GCV: Survivable, Mobile, Modular

GCV: Survivable, Mobile, Modular

The number one priority of the GCV, according to what’s written in the initial capabilities document and the capability development document, is to provide armored protection to the soldier, particularly against IEDs. Close behind it is mobility. “The MRAP is not mobile off the roads… protect the individual soldier, having a mobile off-​​road capability and having it networked… are the three [priorities] that come to mind,” said Army Maj. Gen. Keith Walker, the service’s Future Force Integration Directorate Commander.

That’s what Walker said when I asked him about new Ground Combat Vehicle (GCV) Infantry Fighting Vehicle and how he sees it fitting into the future force. The GCV is intended to replace the Bradley, he said, and will also be used as a battlefield medical vehicle.

I asked him about GCV strategic mobility, which back in the day was the main goal of the FCS manned ground vehicles (seen above in an artists rendering), to be light enough to fly full brigades to distant battlefields. To be useful in a place like Afghanistan the GCV would have to be lighter than the 30=ton Bradley which is too heavy to fly there in any real numbers.


“We would hope that it would be lighter [than a Bradley], but there are some mathematics here. To survive an IED you’ve got to heavy up,” Walker said. The Army’s goal is to build an off-​​road mobile, heavily armored infantry fighting vehicle, but build it in such a way that it can be made lighter over time. Hence, the modularity concept that figures so prominently in GCV design.

“It’s written in the requirements that as technology changes and allows the vehicle to lighten up, that we can do that. The exact opposite of what we’ve done the last eight years where we’ve taken a Humvee and slapped appliqué armor on them and they’ve gotten heavier and heavier… to be able to take advantage of technology to make it lighter over time.”

“I suspect it would be heavier than a Bradley to start with and the idea is that we would be able to lighten up over time as technology enables us to,” Walker said.

With the Army talking about replacing the Bradley fleet, I can understand, as one industry source told me, why Bradley builder BAE Systems is right nervous. They stand to miss out on serious recapitalization money if the decades old Bradley fleet is retired. Although, some think GCV will face long development delays if for no other reason than the country’s rather dire fiscal situation will put a crimp on major new weapons programs. Best case scenario for BAE is GCV gets delayed and Bradley fleet is recapitalized over the next decade, and they wrap up the GCV contract if that program ever gets going.

When I spoke to BAE executives last fall, they sounded pretty confident they would win GCV because, as they said, they’re the premier infantry fighting vehicle builder. To boost their chances, BAE announced this week that they’ve teamed with Northrop Grumman to leverage the latter’s networking and sensor expertise.

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GCV cannot be based on fighting wars like Afghanistan, this is expected to replace the Bradley and thus must be a very capable in conventional warfare as well.

If they wanted a lighter platfrom than the Bradley, they should have continued development of the XM1206. GCV is likely, and probably should be heavier than the Bradley, but it can provide much greater armor protection.

Yeesh!
So I’m looking at this artist’s concept IFV thing that goes with this story,
and it dawns on me that said artist(s) has little to no real idea of AFV development.
Obviously, he/she/they never heard of “shot traps”, as that vehicle looks to be the ugliest, boxiest, easiest-to-penetrate shaped AFV I’ve seen in a long time (those cupolas on the hull in front of the turret,…seriously??).

Hopefully the GCV will look nothing like it, other than being tracked.
Flat surfaces, no matter how exotic the armor, are no-no’s versus kinetic energy penetrators, especially including EFPs, which would love nothing more than a near-perfect perpendicular surface to strike against.

Good Morning Greg,

I smell old fish here, starting summer reruns a bit early aren’t we.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

At the rate they are going they might as well just build a stretched version of the M1 with a squad bay in the rear and call it quits since everything they are concieving is going that way anyhow.

Somebody tell me what I’m missing here: They want the vehicle to be off-road capable because MRAPs aren’t, and also want it to protect against IEDs. But hasn’t the IED threat pretty much been confined to the roads? Or at very least, to heavily-traveled routes & choke points in the terrain?

Unless I’m not comprehending something, it seems like they just want one vehicle that does everything. If that’s the case, stop complicating your life and just build two or three different vehicles designed for the tasks. The efficiencies from having a single-type fleet fall apart if the damn things don’t work in combat.

What’s the mission? Are we fighting the Ruskies who have learned to use IEDs to slow down the accompanying infantry? Or is it to protect us from guerillas/insurgents who don’t have armor themselves but know we use local roads and can slow us down with IEDs when in hot pursuit? Can’t take this into the mountains or cross rivers very easy, which are great spots to ambush it. So, what mission does this address? Or do we have R&D money to burn and this is an engineer and program manager full-employment program?

You hit the nail on the head Mr. King, I once watched them spend 1 year and millions of dollars trying to come up with a 120mm mortar rapid loading and firing turrent mounted on a powered howitzer platform. My initial response was Huh? The howitzer already does the job your trying to replace. They ignored me and continued on until they ran out of funds with no progress and the ideal was dropped for the time being and personnel reassigned to other programs (they were not happy to not be in charge of thier own any longer).

The objective here should be a M2 Bradley replacement, pure and simple. With superior armor, dismount capacity, weapon systems, a better engine, and so forth.

Regarding it’s potential use in Afghanistan, by the time this enters full rate production will we still be in Afghanistan. I am not even certain if we have deployed any heavier armor (Abrams or Bradleys) in Afghanistan.

That picture is evidently a concept of the now cancelled XM1206 which was part of the MGV program. It looks like a rather poor design compared to some of the other models and concepts I have seen of the XM1206.

As far as I know n o artist concepts of how the GCV will look have been released yet.

Which 120mm mortar project are you referring to? In truth we can develop a far better self-propelled mortar system than the current M1064 and M1129 mortar carriers. Look at the AMOS and NEMO systems that hhave been demonstrated on the CV90 and Patria AMV.

I don’t know if the project you refer to was the USMC Dragon Fire mortar, but that project had some potential. The objective of such systems isn’t to replace howitzers, but to simply be a much more capable mortar.

This was no longer a mortar system in any way other than the round. It was a 10 foot tube inside a turrent mounted on a howitzer vehicle with a automatic self feeding system. It was a glorified tank or powered howitzer with less capability. Just something the mortoar group was playing with, never worked, as exposed as the primer are on mortars its not a good ideal to have a bunch of rounds in a rack with all the safety pins pulled while bouncing around as they found out more than once, lucky for them they were always inert except for the primers because they went off frequently in the racks and while trying to load which frequently jammed up as well. Yeah they need better mobile platforms for them but if your gonna build a tank then build a tank.

BOOMER might be speaking about the cancelled FCS NLOS-M system. See

http://​www​.deagel​.com/​S​e​l​f​-​P​r​o​p​e​l​l​e​d​-​H​o​w​i​t​z​e​r​s​/FC…
and
http://​www​.deagel​.com/​l​i​b​r​a​r​y​/​B​A​E​-​S​y​s​t​e​m​s​-​N​L​O​S​-M_…

for more info.

Reading in the new RFP, there’s talk of allowing foreign (outside North America) companies to participate/compete.

Looking at foreign designs (AMOS and NEMO mortars were mentioned, CV90, AMV, etc),
I say that if foreigners are designing better kit than what the US defense contractors are offering the US lately, then maybe foreign competition is EXACTLY what’s needed to get the US companies to straighten up and fly right, so to speak (in other words, actually come out with designs that 1) work, and 2) are affordable in useful numbers.

At least the new RFP does include language that enables the US Govt to bail if the given contractor steps too far outside the program’s initial cost estimates, failures of the defense contractor to deliver as promised, etc…
Such wording then should now be par-for-the-course for every future defense contract (if FCS and JSF have taught us anything at all).

I love reading statements like “To survive an IED you’ve got to heavy up.” It’s just not that simple. The better protected you make a vehicle, the bigger or better an IED has to be, true, but to say “heavier vehicle = IEDproof” is just foolish. A big enough blast will still kill the occupants no matter how tough the vehicle is.

This just makes me glad I’m in the Stryker world, with no intention of moving to the heavy side.

It looks ugly. Change the design.

Or the one who design it.

I think what they’re getting at is there is a minimum weight to make a vehicle resistant to an IED. No matter how high the suspension, or the shape of the hull, the vehicle needs to weigh a certain amount to keep it from flipping over from a blast. Even if we come up with M1-style armor that only weighs a few pounds per square foot and cover that vehicle head to toe and makes it shrapnel proof, that’s still a pinata getting tossed around if it doesn’t weigh enough.

I am new to this board. Maybe I am oversimplifying the matter, but Why don’t we buy more helicopters or design something new to transport our troops through the air?

Maybe we just needed to look at our recycling bin on our old outdated arsenal and upgradeit to compete with tinternational compitators. Say the Sherman tank and the AC-130 Spectre. On 1943 we mass produce the Sherman tank to about 45,000 tanks and the same with AC-130 Spectre where now was just junks. What if use and upgrade ut. It could save us the cost and help strenghten our defenses.

Or maybe we can still use the steel and the tires for modern tank production. Imagine how we can save on that. Russia have’nt change their tank design since 1943.

I can understand the need for a new ground combat vehicle — the Bradley, Stryker and M113 family of vehicles simply do not have the underbelly armor we desire to protect our Soldiers in today’s and the future’s operating environment. But I’m beginning to wonder if they’ve added too many required capabilities for one vehicle to possess: the side and underbelly protection levels, 9-man squad, manned turret with 30mm gun, off and on road mobility, etc. When you take away any real transportability restriction (i.e. weight), the inevitable result is a monster-Bradley, and I’m not sure that’s what the Army needs right now. If any theoretical vehicle could not be effectively employed in Afghanistan today, one would be hard pressed to justify going forward with the program.

Maybe the Army needs to take a step back and rethink the whole HBCT design — perhaps we would be better off with a more protective personnel carrier (like an armored Stryker with tracks), a recon/light attack vehicle that has a 30mm cannon but with limited troop carrying capability, and then the signature main battle tank (I see no need to replace the M1 yet). I guess I just want to see our Army postured in the best way to meet future threats, and I’m concerned that we’re being set up to see yet another major acquisition program get cancelled.

One would hope the GCV isn’t being planned for employment in Afghanistan, since the Army envisions fielding no earlier than 2017. And that is probably optimistic

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