Iran Toughest Nut To Crack

Iran Toughest Nut To Crack

North Korea, bereft of friends and access to the outside world, sits isolated but for its great northern neighbor and its ports, so it can be fairly easily contained as a nuclear power. But Iran boasts Shiite followers in a wide arc of the Muslim world, produces oil with which it wins friends and influences people, is bound by eight neighbors and trades with them and many others. It fields and funds terrorists such as Hezbollah who do its bidding when needed. So Iran is not easily contained. That flexibility, and the fact that Iran learned from Iraq’s experience when Israel destroyed the Osirak nuclear plant — disperse your facilities, bury them, reinforce them and lie about them — makes them a formidably difficult state to isolate or control.

That was the basic summary offered by the Bush administration’s top arms control official, Ambassador Robert Joseph, speaking with reporters at the Heritage Foundation. “Iran is the hardest case. In North Korea you can practice containment,” Joseph said. Complicating the problem even more is that an Israeli strike against Iran’s nuclear facilities might serve to unite the Iranian people against both Israel and the United States. “If Israel strikes, we are going to be blamed for it regardless of whether we did anything,” he said.

Asked if the U.S should turn a blind eye to an Israeli strike or help them with one, Joseph said he was “not an enthusiast for using force against Iran because there are tremendous consequences.” Those consequences would include the use of the economic weapon of oil and attacks against U.S forces, facilities and our allies. On top of all that, as we headed to the elevator after the discussion, Joseph added that the Iranians are very effective in their use of diplomacy, intelligence and deception.


And those cautionary notes come from a Republican who served as undersecretary of State for arms control and international security. Imagine how enthusiastic Obama’s senior national security people are about hitting Iran.

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And what gets forgettin in Iran conversations is that Iraq is next door; and the US is Iran’s neighbor; and furthermore, who will guarantee Iraqi sovereignty as the US is embedded in Iraq?

We occupy Iraq and Afghanistan, which both border Iran.

Its time to make friends with Iran and make a deal with them. If we keep them close to us the possibility of destabilization in the ME will be reduced dramatically. We have been dragging our feet with them for so long and think that the problem is going to go away. What has happened during this time is that they have become stronger and stronger even though they are under sanctions. They have China and Russia on there side and I mean who are we kidding here? we can’t get any substantial sanctions on Iran because of these two major powers. China and Russia are too strong right now for us to dictate to them and we are economically too weak. We do not have the means to get into a costly war with Iran which will cost more than a few times than what Iraq and Afghanistan has cost us. we are loosing our might and if we keep playing this waiting game it’ll be too late for us unfortunately. If we lose a battle here to Iran and back down there will be a major battle to be won waiting for us. Plus the battle we are giving to Iran will be so small since at the end of the day they will not have a bomb.
What do you guys think? Lets keep it as intellectual as possible and believe me the thought of what i’m proposing here is hard to digest but I believe it’ll be us who wins at the end.

USA must choose between IRAN and ISRAEL

USA has no choice but to cooperate with the iranians .….

the iranians are the middle east’s super power

I don’t think they have to choose between Iran or Israel. No one is going to turn on there ally that easily. look at Syria and Iran you can’t put a wedge between the two.. I think it’ll be the same for US and Israel. I really believe that Iran is the middle east’s super power and that all the issues at hand (Israel-Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan) has a key that Iran holds. These are the great battles that Iran will help the US win and what I was referring to in my original post.
I believe that there should be a need for urgency at this juncture right now and we should get the ball rolling. Europe and Iran are back at the negotiating table after Turkey and Brazil got involved and came up with a new proposal. We should take advantage of the situation right now and strike a deal with them.

Ehsan:

Being friends with Iran is not an option. They have been covertly attacking us for decades and are committed to our destruction as a matter of principle.

If the Iranian regime should change, then friendship and cooperation could easily flourish. But the current regime literally could not survive friendship with the U.S. and it knows it.

It’s pretty simple. Impose sanctions on their oil import/exports and if they don’t feel the pinch of that, then a strike on their facilities is what will be called for. The only thing worse than a strike on their facilities is an Iran that is emboldened with a nuclear shield to continue the activities it is currently undertaking. As far as the lunatics who think we can “make friends” and “cooperate” with Iran. We already ARE cooperating with Iran. We haven’t put any punitive/effective sanctions on them, and beyond lip service about how naughty they are for their nuclear program, we haven’t done ANYTHING. And how, or WHY would we have any reasons to make nice with them? Why would we reward a regime that slaughters and tortures its own people who are remotely opposed to the regime, who systematically rapes its female inmates so they can be executed under Islamic law, who hangs people for being homosexual? Why would we reward a regime that openly supports, arms, and finances terrorist groups such as Hezbullah, Hamas, and insurgent groups who ALREADY go after US forces in OEF/OIF theaters? Why would we reward a country that threatens on a daily basis (if you ever look at Iranian news outlets) to destroy our only true ally of similar values in the region 9and yes Israel is the ONLY country in the region where men, women, gays, lesbians, even arabs who call for the destruction of israel, are represented in their Parliament)? I see no reason whatsoever to reward this sort of nonsense by Iran. If our current President had any sense of how these people operate he would get on CNN/FOX/etc and say directly to Ahmadinejad, “We will meet in Geneva in a week where either you agree to open your nuclear facilities to international inspectors, or else we impose sanctions that will crush your economy.”

I agree completely with RetUSMC,

and “observer” I wasn’t aware that the Iranian revolutionary guard bothered trying to sway public opinion on blogs these days?

RFL, you need to re-write that or change your login to WTF.….

Some truth to that, however I don’t think it has to be a either/or decision. That being said you can’t keep pumping money into Israel and expect Iran to be happy about it.

Those whot it is possible to make friend with an islamic Iran are foolish and don’t understand what is Islam and what the Coran says.

no, it’s spelled stuporpower.You know, where your country is so backward you try to build nukes at the same time you can’t even build a refinery to support your own country’s gasoline demand

RetUSMC and like — you seem to be under the mistaken impression that the US president in president of the world. What business is it of ours what weapons Iran chooses to arm itself with, hmmm? What business is it our ours if they have laws against homosexuality or treat women less well than we do here? Believe it or not, we do not rule the whole world, nor should we want to. Would we take it kindly if some idiot blowhard from India, China, or Russia were to say that we are over-armed and need to be sanctioned? Moronic.

As Ehsan says, time for war is over (btw, sanctions and embargoes are acts of war). You DO NOT want 80 million Iranians to be your enemies for life. Even the Bush admin recognized this truth and avoided taking the aggressive steps mentioned above. What they did not do, as they should have in 2003, was achieve a grand bargain with Iran, based on our position of strength at the time. Well, better late than never.

What business of ours? Because who is to say what these radicals will do with nuclear weapons! When a city gets destroyed by a suitcase nuke, you will know the Iranians are to blame.

If the Iranians refuse to back down and sanctions aren’t effective, we should be willing to wage an aerial campaign against them and hit suspected nuclear development sites. And maybe that will also silence those attacking the need for the USAF.

Legally, it IS our business if Iran gets nuclear weapons because Iran is a signatory of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, in which it agreed to forego nukes in exchange for civilian nuclear tech. Israel, India and Pakistan are NOT signatories so have no legal obligation to avoid nukes.

90% of Iran’s oil is withing 70 miles of the southern Iraqi border, or on the gulf. Before Iran responds to an attack by targeting US interests, it might ponder what would happen if US marines occupy that 70 x 150 mile strip of its territory, which is populated by Arabs, not Persians.

I think Caliman (note; interesting association with the land of Calormen in C.S. Lewis’ Chronicles of Narnia) has a point. We certainly would be hypocrites should we as a nation attempt to promote human rights, in light of our Commander in Chief’s efforts to befriend and honor authoritarian leaders of Venezuela, Cuba or Saudi Arabia (do I bow now, or wait?)
It is the ongoing debate between those who consider the diplomacy of Chamberlin or Churchill successful, or Carter or Reagan. Respect in the field of diplomacy is earned through strength, real or perceived, and the core of that strength is the will found in common belief.
Iran’s strength (the will of the people aside) is generated not by it’s lackluster military or it’s lopsided economy, dependent on oil sales(they import gasoline, do they not,) but on the forceful will and determination of a charismatic leader.
The U.S. has negotiated with these types before, with mixed results. This one will be tough, not because of his nuclear threats, or his 80 million subjects, but because of the billions of Muslims around the world that would love to see their superiority demonstrated and their victim status vindicated. He has much to gain!
Getting the United States to back down might serve that purpose. Do we care, does it matter?

I second the point made by RetUSMC above. That is spot on analysis.

@caliman, you couldn’t be more wrong. Of course it is our business if a nation who threatens a global economic chokepoint, who threatens other nations with eradication, who threatens its own people unless they completely obey the regime. Of course it is our business. Maybe if you are part of the IRGC or the rest of the regime, you wouldn’t want it to be our business, but you arent going to get away with institutionalized murder, rape, torture, and oppression.

News flash to all the warmongers on this thread: there are no ongoing hostilities between the nations of Iran and our USA. If the US initiates such an act of war, it will be the US who will be acting as the agressors, as Germany and Japan did in WWII, not Iran. Iran talks big, but has not attacked anyone for hundreds of years (not because they don’t want to, but because they’re weak). It will be we who will be forever deserving of a whole people’s enmity for bringing war and destruction to them w/o cause. Was Iraq not enough? You cannot attack someone militarily because of what you suspect them of wanting to do. That is a criminal attack on another nation sovereignty, illegal by anyone’s estimation, and the prime crime Nazis were tried under in Nuremberg.____YalePHD — that you cannot distinguish between the comments of an american patriot vs a member of the IRGC just shows how ludicrously out of touch the right-wing military fanatics (to be distinguished from the actual serving military men and women) have become in this great land. Ever read George Washington’s farewell address or John Quincy Adams’ admonition against foreign entanglements? That’s what I support.__

A air strike is not going to stop them in the long term when they have a number of spread out facilities which are underground. Leveling the country (bombing them into the stone age) is not a realistic option.…the American people are tired of new conflicts.

@Caliman, if you are so out of touch with reality to think that George Washington’s comments about foreign entanglements still applies in a world of globalization and intercontinental threats, you are either incredibly naive or just so close minded that i don’t know how you learned to operate a computer. And no it won’t be the US acting as an aggressor, it would be as if we were the British and instead of trying a policy of appeasement, we decided to go after the Germans before they started bombing London. You need to either start reading more history books other than your signed copy of the “protocols of Zion”.

@Caliman, simply put, Isolationism has no place in the modern world… time for you to grow up and see the world as it really is.

@Cali and other IRGC sympathizers… maybe try reading RetUSMC comment again and understand it from a perspective of reality and not your Kool-Aid chugging stool.

There are plenty of hostilities between the US and Iran right now. We’ve been fighting each other in small numbers ever since we invaded Iraq in 2003. Iran has deployed mortar and rocket teams and trained insurgents since the war started. The big risk right now to openly attacking Iran would be them retaliating on our troops in Iraq and Kuwait. We still have 90,000 troops in theater there and they’re sitting ducks on their FOBs.

In the Article ” Is Iran Really a Threat?” By Ray McGovern on April 26, 201, the Arthur shows how the lies and propaganda to create Iran phobia is nothing more than a smoke screen and how it is back firing on them. Ouur own Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said publicly that Iran “doesn’t directly threaten the United States.” Her momentary lapse came while answering a question at the U.S.-Islamic World Forum in Doha, Qatar, on Feb. 14.

She continues and says “Part of the goal — not the only goal, but part of the goal — that we were pursuing was to try to influence the Iranian decision regarding whether or not to pursue a nuclear weapon. And, as I said in my speech, you know, the evidence is accumulating that that [pursuing a nuclear weapon] is exactly what they are trying to do, which is deeply concerning, because it doesn’t directly threaten the United States, but it directly threatens a lot of our friends, allies, and partners here in this region and beyond.” (Emphasis added).

The moderator turned to Qatari Prime Minister Sheikh Hamad Bin Jassim Al-Thani and invited him to give his perspective on “the danger that the Secretary just alluded to…if Iran gets the bomb.”
Al-Thani stressed that, “For a small country, stability and peace are very important,” and intimated — diplomatically but clearly — that he was at least as afraid of what Israel and the U.S. might do, as what Iran might do.

Al-Thani pointed to Iran’s “official answer” that it is not seeking to have a nuclear bomb; instead, the Iranians “explain to us that their intention is to use these facilities for their peaceful reactors for electricity and medical use…

Former French President Jacques Chirac is perhaps the best-known statesman to hold up to ridicule the notion that Israel, with between 200 and 300 nuclear weapons in its arsenal, would consider Iran’s possession of a nuclear bomb an existential threat.

These scare tactics have not worked and will not work because the only obstacle to peace in the Middle east is the rogue Zionist state and it is more clear today than ever before. The shoe is on the other foot now and the Zionists have to answer to the IAEA about their stock pile of A-bombs. Confronted by the Nuclear free zone in the Middle East the Zionists say “There is nothing new here, and no reason for a change of direction on our part,”. It seems to work for them to have an umbrella to committee all sorts of atrocities such as the one reported by the UN in the “Goldstone” report.

Then they have the audacity to say “”We don’t really like this matter, but is there anything to fear, really? I don’t think so,” Israel Michaeli of the Israel Atomic Energy Commission said”. If there is nothing to fear then why don’t the Zionists sign the NPT or why even have 200+ A-bombs in the first place?! It is very clear that they want the neighboring countries to fear them and not to fight the Zionists aggressions.

Esther,
You need to look at Israel’s geography to see why Iran possessing a nuclear device is an existential threat to Israel. One small nuclear bomb going off in Israel would physically split the country in two. Israel’s diameter is not that great. Countries like Iran, Syria, Iraq, U.S., Russia and China can absorb nuclear strikes and maintain the cohesiveness as a country. Israel can not.

I would disagree with Mr Michaeli, if in giving territory (Gaza and West Bank) to become havens for their enemies(Hamas and Hezbollah) and are still considered to be “Zionist aggressors” that they have much to fear.
Over the history of the nation of Israel they have faced constant assaults on their very existence from all of their neighboring lands. It would seem that a potential nuclear arsenal might help to preserve their nation status.
Unless, of course, you believe it may the hand of God.….….…

Those who are interesting in exploring the pathology afflicting Liberal Intellectualism in relation to the ME and Islam, here is a worthy interview: http://​www​.michaeltotten​.com/​2​0​1​0​/​0​5​/​t​h​e​-​f​l​i​g​h​t-o…

I suggest you all read it including all the Iranian apologists here who fail to consider the far more dangerous consequences of allowing the regime in Tehran from squiring nukes. I find it ironic that a member of the Republican team that so mangled our use of force, Iran now enjoys the benefits of what they could not do by force themselves. Perhaps Joseph is using the measure of competency quotient employed by Rummie or Cheney and has determined pre-emption is too dangerous.

Soon there will be enough criminal third parties, inexpensive weapon systems and WMD materials to allow for the blameless Iranian transfer of illegal assets. Gates has recently expressed alarm for the change in the balance of Gulf power. A bogus Grand Bargain will be the administrations downfall and lead to a greater change of regional conflict, so I think the Iran choir will be disappointed. There are many Sunnis who want Iran curbed and bristle at the notion Iran is the ME superpower. While Assad declares Sunni-Israeli relations are driving ME conflict, in fact, Shia/Sunni relations are driving ME conflict. Ain’t history ironic?

Hey Caliman, Ive found that many of those hard core soldiers that you speak so boldly for are usualy real eager to give up when confronted, while there will be casualties sustained on our side it will most likely come from small groups of radicals and not the whole population. As long as they threaten our allies they are a threat to us as well. Also we know we have limitted control over Isreal and will only be pushed (threatened) to a limit before they react which is why we are involved.

While I agree the US has to stop demonizing Iran (the world knows they are an issue and the tough talk only makes diplomacy more difficult) the US now has to have a dialogue with Iran and solve the problem. That means cutting a deal. The Iranians have already hinted they are willing to do this.

However I disagree with the statement that China and Russia are on their side. They are simply willing to talk and maintain a relationship with Iran which is useful in communicating and negotiating with them. Russia also has the carrot of its trade, particularly arms, specifically the S-300 which Iran has been after for a while but Russia has not delivered. Its not stated as much but these are the kind of things that Russia want to use as leverage to help solve the Iranian issue diplomatically. The fact that both China and Russia have signalled they are willing to support greater sanctions is evidence they don’t support Iran but both countries do not believe further sanctions will achieve anything, and I agree.

The potential (but minor) problem is Israel; however if they see that diplomacy is underway the US should be able to placate them fairly easily from doing something stupid.

If we make a deal with Iran then they will NOT have the bomb. If they go behind everyones back and make the bomb then they will lose all their friends support (Russia and China). At that time we will be able to get sanctions that really work (i.e. oil embargo). We should also understand that if Russia and China’s position is for Iran to have the bomb then there is ABSOLUTELY nothing we can do.
An attack on Iran will cause a massive retaliation on our interests in the middle east. And lets make one thing clear here, Iran has A LOT of weight militarily IN THE REGION (where we are) as pointed out in this article and also recently by Robert Gates. Also, an attack on Iran will cause them to get out of the NPT and make the bomb (legally). Just like Israel, Pakistan and India.
I remember several months ago reading an article about how Iran has been playing chess vs. us palying poker and another article where Iran’s parliament speaker Ali Larijani invited the United States to come to the negotiating table and play chess. I think that both of these titles should be entertained and that we should approach the matter with logic and patriotism rather than emotion and patriotism.

USMC the Iranians are ticked off with the US for a number of reasons but not so much because the US are infidel non muslim etc etc They maintain relations with many non-Islamic states. The main reasons are that the US interfere with and most of all, the US is the guardian angel of Israel. Iran doesnt like Israel and never will but as long as the Islamic states know that nothing will ever be allowed to happen to Israel then we can get somewhere. Even groups like Hamas which were dedicated to the destruction of Israel, once they gained responsibility for Palistinians, started to grow up a bit.

Its hypocritical to not make ‘nice’ with them when the US was friendly with Saddam until it was expedient for him to be an enemy, even though he tortured, murdered etc his own citizens. Despite this Iraq was a stable, secular nation that didnt tolerate the fundamentalist wackos that are now giving the world grief.

Learn a little bit. The attack on the Marines in Beirut was done by Iran. In fact, they couldn’t trust the locals enough so they had an Iranian drive the truck with the nice big bomb.

Khobar towers? An Iranian operation.

All those nice little EFP’s in Iraq and Afghanistan? Wonder where they came from?

Iran IS at war with us. We’ve just not taken the war to them.

Just read what RetUSMC originally wrote near the top on this message board. I think it’s the most coherent and sensible thing I’ve read on here.

The Iranians have beaten the US at every turn for the last 50 years and it isn’t going to stop anytime soon. Regime change is just a Cold War fantasy like so much of failing US foreign policy, driven by a population that is too scared to enter the 21st century.

I would agree with RetUSMC if we could impose such sanctions. The FACT is we haven’t because we can’t. We have taken iran’s file to the UN and imposed 3 sanctions since a few years ago and all of them have very easily been very weak. why? because China and Russia said a big fat NO to the sanctions that you are talking about. Which means US would have to do it unilaterally which will eventually lead to an attack on iran which US simply can not do right now because again if we could have we would have already done so.
So if you can not impose sanctions that can bite and if we can not attack them then logic would say try a third option.

Really? Are you retarded? Have you not read a history book.…ever? You probably meant to write, the Iranians have beaten themselves every step of the way. Whether it is internal civil strife, internal economic chaos, an ongoing war with Iraq where the Basij would tie children together and tell them to run through Iraqi minefields to clear the way for the IRGC. What part of Iran is not a joke??

If violently suppressing internal opposition, taking foreign embassy staff hostage, threatening foreign governments with attack, plotting world destruction, fighting a bloody, pointless war with a neighbor, violation of UN sanctions, providing training for terrorism of peaceful civilians, and general hatred for the values 21st century oblat refers to, is the nature of Iran, then there is no moral “high ground” here.
The result of Iran’s political activities is evident in the charging of the disoriented hikers as spies and the parents begging (and later thanking Iran) for an opportunity to visit their children.
The battle is for the hearts and minds of the people and everyone should avoid the luxury of simply blaming the US for this sorry world’s problems.

Pardon my ignorance, but I’ve always seen articles where Israel is portrayed as a close US ally. Why does the US fund so much money to Israel? Of what strategic importance is a tiny country surrounded by hostile states (which have large oil reserves, Israel doesn’t)? To have a “puppet” (in the sense that they’re in line with US interests) regime through which we can exert our influence? Isn’t that what Iraq and Afghanistan are?
In the 2008 election, I kept hearing “we love Israel, we love Israel.” Okay, I get it, but why? To me, it’d make more sense to “love” and heavily Westernize an oil-rich country like Iraq or Iran or Saudi Arabia. I honestly don’t get why Israel is seen as such a high priority for US interests.

Nico thats not that easy to answer without sounding somewhat like an anti-semite. Many will say that Israel has the same ideals and common interests as the US (democratic, peace-loving, freedom loving [LOL], etc) . There is also the responsibility of the West towards Israel for establishing the country in the first place after WW2 and starting the whole mess. On a deeper level though, there are many rich and influential jews in the US who want their ‘homeland’ supported. Their wealth and therefore their influence is profound.

PLEASE!
After all the dollars the U.S. has dumped into the Palestinian state only to end up in the personal accounts of the likes of Arafat or worse yet, Hamas it is at least nice to know the money invested in Israel is producing some thing besides the weapons that seem so popular throughout the middle east.
If Israel is so insignificant why is the Iranian dictator so obsessed with their destruction. This didn’t start in 1948 AD, but 1948 BC might be closer. Read the fate of Moab, Edom, Philistia, Assyria, Persia and other ancient kingdoms of the region. Consider that Israel is the only nation to recover its historical identity and establish leadership in democratic elections.
All the oil in the world does not buy that sense of destiny. It may pay for the mosque in your city, though,.….….

I believe a good blow to Irans arrogance would be to smash and destroy all their Nuclear sites.
The might wake them up to reallity.

yeah man, those iranians really scare me. they will be dealt with in due time…

well, the GREEKS handled the “massive Persian army”..they kicked thier azz a couple times, iran talks and acts with belligerence, promoting genocide and the like. ruled by apocalyptic old men and deeds carried out by deluded zealots. see ya in hell when its time, coz thats where w’ere headed.

The Scariest Country for the MEerners is the US.
Iran doesn’t scare me at all!!! They are not going to start the end of themselves by starting a war with anyone. The US knows it, Israel knows and so does the rest of the world. All they have said is that they will give a “Crushing Response” to anyone who attacks them and have stated time and again that they will not attack anyone and that there history has shown that they have not attacked anyone for a few century’s compared to the US/ISRAEL history. Ahmadinejad’s statments have been taken out of context in order to vilify him. I suggest everyone to go on you tube and to listen to his interviews with american hosts. I have listened to a several interviews and after all said and done when I listen to what he is saying i do not find him “Crazy”. I Definitely disagree with stuff he says but he is not what the media makes him out to be.
I feel that it is absolutely ridiculous that we go into Iraq find no WMD’s create a civil/sectarian war there and still have the attitude that what we did was OK. As a result of us going into Iraq 600,000 civilians have died. We didn’t kill them all the 600k but if we hadn’t gone in they’d be alive. We are so arrogant and so full of our selves that we act like everyone is out to get us but we do not see the image that we have created for our selves.

What’s America doing in the Middle East again?

lol

Guys, with all respect, you have no sense, experience and idea about there, first. you know only through books or pictures… Secondly, please, separate the issue of regime or government or “players” from Iran, than Iranian and people. Those are historical, national and economical pirates who have even stolen the smallest smile from such a noble nation’s face for at least 30 years.

Understand them and then give comments. I was born there and I know the facts and I already abhor them and what has been going on at least for 32 years. But it is not fair also the way the world has been playing on IRAN, shake their hands and endorsing or even helping those pirates. But people are paying all the price and unfortunate they have been the only targets, victims and sufferers, internally and externally. Why no body talks about it that this regime doesn’t need and deserve this much attention and struggle. A little true help of people would change everything faster than even air raid. But it seems world likes it this way. Why world play it just for themselves?!

World should re-think about this and it is so unfair…

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