is openly “gay” and the regular guy might rebuffed his superiors advances at one point. Of course the court will throw that out as we know men can’t be sexual discriminated against if they are straight right? These issues are going happen lets hear Mr. Gates response to this. He is only doing this to detract from the real issues at moment. The War, the economy, and the health care issue.

This whole issue is so stupid.

“Waaah I don’t wanna fight with GAY people waaah! They might give me cooties!”

What if the soldiers complaining didn’t want to fight alongside black people? Or women? Or Jews? Would we say ‘Oh you poor thing, you shouldn’t have to be exposed to anything you don’t like! We’ll kick out all those nasty women/gays/black people just for you! Here, have a pony while we’re at it!”

No, you say, “Well, TOO BAD, soldier! You just have to learn to deal with it and be more tolerant! You have more important things to worry about anyway!”

Stephen, just in case you did not know, the UCMJ DOES have policy about adultry. It is punishable through court-martial. However, instead of putting them in prison, they are processed OUT of the military. How do you imagine our military members felt when Clinton had his little fling? The Commander-in-Chief had an affair, in a government office, then lied about it? Hmmmm–Please know what you are talking about before you comment.

SIJ-if you EVEN knew how ignorant your post is, you would have never written it. It does appear that you have NEVER been involved with the military in any context. I am sure you would feel comfortable living, showering, dressing, undressing, sleeping in a TENT with about 20 other military members if you knew one of them was gay? You live in your little civilian world, and know NOTHING about the circumstances that our fighting men and women must cope with. My husband would not have been comfortable, with the above named situation, with a homosexual in his quarters. Neither would my sons who are also in the military.

Gen Schwartz has finally taken a position not in step with Sec Gates. What the heck is happening? How can that be? Can it be he sees the light at the end of the tunnel? OADS…I can’t wait for the “tanker decision.”

If a person loves this country and wants to serve in the Military then they will do everthing they have to do to serve in the military. If a person is gay, and they want to serve then let them, but they will not be able to engage in any homosexaul behavior. There are also straight people in the military that engage in alternative lifestyle behaviors. I have heard of wife swapping and extramarital affairs. All those things are violation of the uniform code of military justice. I believe in God, and I believe homosexuality is immoral and goes against what I believe to be right and true. There are many things wrong with the military at this point in history. The fighters have taken second fiddle to there in house civilian bosses. I work with Airmen all the time that aren’t getting the adequate training they need to do there jobs. The President really doesn’t care if Gays are let in the military. The was just a talking point to appease the gays who voted for him. He knows that it will get stonewalled. If you believe any of out leaders will actually dedicate time to this issue, then you are naive(extremely). Lets be realistic. Next.

Well, of course. DADT is why we’re losing Afgahnistan, and if we ponder our crotches some, we’ll figure out how to win!

A brave, new world awaits the military:

War Crimes: 2025!
The US Army has charged the Peoples’ Republic POW Commandateur with failure to supply US POW transgender Private Amanda Simpson with “her” daily estrogen requirements, leading to facial hair, diminished busts, and dork growing our of “her” nose! Female POW threw her out of their barracks, but Amanda stalwertly refused to enter the male barracks.

“I am not comfortable around men,” she said.

Army MEDCOM demands Amanda’s release for medical reasons.

“At this point,” Army Surgeon General said, “recovery may not be complete, but at least, we can save a couple bra sizes get rid of the beard.”

served 20 years @ bratwife. I reckon I know a lot more than you about the infidelities, the winks and slaps on the back, the whole nine yards. Seen the ‘good christian’ husbands out like all the single men, mixing it up w/ the local women, while at home, the wives hit the clubs the night hubby got on the overseas bound planes or ships. I am aware of UCMJ and just like in civil law, it’s not always used with fairness. Like I said, if the military discharged everyone caught commiting adultry, there would be a huge loss of good people.

You are crazy to think that gays have been accepted most looks away and dont say what they really think and for good reason just to keep from fights ‚accepted your kidding yourself most just wish you might start thinking clear and get off drugs or whatever gives one a feeling they want to be gay couse its not right. and will never accept some person who feels gay today straight the next day. wish all gays/lez would stop trying to push thier way into our world,stay in your fairytail and leave us alone in our real world.

Here’s what Military Men are saying:

“The Army is not a sociological laboratory; to be effective it must be organized and trained according to the principles which will insure success. Experiments to meet the wishes and demands of the champions of every race and creed for the solution of their problems are a danger to efficiency, discipline and morale and would result in ultimate defeat.”

That was said by Col. Eugene R. Householder, addressing a gathering of Negro Editors and Publishers the day after Pearl Harbor, to tell them that the Army couldn’t Integrate now. ( Source : Integration of the Armed Forces, 1940–1965 by Morris J. MacGregor, Jr. Published by the Center of Military History, United States Army. )

We’ve heard it all before.

As for Amanda Simpson — the real one, recently appointed to a security-critical position in the Commerce Department to make sure US Dual-Use Technology doesn’t make it into unfriendly hands:

“Simpson has more than 30 years of experience in the aerospace and defense industry, most recently serving as Deputy Director in Advanced Technology Development at Raytheon Missile Systems in Tucson, Arizona.

Simpson also holds degrees in physics, engineering and business administration along with an extensive flight background. She is a certified flight instructor and test pilot with 20 years of experience.”

Gosh! Who would have thought that all these big, rugged macho warrior types would be so frightened by a few pansies? I wonder if they jump on the table and squeal like little girls when ever a gay person wanders by?


In the gym, the TV had this show with two men kissing and “Ilove you” and “Ilove”-one was cop and, of course, it was about a love triangle (30 minutes on teh treadmill, you understand)—-ICHKKkK! If I had to serve with that, I’d find another job. Then, where is all your highly valued talent? Better hope you’ve got enough homosexuals to fil ALL the MOSs, because a lot of people WILL find it offensive. Every homosexual I’ve known is not “gay” at all-more issues than a magazine rack.

I’m a scientist, myself-college degrees don’t mean much to me.
A lot of PhD’s ought to have their heads examined, if they could remember where they left them.
I’ve also spent time in the USMC.
If guy needs daily estrogen over doses to feel comforatble with himself, I don’t him on my back door.
I don’t think you could either the Pope or Darwin on board with aMANda.
Dr. Frankenstein-maybe.

Good argument for homophobics like you! Yes, I served openly gay in the 1990’s in your Marine Corps, and you would be suprised just how many there are currently serving and many who are decorated Veterans and have given the ultimate sacrifice. My question to you is: Where is the research to back up up your statement that Marines extricate themselves from association of “Straight” Marines? Is this posted somewhere in black and white or in a periodical so I can look for myself what the statistics say about this issue! I highly doubt that is the case! Conscience or Not, Gay or Not, Bisexual or Not, Lesbian or Not, these very people you condemn still have your back and the back of their fellow “STRAIGHT” Marines! Don’t hide behind the Bible or your fears of the real Truth because It’s very quite obvious you know ultimately what the truth is, even if it’s not in your favor! Semper Fidelis!

The flaming homos believe everybody who doesn’t support what they want is a “homophobe”, and they proceed to go cry about it to the lawyers and leftists about it. Why would it be any different in the military? If you or any gay isn’t capable of keeping their sex lives and “orientation” to themselves while serving, then their priorities need to be straightened out. If a gay can keep that aspect of his life, than he should be able to serve. Yeah some gays must have served in the past but they had the common decency to keep that to themselves and put their duty first like any other solider.

Naval service form DEC86-JAN06 and I know for a FACT that the “don’t-ask, don’t-tell” Policy SHOULD NOT be repealed. William C could not have been more correct and stright to the point when he stated, “If you or any gay isn’t capable of keeping their sex lives and “orientation” to themselves while serving, then their priorities need to be straightened out. If a gay can keep that aspect of his life, than he should be able to serve. Yeah some gays must have served in the past but they had the common decency to keep that to themselves and put their duty first like any other solider”.

Lets keep the morale intact as far as the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy is concerned. If repealed the inevitable will occur and we will see far more conflicts, lawsuits, court martials, injurys and or even “friendly-fire” deaths in our military and on the battlefield. I respect others opinions about how they feel-that gays should be able to serve “openly as being gay”, however, the same individuals need to respect REALITY and EXPERIENCE from the WAR FIGHTER that this Policy must remain in effect due to severe consequences in return to our military. I have been there and seen alot of it, especially on Aircraft Carriers–all “man-over-board” incidents WEREN’T accidental or caused by jet blast!

Humble 1

gays are in the military.
USMC i went to boot camp and i’m sure i showered with a lesbian. but the foucs was ELSEWERE. sorry dudes you might think you hot enough shit to have EVERY homo look at your but your probably wrong. yes you have gays who just like hetro’s cant take no for an answer and they should be delt with in the same manner.
but ponder this former, current, furture miltiary members. can you imagine not being able to tell anyone about you wife or husband. can you imagine not being able to put your spouse on any notifications lists? that they wont get the flag when you die, that instead of being the first to know they’ll be the last? can you imagine being fresh out of school and knwing you might live your whole time in the barracks in fear?(of being discovered) knowing at any point you could found out anything that could even imply your sexual orientation could get you kicked out with the same discharge as a DRUG POP!?

(had to split my comment) gays are serving wether you like it or not.
anyone whose served knows that your personal life is hard to keep seperate from your military life. espically with move to try and reduce DUI’s suicides and generally trying to make us safer. so imagine thinking about anything that could mark you as a HETERO-sexual and think about what if you had to think about/worry about anyone your serve with finding out. then think about the fact that any homo that serves(with half a brain) GOES INTO THE MILITARY knowing this.
oh and save your god speeches because there are god fearing churches who are accepting of homosexuals just like there ones who are not.

Hey guess what, I’m gay and serve in the Coast Guard…and people on my cutter KNOW about it!! Do you know what else is interesting? I use the same showers as them, sleep in the same berthing with them (12 to a berthing), and eat, talk and work with them. They are accepting about this. According to all that Brass, this should not be happening. According to them, I am the problem for no unit cohesion. I do my job, that is all that matters. I rely on my shipmates when the sh*t hits the fan, and they rely on me. THAT is cohesion.

And thanks to the CRWG, the military is moving in the right direction, recently up-ing the rank it takes to authorize seperation under DADT. Now it is only Generals and Flag Officers.

I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.

I am a retired Senior Chief Petty Officer. While serving I found dealing with the sordid morale reducing conduct of homosexual men aggressively seeking sex, the worst morale and potentially security issue facing our unit. For those who are and have not beem confronted with the sultry aggressive man trying to force sex upon him…no problem…but once they are subjected to it…Katy bar the door. I have seen sailors nearly killed others (gays) for trying to force them into to having sex.…it is a cardinal sin…and shame that military men who volunteer to serve the country are forced to deal with this kind of shameful and immoral behavior. Were the DADT policy repealed I guarantee that all h..l will break out in units across the military. Just wait and see.

I have never seen so many homophobic people in my life. I know many gay men who have served, received a purple heart and did their job without anyone knowing that they where gay. So the knowledge of them stating it will make you nervous? Scared that someone is going to leer at you? Grow Up !!!! This I would kick his ass mentality is showing your true colors that you are afraid that you might be gay yourselves. How many gyms have you been to? Did you really fear that other men were looking at you? As for God and morals, your hired by the Govt to KILL how moral is that? Other countries have gays and lesbians working together in the military with no problem, why should you have a problem.


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