Gates Fires At Carriers, Subs, EFV

Gates Fires At Carriers, Subs, EFV

In his first speech to the Navy League, Defense Secretary Robert Gates laid out a grim portrait of a smaller fleet, one with fewer aircraft carriers, few or no new submarines and a sharply curtailed expeditionary capability for the Marines.

Gates told a somber audience today that he did “not foresee any significant top-line increases in the shipbuilding budget beyond current assumptions. At the end of the day, we have to ask whether the nation can really afford a Navy that relies on $3 to $6 billion destroyers, $7 billion submarines, and $11 billion carriers.” On top of that, as the current wars “recede, money will be required to reset the Army and Marine Corps, which have borne the brunt of the conflicts. And there will continue to be long-term – and inviolable – costs associated with taking care of our troops and their families.” Bottom line: no “significant top-line increases in the shipbuilding budget beyond current assumptions.”

Gates also fired a clear shot across the bow at Marine Commandant Gen. James Conway. Conway told DoD Buzz several weeks ago that the Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle was on track and performing well and remained a core commitment of the Marines as they seek to rebuild their ability to mount major amphibious operations. And the first EFV prototype is being unveiled by the Marines tomorrow in a public ceremony.


So Gates asked rhetorically, “what kind of new platform is needed to get large numbers of troops from ship to shore under fire – in other words, the capability provided by the Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle. No doubt, it was a real strategic asset during the first Gulf War to have a flotilla of Marines waiting off Kuwait City – forcing Saddam’s army to keep one eye on the Saudi border, and one eye on the coast. But we have to take a hard look at where it would be necessary or sensible to launch another major amphibious landing again – especially as advances in anti-ship systems keep pushing the potential launch point further from shore. On a more basic level, in the 21st century, what kind of amphibious capability do we really need to deal with the most likely scenarios, and then how much?”

While the Marines fended off efforts by Gates and others to reform their expeditionary role during the Quadrennial Defense Review, the SecDef clearly has not given up.

After Gates took on the Marines, he moved on to aircraft carriers, perhaps the holiest of holies for the surface Navy. “Our current plan is to have eleven carrier strike groups through 2040. To be sure, the need to project power across the oceans will never go away. But, consider the massive over-match the U.S. already enjoys. Consider, too, the growing anti-ship capabilities of adversaries. Do we really need eleven carrier strike groups for another 30 years when no other country has more than one? Any future plans must address these realities,” he said.

(Buzz readers will remember that we reported the QDR was on track to slice the carrier fleet to nine groups and the EFV.)

In case no one had yet gotten his general message that Navy and Marine Corps platforms face the axe, he made it explicit. “But, mark my words, the Navy and Marine Corps must be willing to reexamine and question basic assumptions in light of evolving technologies, new threats, and budget realities. We simply cannot afford to perpetuate a status quo that heaps more and more expensive technologies onto fewer and fewer platforms – thereby risking a situation where some of our greatest capital expenditures go toward weapons and ships that could potentially become wasting assets.”

Lest anyone point to China and its burgeoning blue water presence, Gates laid out the arguments that the Navy’s own deputy secretary, Bob Work, made before leaving the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessment: “Potential adversaries are well-aware of our overwhelming conventional advantage – which is why, despite significant naval modernization programs underway in some countries, no one intends to bankrupt themselves by challenging the U.S. to a shipbuilding competition akin to the Dreadnought race prior to World War I.”

Comparing sub and carriers to dreadnoughts must leave ship drivers bereft. After all, this is the generation that oversees the greatest, most potent mix carrier. And he hammered home just how tough both the budget and congressional environments are, saying, “we have to accept some hard fiscal realities. American taxpayers and the Congress are rightfully worried about the deficit. At the same time, the Department of Defense’s track record as a steward of taxpayer dollars leaves much to be desired.” Then he mentioned that he would be addressing “the issues surrounding political will and the defense budget” at a Saturday speech at the Eisenhower library. The tepid applause that greeted Gates’ speech demonstrated pretty clearly that the Navy, Marine Corps and their friends got the message.

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hara-kiri

part 2

The argument about the deficit rings hollow — seeing as how much of it was artificially created by the current Administration. The deficit was about 100 billion (too high!) under most of President Bush’s administration, rising to 400 billion the last budget year. Since then the Administration has spent freely on High Speed Rail, broadband for isolated ski resorts, and lots of other stimulus projects.

The DoD sure could do a better job, but we have deployed a lot of really outstanding equipment overseas for years. In Desert Stoem, the Abrams tank (often maligned) did well against the T-72 even though we were fighting Saddam Hussein’s armies on their own soil. The F-15E (though expensive) has been a great system for use in Afghanistan. The US has not been invaded for decades, we must be doing something right. We have had the first and second (9/11) World Trade Center attacks, but that was not a DoD mission.

So — let’s improve the system while retaining it’s success. That is the trick.

part 2

I would argue we need a very strict policy/strategy that puts a Berlin Wall between development and fielded equipment. The services may fund developmental programs, but they are not able to fit into strategy documents or acquisition plans until they are delivered and operationally proven. If we don’t fund it (make a program of record) until it is proven it works and can be manufactured, (i.e. give me 20 of them by next year) we prevent over commitment of the services to failing programs. We also prevent the services from arguing that they cannot upgrade their current equipment because they’re developing its replacement; which in turn contractors that produce and field what they promise, and limits the contractors who can’t manage their development from holding the DoD hostage.

I’m sorry, I cannot take this speech with any degree of seriousness.

The speech does not mention once China. At all. It is clear that China will be a powerful military force in the decades to come, and he doesn’t mention it at all. This is a speech solely interested in the short term, and not in the long term. He mentions China obliquely, but not directly. A sign of, shall we say, unwillingness to be blunt where it matters? That sign shows that this is a speech heavily influenced by the political needs imposed either in the defense department or from outside.

Finally, there is a bit of a non-sequitor in the speech. He argues that anti –ship weapons are ever increasing, and yet he wants to continue the LCS, which is wholly dependent on others for protection? Likewise, he is upset that the SSBN will have the stealth of an attack submarine? That particular line makes no sense, the current class of SSBNs were much quieter than their attack sub contemporaries.

What is clear is that this is a speech for Congress, not the Navy, and he is trying to frame the debate about the budgets in the future. Specifically, his desire to make the Army and Marine Corps (soon to be a second army), the focus of the military.

If America isn’t willing to maintain the Navy and Marine Corp, is there any hope for us? I doubt it.

Dude, WTF does this have to do with the article? Your parents probably said the same thing about your generation when you were young.
This is an article about the future of our military, not your fear of gay marriage. I’m no psychiatrist, but you’ve got some deeply seeded issues you’re not aware of.

All the best,
the generation that will ruin America.

part 1

There are many approaches to this article.

First, we have to admit that Sec Gates has a good point. We have set as our goal to be able to control all of the seas of the world simultaneously! This is very expensive. Other Navys must only control a small part of the world at one time — their coast, maybe hope to control the Mediterranean for example, etc. Our Navy wants to be able to fight in the Atlantic and the Pacific and the Indian and Arctic, etc. Is this a reasonable goal? Even I must admit that I don’t want to have to spend that kind of money, we are not that threatened.

or the 80 billion to bailout Government Motors to keep the obama voters who get six figures to bolt bumpers on a car.…

Any discussion of the number of SSBn’s we currently need and the number we’ll need in the future is held hostage to the President’s plan to remove multiple warheads from submarine-launched ballistic missiles, and to do away with the other sub-launched cruise missiles.

By this decision, the President has reduced the effectiveness of the SSBN fleet by two thirds and rendered impotent any non-SSB nuclear retaliatory capability.

Given this reality, how can Navy force planners and JSTPS ops pl;anners realistically determine ANY rational requirements for the number — - and capabilities — - of the future SSBN fleet?

It’s all borrowed money folks…we never had it to begin with.

part 1

I just Secretary Gates keeps up the pressure. He’s been at this for almost two years and you’re finally just beginning to see the ripple effects on industry. Another step he could implement is firing people for turning in SciFi novels and platitudes called “Strategy Documents/Roadmaps.” Make them focus on the next 5 years with proven and field-able technology, and get them out of the realm of technology prognostication. This could go a long way in curbing the Pentagon Paradox of having BILLIONS to spend on missions/technologies which seem highly unlikely/improbable, but suddenly cannot find the funds for small upgrades & proven combat multipliers.

To expand on my comment further…Gates is very hypocritical. He wants to cut defense spending, but fails to endorse programs already in production that do work. He is for the F35 development, but it is already out classed, in every aspect of combat in which it will perform. He will not endorse more buys of current fourth generational fighters, with up graded engines and avionics they will be able to perform as well as the F35. But yet, he preaches the virtues of defense spending.

In regards to carriers, it does makes sense to seriously reevaluate the number of carriers we currently have considering that China is poring alot of money into anti access weapons, that will further negate carriers utility.

We have gotten so used to having everything for every potential situation that MIGHT arise that we have lost all sense of perspective as to what is a reasonable threat.

More people should have thought about what two consecutive wars (with no increases in taxes) would do to future acquisition– somethings got to give.

The tendency is to reject out of hand what Gates is saying, becuase he works for a Democratic Administration turning a blind eye to social debt spending, but that doesn’t mean that the Secretary of Defense doesn’t have a point.

We could afford the military if the US government did not give away 13 trillion dollars during the bailout. That money is gone, and is in the hands of someone, but not in the hands of the American public. It is the biggest robbery in world history. This administration bankrupts the country and then begins to dismantle it. It is not a surprise.

Religious and political freedoms are next on the agenda and America is not even making a whimper. If the administrations words and promises are to be believed, and they are not kidding, huge changes are already on the way.
The youth do not seem to care enough about religion and politics to deal with the system. As long as they have their phones and their e-things they seem to be happy. They just do not think it affects them or that they have any ability or even a responsibility to resist it. Without the youth, this country is finished and will be nothing but a shell of what it once was.

Dismantling religious freedoms, which this administrations seems to imply is the source of much trouble, is at our door. If a person believes that is not possible, pay attention to what is going on in the news.

It may start with laws that enforce opinion among those who already work for any government agency, state or federal. A removal of any legal right to speak or act against homosexuals no matter what the reason or agenda could be a starting point. In our current moral condition it would be easy choice and an easy place to start. The media would support and encourage such a law.

For an example: if they start to teach primary schools and the children in them, that same sex marriages are the same as any other relationship, and someone protests what they teach the children in school on a religious basis, these protesters working for the government would be facing the loss of their jobs and possible imprisonment. They will either have to quit their jobs and somehow pay for a private school or be quiet and avoid problems. Anyone who believes that homosexuality is a sin would be on the agenda and face removal or termination unless they remained silent and unseen. The right to have a personal opinion and the right to speak about it in public would come under assault. The change from political correctness to federal law is only a step and a small step at that.

The right to have a public opinion is the agenda.

The government cannot remove the human right to have an opinion but they can make having an opinion different from theirs very difficult and painful. If you have your rights only in private, it means nothing. Rights are not rights if you have to hide them. And I thought George Orwell only wrote a novel when he wrote “1984”.
The government wants to be the source of all our rights, make no mistake about it.

Let me be clear, I do not believe that this administration cares for homosexuals more than past administrations, but the key to legal control of the nation, is the removal of religious concepts such as sin. If you have no right from God to speak up, the state can decide what you have the right to believe and the state will enforce it. There will be no unalienable rights in this new America.

The true issue will not be protections for homosexuality at all, but the control over the law and the minds of the public. Once the government establishes that kind of law in any area, it will spread and the people will get used to it. Toss out carrots for those who comply easily, and punish harshly the first few who resist the law and the whole mass of the public will fall in line. The rest of the public might even begin to blame those who still fight for their rights as the source of the problem.
Once the Constitution of the United States is redefined, giving the government all rights, public and governmental it is over. The next step is the draft and forced military or public obligation. The rest is just reeducation and time.

Our military has kept America and her children safe from harm. Our veterans have given their lives so that this country could remain the land of the free and the home of the brave. It is dangerous out there and the United States must maintain the ability to move on the oceans freely against all adversaries. Now is not the time to downsize the best military in the world.

But America is broke and the bill has not yet come home. When it does, everything will change.

God help us, and God bless the United States of America.

Oh, so NOW he jumps on the budget bandwagon.

I’d take him a little more seriously if he didn’t support LockMart all along in their mishandling of the JSF program. Now the “cheap” compliment to the F-22 costs as much as the Raptor itself.

Still though, it would have been worth a chuckle to see the Navy League audience during the speech.

Think of how many EFVs, F-22s and F-35s could be purchased for the 8 Billion Obama’s “high speed” rail boondoogle. Welcome to Barry’s 19th century 3d world America where we will all eventually live in huts like his relatives…

There is way too much focus on current asymmetric threats, and not enough on the battle field of tomorrow. Gates does have a point though, in that the DoD is too focused on programs that do not work. How ever, to gut the industrial base and cap future weapons programs (F22 for example ) is squarely absurd. Why would you want to gut future weapons development and destroy the industrial capability we have to produce weapons in times of war? Obama and his administration is gutting the capability of this country to defend its interests world wide. If the defense department thinks getting rare minerals for defense projects is hard now, just wait 5–10 years, and witness how history will be made as the United States industry cannot produce a thing because of mineral shortages. Cutting the nuclear triad and dismantling the ssbn is just stupid..especially with the Russians history of treaty violations. Cutting the nations bomber fleet and missile fleet is tupid, as the Russians continue to develop mobile ICBMs, and field them. Obama seems to be in the belief that the world will be made safer by dismantling our 1st strike capability, and this is very dangerous for us indeed.
Current trends in military spending need to be reversed. And we need to make it clear that it does.

Listen, there are ne secret weapons being developed, they are light weight and highly accurate are range. The can be used on the sea, in the air and on the ground. And the are dirt cheap, why for the cost of a Carrier you can have a life time supply. They so cheap wecan bail out lots of companaies and the many people who purchase houses they cannot afford. I mean this will modernize warfare and reduce expenditures. Ladies and Gentleman boys and girls and idiots of all ages I introduce the SPITBALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To all the delusional and lost people who voted for the Wizard of Oz and his merry cabal of Progressives that is what you military is going to stocked with, no F22, less carriers, no new generation of LVT’s, how will we ever contact the lions and tigers and bears Oh my! I guess through peace and love if the SPITBALLS do not work.

Do you want rel change We the people can believe in the please get the vote this November totry and turn things around!

“we are not that threatened. ”

Your correct, however.….. If you havent noticed we have been protecting our allies and our interestes ever since the end of WW2. Let me ask you this? How are we going to support multiple combat/humanatarian mission locations like the 2 we are in now along side numerous other side situations like Haiti, and Operations in horn of africa, south america and the pacific? Sec Gates can propose the questions all he wants but he needs to ask his superiors why we (military) are over tasked? I for 1 will gladly hang up my uniform if they get rid of numerous ships and keep up the same tempo of operations. I have a family too.

Whats the point of a non expeditionary Marine Corps?

The guy needs to do his research prior to asking those questions. Go back and look at deployment cycles of ship class types. I can understand if they were not being utilized but they are being over utilized and shipboard manning is dropping while deployments are increasing.

Not much new here as it seems to follow with the SECDEFs goal of avoiding “exquisite” systems. He is right, we can’t afford $3 billion destroyers, especially when we could buy three, good enough, destroyers for $1 billion a piece. A $7 billion dollar SSBN is also clearly way to expensive, especially given the threat, and we should be looking to reduce costs. However, there are a few deceptive remarks made.
– The fact that other nations don’t have as many carriers as the US isn’t relevant. We use our carriers differently. For instance, the fact that other nations have diesels subs and FACs doesn’t mean we need them. If you want two carriers on station all the time, you need 10–11 carriers and 10 CVWs.
– Expensive ships may be much cheaper in the long run. Reducing the size of the CVN crew by 1000 or so can save a minimum of $7.5 billion over the life of the ship. Add in the $2 billion+ you save by avoiding midlife refueling and an $11 billion carrier makes a lot of sense compared to a $6 billion carrier.

Out classed by?

If we had wrapped up Afghanistan and/or Iraq in a year or less this argument would be mute.

Just outsource the industrial base, like they’re doing with the tanker.

Build multi-purpose ships in Korea; when these vessels are not being used to transport Marines, they can be leased to the Chinese to transport their junk to Walmart.

Buy Chinese AFV’s and COIN air craft from Embraer.

Aircraft carriers & expensive air wings? Who needs them? The UK is doing OK without.

Submarines? Buy AIP boats from Sweden and Germany.

After they give the euros the tanker contract and the congress rolls over, the rest will be easy.

The site currently attracts some conspiratorial and far out ideas, so I was glad to see your well reasoned reply.

Yes you have a good point that the military is stretched thin with operations all over the world. These are not classic military operations and do not require any of the capable weapon systems that we have! If our military is to be a quick reaction group to help people recover from hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunamis, etc — we are buying the wrong kind of stuff. If we are to help people recover from forty years of self destructive war and rebellion — we are buying the wrong kind of stuff.

We need to decide what the military is — and buy the equipment they need. I for one grow tired of the US being the major funder of every world problem — even when people have destroyed their own country and it’s infrastructure. Then we have to come fix it?

The military needs to be able to react if people attack us — if they get mad because they are ignorant and starving — and they blame us and strike, we need to strike back.

This follows the familiar pattern from Mr. Gates and his minions:

1. Leak to the media that you will be addressing wasteful spending at a speaking engagement
2. Put military leadership on the spot during the speech
3. Get the media all wound up at the huge waste which in turn puts pressure on the Senate to investigate/act
4. Engage in a political witch hunt and kill the perceived offending program(s) like the Raptor
5. Ignore and belittle any real potential threats

It convenient that Gates is so concerned about cutting costs considering his past support for the most wasteful military program in history, the Joint Strike Fighter.

Its all smoke and mirrors, and Mr. Gates as usual is a legend in his own mind.

Why not just admit the US mission of protecting the world’s sea lanes, which bring resources from Russia and Iran to China and the finished goods everywhere, are not going to be attacked by Russia, Iran, and China. Right now the mission of the US military is to provide ‘inviolable’ benefits for former employees of the US government and their children and grand children and … . Axillary beneficiaries are Universities, mostly staffed with non US nationals at the technical level, and defense contractors that ‘in source’ their work to US universities due to lack of technically competent employees.

A better idea would be restructure the US military into something around 500,000 MEN stationed in the US, and hope that some sort of conflict starts in Eurasia. That will ensure benefits are not violated and offer the option of ramp-ping up for a future conflict. Currently you go to war with the military you got, not the one that is needed. (I talked to Don about this, he agreed)

If the aircraft carriers can go why not Okinawa? I know it’s strategically located near everything, sun, food, fun, nice schools, amiable (until recently) people. Bad neighborhood. Yes right.

There isn’t one. The USMC exists to be the expeditionary amphibious force in readiness. Throughout history, there have been detractors of the USMC, and we have survived every one of them. I am sure it will survive again. America loves her Marines.

There isn’t one. The USMC exists to be the expeditionary amphibious force in readiness. Throughout history, there have been detractors of the USMC, and we have survived every one of them. I am sure it will survive again. America loves her Marines.

The site currently attracts some conspiratorial and far out ideas, so I was glad to see your well reasoned reply.

Yes you have a good point that the military is stretched thin with operations all over the world. These are not classic military operations and do not require any of the capable weapon systems that we have! If our military is to be a quick reaction group to help people recover from hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunamis, etc — we are buying the wrong kind of stuff. If we are to help people recover from forty years of self destructive war and rebellion — we are buying the wrong kind of stuff.

We need to decide what the military is — and buy the equipment they need. I for one grow tired of the US being the major funder of every world problem — even when people have destroyed their own country and it’s infrastructure. Then we have to come fix it?

The military needs to be able to react if people attack us — if they get mad because they are ignorant and starving — and they blame us and strike, we need to strike back.

“Whats the point of a non expeditionary Marine Corps?”

You can have an expeditionary Marine Corps without the EFV. The real questions we should be asking are not only about budget, but about roles… why do we have a Marine Corps that’s bigger than most of the world’s armies? They may be the proud, but they certainly aren’t the few anymore. We basically have two competing armies right now. If we’re going to look at budgets, this is exactly the kind of big picture things we need to be looking at.

Good Morning Folks,

It feels good to be right, so other then saying brovo Sec. Gates, cut more. I won’t have more to say on this till new issues come up.

It wound appear that, those peculiar institutions of winger tanks are no longer at the table and that the defense industry that has been paying them hundreds of millions in lobby fees to peddle there swords have not got their money’s worth.

Now to the blame game. Of course the wingers are going to blame President Obama after all he is two un-excusable things Black and a Democrat.

Though if you look beyond your own twisted winger propaganda you will see that if you need somebody to blame it’s President Bush (41). It was Bush(41) who decided that the Navy would build five and retire seven hauls a year, the numbers have caught up with the Navy, after almost 20 years. It was during the Bush (41) term that the real-estate speculators driven BRAC happened that closed needed coastal bases that had valuable real-estate, closed ship yards( the ones that private industry under the Reagan admin. would buy for almost nothing) and keep bases in the middle of the desert.

What’s next. Well big defense won’t take this laying down and will take suitcases full of money to the hall of Congress, look for the hinges to be taken off the door to Congressman Dicks office and a night/weekend depository drop to be installed. In the end though this is the way it will be. The big guys will merge once again, the BP spill in the Gulf might drive out a couple of shipyards. I wouldn’t want to be vested in a defense job right now.

The winger tanks mostly will stay open, they know that sooner or later a big defense Republican administration will be back, they will cut back on staff and do a Valley Forge, but there will alway be members of Congress who will need to be shown the green, oops I mean the light.

There is more to what Sec. Gates said last Sunday but I will let Greg and Colin bring it up. Other then one item if the LCS hits a $ billion per unit, the Bandini will hit the fan and the whole LCS program could be scrapped like the FCS, F-22 and NLOS-LS.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

“The military needs to be able to react if people attack us”

This is exactly what we do NOT need to do. Providing a forward presence in order to deter those attacks is much more in line with the current hopefully the upcoming revision of the NSS. If Sec Gates would like to provide the means and ways to satisfy the ends of the National Strategic Goals, then I am sure our military will gladly step up to the plate as we have over the last 300 years. If however, the National goals are set, and then the tools are withdrawn or the tempo increases due to a reduction in force size, I invite the Secretary to talk to the families of those service members who deploy more than they are home.
And as for responding to the full range of military operations to include Humanitarian Assistance, Disaster Relief, etc, the military is the best suited for those roles as we have the superior training, tools and procedures in place to handle such things. It is part of our American ethos to come to the aid of those in need.
Just my .02

Speaking of your two cents… Actually, you are willing to spend the money to position the military to respond to disasters world wide. I have no objection, but really is it our job to do that? Why not divide the world up into regions and get the Europeans, Chinese, etc to supply forces to do that? Why is the US the lead in all areas of the world? I am just not willing to promise to do that. Call me greedy but I don’t want to spend the money to allow the US military to respond to all disasters all the time.

do you have an actual point or just have to resort to if you dont agree with me your racist,

The government forced foward projection on the military, not the other way around. Most of us joined to defend the US and not Japan — Korea — Europe and so on and would gladly be based back home rather than over sea. That would save enough to completely rebuild the military with all new equipment on its own — Add to that if we shut down all the American embassy over sea’s we would save evn more money. Add to it again stop giving aid to foreign militaries and governments and we would save even more funding ourselves. But they are not going to do this because they dont see a need — so as long as we have AMERICAN forces serving and civilians living/working throughout the world we need to be able to protect them 24/7 and that requires a large and capable maritime force just as it always has.

Good Afternoon Folks,

Just to add some fuel to the fire. Today France announced it was going into construction of a 295ft. Anti-Pirate Patrol Boat, to be build in the DCNS Yard.

The French will be starting delivery in 18 months. The price $30 million euros, or $39 million UDS per haul. For the price of a DD 51 we could by 50 of these for the price of a single LCS (today it’s $785 million) we could buy 20 of the Anti-Pirate Patrol Boats.

At this point why do we need the LCS period.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

That’s why we can waste money on major weapons systems that never deploy, but not have enough body armor when needed. It was the generals fault.

Anyone else ready to agree that the Obama regime, the Gates of hell, and the Joint Chiefs of Butt Kissers are readying our nation for destruction?

This regime will destroy our nation morally, economically, and militarily.

Can we please have just a little sanity in the discussion. The US spends more on defense than all the countries in the world put together! Can’t we pare back a LITTLE? Does this really make sense? And WHAT does this have to do with same sex marriages? Get a grip!

Can we please have just a little sanity in the discussion. The US spends more on defense than all the countries in the world put together! Can’t we pare back a LITTLE? Does this really make sense? And WHAT does this have to do with same sex marriages? Get a grip!

Dow May 3rd: Six figures to put on bumpers at GM? My neighbor worked 10 hour days 6 days a week and sometimes 7 to earn what he made. It’s a function of hours worked more than what you make an hour. Incidently the foreign manufactures use up Americans and cast them off when they get old or hurt never to be heard of again. Some of the workers build engines, transmissions, and electrical components so they aren’t exactly just putting bumpers on you insulting SOB. Go buy another foreign car and send the corporate profits overseas. No wonder America is screwed with thinking like yours.

Russia, China, Cambodia, Mexico, Sweden, Ireland and Angola haven’t been invaded,either, so their DOD’s must be doing something right, too.

In response to the EFV statement,the Marines are using Veitnam era AAV’s or P7’s as we call them at the rebuild facility I happen to work at,they are made of aluminum with absolutely no armor and are being used beyond their intended purpose(they get blown apart due to IED’s).The new EFV is long overdue,I’m prior Army and we always had the good equipment while the Marines always get the hand me downs,they deserve something brand new for a change and the new EFV is one badass AAV.We need to continue to have the biggest and baddest military in the free world,we worked hard to make it that way.True England doesn’t need or have a big military,they’re not the most hated country on God’s green earth,we hold that title,that was in response to another post.We need to get that socialist prick out of office,it’s simple as that.

I find everytime we downgrade the Military we end up spending a great deal more catching up. This as a problem Regan had when he took office and had to borrow from Social Security and look where we are now. Stupid politicians.…..

Bob Puharic,

GET WITH THE PROGRAM! I WENT TO WAR FOR MY COUNTRY & NOW VERY DISABLED BUT WOULD NOT CHANGE A THING! THATS PATRIOTISM! WHERE WERE U? WERE U IN THE WAR? IF NOT, U HAVE NO IDEA WHAT PATRIOTISM MEANS! WATCHING IT ON UR NICE WARM COUCH WHILE I WAS DODGING BULLETS! SO I THINK “SHUT UR POT HOLE” TILL U ACTUALLY HAVE BEEN THEIR!

Wow, a totally incomprehensible reply. You don’t often see those.

Do you have any idea of the trouble that Russia, China, Cambodia, Mexico, and Angola have had over the last thirty years? A definition of invaded is difficult when their borders are so porous and so often crossed. Sweden and Ireland have lots of trouble with Muslim immigrants, you should know, and the fact that they are both under the US umbrella might affect their invasion status.

Keep up the good work, and keep staying away from those irritating history books.

The UK is building an aircraft carrier now:http://​en​.wikipedia​.org/​w​i​k​i​/​H​M​S​_​Q​u​e​e​n​_​E​l​i​z​a​b​e​th_
Having gone for over 3 decades without, and really feeling it in the Falklands Island conflict, they’ve reversed an assessment that you now want to adopt. We don’t need to repeat their mistake to learn their lesson.

Oops, no need to control the seas anymore! Oops, we are going to need more floating oil wells to plug our aircraft into to make targets on the other side of the world. Appears Gate’s skin is wearing off. Oops maybe we should increase taxes. What happened to the money? Maybe increase import taxes to bring back productivity to the USA and thus be able to hold an effective military until 2040. Kinda hard to have Socialism in the Military. I know cut back the aircraft, the ships and personnel in the service. Next will be a private military to surround the Commander –in –crime at the White wash house in DC. Go figure we don’t need any upgrades to our equipment in the future.… Please don’t let the government touch anything else in America, it can’t run what it has now.

Analogies to “spitballs” is really unfounded. Is this the final “assault” on religion ? Come on folks — Calm the hell down. We have 11 carriers at sea with a a complement of support ships. It is way too much to keep funding. Back in 1984 the United Kingdom went to war with Argentina over the Falkland Islands. As their carrier force bore down on Argentina, the big question was do the Argentinian force have Exocet missiles. With that technology Argentina would have won that war. Fast forward 26 years, who would want Exocet missiles with the technology available today. The carrier fleet is outdated. The H.W. Bush should have been scraped as should the Reagan before they sailed off the drawing boards. There is too much out there to take these ships out. Sailing them around the world as a threat is called “war mongering”. War with another sophisticated enemy is likely to be in space or the internet. Floating acreage is out. Get with the program and stop talking about “loosing some right(s) you think you had. Bailouts for the banks is over. It was a national security issue. George Bush signed the law with Obama and McCain in the wings giving their vote in the Senate. It was the only bipartisan bill passed in years ! You are not in a breadline right now because it got signed.

History will show that Gates was just slightly better then McNamara as Sec of Defense. By about the width of a palying card!

Thank god this old veteran will be dead before the effects of his and the Presidents “budget over actual need” mentality has adverse effects on the American people and our nation.

I think probably we need to start transforming the navy to better deal with 21’st century piracy and water born insurgency.

I think probably we need to start transforming the navy to better deal with 21’st century piracy and water born insurgency.

Wall Street’s excesses, it seems have sunk 2 carrier groups. We are now living with the consequences of the attack Wall Street launched on the US economy. Gates is right; consider that we haven’t changed our force structure since the fall of the USSR in ’91. The world has changed. Our force structure must as well, including integrating the real choices Wall Street has given us.

That’s why we can waste money on major weapons systems that never deploy, but not have enough body armor when needed. It was the generals fault.

The US Navy has more tonnage than the next 17 largest navies of the world COMBINED. This is insane. Cut the ting down to size.

There are many, many loyal atheists in the US. This type of religious fanaticism is a symptom of what’s wrong with America, not what’s right. Leave the religion at church and focus on real solutions.

And if you look at the young men and women serving in the US military, you find little of the laziness you describe. Our young soldiers and sailors are heroes.

This type of seditious hatred of our President is uncalled for. The lies spread about him are ugly and divisive. You owe an apology to every loyal American who voted for Obama, as I’m proud to admit I did.

Referring to Obama as “Sanford and Son” is a racist euphemism. It’s ugly, arrogant and stupid, as well as disloyal. I sincerely question your patriotism

Let’s see. On Feb. 19, Secretary Gates told Congress of the Navy’s intent to let women down sub hatches. Congress gave a full speed ahead last week.

2 SSBNs, 2 SSGNs (B/G crews = 4 crews) won’t need modifications to accommodate the first women to come aboard by the end of 2011 or early 2012. Three female officers (15-months training) will share one stateroom on each of the “big boy” subs. They’ll also share the head (occupied sign) and shower (ditto).
These Navy women trailblazers as well as male submariners will be dotting i’s, crossing t’s to make the transition to coed subs WORK.

Los Angeles class (688) subs have been SUBFOR’s backbone, i.e. workhorses for decades. (I remember in the early 80s when these boats were always i“broken,:” in for repairs). We must replace the aging 688s Of the 62 LA 688s, 19 have been “retired.”

Will Defense Secretary Gates Pay for These? These are being replaced by the Virginia class SSNs and with the Navy’s goal of 30. Six have been built and are serving the country; one more will be launched this year. Seven are in construction or scheduled. These technology-advanced subs are “platforms,” each capable of carrying xxx number of special operations forces and underwater delivery vehicle, and armed with xxx number non-nuclear vertically launched Tomahawk guided land-attack missiles.

Women aboard SSNs? Awhile back, the Navy, when considering lifting the ban on women serving aboard subs, SSNs were considered. Now, if the Virginia class boats were to be made coed, costly modifications would have to made for those scheduled for future construction. Or will women serve only on the 4 SSGNs, 14 SSBNs? (Scuttlebutt is that more SSBNs will be converted to SSGNs (four former SSBNs were converted to SSGNs in the 2000s.) Will there be a budget to do this, Defense Secretary Gates?

More about Secretary Gates. What budget did he have in mind when he notified Congress that women would be submariners? Beyond the Navy’s cost of providing leadership training to sub COs and other officers, COBs, and when enlisted women come aboard the boomers and guided missile subs, there will be some modifications needed for privacy. And then there are the Virginia class subs on the drawing board.

I’ll be watched the future of Secretary Gates’ call for reducing the Navy fleet and, especially, his intent for the subs.

Sum this up in just 5 words! “GATES IS A TOTAL MORON”!

Lets just say that this Administration has KILLED this GREAT COUNTRY!!!!!!! If it keeps up, we will be attacked & NO MEANS to defend ourselves & we will for the first time, I can’t believe this, we will LOSE THE WAR! Obama has got to go! I can’t believe how bad he has made this country! We r no longer the WORLD SUPER POWER!

At least the GOP will take back Congress in 7 months, & the majority by probably a historical margin. Then Obama will have a rough time making this Country WORSE for his last 2 years! He will only be a 1 term President, I guarantee it!!!!!!! Then we will get a Republican in their, reverse this RIDICULOUS HEALTH CARE BILL!

Russia, China, Cambodia, Mexico, Sweden, Ireland and Angola haven’t been invaded,either, so their DOD’s must be doing something right, too.

The French are idiots.….…They only think about the French.

Wow, a totally incomprehensible reply. You don’t often see those.

Do you have any idea of the trouble that Russia, China, Cambodia, Mexico, and Angola have had over the last thirty years? A definition of invaded is difficult when their borders are so porous and so often crossed. Sweden and Ireland have lots of trouble with Muslim immigrants, you should know, and the fact that they are both under the US umbrella might affect their invasion status.

Keep up the good work, and keep staying away from those irritating history books.

The UK is building an aircraft carrier now:http://​en​.wikipedia​.org/​w​i​k​i​/​H​M​S​_​Q​u​e​e​n​_​E​l​i​z​a​b​e​th_
Having gone for over 3 decades without, and really feeling it in the Falklands Island conflict, they’ve reversed an assessment that you now want to adopt. We don’t need to repeat their mistake to learn their lesson.

Since when is racism patriotism? Are you saying klan members…terrorists…are patriots? Not all veterans, ‘ex sailor’…are patriots. If you’re a racist you’re not a patriotic American. If you think Obama’s a traitor or socialist, you’re not a patriot.

Exactly! Religion has no place in government at any level, whether that religion is Christian, Islam, Buddism etc.
Government decisions should be made for the good of the citizens of that country. Not by what’s quoted in the bible or other religious text.

Im about sick of the cutting of My Corps…why on earth should they have to give anything up? Look at how many bombers the USAF has in its inventory and yet they still say they need more. They have more jets that the navy as well as the Corps..for years the Marines always took hand me downs and made them work…hell they still have WWII jeep willis in its inventory in Kuwait. The Marines need to break free and have its own budget…no more bottle feeding or allowance! Leave the Nav and Corps alone…it took us years to master the 7 seas…lets keep it that way!

Byron always does that daniel. Typical Democrat defense mechanism. It is best to ignore Byron when he starts mumbling about “winger tanks” like a crazy person.

I don’t agree with calling Obama a traitor but he has acted foolish and is shaping up to be a poor president. If anything you who voted for Obama owe the rest of us an apology.

Intent is not to question MY patriotism but to show how equipment development is quite esential to ensure a military show. We as Americans are easy to forgive and forget. Multi-carrier task forces are required. And yes we do repair equipment from Viet Nam and continue to use all assests available to keep our older equipment up-to-date. We need to continue to develope new equipment and provide carriers where needed as our non-allies don’t like a military presents on thier soil. Our technology is dropping like a ton of bricks. Productivity in America is grinding to a standstill. When government grows military shrinks. Yes 30 years in the military. Our personnel in the military are the greatest asset that America has. My point is to fault the Military for sake of spread the wealth will cause the volunteerism and pride of our personnel to fail.

It’s time America took a good look at how we financed the Arsenal of Democracy in WW II. We did it with production and money to match our output.

We have the potential to produce the requisites for peace–like the end of poverty and ignorance at home and abroad. If we make a list of them and produce them–the money can be wrapped around them to make a perfect fit. We have people without work. Yhat is madness writ large. What we really have UNMET NEEDS FOR PEACE AND THE POWER TO KEEP IT PERMANENTLY.

Yes i do sit on my couch! Knowing that i served my country for 30 years to watch it slip away from within. It makes me darn mad. I went through two wars fighting with the same equipment to provide the couch you sit on. Our country is fighting for its life, neighbors don’t even talk to each other anymore nor sit on the front steps of their homes, yet spend, spend, spend. Gates job is to provide a means of communication to the excutive branch of our military needs and requirements, not slam the services for the great job they do in giving away couches.

Why? Because he’s making America stronger than the rich frat boy?

I guess we’re down to listening to John Lennon’s “All we are saying is give peace a chance!” Let’s just give the money to the illegal immigrants when they need medical attention while you and I, REAL AMERICANS” sit in the waiting room for hours!!
I can’t wait until The Wizard takes Dorothy’s shoes puts them on, clicks his heels together and says, “There’s no place like home, there’s no place like home” and suddenly wakes up back in Chicago with the wife and kids down at his library in back working on their garden.
We in Massachusetts started with the election of Scott Brown to replace “BIG TED” this is what the rest of this POOR country needs to do. SHOW THEM THE WAY out the door!!! So in November go to your polling place grab the ballot and yell, “I’M MAD AS HELL AND I’M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!”

Bill Gates, like the others who support him, do not have military minds, they never served in the armed forces, they instead got deferments, like so many other Washington Bureacrats, If he is reducing the U.S. Navy’s Budge now, I guess he believes his radical Islamists became Christians. Remember folks, in Novemeber we have a chance to end this assination of our freedoms in this country, vote every incumbant moran out of office. Take a look at the person that tried to blow up Times Square, this is why Arizona implemented their own Immigration Reform!

Carriers are a valued Military asset, but just like everything else we build(that size)you can’t recycled the damn thing, the same thing goes for the other branches as well. We have become a wasteful nation, we have more outdated military equipment sitting in bone yards than we have on duty, we can never use it again because it’s OLD, thats a lot of money gone and it won’t be comming back. Talking about creating jobs, we’d have people working for the next forty years or more just tear them up and re-use the metal, and all of that can’t be re-used. Wasteful.

Sir,

Precisely how do we ‘get the Europeans, Chinese, etc to supply forces to do that?’. Diplomacy has reached the point where America is the country that everyone expects to do everything. The Europeans are great for talk, pounding the table and hurling insults at the USA, but the moment we talk of reducing the numbers of weapons in Europe, they complain about the loss of jobs/protection that we take away.

Diplomacy in Europe is what allowed Bosnia and Kosovo to become the festering sores that they were before American involvement shifted it from containment (and thus, tacit approval of genocide, as long as it was only in one country) to cessation of hostilities.

We Americans are naive. This Naivete is what makes us great. We seem to be the only country that is willing to believe that genocide does not have to happen, that we can get others to talk to those they wish to kill and reach a solution. Europeans? They will do nothing unless their individual countries are threatened. Removing the USA as a stabilizing factor through reducing our presence world wide will only breed more of the types of chaos we have seen internationally since the fall of the Soviet Empire.

Think about it.

Mr Gates is just bowing to his boss…who has other aspirations for our demise, whoever the invading force that imperils us will surely have their own sea-worthy naval force so why up-grade ours now that Obama’s selling down the proverbial river.…so sad!

Mr Gates is just bowing to his boss…who has other aspirations for our demise, whoever the invading force that imperils us will surely have their own sea-worthy naval force so why up-grade ours now that Obama’s selling down the proverbial river.…so sad!

Oh great, while we are at it, lets just disarm completely and grow flowers. LOOK, our Navy is this country’s first line of defense! Yes, I aggree that our Carriers are too big and easy targets and too costly. What we should do is look at the new designs that hold as many aircraft but take half the crew to run them. We should be building as many attack Subs as possible! Once again we have our heads in the sand when it comes to the REAL threat which is China. They are doing and will do the same thing to us that the Japs did over 60 years ago, oh well that’s just history, it will never repeat itself.

Oh great, while we are at it, lets just disarm completely and grow flowers. LOOK, our Navy is this country’s first line of defense! Yes, I aggree that our Carriers are too big and easy targets and too costly. What we should do is look at the new designs that hold as many aircraft but take half the crew to run them. We should be building as many attack Subs as possible! Once again we have our heads in the sand when it comes to the REAL threat which is China. They are doing and will do the same thing to us that the Japs did over 60 years ago, oh well that’s just history, it will never repeat itself.

I am sick and tired of these knuckleheads who want to blame our defense spending for all of our financial problems. Yes, I do aggree that we need to bring ALL of our troops home, and I would line them up along our southern border. BUT, the FACT is that over 2/3 rds of the entire federal budget goes to ENTITLEMENTS!!!!!!! Oh yeah, we are supposed to cut our defense because we can’t afford it, yet we have tons of money for FREE HEALTHCARE FOR ALL, FREE WELFARE, FREE BAILOUTS, FREE CRAP FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS, FREE ETC. No, we would not have to do away with Social Security either, and NO, Skinner,
I am NOT a racist, it doesn’t matter what color of skin Obama is (half white by the way), he is destroying our country. Anyone who understands what this country was founded on can understand that.

I am sick and tired of these knuckleheads who want to blame our defense spending for all of our financial problems. Yes, I do aggree that we need to bring ALL of our troops home, and I would line them up along our southern border. BUT, the FACT is that over 2/3 rds of the entire federal budget goes to ENTITLEMENTS!!!!!!! Oh yeah, we are supposed to cut our defense because we can’t afford it, yet we have tons of money for FREE HEALTHCARE FOR ALL, FREE WELFARE, FREE BAILOUTS, FREE CRAP FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS, FREE ETC. No, we would not have to do away with Social Security either, and NO, Skinner,
I am NOT a racist, it doesn’t matter what color of skin Obama is (half white by the way), he is destroying our country. Anyone who understands what this country was founded on can understand that.

Exactly! Religion has no place in government at any level, whether that religion is Christian, Islam, Buddism etc.
Government decisions should be made for the good of the citizens of that country. Not by what’s quoted in the bible or other religious text.

This is a good point, and works well when related to ANY countries armed forces.

Instead of looking at individual projects, and cutting costs here and there, one first needs to look at the ROLE you want your defence forces to play in the future. Do you want them to be a deterrent to war, a peacekeeping force (ie. East Timor), an occupational force (Iraq & Afghanistan), a clean-up crew (Haiti, the Oil spill the Coast Guard are responding to) or a police force (Anti-piracy, drug/ people smuggling, illegal fishing)

Once you determine that role, you equip the force with the best equipment FOR that role. For example, the Coast Guard are most often used in the Law Enforcement and Clean-up / Rescue roles. So equipping them with F-22’s would be pointless.

The Marine Corp hasn’t done a true ‘amphibious only’ landing in decades, and with the proliferation of helicopters and aircraft, one has to question the usefulness of a slow moving amphibious vehicle.

Additionally, is it possible to utilize existing technology that another branch / another military force uses already that has been proven, instead of pumping billions of dollars into projects, only to cancel them because the finished product doesn’t meet the requirements. (Why did any country move away from the old ‘you develop a prototype for us to test, THEN we’ll give you money for the project’ system anyway?)

Further, for cost cutting, can some of the overlap be removed from various branches / departments, so remove ‘doubling up’ on expenses. While there might not be MUCH of this in the defence forces, I can certainly see a ton of it in the US Law Enforcement area, with DEA, FBI, ATF, Homeland Security, State, Local and Metropolitan police.

In short: Save costs from things that aren’t needed, rather than just cutting away at the number of carriers you have. Otherwise in 10 years the problem will come up again, and you won’t have the carriers to cull for quick savings… and you WILL have an enemy on your doorstep looking in.

When it comes to Gates, ignorance of history is bliss. Why do we control the water? Because we have spent decades making it so. Between the Army, Navy, and the Marine Corps, they can do everything that is necessary and should have the funds necessary to do what we need especially now that we are fighting a new kind of war, terrorism. What about the Air Force? I didn’t hear anything about cutting out the one group that has the most minimal functions of anyone. If you are going to cut anyone, the Air Force is a good place to start. Except for NASA, everyone can do their job and do. I be glad when the whole White House gang is gone.

Sec. Gates goes along with deficit hawk nonsense about how much we can spend. He does not mention that we can spend enough to take the slack out of the labor and manufacturing markets. Naturally, we should only spend on what will work and what we really need. We know we need closer ties to friendly great nations. Peace is our profession. War will be avoided if we remain rational and as strong as possible. China and Russia are NOT our natural enemies: geopolitical they are our natural allies — along with the EU, India, Japan and Brazil. We have no real enemies except the ones we are presently at war with and those who want to attack us the moment we turn our back–like Iran and N. Korea.

“Our Navy wants to be able to fight in the Atlantic and the Pacific and the Indian and Arctic, etc. Is this a reasonable goal?”

It is not our Navy who wants this, is our economic system that requires it. We do business around the world, if we can’t efforce policy then forget about prosperity, for us and the rest of the world too. This shows a lack of understanding of geopolitics.

Out of 84 comments so far (other than the usual sneering, sarcastic references to a philosophy of peace such as “maybe we should just grow flowers or listen to John Lennon,” etc.), your two short are the only ones to step back, look at the big picture and recognize the awesome power of actively advocating, funding, and projecting peace initiatives throughout the world. Perhaps if we actually took the initiative in this regard we would no longer be referrred to so frequently, especially by our own citizens, as “the most hated country in the world.” Your comments regarding turning the focus on the requisites for peace make so much sense that nobody even bothered to attack you with the usual blend of paranoia, condescension, contempt and hysterical rantings about how our government is ruining our country. It’s like that point of view isn’t even in the realm of possibility in the mind of the average American.

Obviously, sarcasm is lost on some.…

Sir,

Precisely how do we ‘get the Europeans, Chinese, etc to supply forces to do that?’. Diplomacy has reached the point where America is the country that everyone expects to do everything. The Europeans are great for talk, pounding the table and hurling insults at the USA, but the moment we talk of reducing the numbers of weapons in Europe, they complain about the loss of jobs/protection that we take away.

Diplomacy in Europe is what allowed Bosnia and Kosovo to become the festering sores that they were before American involvement shifted it from containment (and thus, tacit approval of genocide, as long as it was only in one country) to cessation of hostilities.

We Americans are naive. This Naivete is what makes us great. We seem to be the only country that is willing to believe that genocide does not have to happen, that we can get others to talk to those they wish to kill and reach a solution. Europeans? They will do nothing unless their individual countries are threatened. Removing the USA as a stabilizing factor through reducing our presence world wide will only breed more of the types of chaos we have seen internationally since the fall of the Soviet Empire.

Think about it.

Oh, and the Chinese? Really sir, you are not suggesting the country that publicly stated not one month ago that they foresaw the need within the next ten years to challenge the USA militarily to actually work with us to improve stability across the globe? Not unless that improved stability comes at the price of Chinese control of the globe.

Is control of the world’s oceans of vital interest to the well being of this Great country? I think it is our life line and with current world threats, our Navy and Marine Corps are the forefront of our countries first strike capability as well as a significant deterrent. With two wars currently keeping our country engaged, not to mention pirates, tracking and boarding suspected vessels of interest, and a presence in the Gulf to keep certain countries in check with knowledge we can hit them hard at our whim I would disagree with a reduction. Our current wars we are engaged in, we chose to pursue. If history was ever to be repeated such as World War 2 where a two front war kept us heavily engaged were to occur again a weakened or reduced military would give our adversaries thoughts of striking in unison. Our country has real adversaries who lie in the dark, wishing and possibly waiting for us to become incapable of protecting ourselves from all sides to strike. It is not a notion I think we should be prepared to give our enemies that we could not take on all comers. I believe terrorism is on the rise because they feel they could not take us on militarily.

If our country would stop sending money to everything around the world i.e. we provide 17% of the IMF funds (As reported last night on a popular commentary), not to mention the majority to the money for the U.N. we might have more money to take care of our own country.

Amen William, I couldn’t have said it better.

Since when is racism patriotism? Those who refer to Obama in racist terms, or question his patriotism are bringing an element to the discussion that is very ugly.

A lot of this and what will be the downfall is that they are only concentrating on what is currently going on, mostly land locked battle. But they have forgotten how we initialy got there and who was on the ground first and flying most of the sorties till the army and airforce arrived with all of thier gear (and who transported most of thier gear to start with). Maybe when it is time to pull out and they realize we dont have the ships to do it in thier time frame they will start to remember you cant even fight a land war overseas without a NAVY. Granted we need to buy smarter to maintain it, Force AMERICAN companies to provide better prices by bypassing them until they realize they need to adjust, build ships with a primary and secondary mission but not a multi functional do all hull design, there is no such thing.

Good Morning Folks,

Under Colin’s imposed ROE for me I can’t speak my mind regarding these ideologs postings, other then to say it must be stupid season.

From the framing of the responses to President Obama, racism is the only interpretation of what I’m reading. The President of the United States when being directly referred to, should always be addressed by his title, anything else is a clear sign of disrespect for both for the office and the man. But good manners and respect are not winger qualities.

Don’t any of you winger remember who appointed Sec. Gates?

Anyhow when the right wing have no facts to support there positions, this is what they cheerfully go to. Including folks who present themselves as “Veterans” and use that as a platform for vile outrages. But one has to earn a living.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

Thanks Jon. I truly regret that Sec Defense is so stymied by deficit-hawk thoughts he does not see his responsibility to make us again the arsenal for peace and democracy in a world exposed to financial forces not unlike those that preceded WWII.

On the left and right our American record of know-how and know-why seems to have been forgotten. FDR asked for a Second Bill of Rights. We can pay for those rights with hard work. And we can protect those rights with a Navy, Air Force and Army capable of making appropriate alliances with friendly nations — including all the giant nations currently cooperating for world peace and capable, as well, of preventing WW III if necessary by the kind of preventative action that at the time of WW II might have saved 50 million lives.

We, the republicans must be very observatory to keep track of those funds, in my eyes, Gates move is a bit assertive only if he redirect this funds into R&D, vets support, and local industry re-impulse. If it goes to Democrats political agenda, it is going to be catastrophic for US future and the only industry that we still lead…

Welcome back to the Carter years, people. We are witnessing the gutting of the US Military to pay for liberal socialism. Just remember how long it took to recover up to the Reagan era that made us a strong respected nation. “Those who don’t listen to the mistakes of history are bound to repeat it”. Times Square should be a wakeup call.

This is the same genius who was instrumental in the CIA’s failed assessment of the break-up of the Soviet Union. I don’t put much stock in his analysis of future threats. What scares me is the degree to which the Obama Administration will let him play out his little game of Risk. We may never be able to undo the damage this four-star clown and his enablers inflict on our military. Don’t think for a minute that the Chinese aren’t watching these developments with great interest.

Not a racist.…You didn’t get the name TJRedNeck for nothing! And of course, unless you mentioned you weren’t a racist, who would have called you one. Kinda self incriminating.

YA KNOW THIS IS GETTING OLD AS HELL — This is AMERICA and freedom of speech is still a right, every time someone says something negative about the current admin there are those out there that whine racism. It is BS and needs to stop, The repubs messed up a lot in the past is a true statement but they are not in the hot seat right now dems are and need to suck it up, there is a lot they could have done to make things better rather than worse so people are allowed to express thier right of free speech, Isnt that part of what most of us served our country to protect. I have never once read anything about race in any of these post’s regardless of how critical they were of him, A lot of African Americans, Asian Americans, and Latin Americans dont like him or the dems either are they also racist or do you truly believe only white folks dont like the current admin. Get real — we show respect to those who earn it from us and not to titles, only ring knockers believe in title respect which is a major downfall of the military to start with. In my lifetime travels it always seems those who cry racism are usualy the true racist. Knock this crapp off and stick to the issues.

What about the last 8 years of “Bushitler” and other “colorful” titles for the president? That ways okay because he was a Republican? Yet anybody who speaks ill of Obama or even disagrees with his policies is a racist. You don’t see a bit of a double standard there Byron?

Def. Sec Gates may have been appointed by Bush but that doesn’t improve his case. If anything since Obama he has adopted even more worrisome views. He is wrong when he cut F-22A production and he is wrong now as bashes the Navy and USMC. His procurement plans are as disastrous as McNamara’s.

I would love to be paid to speak my mind here. Lockheed, Northrop, Boeing, BAE, General Dynamics, any offers? No? Well I guess I am not part of this conspiracy by the defense industry and “winger tanks” you always speak of.

Bush is the only president in US that did what needed to be done despite knowing it was going to cost his political career. Don’t you dear to blasfemate about him. He is about the few people knowing and loving this country for what it stands for and because of that he decided to take the burdin of his role at that time.

If you fail to see this move, together with clearing out the mess of Clinton divesting plan of 8 trillion dollars which BTW were stolen out of the pockets of working Americans and people throughout the world via NYSE and NASDAQ due to misleading on-purpose assessed statements of SCAM ENSURING COMMISSION (SEC) driven by democrats also. And, having to face the largest economic depression BTW also provoked by the democrats bankers bailing out of US trusts and having to fight terrorism also made possible by Intelligence leakages of Clinton’s administration (or you are not going to admit that the visas to all terrorists were given during Clinton’s period„ I would not even hire you to speak at a pet-shop…

It’s not “your Corps”. Remember the first words “United States” — It’s “Our Corp”. It’s being administered as the founders instructed our military to be. It needs to be reactive to today’s enemies ! We will not be going to Guadalcanal anytime soon. We do not need to deploy troop carriers laden with our sons as they would be shot out of the water with 21st century weapons. If it is not in the best interest of the United States, it shouldn’t be in the budget.

The world is a big place; do you not believe the islamic militants are now in all the countries on this planet. If we aren’t there they soon will be; they move around and much of it is the pressure we bare on them. They work in the most inhospitable area’s just because we’re not there. The consept of having 11 Carrier groups is conservative. We need 20; the military is the greatest reason our youth are so widely exposed to the worlk, when they leave to the civilian sector are sought out by employers and trusted due to their history of trial by fire. Those that stay or get out are more muture, with a greater work ethic, and the one reasponsible for building character; you see it in everyone of their eyes. The Aircraft Carrier is realestate and sovern country; we’re taking our way of life to the world. One world order is closer than we might think.

Back on subject — there are ways to reduce our current spending without reducing the size of our force or projection the way the brass wants to. STOP the LCS program and use the funds for other programs — we already have a means to do it with current gear even better than this so called miricle platform. The San Antonio class LPD’s would make a perfect mother ship for littoral ops, fill the hanger and flight decks with Apaches and Blackhawks, the well deck with a SWCC unit (special warfare combat craft) and a complement composed of SPECWAR and ruglar troops, They are already as gunned up as most destroyers — can stay on staion long periods — have a hospital — can berth 430 troops along with the crew so why try to build something we dont obviously need. We can also acquire a number of modern disel electric subs for the price of one VA class, modern D Boats are capable of staying submerged for long periods and can even rechrge thier batteries without broaching the surface, a number of them were built for Germany in Texas so why not for us as well. There are a number of things we can definately do smarter, just wish the brass would catch on as well.

I like your idea about recycling. We seem to have always been wasteful, I agree. At some point we have to stop. At some point we are going to be out of cash, metal, oil, water — you name it. I was appalled when I read about the airport in Johnstown, PA. Former Congressman Murtha had an entire airport built there just for himself. He was the Democrat deal maker. Now he’s deader than the airfield. We have a lot of that — No, I didn’t forget Tom Delay. Everyone in Sugarland Texas should have a Cadillac for the amount of money he siphoned off. It’s time to put American tax dollars to work for the betterment of all Americans not just someones constituents based on seniority in congress. I would like to quote wtpworrier “…that’s a lot of money that won’t be coming back.”

Bill Gates runs Microsoft. you missed right at the “git go” here. You also missed on the “Times Sq.” guy. He was a legal immigrant. We are all immigrants to this continent or descendants of immigrants. What is going on in Arizona is nuts. It’s called ‘xenophobia”. It’s an irrational fear of someone foreign. Our country is in a recession. It is not do to any Mexican or group of Mexicans in or outside this country. If you want to “vote someone out”, look to Wall Street.

thanks, pete

no one seems to care about the consequences of not buying american-made products, anymore.

we’re heading towards (or already have) a service-dominated economy that doesn’t remember how to make things for themselves…

it’s sad, really.

Shades of Jimmy Carter Days. In deference to Mr Skinners well thought out and throughly accurate assessment (NOT) of lets blame The Bush Administration I must protest. We are simply seeing the tip of the administrations attempt to CHANGE the American way of life. I for one am so tired of people wanting to point at the previous administrations it makes me angry. While we have a burgeoning national debt, the last thing we need is another whack at our economy. While there are many that work in the defense industry that will be impacted immediately by this approach, the real impact will be felt years down the road when we are unable to react to a threat to our shores. Oh yes the China threat is real

Did anybody really think BO would support military spending ?

He couldn’t succeed when he micro-managed the recovery of one soldier held captive by ’ raggy pirates’ . Success was only achieved when a real military brain took action.

I suggest cutting his security detail.……just for 1 day, un-announced. He MAY begin to realize that he needs to leave some things to people that know what they are doing..

I am relieved to hear Secretary Gates speaking realistically about the budget. Sure, I wish America was still at its 1940’s-50’s peak of power when we could afford more munitions than the rest of the world put together. Those days are gone and we endanger our position in the world if we try and maintain a power structure that is beyond our capabilities. Our choices are to downsize or collapse.
Gates is talking about downsizing in a way that ties capability to threats. Carriers were the ultimate in maritime power projection in 1940. That was 70 years ago. Do you know any post-steam weapons system that stayed on top for seven decades?? Gates notes that essentially, in today’s climate of distance sensors and smart weapons, a 90,000-ton carrier is no longer a galloping ghost shielded by wizardry. Now it’s vulnerable to a high-tech enemy; remember the ill-fated “General Belgrano.“
Let’s learn something from the hard falls of so many empires before us — let’s downsize and remain a formidable world power.

I am relieved to hear Secretary Gates speaking realistically about the budget. Sure, I wish America was still at its 1940’s-50’s peak of power when we could afford more munitions than the rest of the world put together. Those days are gone and we endanger our position in the world if we try and maintain a power structure that is beyond our capabilities. Our choices are to downsize or collapse.
Gates is talking about downsizing in a way that ties capability to threats. Carriers were the ultimate in maritime power projection in 1940. That was 70 years ago. Do you know any post-steam weapons system that stayed on top for seven decades?? Gates notes that essentially, in today’s climate of distance sensors and smart weapons, a 90,000-ton carrier is no longer a galloping ghost shielded by wizardry. Now it’s vulnerable to a high-tech enemy; remember the ill-fated “General Belgrano.“
Let’s learn something from the hard falls of so many empires before us — let’s downsize and remain a formidable world power.

Did anybody really think BO would support military spending ?

He couldn’t succeed when he micro-managed the recovery of one soldier held captive by ’ raggy pirates’ . Success was only achieved when a real military brain took action.

I suggest cutting his security detail.……just for 1 day, un-announced. He MAY begin to realize that he needs to leave some things to people that know what they are doing..

“Whoinafok hired this dipshi’ite?”

The unfortuneate fact is, things ain’t what they used to be, and this ain’t the summer of love-when the US had a quasi-monopoly on teh technology and could afford to maintain world miitary dominance. We’ll have to settle for local superiority and hope we don’t get called down on two fronts, simultaneously, because everybdoy has an industrial mliltary complex capable of making good military hardware, these days, and it is more expensive than it’s ever been. The key to security lies in international diplomacy, much like von Bismark’s system of alliances and Britain’s skillful diplomacy that kept eh continent balanced enough to make British intervention the deciding factor. Unfortuneately, we’ve never been good at that sort of thing, but we’l have to learn, and there are plenty of fellowtravellers in teh world people like Hillary Clinton ever get it figured out that taking a firm stand is a lot cheaper than trying to buy friends, who will turn on us, and molly coddling corrupt regimes doesn’t pay.

During my career in the Corps I served almost half the time with the navy. As much as I enjoyed the banter between Squids and Jarheads, I valued the fact that as Marines we were a vital component of the Naval Service. If you separate the Marine Corps from the Navy you will pronounce it’s death sentence. It will be subsumed into the Army in a heartbeat. There won’t be a “head” anymore, just “latrines”.

Many of you are correct. I will not belabor most of it, just one thing. We need to project power and lower costs. There is a way to do that. All male ship crews. It would have a significant enough impact if crew quarters were more “primitive” and other adjustments made that cannot be undertaken with a female contingent on board. This is the low hanging fruit. Unfortunately, the people voted in the touchy feelies who will let the low hanging fruit rot before they pick it.

George W. Bush

¿Sweden, Ireland not invaded yet? yes, Eastern Europe haven’t been invaded by Russia (URSS) because USA was a good peacekeeping.

“major weapons systems that never deploy” …because nobody wants to risk against them. That was the reason F-15 were 15 years waiting to fligth in combat. Do you think F-15 was a waste of money?

I think carrier may be defended with new techonlogies, lasers included. But if it is not possible, more impossible will be to defend less capable vessels and combat naval groups without carrier.

Islam is not a religion, is a despotic political system that must be impossed by the sword… “Allah willing”

Russia… China and Iran are coming.

much… or more!

Congressmen actually have a Cold War mentallity.
So, why not to outsource the entire Congress to China? It could be much more cheap.

Wow — a second incomprehensible reply! Must be a record. But then kkk87 appears to not be a native English speaker. Ever heard of Georgia (it is also a country south of Russia in case you didn’t know). I would not exactly consider it part of Eastern Europe but it has been recently invaded. GB2 possibly meant to include it is his (turgid and muddled) reply and it is a good counter example to the point that kkk87 appears to be attempting to verbalize.

To John in Jacksonville…the General Belgrano wasn’t the only thing hit in the Falklands war. The Brits sank the Argentine ex-American cruiser General Belgrano, but the brave little Argentia air force sank a number of British wars ships. In fact, bombs actually hit every ship in their fleet. They would have been wiped out if it wasn’t for Argentina’s lack of maintenance in bomb fuzing! So technology is only as good as those who service the weapons.

Touche JR! Just what I’m talkin’ about!

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