Osprey To Swoop For WH Lawn

Osprey To Swoop For WH Lawn

If the White House and Pentagon have figured out how to fix the interagency process that helped doom the first stab at a new presidential helicopter, Navy Secretary Ray Mabus didn’t make it crystal clear this morning.

I asked Mabus who was in charge of the program and he said the Navy has the administrative program lead and Ash Carter coordinates the program for the Pentagon. I pressed him to find out who really has the program lead and about the role of the White House (aka Secret Service working with the WH Military Office) and he paused for a long time. Then he let it lie.

According to the Military Office’s website, it: “oversees policy related to WHMO functions and Department of Defense assets and ensures that White House requirements are met with the highest standards of quality… The WHMO units include the White House Communications Agency, Presidential Airlift Group, White House Medical Unit, Camp David, Marine Helicopter Squadron One, Presidential Food Service, and the White House Transportation Agency. To assure proper coordination and integration, the WHMO also includes support elements such as operations; policy, plans, and requirements; administration, information resource management; financial management and comptroller; WHMO counsel; and security.”


Let’s hope that the program’s players know who is really in charge and just don’t want to talk about it. Finally, Mabus also said he wished he’d been on the job earlier in the program. “It’d be a lot easier if Id been around,” he said, smiling. Perhaps head banging was needed and he is adept at it?

Meanwhile, it may seem an unlikely choice but Bell Helicopter and Boeing say they are likely players in the presidential helicopter competition. They told Defense Daily that they are “preparing a response to the RFI request with a VV-22 solution.”

Imagine the sight of a V-22 swooping down to the White House lawn with those enormous blades. Great advertising for the capability. After all, if the White House deems it safe enough to carry the president then it must be ready for prime time, anywhere and any time.

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Of course the critical question is: can you put a full kitchen in one, so the President can have a hot meal while escaping from the Apocalypse (otherwise known as Washington DC traffic)?? Actually, the real solution is: rent a darn helicopter! There is no need to have a dedicated helicopter.

I like the idea of renting, but as you know — couldn’t happen.

The comms would be extremely sensitive along with any ECM they might have. Plus, if used or maintained by someone else they’d worry about sabotage or poor maintenance, etc.

But then, I’m not at all sure we need to get a helicopter that costs all that much.

An ‘Auto-rotation capability is for wussies’ Marine One Osprey…Yeah, that’s the ticket. And while we’re at it, lets see if we can round up a couple of decent Ford Pintos to convert into armoured stretch limos.

Jeeez…

JL

Great, let’s kill the President Pole style. You don’t have the heads of our government fly in technology that is still working out the kinks.

Until JFK was assassinated. Security issues demand vertical lift.

BAD idea„ too big and way to expensive to sit and waite for the POTUS..and not a good aircraft.

The answer is so easy, the refurbished, more powerfull “after market” Sikorsky S-61T — a proven and known aircraft, just updated at a reasonable price. Put all the comms gear and Secret Service ‘exotics’ that ‘sunk’ the VH-101 in a second bird if it is so important. Win-win-win.

It is good enough for our folks in Afghanistan but not good enough for someone here? Maybe we should just rule out flying altogether, the Polish officials were flying a fixed wing aircraft.

Making Marine One an Osprey is a great way to kill the President, because sooner or later, it’ll happen in that deathrap. Might as well fly him around in a Harrier. He’d actually be safer.

Agree on the eariler comments about the the utter ridiculousness of this whole competition. POTUS doesn’t need an Apocalypse-proof chopper, just a reliable one that will get him from Air Force One to the WH lawn quickly. Just get him some Seahawks already, or if you need more room, Sikorsky’s H-92 (which was derived from the Blackhawk series). The VH-71 is around $400 million apiece now… more than AF1. The H-92 is $16 million apiece fresh from the factory floor. Cut a check for two or three, hand them to the Marines, and get it done.

Osprey is the only smart choice… fast, and survivable. And since the president will be flying in it.. it will have the highest scrutiny EVER. Perhaps it will bring some change to the Ospreys the soldiers get.

Osprey can refuel from the USAF’s biggest airborne tankers (assuming they ever get any new ones) and so can get to anywhere in the country without stopping at an airfield at a well known location.

Let’s be honest…we don’t always take our men and women best interests in mind when it comes to equipment.

The Poland comment was not a direct comparison just a sarcastic comment. Regardless, the Poles had their President flying a refurbished aircraft with a pilot who allegedly took an unwise risk with the President’s life.

Taking even a 1% chance with the U.S. heads of state to put money in a contractor’s pocket is not worth it in my book.

It seems to be the requirements for this bird are over the top. Get 3 or 4 good military grade helos, that can air refuel. Put some good comms in them, some extra sound dampening (Active sound control, I mean if my car can do it) and get it done already.

They didn’t see a need for a roof on the limo before JFK…

You obviously have no idea about anything related to aviation.…newsflash: a lot of the aircraft flying today have been refurbished in one way or another. Not only that but they have been taken apart and put back together at least once during their lifetime (periodical inspections).
I agree with the view that if a bunch of jarheads and flyboys in the middle east can entrust their lives to a “new” piece of technology, so can their commander in chief. It would be a great way to boost confidence in the aircraft and if it happens to crash, we’ll have a hero. Either way, it would have a positive outcome. ;)

I still dont see why he even needs one or any before him, JFK and his predecessors got by fine without one didn’t they. Just seems like another unecessary waist of taxpayers money.

Nah, just take an Osprey off a deployment. Add COMMS, ECM, VIP Seats, and sound dampening inside. Then load the POTUS onboard and let it CRASH like the rest of them.

I think the Osprey is a good idea, but not as good as let’s say, CH53s…or perhaps the HK53. Just my .02

Man, all these experts on the MV-22 and most here have never even seen one in person yet. But, this is America, home of the brainwashed! The Osprey is the future of Marine Aviation and as far as I can tell, the Marines have always done well with their assets. The Army guys on here continue to harass the Marines about getting the Osprey, but if half of them knew what they were talking about, they would know that Army SOCOM has been eyeballing and using these the entire time. Get used to the idea of these being around.

OK, to go back and talk about just a few of the issues which have been raised: I suspect the first commenter was joking about using a rental. I don’t know that but I suspect it.

I like the Osprey idea except that I’m not sure that the desired or necessary landing areas are suitable to the aircraft. I don’t know that the White House lawn would be able to safely land it or what they have at Camp David. A lot might depend on some significant operating constraints. I mean, if I were designing security I’d have thing set up so that very close to where Marine One lands there is a little bolthole into which I could shove the POTUS with a tunnel that would get him into a command center well under the White House. It might be that landing the Osprey might collapse that tunnel or block the entrance. Too many unknowns — but I think it is safe enough for use assuming the operating parameters fit with the anticipated use.

Also, I like the car idea and forgetting all about a vertical landing craft, but on the crowded streets of Washington, DC I think it would be courting disaster. Routes would be too predictable for proper security (I suspect) and it would be often messing up traffic patterns royally.

Kinda cool if they’d assign a Harrier? I know, I know, no support staff could come along and it’s not properly equipped for staffing with one pilot and one POTUS…

It is nice to see new people here, but when they demonstrate such poor manners and lack of understanding, it is harder to welcome them. Doesn’t sovtekking know that there are lots of very highly regarded executive helicopter/aircraft rental places? Does he think that all these rich people own their helicopters? No, they are smart enough to rent them and save lots of money. And any comm package can pretty easily be carried — ever seen what commo the military brings in a suitcase? No, I didn’t think so. The justification for Marine One is far more about prestige — and it actually has a kitchen on board. So the President and staff can bake cookies during Armageddon we suppose.
If sovtekking wants to buy the Prez a fancy helicopter that is not needed — whip out your checkbook my son. But don’t ask me to contribute — he can easily call up his expensive limo, block every road, and zip to the airport.
There is, as you suggest, lots of stuff that you don’t know about but the rest of us are pretty well informed.

If I’m not mistaken I think remember (or atleast I think I remember) that the Army was researching their own version of the Osprey.

Actually they did need a roof — JFK was not the first President assassinated. But they did not take it seriously. Now, they do.

Drake1 — actually, my comments were the same! I half seriously would forbid the Prez from flying unless absolutely necessary. The Polish pilot was almost certainly afflicted with Rogue Pilot Syndrome, but ever heard of Sec’y of Commerce Ron Brown? He was in an AF “executive” aircraft that hit a mountain — even our Air Force makes mistakes. Another reason to question the need for Marine One.

Screw the Harrier, get the F-35 it is after all replacing it! Plus its stealth, you wouldn’t want the president to be seen on radar! =P

The first guy was dead serious about renting!!! There is absolutely no reason for a dedicated helicopter — we could get as good if not better by renting. And flying is less safe than just taking a big honking limo.

It would come out much cheaper to get ospreys since they are already being built, it would be great for the program and why the hell would they get the POTUS a heavy lift helicopter, that is about 70 ft long and has about has a blade span just as big.

The President’s Helo is not some chopper you can rent from billy-bob’s chopper service. That helo has things on it most of us don’t even know about and shouldn’t know about. You really wanna stick the leader of the free world on some rented UH-1? What about the encrypted comms, ECM, maintenance, etc…

I suggest they just order a Propeller Beanie Hat, they are on sale for $7.99. Goes with the character!

For the record, POTUS has had a rotary wing aircraft at least since Eisenhauer (perhaps earlier).

Hmmmmmm I am familiar with ospreys, got to fly in one while aboard a gator, i have launched of boats in c-2, flown on 53’s, 46’s and the H-60, osprey was an interesting experience to say the least…admiditedly i was a bit nervous as there reputation is not great, and the marines stories about other v22’s were less than encouraging, but we landed in one peice, but without some drastic improvments i wouldn’t even consider this as a presidential aircraft

Oh yea, a presidential helicopter isn’t needed, just like a bulletproof rooftop wasn’t needed to protect JFK.…

Guess our president should jog, seems to be the safest way to travel. And when he needs to go overseas… he better start swimming!

Aircraft can fall out of the sky, boats can sink, and cars can get in accidents… safest thing to do is walk… yea..

That big honking limbo is too slow and easy to target. With predefined routes. Traffic that can slow its movement. In the air, your free to do what you want. (mostly)

Can the V-22 fit on that lawn?

Since the VH-71 and S-92 were both overloaded by absurd requirements, the V-22 might be the next step up. Or we could skip it and just have the President fly in a CH-53K. Surely he can fit whatever he wants in that.

Eisenhower was the first President to have a dedicated helicopter at his disposal. The Executive Flight Detachment at HMX-1 does more than just fly the President.

A fleet of Sikorsky Crashhawks would fit that bill. Hasn’t that platform exceeded 1000 Class A mishaps since IOC?

The reason the VH-71 got to be so expensive was the large numbers of passengers and the extended range requirements. The new concept for the presidential helos actually involves three aircraft. A presidential aircraft, a support aircraft, and an escape aircraft. The first two will be the same and have to be able land on the WH lawn and not damage it. So H-92 or EH-101 is about as big as you can get, V-22 need not apply. Primary purpose is to routinely move the president and his staff around(thankfully no longer all together). The escape aircaft will mostly sit at Anacostia unless it is really needed. A VV-22 would seem to make a lot of sense. Response time is faster, it can land at the WH or most any place a Helo can if you don’t care how much damage it makes, it is significantly faster, can fly higher and further, and it is in production so it will be economical for the handful that will be needed (probably less than 5 total). It is unlikely the President would need it very often. Feel free to argue the validity of the mission, but as defined (at least for the press) the escape mission seems tailored to the V-22.

The Osprey has to overcome it’s reputation as a widow-maker before the Secret Service will ever let one anywhere near the White House lawn, and the 5th crash a few days ago isn’t going to help its cause. The quad tiltrotor in early stages of development would be a more realistic option, but this is still many years away. A VVIP version of the CH-53 would be more practical. It has a LOT of lift capability and is combat-proven. Just avoid equipping it with a $15 million coffee maker with the ability to survive an electromagnetic pulse from a thermonuclear strike, please.

I agree with the statement that the Osprey being a deathtrap.
I live in Tucson, AZ, which is near Marana, AZ, where an Osprey crashed, killing all 19 Marines aboard in a training exercize.
So, I’d love to see the “president” take a ride in one.

A suggestion modified from Marcases’ comment earlier. Instead of a old yet proven S-61T, with a second with all the comm gear; replace this with the modern and proven three engined VH-101. Real shame VH-101 got canned the way it did though, with the bloated price and all. Now, its seems the whole process starts again, as with the KC-X program, lots of wasted time and money to follow unless they pull their finger out!

Another cynic across the ocean to the east of you : Seems like whenever a European-derived product wins a military competition, enough people jump up and down and scream like a toddler deprived of candy that the thing is rebid. America might be the land of the free, but it frequently demonstrates that it isn’t the home of the free market…

More deadly accidents have happend with other aircraft. All the short comings of the Osprey relate to combat capabilities, so there is no reason not to. As someone already pointed out, the Secret Service wants three separate aircraft, the Osprey makes the most sense as the escape vehicle for the president, speedier with a good number of seats.

Perfect for Obama. Who said the Pentagon wasn’t on top of the game! Now there’s a challenge Secret Service vs. Pentagon. I’m hoping they all get beamed aboard mother-ship and taken back to their planet; its costing too much to transport them.

Thumbs up to you — I lost my son in the Ospery on April 8, 2000 — perhaps this is a great idea, but not just him, I could name many others that need to accompany him.
Proud Mom of Cpl Kelly S. Keith, USMC 1/7/78–4/8/00
(I was just in AZ on April 8–11 for the ceremony)

I am totally against the Osprey. My nephew was killed April 2000 in a horrible crash along with 18 others. Even though he died a hero, this air craft will never be safe. However, after saying that, I would love for the President and all of Congress to fly around and have fun and let’s sit back and see what happens :)

News of Note:
V-22—was not selected the first time because of the ‘WH Rose Gardener’ –too much “down-wash’ from those BIG rotors!
SH-92 was a real competitor—H-71 won out as a pay back to GB for supporting the US during OEF/OIF.
I worked at the Pentagon—saw first-hand the POLITICS of all this—real shame.

Let’s see, serious economic problems here in the US as it is in the UK. Seepms appropriate to our economy to manufacturer as much stuff here as to “turf it out” to some other country. Just the early morning ramblings of an “old” retired Navy officer. Just my humble opinion.

Go visit the Air & Space Museum Udvar-Hazy annex at Dulles and see the first presidential helicopter used by Ike — a two-seater, no less!

The critics may give the V-22 a bad rap, but I read the Osprey was the bird of choice for many politicians visiting Iraq during the war. They enjoyed its speed and range combined with takeoff/landing on a dime.

Oh wow! I am appalled! Appalled I say. In true government fashion, their solution is to get a bigger hammer and longer nails for everything. They claim to be cost concious, but when it comes time for them to spend money they can always say they must have the latest and greatest gizmos for “security reasons”. Presumably, I think, the White House thinks they must have a rotary wing aircraft to move the POTUS from the White House to Andrews AFB. So, the obvious solution for cost and simplicity reasons is to move the White House. Why not call in the house movers on a slow weekend and just jack the sob up and roll it down to Andrews and set it up on the end of the runway? At least two problems are solved here. First and most importantly you get the White House out of that poisonous environment known as the Beltway and second you eliminate the need for Marine One and all the inherant costs associated with supporting it. Problem solved. What? That makes at least as much sense as getting a new jump chopper.

Ah… so you advocate him shutting down DC commerce anytime he needs to get to the airfield? (Which is VERY often.) Yeah… that makes complete sense, and that’s not even the part of your rant that makes the least sense.

There’s a little thing called security… you don’t put the president in random civillian craft nor do you let said craft land on the White House lawn.

From your comments it’s painfully obvious you don’t have the slightest clue as to what you’re talking about (such as the com package) so why bother with such long winded posts?

Let obama fly in the Osprey–maybe we’ll get lucky and he’ll go down–hopefully the crew will survive.

You sir have hit the nail on the head!

The Osprey was pre-sold to the Marine Corps as a technological advancement. In point of fact, it is unsafe at any speed but the Marines bought it and will have to suffer through it until a few more crash.

There are more than enough safe, proven and inexpensive helicopters on the world market to provision the President. The concept of providing a flying bunker from the White House lawn to the next stop is simply impractical but no one knows when to say ‘when’.

It is almost as bad with the Presidential limos. They are constructed almost like the new Oshkosh armored combat vehicle. The public story is that they are built on a 3/4 ton Chevy truck chassis but they are not. The only thing remotely ‘normal’ about them is that they have what looks from a distance to be a Cadillac body.

The government is insulating itself from the citizenry; especially in Washington. That entire concept does not bode well.
http://​www​.g2mil​.com/​V​-​2​2​s​a​f​e​t​y​.​htm

I doubt that the Golfer-in-Chief needs a V22. Barack and Michelle will have a hard time landing these aircraft anywhere near their next dinner-date anyhow. Warplanes for the warfighter.…. let Obama ride to his next campaign stop in choppers he has.

The HK53 is an assault rifle. Exactly how do you propose using one as a Presidential helicopter?

having worked on the CV-22 osprey ( airforce version) this aircraft is a great choice. But as for the MV-22 I would not put the presedient on. I have see first hand what problems the MV-22 had and has and how the marines wanted the plane so bad that they pushed major problems under the rug to get it. After the 1999 accident that killed 19 people the airforce stepped in and took over on flight test of the aircraft. The airforce version is now a 1,000 times safer and I would put my children on it. I believe that if the airforce was allowed to complete with the CV-22 osprey that it would nock all others out of the fight.

The only reason the Osprey will still be around is because they spent so much money on it. It’s like a Wall Street bank or General Motors: too big to fail. When it’s working perfectly, it does what it’s supposed to: land/takeoff like a chopper and fly faster than a chopper. But it doesn’t always work perfectly and when things go wrong, it puts it (and everyone aboard it) in a very dangerous position. It cannot land if it can’t rotate the engines to vertical. The people on board are screwed.

It has only a jerry-rigged turret scabbed on as an after-thought for self-defense, so it needs armed escorts, which aren’t as fast (remember going faster than a chopper is one of its selling points), so it has to slow down to stay with them. Add the cost of the escort choppers to the cost of an Osprey (and don’t forget toa dd the full cost: spares, training, and everything else that it takes to have two types in the inventory instead of one that can do the job without the escorts because another type would have decent self-protection for all but the worst situations).

The Army guys aren’t jealous that they don’t have Ospreys, they’re grateful.

having worked on the CV-22 osprey ( airforce version) this aircraft is a great choice. But as for the MV-22 I would not put the presedient on. I have see first hand what problems the MV-22 had and has and how the marines wanted the plane so bad that they pushed major problems under the rug to get it. After the 1999 accident that killed 19 people the airforce stepped in and took over on flight test of the aircraft. The airforce version is now a 1,000 times safer and I would put my children on it. I believe that if the airforce was allowed to complete with the CV-22 osprey that it would nock all others out of the fight.

Here’s the safest wager you’ll ever make: the Osprey will NEVER be “Marine One”. Not even in a weird parallel universe populated by doppelgamgers and evil twins. You can bet your own mother’s money on this. The bet is that safe.

I can do one thing very well. two things so-so and down it goes. The Osprey belongs in the scrap heap.

Didn’t Obummer cancel this like a year ago?

How are you going to position these things around ther world when the President goes over seas. Can.t dismantle and transport them in C-5s. Someone is smokin something. Not a good idea for stimulous spending. What we have no seems to be working just fine.With all the travel it won’t be long before Air Force One will require replacement.

Yesterday, Sen. Joe LIEberman, who can be trusted when it comes to Boeing, said the SBInet was a big failure and should be canceled. Johnny McCain called the program “disgraceful.” While DHS has been an incompetent program manager, Boeing has made it a matching pair, from the debacle of Project 28 (task 1) to the present.
And just figure, if they can’t do the acquisition and management of subs and technical development and cost and quality conrol of this relatively simple integration right, do you want to give Boeing the Tanker Buy sole source? Say what?

If it’s good enough for our “troops” ‚then it is good enough for our POTUS!

Obviously you have no knowledge of Marine One operations. No knowledge of the equipment involved, the number of helicopters involved, the maintenance requirements unique to any choice, the operational considerations and much more.

Obviously there are many, many things a civilian aircraft leased from a service couldn’t provide. The aircraft is flown, maintained and guarded by Marines and for good reason.

At least make an attempt at cognition before your next outburst.

I’m aware of refurbished craft, but when you look at the fact that the Poles have had more than one crash resulting in the death of top officials, one has to wonder. Their has also been concern voiced by many in that country that their air fleet is in dire need of upgrade.

Jeeze, guys and gals… Forget the Osprey. Too damn big to make a Presidential version, (Would be like using a Chinook instead of the current tricked-out version of the Blackhawk!)

If the Prez (Obama now.. but future CinCs, too!) needs a new VSTOL, put him in a hardened BA609 tilt rotor!! http://​www​.bellagusta​.com/​a​i​r​_​b​a​_​m​a​i​n​.​cfm http://​www​.youtube​.com/​w​a​t​c​h​?​v​=​o​c​O​F​M​3​1​l​OIo

You guys gotta remember… Marine One isn’t just to ferry the Prez to Edwards and AF-1… But it could serve for short hops, too — Like to NYC so POTUS and FLOTUS can have date nights on Broadway!!! :-)

It is quite obvious that many people here, mostly the ones who feel the need to add insults to their poorly thought out comments, desperately want the President to have new helicopter! Obviously a thin skinned helicopter, flying high over many potential sniper positions, is safer than an armored limo? Has anyone noted that the Taliban brought down many Hinds with large caliber rifles — not with MANPADS?
And I did not know that when the Presidential convoy left the White House — that all of DC was shut down! I thought it was just along his route? Are all of the factories in DC shut down, or does some commerce still proceed?
So my friends — you have all sent in your contributions to the Presidential Flying Lounge And Man Cave?? I think it is a very wasteful use of our money. We should just pay for it by the donations of Thunder350, jumper297, and all of those others who are so concerned with Presidential safety.
And while you are whipping out your checkbooks, can you explain how we prevent aircraft from landing on the White House lawn right now? You Cant!! Fortunately, people just don’t do that very often. Perhaps this indicates that it is not that big of a threat??
Perhaps you geniuses should write a second check to pay for the Presidential Dome??

Didn’t a guy recently get killed while joggin on the beach when an aircraft emergency landed on him?

Now what would the odds be of an osprey landing on top of the president while hes joggin? hmmm

And get him outta that expensive white house. Theres no reason for a dedicated presidential home.

There are quite cheap motels on highways somewhere. I’m sure of it.

;) Actually as a Dane I shouldn’t even comment on an issue like this. But you have an expensive president and we have an expensive queen… soo… :)

The thing I find most disheartening is the talk from some people on this post about how they surreptitiously hope the President dies. In a helicopter or not, such talk — they are not patriots, it’s disgraceful and it does not belong in a discourse of American military matters. And I am a Republican.

Let’s talk about how VH-71 was a bloated project (initiated by free-spending G Bush) which ran amok among inflated security and convenience concerns (does the POTUS really need THAT many helicopters), or how there are 4 or 5 already built helicopters from the “cancelled” program that are just being bypassed and sitting on a tarmac (why not use those 5?), or how the whole prez helo project became a victim of domestic politics in perfect-storm timing (John McCain is no neutral observer, nor is Lieberman-Sikorsky), or whether or not we should buy US-only (i think yes, but let’s not be hypocrites about free competition)…but mostly, let’s not be venomous about our duly elected President and imply wishes for his death. It should be sickening to any military man who truly believes in defending our democracy.

I am not sure that the Osprey is the perfect choice as the Only vertical lift aircraft for the White House but I think there is definitely a role for it. The speed and range of the v-22 mean that a lot of mid-range trips could be conducted directly from the White House as opposed to being ferried to Andrews for a flight on air force one. Imagine that the President could go directly from the White House to the UN in under an hour. It could be a door to door trip if there were a suitable LZ. Just about anything from Boston to Atlanta would be within the operational range of the v-22 and if you consider the time saved in transferring aircraft and motorcades to and from 747 capable airfields, a lot of the time differential goes away.

Can The V-22 add on defensive counter messures for safety and security of the prize package?

Osprey for President ? Somebody better double the security for Biden. The reason the Osprey is still around is that the Pentagon has $$$$$$$ Billions invested in it. They can’t say “I was wrong !” It is a dangerous thing to try to fly. Is there another aircraft in any service — ours or foreign — that requires as much training ?

You are asking someone to make and fly a vehicle with 3 missions — VTO, speed, carrying capacity -
Why not add land on water and operate under water too. It just doesn’t make sense ! An aircraft is not a “Swiss Army Knife” !

Just tear down the Washington monument turn the area in to a landing pad and call it The Obama memorial add a statue of Lenin and Marx. I would add Mohammad to that but that would be religious so we can’t do that anymore. Then we could create the ACLU covered walkway from the White House to his helo pad. We could hire some unschoolers to man it all. We’ve tossed the constitution might as well get rid of the other old crap laying around to in the name of change.…

Marine Aviation is an Oxy-Moron!

The obvious answer is an F-35B with a Presidential Pod. The President would go where the 25mm gun pod goes now. It would be much faster, with much better range, and it is designed to survive enemy air defenses…

I’ll bet this is Biden’s idea.

Rent a helicopter? You want the President of the United States to rent a helicopter? Maybe he should just take the Metro around DC. Some how I think the Secret Service and the DoD would have a big problem with that. No one can protect the President better then the SS and the U.S. Military flying Military equipment.

Go back to the poster who laid out the three distinct missions required. Osprey fits the evacuation mission perfectly — rarely used, need speed and range, and the heck with the WH Lawn. For intermediate missions to NYC? Might be a good fit, but the optics and the downwash make it tricky.

Note: I’ve spoken to Marine Osprey pilots who gave Obama rides from Baghdad to Jordan in their V-22, back when he was Candidate Obama, and visiting as a senator. The guy enjoyed the ride, the speed and the range, they reported.

Watch this space: Whether it’s the USMC version, or a derivative of the Air Force version flown by marines, the betting here is that the Osprey wins an or for 4 or 5 units for this application.

Cowboy and AA, I’m aware of the little 150’s dragonfly looking helos and should had mentioned them but they were rarely used, LBJ and Nixon really got into this with the larger helos as they came about and suddenly they were transporting the entire family and personal staff on them as well. With the personal staff now employed and various cabinet members they probably would be better off with a dozen chinooks.

5th crash…in a combat environment with a firefight going on in the vicinity and no official word yet on the cause. Not like it fell out of the sky on a clear blue Sunday afternoon.

F-16s suffer bird strikes 747s can come down too. The Osprey is a capable platform when properly piloted. Every aircraft has crashed at one point. The speed, versatility, and size make it an excellent candidate. The marine and air force pilots ive talked to say its a good bird and id say they know what their talking about.

Just horrible reporting. The V-22 is not a serious entry. The last one, the EH-101 ended up too small for all the junk they wanted to add, yet the V-22’s cabin is even smaller and it can lift only half the payload. It also produces far too much downwash for a pres helo, since you can’t blow away the waiting crowds as well as wine glasses and tents. In addition, it is not air transportable. It was considered a few years back, but the Marine pilots from HMX gave it low marks. The White House is on record as saying that one reason the V-22 was rejected was because safety is paramount. That caused a little stink at the time.

Finally, I know most are fooled by the Bell-Boeing public relations team, but the V-22 has no more range than comparable helicopters, and carries half as much. That is why the US Army and no one else on earth will even consider them. Then they are twice the cost to buy and operate, and the 20% ready rate in Afghanistan.

Bell has dropped the BA609 project since the FAA will not certify it as safe. It officially remains, but a research project by Italy’s Agusta.

The CV-22 officially entered service in 2008, with around 16 in service, yet two have been destroyed in crashes within the last year. One lost an engine and could not stay airborne, the other rolled while attempting to land above 4000 feet.

And Ospreys can crash– alot.

The UV22 Osprey is an awesome flying machine; the problems are during the take off and transition to forward thrust. The props are heavy and may be dip the nose during forward rotation and prop wash make the craft Pitch and roll much like a gyro. I hope they see the value of replacing the nacelles with the engines like on the X35; they would make a much smoother nozzel transitioning lift to forward thrust. the tail could be fitted for a jet to maintain level lift and make for faster and much easier wat to change direction. The jet engines are easier to protect with
armor protection
;; where props load up with lead and cause the craft to shake and shudder violently. The problem with its current design is they had an idea and failed to work outside the box. So much time and money has been spent on trying to make an original design work; if the design is flawed I would rather see them tryingvsomething else before the program gets scrapped. I feel this is a good platform to build on; where do we go from here?

That would make a awesome headline on the nightly news!

Just like any other aircraft can that is in the experimental stages!

You forget its Obama… he likes to spend money on alot of things. :)

Um… Fighter escorts?

It can refuel in air, so it could just fly right over the ocean.

Enemy air defenses that weren’t made in the 21st century.. but that’s another story.

Mrs. Harter,
Please accept my condolences for your loss. As a Cpl, he “was just getting started” as a Marine. By that, I mean he was now in charge of Marines.
I agree that others need to accompany the “president” when he rides in the Osprey. Let’s hope besides Barry, Harry & Nancy and entire WH staff go as well.
The Marines need to re-think about the type of troop carrier they need. The Osprey is too slow & dangerous.
Please, again, accept my condolences.
Take care and Semper Fi, Tom Knight

I agree to some extent but for different reasons — People are angry, He is one of the worst presidents since Jimmy Carter, and has no grasp or concerns for the American people and it is openly obvious. People have a right to wish and think what they want . You cannot claim them unpatriotic any more than you can our four fathers for having the same dislike of the government they served under. But they should keep those opinions off a public web site that can be easily traced back to them, we dont need any vets adding to DHS claim that we are all suspect terrorist. Really guys — point out his faults all you want but no talk of death wishes, it’s not in any of our best intrest.

Editor’s note: Please remember that personal attacks and vile or unsuitable language are grounds for being barred from this site. Rock and roll on the facts. Slam policies and politics but forgo calling each other names.

Some of you will note your posts were edited or deleted.

Thank you. Colin Clark

This new aviation week article says that the recent CV-22 crash left four dead and 16 injured. That must of been everyone, and with four dead, I’d guess most of the injured are in bad shape. Note they promptly destroyed the evidence.
http://​www​.aviationweek​.com/​a​w​/​g​e​n​e​r​i​c​/​s​t​o​r​y​_​c​han

Pretty sure he meant the CH-53K

We Americans don’t have a free market system, we have a capitalist system (sadly, and yes their is a difference between the two). Just like the rest of the western nations.

And Aviation Week and others have also reported the likely cause of the accident was not mechanical failure but brown out which effects all Helos (80% of the Helo crashes in Afpak) and wouldn’t be a factor in a VIP role. As to destroying the evidence, that is standard practice for SOCOM birds, as was also made clear in the various articles on Aviation Week and others. You really need to work harder on your conspiracy theories.

DaleAS — keep up the snarky comments like this!!! Soon, Colin will boot you off and the adults can go back to our conversations.

Unemployment going through the roof, jobs going overseas, companies not hiring. Expensive health care bill passes. And now we talk expensive helecopter for the prez, give me a break, where is the money??????

The F-35 can survive enemy air defenses made in the 21st century.

the princess-in-chief will probably want it painted pink

Except the Russian S-400.

Fellas, all this hatred and malcontent about leadership in our wonderful country is difficult for this old Army helicopter pilot with 36 year’s service to accept.

Let’s cut to the chase, instead.…..I’ve earned a right to expression after 1800 hours of combat flight hours and thousands more as an Instructor Pilot, trying to teach our junior aviators how to survive in wartime, life and death situations. Service from 1965 to 2001.

The V-22 Osprey is, at this early stage, still in an experimental category. I wouldn’t choose to pilot one, myself, given other options. I’d do it on mission orders, of course. Its history hasn’t been illustrious. Those several comments on this post that encourage its use as a replacement for the current mode seem almost invariably tilted in their anger towards present leadership that was elected by an almost 8 million american voter majority in 2008. Get over it! Your anger is misplaced by some wierd, misconceived allegiance to politicos instead of to your nation. Time to think for yourself, buddy!
If you refuse to accept the successes that are now becoming evident in our economy, in U.S. employment trends, in stock market graphics and in the earnest efforts of an administration intent on making better the condition of most middle and lower (financially) conditioned citizens, then continue listening to the naysayers who are less caring about our country than they are about regaining power for their partison party interests.….….…and ‘To Hell’ with the needs of the majority. Is that where you’re at??

The H-53 is the finest chopper ever devised. Sure, those in the present Presidential Fleet are outmoded.….……what do we expect after all these years of service?? Refurbish or manufacture four new ones.….…..refurbish the present Presidential “comforts and necessities” in each one of those, in it’s own order, into the newer model H-53’s; then, let’s proceed with the most reasonably cost effective and safest transport mode that is available to the country.

Trash the BS. Let’s look for genuine answers.
Gunslinger three-three
128th AHC
RVN, 1967–1970

Thank you!! Your insights are greatly appreciated.

Colin, you’re a real genius or maybe just drumming drama? The Navy is in charge and its run out of a program office in Pax River, Maryland. No big mystery. The real issue (as in most military acquisition programs) is the requirements folks (Pentagon) running amok (good idea fairy reigns supreme) and changing the requirement after the contract to design/build is signed.
The V22 is nice – but too tactical for presidential use — hot on landing, hard to transport and most importantly not big enough on the inside. Tisk-tisk…

well lets looks at it this way. he can take off from the wh and go to places that he has to in one aircraft not two.if needed air refuel also. this well save in the long run if used right…

First CH-53K is too big, the C/MV-22B is too small and both will require too much maintenance. S-92 has two engines verses the Augusta-Westland (AW) VH-71A with three engines. Also the VH-71A was not the final version there is a VH-71B that was in works and is dramatically better than the “A” Lockheed Martin who built the original cockpits for the VH-71 is now working with Skoryski (sp) on the S-92. Also Bell (From Fort Worth, Texas where the final aircraft was to be assembled) worked with the AW folks in england to develop the VH-71. Also if the average person knew the WH/DOD/Military requirements they would not be whinning on how many aircraft a POTUS would need. The VH-71 is a reengineered EH-101 that AW now sells as the AW-101, which is often refered to as the US-101. http://​www​.agustawestland​.com/​p​r​o​d​u​c​t​/​a​w​101

The Osprey is designed as a combat support aircraft, much too early to support presidential needs. Stay with the traditional helicopter and keep the Presidential mission and trnsportaion safe.

That’s retarded. The CV is the same aircraft as an MV, just with different aircraft survivability equipment and fuel configuration.

It is time the president get’s an A/C. That can remove him and selected menbers from the white house
to a safe place 2 or 3 hunderd miles in minutes not hours. This is not the 1940’s. Old people move slow
and think old. We are 50 years past the helo birth. The space shuttle will soon be past history. Why move
our Chief of staff around in a Model T.

So you’re saying that a fleet of TAV-8As should be kept on standby at the White House, right?

BTW, we’re also 70+ years past the gas turbine birth, so I guess jets are Model T’s, too…

JL

Rent a helo for Marine-1 ???? Its always the “new math” type guys who hide when the sh!t hits the fan and everybody in the country is asking why in hell was Potus riding a Hertz helo. When the brass wants some azz or congress wants a scape goat it’s always some poor guy who thought it was stupid, but had to follow orders who is taking the blame… Before you go changing what is ask why it is first. Gotta love’em but this kinda reminds me of a brand new LT telling a bunch of 0-7s about how to “properly” call in a fire mission.… Was kinda funny till someone got hurt, but then again it always is.…

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