Tougher Budget, So Batten Hatches

Tougher Budget, So Batten Hatches

UPDATED: Gates To Ask Congress To Temper Pay, Benefit Increases

Tomorrow’s speech by Defense Secretary Robert Gates at the Eisenhower Library will mark another milestone in his continuing effort to remake the U.S. military, this time with a renewed emphasis on how tight money is and how Congress must stop ruining the Pentagon’s best laid plans by inserting unwanted funding. One of the biggest burdens Congress places on the Pentagon budget is the pay raise they insist on giving troops every year, along with benefits increases. He’ll also press the four services and the rest of the Pentagon to tighten up their own management.

When Gates told the Navy that major changes are coming in a Monday speech before the Navy League, he signaled that tomorrow’s speech would turn the fires up under Congress.


“In this year’s budget submission, the Department has asked to end funding for an extra engine for the Joint Strike Fighter as well as to cease production of the C-17 cargo aircraft – two decisions supported by the services and reams of analysis. As we speak, a fight is on to keep the Congress from putting the extra engine and more C-17s back in the budget –- at an unnecessary potential cost to the taxpayers of billions of dollars over the next few years. The issues surrounding political will and the Defense budget are ones I will discuss in more detail at the Eisenhower Library on Saturday,” he said.

Congress, of course, will act in its own interests, reminding the Pentagon that it possesses the constitutional right to decide how much money is spent and on what it is spent. But Gates has proven masterful at undercutting the Hill and taking away the traditional trade space in the budget wars.

He will need that mastery as there are persistent rumors that Gates is compiling a list of big-hit programs to kill and thus present a package of significant, long-term cost savings as he did last April 6. Several senior Pentagon officials said much of this renewed pressure is being driven by the early budget discussions for the 2012–2013 budgets that are being built as we write. One of them said the services must really clamp down on internal cost growth.

A clear signal of just what may come down the lane was offered Thursday by Stephen Dagget, a Congressional Research Service defense budget expert. Daggett briefed the White House’s National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform.

Most importantly, Daggett notes that procurement is the traditional “bill payer” in past economic declines. His first briefing slide lays out some of the options:

Growing costs require difficult choices just to stay in place;
No real growth or declining budgets would require trade-offs:
Limit personnel & O&M costs? DOD has tried.
Trim weapons procurement? Usual answer.
Reconsider size of the force? May be on the table, but requires adjustments in strategy.

Air Force Secretary Michael Donley, often seen as the service leader closest to Gates, sounded the budget call in remarks on Capitol Hill yesterday. In a zero sum budget environment, he said “the biggest threat to the defense budget is internal cost growth.”

Meanwhile, Gates’ clarion call to the Navy to scale back its carrier and to rethink its submarine force at the Navy League’s annual conference was either ignored — in traditional Navy fashion — or deliberately rebuffed the day after.

“The Navy remains firmly committed to maintaining a force of 11 carriers for the next three decades,” Sean Stackley, head of Navy acquisition, told the Senate Armed Services seapower subcommittee.

The country needs carriers, he said, and the number is based on “world-wide presence requirements, surge availability, training and exercise,” etcetera.

As the budget net draws tighter, expect the services to try and rip and tear the net, or to try and sneak money through. Gates knows this is coming and he told the Navy League, and the Navy, that they need to keep their eye on the nation’s interests. “Even so, it is important to remember that, as the wars recede, money will be required to reset the Army and Marine Corps, which have borne the brunt of the conflicts. And there will continue to be long-term -– and inviolable –- costs associated with taking care of our troops and their families,” he said, adding that there will be no increase in the shipbuilding budget.

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All fiscal arguements could and should be handled the way I handle arguements with my teenagers– when does a WANT become a NEED, and vice-a-versa. The Air Farce WANTS the F-35, but there is NO NEED for the F-35. The Navy WANTS an LCC, but doesn’t NEED an LCC. Etc, etc, etc.

When is someone going to step-up and “be the parent” and tell these kids who spend money like a spoiled child and say “NO– YOU CAN’T HAVE THAT TOY!” to these guys who want to spend money like there is no tomorrow?

But, nobody want’s to be the parent, so us kids will continue to throw away BILLIONS of $$$ on crap that the service chiefs WANT that doesn’t work as advertised (F-22 and F-35) or things we don’t need (LCC), instead of things that we do NEED.

At the end of the day, it all comes down to this– all the F-22s, F-35s, LCCs, etc. still can’t detect or deter a bunch of motivated assholes with box cutters and convert an 767 into a missile.…

Interesting symbolism–Gates will speak at the Eisenhower Library tomorrow.… that warning about the military-industrial-congressional-complex thing in Ike’s last speech?

Not to excuse the acquisition insanity of the last two decades, but this stands out to me: “Limit personnel & O&M costs? DOD has tried.” And this “and there will continue to be long-term -– and inviolable –- costs associated with taking care of our troops and their families.” And how has DoD tried to reduce O&M costs? Here’s how: right now you see the Navy taking ships with 150+ in their crew and replacing them with ships with 40 person crews. Why? Because we’ve managed to make the people so expensive. See here for more on that: http://​www​.msnbc​.msn​.com/​i​d​/​3​7​0​2​8​5​0​1​/​n​s​/​p​o​l​i​t​i​cs-…

We have created the best paid and cared for force in the world but cannot afford the equipment and weapons for them to use. The O&M expenses are eating our lunch and the M part of maintaining aging weapons isn’t helping either. The whole freaking military needs a reset.

Yes, the politicians have played a part. Is it really cost effective for weapon system to have a part built in each congressional district? Did it make sense for the last administration to “skip a generation of weapons” when their predecessors in the White House pretty much did that by taking a “procurement holiday”? Need the military need 3% pay raises for the last 12 years? Congress and tankers, need we say more? And lastly if the budget is broken, why is the administration looking at defense when the bulk of federal (and state) spending is in entitlements? Political will…

Here we have a Sec.Def which views the very military machine that serves under him, as the enemy to be punished under a discipline that only he feels qualified to give.

While I have little doubt that about the need to eliminate waste in the US armed forces as they exist now, how ironic that Mr. Gates spends his days only thinking of what needs to be cut, and not of what needs to be created.

Lets hope that his decisions that will be revealed tomorrow, are really about creating a better US military, and not just about building a bigger personal legacy.

Except we do need the F-35 and F-22 and they do work as advertised (well, at least the F-22). And we do need some sort of frigate sized ship like the LCS.

Why is it okay for the government to waste trillions on all of this other nonsense, yet not properly pay to replace old military equipment?

Baiollouts are NOT needed, public incentives are NOT needed, public welfare are NOT needed, .

We do need freedom and democracy. Navy, Army and Air Force are the scorts of them and they need firts class military assets.

MY suggeston, time for GATES to go. Hed is no good serving under 2 Presidents different in
nature.

Robert Gates should honor his speech and TERMINATE useless and defunct F-35 program and LCS, just for starters. Then I would believe he is not on Lockheed Martin payroll. Otherwise, his contribution to DoD so far has been C minus, he has shown sufficient lack of insight and judgement, plus higher degree of hubris exceeding permissimble level and therefore he should go.

I guess “Only Nixon could go to China” in this case. I don’t think a Democratic Administration could get away with defense cuts (without cries of un-Americanism and blatant disregard fro American safety)- especially when they are also increasing social spending. I’m sure when a Republican is finally in the White House we will see the exact opposite in fiscal hypocrisy.

I have resigned myself to the fact that no true fiscal discipline (in both defense and social spending) will come, until the country faces a Japanese like credit rating crisis.

Lot’s of ands there-soory:/

Elections have consequences. Obama is set to reduce the US into a regional power. We took a procurement holiday in the ‘90s thanks to Clinton, were tasked to the hilt under George Bush’s and now Obama wants to make the US into a Euro-socalist utopia which will requre discarding our superpower capability. Gates’ drive to “rebalance” US military toward irregular warfare is a cover story for a military-political retreat. Gates is evidently on a path to gut the Navy & Air Force which will reduce the US to a regional power without the political will to perform the most basic tasks like securing the US borders from islamic terrorists, narco-thugs and a massive alien migration. Welcome to the change 52% of you voted for.

THE MILITARY DOES NOT WANT THE F-136 ENGINE OR THE ADDITIONAL C-17’S, BUT CONGRESS IS FORCING THEM DOWN THE DOD’S THROAT! THEY COULD CARE LESS ABOUT THE MILITARY, AND THEY REALLY DO CARE MORE ABOUT THE MONEY THEY GET FROM “GE” AND “BOEING”! THEY ALL HAVE TO GO (CONGRESS)!

THE MILITARY DOES NOT WANT THE F-136 ENGINE OR THE ADDITIONAL C-17’S, BUT CONGRESS IS FORCING THEM DOWN THE DOD’S THROAT! THEY COULD CARE LESS ABOUT THE MILITARY, AND THEY REALLY DO CARE MORE ABOUT THE MONEY THEY GET FROM “GE” AND “BOEING”! THEY ALL HAVE TO GO (CONGRESS)!

I guess Gates, Obama, Reid, Pelosi and the other DemocRATS in congress have forgotten in the constitution that the Congress will PROVIDE for the COMMAND DEFENSE.

Seems like the Obama administration and congress thinks they are to PROVIDE for the GENRAL WELFARE and PROMOTO COMMAND DEFENSE

I guess it’s too bad defense doesn’t buy as many voters as entitlement programs. This administration is all about buying votes. Of course they’re all like that but this one has taken it to the extreme and consequences be damned.

Firefox: Cancel the F-35 and do what? Buy more dinosaurs that wouldn’t last ten seconds against anything other than cavemen? Throw away the tens of billions in R&D already spent on the F-35 and pony up $40-$50 billion MORE to R&D a replacement? Fill us in on your brilliant plan.

The previous Administration showed the same political and economic profligacy with its refusal to raise taxes for the wars and increased homeland spending, and the drug benefit, and increased homeland security. The priorities are different in regards to debt spending, yet they both share a blatant disregard for long term fiscal consequences.

Firefox, I am no great fan of the F35 but if we must develop & field a replacement for the F15/F16 as these a/c are obsolete and are simply worn out. I guess you could cut the fighter force, mothball all but 50 of our bombers, cnx any long range bomber cap and live with a few F22s and obsolete F/A18s and just go out of the airpower business…of course, this strategy would mean that we would loss all future conventional fights…but let me guess, state on state wars are over??? Got it.

Lot’s of ands there-soory:/

Don’t forget SSBNX must now be cut since it is too big of an expense. Ignore silly little things such as it being the only survivable platform of our nuclear deterrent triad. Also despite SSBN’s being the primary justification for the just signed START treaty, we have better social uses for this money.

I think Gates should take retirement and the thanks of a nation.… but leave my retirement benefits suchas the are .… alone!

Barry guts the military — especially aerospace — to relizaze the dream of frank marshal Davis who raised him and is an admitted Marxist and for his ‘spiritual’ mentor of 20 years USofkkkA j wright to cut america down to one of their beloved third world savage countries.

Anyone who believes Barry will protect what he hates and believes is the problem of the world needs to wake up.

November thankfully is coming.

My problem is I’m seriously afraid that we can’t make it another 2 1/2 yrs under this type of leadership — or lack of leadership.

Good Evening Folks,

It seem this post is kinda dead. Sec. of Defense Gates gave his speech today and it, the best to be said about it, well it was a dud. Few words that said nothing.

He proposed a couple of personal ideas like like getting rid of some of the dead wood in the officer corps and NCO. He has tried this before as had Sec. Rumsfeld with no success.

It would appear that Sec. Gates is learning a truth about the military, it becomes a parking place for many people who could be best done with out. Most EM’s know that NCO means “No Chance on the Outside”, or “No Civilian Occupation”. Short of firing them, a violation of enlistment contract this dead wood will stay in place.

Then there is the flag officers. I’ve been around the block about a year ago on this issue when I mention that the military had over a thousand flag officers and the wingers came out in force claiming that there was less the 500 and they needed more. The Generals and Admirals also have a very strong lobby. Well take it up with Sec. Gates who claim that there is over 1.300 of these folks and in a year of evaluations the DoD could only find 37 commands that could be eliminated, give me a break.

The problem would appear to be that after nearly 10 years and two wars, no General had yet been killed, only one has even been said to have been shot at, a Marine BG in Afghanistan, the bullet didn’t even come close, but he dived behind a vehicle like an FNG. His aids didn’t say if he needed to change his trousers or he kept it in.

The Generals and Admirals are content to do their fly overs at 10K feet and fight the war from some cushy HQ in a fortified area or better yet CONUS or Europe. Its time for Sec. Gates to order some Generals into combat, ride in MRAP’s, do a little fightin’, go out with the Infantry and the Scouts.

It’s good for enlisted moral to see the generals up front, leading and once in awhile gettin’ them selves killed. This would at least get rid of some of ‘em. Just don’t replace the ones that get killed. My guess is more would put in their retirement papers then risk Afghanistan personally. Eather way they would be gone.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

Skinner,

You just lost what little credibility you had left with those unfounded remarks. You should apologize to the folks in the armed forces who actually signed up to fight for this country regardless of the required sacrifices. There is dead wood in all organizations, and the active duty military has probably one of the best mechanisms to filter these folks out causing them to move up or out. Keep in mind anyone that remains after 20 years is working for half pay, since almost all could easily collect a pension while getting some cush high level GS/SES/Contractor job on the outside.

Mr.Gates want everyone shut up and give him the green light to do what ever he wants because he’s the military Boss, he even has obama scared sh!*less. He is used to the thug like ways he learned while at the CIA, How many times has he said that if you put this or that in the defense budget he would get the pres to veto it . Who is running this Mr,Gates you or the President It is time for Gates to step down , we wants are whole military geared toward low intensity wars and insergents with IEDs. And the fact that he says we are making a militart that presents an unfair advantage againts our enemies is the craziest thing I have ever heard. Our so called cold war hardware has served us very well during the last few conflicts, can you imagine if Gates gets his way where we gear up our military towards low intenseity conflicts , when this emboldens a larger adversary to try to impose its will on us , all the body bags with Americans in them will be on you Mr. Gates. We should be building the best military we can build one that can take on anyone which is flexable enough to respond to lower potentially dangerous adversary.

Mr.Gates want everyone shut up and give him the green light to do what ever he wants because he’s the military Boss, he even has obama scared sh!*less. He is used to the thug like ways he learned while at the CIA, How many times has he said that if you put this or that in the defense budget he would get the pres to veto it . Who is running this Mr,Gates you or the President It is time for Gates to step down , we wants are whole military geared toward low intensity wars and insergents with IEDs. And the fact that he says we are making a militart that presents an unfair advantage againts our enemies is the craziest thing I have ever heard. Our so called cold war hardware has served us very well during the last few conflicts, can you imagine if Gates gets his way where we gear up our military towards low intenseity conflicts , when this emboldens a larger adversary to try to impose its will on us , all the body bags with Americans in them will be on you Mr. Gates. We should be building the best military we can build one that can take on anyone which is flexable enough to respond to lower potentially dangerous adversary.

what is it that you actually do for a living? seems all you do is lurk here, if you really were in the “know” wouldn’t you be at work?

No one ever talks about buying foreign weapons that meet our needs and producing them under license. Or better steal a good system and copy/improve it. Rugged AK-47 rifles type rifles come to mind. Instead we go on a R&D program to come up with something better than the jamming M-4 carbines.

We are at war with Islam, not only Taliban and not only in Afgnistan or Irak: pakistan, solamilia and afterwards Sudan, Nigeria and more.
Also we are in a Cold War II with China, North Corea, Syria, Iran. They are waiting a US disarment. They are very happy with the Obama&Gates disarment of US.
Gates said he is “secretary of war, because we are at war”, so must be coherent and drastically cut averall espending but INCREASE it for war.

is a must to cut averall gubernamental spending and increase it for war.

Great observations supergenius: “the leadership, the NCO corps are all below par.” Why don’t you just thank them for the freedom you enjoy to pontificate about what you know little about. I’ve seen a fair few generals out on the COPs and FOBs with the troops. Haven’t seen you there.

Skinner, So what’s your point?? Flag officers are cowards? They should lead squad patrols? The US military should divest itself of flag officers? The military should not have leadership? What nonsense.

Mr Gates has to relize that people do not start wars, governments do for national instrest but they do not tell the American People what is there thinking about National Instrest is if that is transparent . I guess they must think we are idiots. they say thet democrats are liberal and te spent to much But as I look at it money is spent for American People and everybody wants to stop spenting, if you don’t pay , your bills as GOP did then where was our tax dollars spent i guess on our so call national intrest.

Good Morning Folks,

To Insider. Answer. Over all yes. Since they don’t have for the most part any combat experience as Jr. Officers, I would say it’s a place to start. Most could go and be replaced by middle grade officers, ie Eisenhower and Patton in WW II, who have been there and done that in combat, the military is seriously lacking in leadership now, Gen. Petareus is out power grabbing for himself, Gen. McCrystal hasn’t a clue of how to use the Marines or Army regular forces and is showing that in his area of expertise Spec. Ops. his is also clueless about how to use those assets. Both these Generals are the product of a Cold War promotion system that had those in command selecting who would follow them. Re. Gen. Petareus and his having the final say of BG’s in 2009.

To Guest. I’ve been in the military and have seen the career E-6’s and E-7’s and O-4’s and O-5’s who are just putting in their time. By the Army’s own admission only 60% of there soldiers are deployed to the war zones. A great deal of the other 40% are in cushy state side jobs,such as PX NCO/Officer, Base/Depot supply distribution supervision, base PR NCO/Officer, Base Environmental Services NCO/Officer, Base MWR NCO/Officer, HQ commands safety NCO/Officer, etc. All the mentioned more or less have been turned over to DoD civilian personal and there is little or no reason for a uniformed billet, it’s just a parking place just while waiting for nineteen and six.

Sec. Gates has the extremely modest proposal of moving from 2–3% from tail to tooth. But if I were a betting man I wouldn’t give this much of a chance of success.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

Skinner, Ike had zero combat time! He ran a training camp at Gettysburg during WWI. Patton was in his 60s during WWII. Nearly all the WWII Army senior leaders were picked by GC Marshall. So, replace all the flag officers with Majors & LTCs because they have Iraq & Afghan combat time?? light infantry & COIN fighting??…what if the next war is a high intensity war and the US commanders are all SOF, light infantry and airlift officers?? Suppose you agree with the ”high combat time” SecDef: the US will not prepare to fight at the high end of the ROMO??

AMEN BROTHER!

Yeah,… the F-35 is like such a solution…

Good Evening Insider,

I’m not a huge fan of General Marshall, but in the ETO he got rid of a lot of dead wood General officers. You are quite correct, Eisenhower was a Lt. Colonel at Ft. Lewis and his career was that of a staff officer, but by the end of North Africa there was no doubt that he was the right man. General Patton for all his bull sh** and self promotion won battles If they couldn’t perform General Marshall would have canned them.

How many Generals have been fired during these wars for non performance? The highest ranking officer fired for being to timid was a Colonel fired by Marine General Mattis.

We need to win these wars first before we start dreaming about the next war. Right now there is no country or combination of that are even a near-peer to the US. That projection goes out to 2040.

We are loaded down with a bunch of inbreeded Country Club flag officers that have had 8 years to win in Afghanistan and Iraq and have not been able to do so. Meanwhile some very good field grade officers are seeing that advancement above O-5 is still the same old ass kissing ass routine and are leaving the military.

Meanwhile neo-conservative chicken hawk wingers, being cheered on by the defense industry who don’t find the current wars to there satisfaction are having erotic feelings about some “high intensity war” that is just not going to happen.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

Byron Skinner the reason we aren’t firing generals left and right is because they are well trained and moved up through the ranks themselves. We aren’t talking about some Civil War era generals given the command of a division, corp, or army due to political connections. They aren’t incompetent men who blindly throw regiments at entrenched enemies.

What you fail to understand is the type of war the generals you speak ill of are trained to fight. They studied tactics and methods of flanking the enemy, cutting off his logistics, striking his weak points, and destroying his command structure. To put it simply they were trained to fight a “conventional” opponent. A real army like the Soviet Union. And considering what was accomplished in both 1991 and 2003, our generals can do this damn well. Yet it is a different type of war we are fighting, there are no lines of battle and armored formations. They are commanding smaller units expect to control wide areas. They are trained to fight and crush an enemy. Not build up the infrastructure of tribal communities and establish working independent governments. Do you know how to do this Byron? Countless defense analysts, historians, and commanders have looked for ways to make this mission of “nation-building” in Iraq and Afghanistan at least quick and painless. Nobody has yet found a way.

There have always been poor officers, and there will always be some. But your insults and criticisms only make you sound jealous for being passed up for a promotion at some point or another. And while training to fight long-term COIN warfare clearly must be a greater focus, we still need to be able to defeat a conventional opponent.

In Iraq it has taken 7 years and things have stabilized somewhat, but as always the question is if the Iraqi government can keep together once we leave. Yet Iraq, even with divisions between the Kurds, Sunni, Shiites and others, the country is much more unified and modern than Afghanistan. What do you consider “winning” Byron? Because we could have easily dismantled Saddam’s government and left the Iraqis to kill themselves. In Afghanistan we could easily have left after decimating the Taliban and Al Qaeda initially, but those radicals just will pop up again. Define a clear objective before you speak ill of your superior officers.

I presume you consider me one of those “neo-conservative wingers” because I am not some moonbat liberal. And yes, I do support getting new equipment. We clearly need to have new small arms, IED jammers, body armor, MRAP type vehicles, and other gear that makes the type of war we are fighting today less costly for our troops. Yet at the same time we need new F-22s, F-35s, main battle tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, carriers, destroyers and other things built primarily to fight a different sort of war. Your not a prophet Byron, and to say we are never going to see another high intensity war is just laughable.

Skinner,

Although, as previously stated, all orgs have some % of deadwood I have seen a much larger percentage of “deadwood” in the gubermint civilian military support and other civilian staffed alphabet soup named agencies. The only time things began to change was the introduction of NSPS. Oh, but wait, the current regime caved into union demands and NSPS went by the way side. Hmmm, I guess we now know what the future holds for government civilian sector performance standard slugs or free welfare recipients based on past history.….Too bad we did not maintain the tough stance on government civilian performance standards to cut out the majority of the dead wood and waste of taxpayer dollars.

Skinner,

Although, as previously stated, all orgs have some % of deadwood I have seen a much larger percentage of “deadwood” in the gubermint civilian military support and other civilian staffed alphabet soup named agencies. The only time things began to change was the introduction of NSPS. Oh, but wait, the current regime caved into union demands and NSPS went by the way side. Hmmm, I guess we now know what the future holds for government civilian sector performance standard slugs or free welfare recipients based on past history.….Too bad we did not maintain the tough stance on government civilian performance standards to cut out the majority of the dead wood and waste of taxpayer dollars.

All
DOD Gates is probably akin to DOD Sec McNamara as far as cost cutting goes. Both were dedicated Accountants, short sighted, and listened intently to their political masters.
bt
The entire globe currently is simmering with potential hot spots. Economics failures always drive the use of the military. As chaos envelopes the globe, the bean counters worry about how much each metal tray contains in the mess hall lines. Short sighted, you bet.
end
Semper FI
We WILL Prevail

There is room for thinning of our ranks both military and civilian DOD, There are a lot of senior officers and NCO’s who are riding the gravy train and actualy unfit for duty physicaly and can not deploy without waivers a lot of the time and in limmited capacities while deployed. If they can’t pass PT because of being overweight or physicaly unfit then they need to be processed out. Also the standard should be the same for all and not broken up into age and sex brackets, in the field you expect all to maintain pace and carry thier end of the load period and dont divy up responsibilities by age or sex. On the civilian side there are evn more slackers on the payroll, I have seen some folks way past thier prime come to work in wheel chairs and with O2 bottles and only work half days, see a lot retire and come back under contract for same salry as adviser’s under the buddy system but serve no real purpose. But if they really want to cut cost then what say we go back to the original 2 senators per state and no retirement and medical bennefits for them after they leave office unless they serve at least 20yrs the way the military has to.

HOLY CRAP UR CORRECT. plus they get paid like four times what enlisted do. howbout not ever uping there pay that would save millions but then they would take it out on the enlisted (trash as they say)

im eisenhower and the other generals where in the middle not shaking hands and kissing babies on wallstreet

no not step down step up if we would building iraq back up and use it to build us back up it would be great why do we always blow a place up and then rebuild them that is dumb

its not 90 percent nice try

These folks just dont have any real world military knowledge. Carrier strike groups made numerous sorties prior to us getting a foot hold on dry ground in country. Submarines are the only true defense against other submarines which is what other countries are acquiring more of, Surface ships as hard as they try cannot perform ASW ops as well as another sub can, Numerous war games have been held were our subs were put inot an evelope and a dozen surface ships failed at locating them even with the restrictions on the subs. There are some areas that need to be cut but these are not the ones.

First, what the heck are you suggesting he apologize for??
Second, if you knew anything of which you were speaking, you would know that the guys/gals that stay longer than 20 years get FULL retirement when they hit 30 years. So they aren’t exactly suffering.
Third, “what credibility you had” implies you’re a regular, which begs the question of why you log in with guest??

Were it not for Wiliam C.‘s comments this blog would have been a total waste. Everything from incomplete sentences to self serving opinions and questionable agendas don’t do much to convince anyone to accept a denigrating opinion of a man trying to do a difficult job. An absolute know nothing boss doing his best to doom our way of life, to Congressmen wanting to buy more time in office by rewarding selected constituents with fat contracts, to flag officers wanting new and more expensive systems make for a long day at the office To that, add new enemy weapon systems such at the Russian “air bubble” torpedo that is nuclear tipped and capable of 200 knot speeds designed to take out an entire carrier group at one shot. I say give the Secretary a break. I think he is doing a very creditable job.

Here’s the bottom line, pundits: The defense budget has DOUBLED since 9/11. It is not sustainable in any economic environment much less this one. Cuts have to be made; there is simply no sane alternative.

Mr Gates is on track!!! Years ago in the eigthies I told everyone that Rusisia and the communist governments would fall, based on two things, educating the people so that they change their governments (which happened without a shot fired) and the Russians spending way too much money on defense weapons, and bureacy. My prediction today and I am telling everyone that if we do not get the military industrial internal cost growth under control the DOD power point masters and bean counters will bankrupt the United States of America. The terrorist punks and gangs are being caught by police and other agencies. The extremists in the middle east are using $50 dollar items to wage a fight and we are spending trillions? We should set up a special tax that funds this huge military with separate funds. We have a separate tax for social security, a separate tax for medicare and medicaid and we have separate taxes based on gas, tires, batteries, etc, that pay for our infrastructure. We hidding the fact that we are borrowing money to pay for the general government and 90 percent of that goes to the military industrial complex.

We need a Sec Def like Dick Cheney, who should also have been President.

um i agree i would say

working at a regional maintenance facility will tell u that they dont even fire for drug use or mising work or just to stupid for the job. they need to pickit up

love it thats what they need to do but they wont bite the hand that feeds them we need to get them off the tit

Yes indeed there need to be cuts in government spending, but cutting the military budget in wartime is not where those cuts should come from. Lets start with cuts in the bloated entitlement system or perhaps it wasn’t such a great idea to give mega-bucks bonuses to the rich piggies that brought us the banking crisis. Another budget savings could be found by reducing the pay scale for all Congress critters both Senate and House of Representatives, limit Secrect Service details for former Presidents to two years and after that these people need to find and pay for their own security details.

Speaking of reducing payroll there is no reason to pay the President as much as we do now. The office already comes with free furnished room and board, free transportation and a free security detail. Not that it really is free, the taxpayers foot the bill but the occupants (it is plural since the family resides there with the President) of the White House aren’t required to provide any of this for themselves. It would seem a direct dollar for dollar reduction in White House salary for those expenses would represent a quality savings that would not effect the ability of our troops in the field. Additionally, another similar savings could be found by requiring those Congress critters to pay their own way travelling to and from their districts instead of providing taxpayer travel perks.

Finally, a signifcant savings could be found by ending the ever expanding entitlements programs. Talk about dead wood and folks just padding the rolls; these entitlement junkies consume far more of the budget than Generals or NCOs, regardless of the generals’ or NCOs’ military job title.

Unfortunately, the military is and has always been the whipping boy when it comes to the budget and it appears from some of the comments I’ve read here there are folks so displeased with their own military service they are happy to keep on kicking the mil.itary around, even while troops are being killed and maimed in service of this country.

SHAME ON YOU!

Or we could just stop spending trillions on “these bailouts.” We sustained a good sized defense budget back in the 1980s. We can’t slip back into Clinton-era penny pinching.

Skinner, “high intensity war” that is just not going to happen!! WOW! I didn’t realize that Carson’s Carnack had left YOU his crystal ball. Do you work with the NIC? Do you have access to the thinking in all the seats of power in the world.…where did you get this mystical power to devine the future.…just how can you see the future when the rest of the 6 billion of us humans cannot. LOL…Sad.

yeah, writing NONSENSE and occationally PUNCTUATING it with MISPELT GENERALITIES and RANDOM PHASES sooooo makes your point. (whatever that was…)

You must be in senior management for Boeing or Lockheed. “properly pay” let’s examine your statement. F-22 over budget over promised under delivered. F-35 over budget over promised under delivered. And no one says it’s OK for government to waste trillions of dollars on anything, retard. Grumpy Old Salt keep it up, maybe if enough sane people speak out we can drown out the fools.

Amen, fee. DoD is out of control, victim of its own vicious cycles. Guess what, High Tech RDT&E and PROC weapon systems have High O&M Costs, too. That’s why the guys can’t get their parts and train properly. Agree with you too Doc, on military pay raises. Unsustainable… In the end, we will all suffer for our gluttony and unwillingness to live within our means.

Look, F-35 is a hopeless cause. You have no idea how bad F-35 is going to get. We’d be better off killing F-35 completely, and just sustaining, upgrading, and replacing our F-16s and F-18s, and just use all the SAVINGS to buy more long range cruise missiles, UAVs, Intel, Offensive Info Ops, and clandestine capabilities. You are DARN STRAIGHT state on state wars as you know them are over. Anyone foolish enough to take us on toe to toe is in a world of hurt on Day One thanks to all of the above. We don’t NEED a big jump in the dark with new “super” platforms, we need to develop improved capabilities with what we GOT now.

Boy, your going to get banned really fast if you keep this up. Sunk cost isn’t really that hard to understand.

The F-35 is hopeless? Have you flown the thing, did you work on it? Despite the delays, no prototypes have crashed, nobody has been killed, test flights have been seriously ramped up in recent months, and the test pilots have all commented on how well the plane handles.

Most of the F-16s in USAF would require some rebuilding in the next decade. Even the APG-80 on the E/F variants (which are not in USAF service) isn’t as powerful a radar as the APG-81. The F-16 simply doesn’t have the same stealth features, sensors, or range as the F-35A. The F-35C could be cancelled and the orginal Hornets simply replaced by more Super Hornets, but that is up to the Navy to decide. When it comes to the F-35B, there simply is no alternative. The Harrier II isn’t even in production anymore.

I think the F-22 needs to be put back in production and the F-35 plan needs some modification, but otherwise, the aircraft easily has the potential to replace the F-16, regular F/A-18, and AV-8.

Served in USAF 6 years, HQDA Staff 3 years, 4 more years in Industry, Masters in Engineering, DAU-certified is that enough credentials for you? And your background Is??? Do you honestly need an education on F-22 under-delivering?? What do you call a project that promise a flyaway cost of $35M@ and at best they delivered $140M@. F-35 is doing the same thing now — it was promised to get down to $50M and now it’s on track for $90-$110M. This is before all the efforts to “Fix” the project. And you’re missing the main culprit behind F-22 soaring cost: the integration of the puny air-ground capability stuck on as an afterthought to keep the project alive. If someone promised to build you a house for $200K and delivered it for $400K would you say bravo?

Dude, you are either guilty of trying to capitalize on, or to gullible to believe in the Sunk Cost Fallacy. Look it up. F-35 is not working ok? They lied and low-balled the initial cost estimates to sucker Congress in and now reality is hitting, and it’s going to get worse.

I would MUCH rather have my tax dollars go to ensuring the United States military is the best in the world than bailouts and social pork projects. When it comes to cutting government spending, the military is the LAST place we should be looking. Not enough goes to procurement as is! But some latte drinking fool like yourself would rather just bash the defense industry and have our soldiers use the same old equipment for the next 50 years.

How did the F-22 under-deliver? The only thing that was under-delivered was the total number of airframes thanks to the politicians as usual. Yeah it was over-budget, but that is what happens when a program gets streched out in order to save some money in the short term. Yet the end result was still the finest air-superiority fighter to enter service yet. The F-35 isn’t even in service and your already dismissing it.

You claim to have an idea of what you are talking about. Then surely you know the effect of stretching out a program and it’s production run for what are primary political reasons, surely you know the cost of requirement creep and other unforeseen developments. I’m not denying the F-22 was over-budget, but that isn’t all Lockheed’s fault.

The F-35 has run into some problems no doubt, but it could be far worse. Earlier issues like the fighter being overweight were solved, and Lockheed is finally managing to scale up testing. Your demanding we cancel the program based on muddled cost projections for the first aircraft off the production line. Yeah the F-35 will have some teething problems… just like every other aircraft that enters service. Objective analysis? Just like all of the “objective analysis” by the media the M1 Abrams, M2 Bradley, F-14, F-15, and any big price tag project gets? And Rand released a study regarding the cost of new F-22 production awhile back, not that bad actually.

You want to bash the F-35, go ahead. But how about some real alternatives rather than just saying keep flying the same F-16s and F/A-18s for the next 30 years? We should be looking at what the services should have, not “this costs too much so lets fall behind.”

No I haven’t flown the plane, my objection to it is from a cost and a macro what’s best for the country perspective. The RDTE and Production costs are skyrocketing, which means O&M will too, which means that there will be spare parts shortages, unaddressed software deficiencies, inability to meet training requirements, etc. “the test pilots have all commented on how well the plane handles.” Well gee ain’t that just great, what would you expect them to say, the plane sucks so please fire us? Give me a break. This is why objective analysis is so important. You think the F-22 needs to be put back in production good for you. You don’t have a price tag for that bill I suppose? Of course not.

William C, let me address your myopic, platform-centric, misguided analysis of national defense. First on F-22 — there’s plenty of blame all around — ultimately though USAF was in charge of Lockheed, USAF is more accountable for the project failure. Your optimistic appraisal of the F-35 is detached from reality. You minimize F-35’s failures as “some problems” and you are guilty of optimism bias. Read the latest GAO assessment of the F-35. How about this one: DoD enters JSF production before adequate testing. Do you have any idea from a systems engineering perspective how BAD of a move that is? Before you bash GAO you understand DoD concurs with GAO analysis right? And I just laugh at you guys that like to justify the superfighters based on the contrived fighter vs fighter dogfighting, as if our national security challenges boiled down to jets vs jets, like knights jousting or something. Read up on proper systems engineering, cost estimating, and national defense as a whole. You understand opportunity costs right? Like, when your beloved platforms go over budget we COULD be using the resources on programs that provide greater national security right?

William C — you are wrong, wrong, wrong. Why “must” National Security be platform centric? I’d rather focus on preventing enemies from killing us than obsess on goldplated mousetraps. So basically, we can either blow our treasury on perfecting platforms, or we can accept good enough, cost-effective solutions and manage scarce resources to accomplish OBJECTIVES. for example: Iraq War — Soldiers getting killed by IED’s. Objective: Prevent Soldier from getting killed. Solution: MRAPs. SMART. My argument against the F-35 is there are most cost effective ways to accomplish the same Objectives. OK, so now you are shifting the argument for the F-35 to sensors and detection. Guess what? UAVs are CHEAPER and have greater loiter capabilities and use less fuel, so UAVs beat F-35 in the sensor and detection KPP.

And the platform, weather it be a AFV with new composite armor or stealth fighter does prevent enemies from killing the men operating those systems. Your under the assumption that we can just “stop” building all of our fancy conventional war assets and then just “start” building that stuff again a few years later. The industry doesn’t work that way, and that is how one falls behind.

It was the right call to mass produce all of those MRAPs as quickly as we could, yet MRAPs are pretty much useless at anything other than convoy escorts and patrolling urban areas. We can’t keep building them as a substitute for MBTs and IFVs now. Those UAVs have a very limited air-to-air capability, and most aren’t going to last very long against a good integrated air defense system. It is great to have plenty of Reaper and Predator drones flying overhead, but they are no replacement for the F-16 either.

My point is we need to build assets specialized for counter-insurgency operations, AND the high-tech “gold-plated” ships and aircraft that ensure we control the seas and skies.

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