Pass Supp Or Gates Does ‘Stupid’ Things

Pass Supp Or Gates Does ‘Stupid’ Things

UPDATED: GOP Leaders Urge Obama To Push Spending; GE/Rolls Fire Back At Gates on F136

The House must act on the wartime supplemental spending bill by the Fourth of July or Defense Secretary Robert Gates will have to start doing “stupid” things. That’s what Gates told the Senate Appropriations defense subcommittee this morning.

Among those “stupid” things: performing “disruptive” planning on how to manage money for operations. What might happen? Gates said the Navy and Marines will begin to run out of money in July; the “Army comes along a little behind that.” Things would start to get serious in early to mid August when money in the base budget would begin to run out and the department would face the dire prospect of first having to furlough civilians and then plan for the possibility that it could not pay some of those in uniform.


Things have gotten complicated in the House when it comes to the supplemental. The defense spending bill has gotten tangled in $23 billion for teachers, an issue close to heart of Rep. David Obey, chairman of the House Appropriations Committee, who largely controls the progress of all spending bills in the House. And, of course, teachers unions are major supporters of the Democratic Party. That may have something to do with reports that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is supportive of Obey’s move to hold up the war supplemental until the teachers get something.

A few hours after the Senate hearing, senior House defense Republicans joined with colleagues who follow education and wrote a letter to Obama in which they urge him to push through the supplemental.

“The House has failed to provide the wartime supplemental funding to our military in Afghanistan and Iraq because the Democrat leadership intends to meet the demands of teachers’ unions by adding billions of dollars in new, extraneous funding for state and local budgets. Delaying funds to our troops on the front lines to bail out state governments is dangerous and irresponsible,” they wrote.

The letter was signed by Jerry Lewis, ranking member of the House Appropriations Committee; Buck McKeon, ranking member of the House
Armed Services Committee; and John Kline, ranking member of the House Education and Labor Committee.

In other news from this morning’s hearing, Gates repeated his veto threat should funding for the F136 find its way into any of the defense bills. And he offered some new arguments for his opposition to the second engine for the Joint Strike Fighter. In his prepared testimony, Gates said “it would be a serious mistake” to think President Obama won’t veto defense bills just because they contain things the administration really wants.

Gates said in his prepared remarks that “the solution to understandable concern over the performance of the Pratt & Whitney program is not to spend yet more money to add a second engine.” And he added some new wrinkles, saying the department thinks the GE/Rolls Royce engine “probably does not meet the performance standards that are required, and more money would be required to bring it up to those standards.”

He also argued that a competition had been held and the best program offer had won. “My idea of a competition is winner-take-all and we’ve had that competition, and it’s time to move on,” he said.

The GE-Rolls Royce partnership fired back soon after the hearing ended:

The F136 engine is having an excellent testing program in 2010, meeting and exceeding all performance expectations in terms of aero-mechanical characteristics, temperature margins, turbine design, the control system and operability.

The secretary’s comments contradict the detailed assessment from the Department of Defense, which has consistently awarded very good and excellent ratings to the F136.

The F136 development program is on time and on schedule.

At the onset of the F136’s full-scale development program in 2005, the engine design was specifically modified to meet new requirements for the aircraft. As a result, GE and Rolls-Royce are highly confident that the engine will continue to meet and exceed all performance expectations during 2010, when a total of six test engines are scheduled to run, and next year, when the engine is flight tested on JSF aircraft.

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This tells you how messed up our government is. Teachers (bless them all) are not government employees and should not be getting funding over the DoD. And government bowing down to unions is so much more proof of corruption in the government. If future funding is causing that much of a drain on our ability to maintain our current defece requirements then everyone involved in them needs to be fired right now and replaced with individuals who understand that there will be no future US military if we cant defend the US in the here and now. No more bailouts, no more hiring of staff members and providing them bonuses. Cut Congressional staffing personnel 50% and funding 75%, Let congressmen live by the same perdium the rest of the govt (GS-13 and below) have to live by to include rental cars and hotels, make them pay out of pocket if they cant live on 46.00 a day for food. Clean house in washington (who they always make sure is front funded with padding first) and then there wont be any shortfalls in DoD.

“probably does not meet the performance standards that are required, and more money would be required to bring it up to those standards.”

Gates doesn’t sound terribly convinced of that statement. Did he pull that out of thin air at the last minute?

I dont think he’s very well informed on anything he talks about. It should be as in days gone by where the govt puts out what they are interested in and expectations and then let the hopeful contractors scramble to see who can come up with the best and most cost effective product rather than us giving them money and asking if they can build something that can do this or that and if you need more money let us know. Things have really gotten bad.

Once again the Congress forces equipment on the Pentagon that they do not want.

Hopefully Conservative and Moderate Democrats will continue to hold the line against further teacher’s union bailouts.

Boomer is right. We need get rid of the likes of Nancy Pelosi and others who want to fund stupid projects and union bailouts over defense spending. This is ridiculous. How can congress and other politicians do this you might ask? Well he said it right. Corruption. And things need to change. But alas, this is AMerika, the great demockracy…not America the great democracy.

There are two arguments to the alternative engine debate: (1) The P&W versus GE/RR second engine debate is do you want to save some dollars in the near term or lots of dollars over the life of the program? A couple hundred million (or even a billion) now or forego $6 to $20 billion later? One engine builds in monopoly pricing, which means P&W gets to keep about 20% in total engine costs. That’s will triple their profits! I like the latter — price competition. (2) Do you want a second “plu and play” engine in case the first has technical or operational problems later? I don’t feel we should take the risk. Two is better than one.

Someone needs to tell the President to think for himself.

Ya know what — I know how to get some more cash flowing in, How about since non of the bail outs have trully paid us back yet in full, and some not at all — we don to them like they have done to us citizens for so long and raise thier intrest rates to 30%. Yup every month I want a 30% min payment on my misappropriated taxdollars given for bailouts to shysters without my permission and turned over to the ARMY — NAVY — AIRFORCE — MARINES & COAST GUARD so that they can continue to aid me in sleeping comfortably at night. If they dont pay we confiscate their corporations, freeze all thier assets to include all board member assets (personal & business related) and auction them off piece by piece here in the US in order to keep more foriegner from ownig stock in the US. That is my really angry with the govt ideal.

Its ashame to see our Secretary of Defense make the comments he does about he F136. Clearly he is not being told of the significant progress the F136 has made, the accolades and award fees the F136 Program receives from the JPO (USG) year over year. Its ashame he does not believe in his own Government Accounting Office (GAO) studies and reports and those reports from the Congessional Reporting Service (CRS) all who state that the alternate engine will provide a savings up to 20B over the life of the JSF Program and that each contractors responsiveness would increase, cost measures would be in place to drive cost down each year, Military Aircraft safety would be improved, and our Generals and Admirals would have the flexibility they need to go to war and not fear a grounding or limited combat capability which having one engine could create.

Mr Gates, lets stop talking about the measely 1.6B left to finish the F136 and lets start focusing on reducing our deficit with the 20B in savings we can get with the alternate engine and competition. The benefits the alternate engine will bring to our Military, National Security, U.S Economy, Technology Advancement and the American Taxpayer are very clear. Mr Gates, hypothetically, would you invest 1M of your own money if you knew in 20–30 years it would grow to 20M and the chances of that occuring was greater than 65%.….….….……as a taxpayer/investor I would say HELL YES!!!!!!!! This country needs the alternate engine for this single engine F35 Acft.

Having one engine is not as big a risk as it’s made out to be…at least according to Graham Warwick at Aviation Week.

The Great Engine Misinformation War http://​www​.aviationweek​.com/​a​w​/​b​l​o​g​s​/​d​e​f​e​n​s​e​/​i​nde…

“The House must act on the wartime supplemental spending bill by the Fourth of July or Defense Secretary Robert Gates will have to start doing ‘stupid’ things. ”

…“START” doing stupid things? That ship has sailed, sir.

AMEN TO THAT!

Density,

As always, you rise to the occasion! Cheers. Colin

Your all wrong! The economy is not so bad. The environment has never been better. Jobs are in abundance.
Everyone has a place to live. There is only perceived corruption. Obama brought CHANGE! He was handed a Masters Degree and Nobel Peace Prize. He is our first Black President and a Hero! Eventhough he has never served in the military, you people need to “Cut him some slack”. Oh, by the way, Has anyone heard anything about ACORN lately?

Just goes to show you how in the pockets of special interest groups all politians are. If this gets held up for a teachers union, then REMEMBER THAT IN NOVEMBER!!!!!!!!

TELL ALL THE INCUMBENTS SEE YA!!! AND VOTE THEM OUT OF OFFICE!!!

WE ARE THE PEOPLE AND WE HAVE THE VOICE AND POWER OF THE BALLOT BOX.

Boomer, couldn’t have said it better myself. I’m getting tired of our Military being threatened everytime big corperations and politicians need to add to their comforts.

Lets cut some of that money that goes to families that have spent years on the welfare system. Palosie (sp) I’m sure wouldn’t mind a pay cut.…and those trips to Copenhagan at Christmas with family and staff on the tax payers dime.

You sent our troops over there, how can you even begin to threaten their safty and needs. How many years have you been overstressing our Military, they deserve a raise not “stupid things”. November can’t come soon enough.

Start doing stupid things that airplane don’t fly and that dog ain’t hunting. I don’t know about everyone else but I can;t spend more than I make, so I have to be very frugal and prioritize where my money goes. Our military and there equipment is or should be number one. Obama needs to bring real change not perceived change an realize the American people are not dumb.

I second that.….motion passes

Bubba,

Didn’t you notice? The ACORN folks where the ones wiping down the grass cleaning up the oil spill. Ain’t change grand?

“Stupid” — Latin: stupidus (“‘struck senseless, amazed’”) < stupere (“‘be amazed or confounded, be struck senseless’”)

All terms we’ve experienced at the hands of Mr. Gates on the F-135/F136 debate, and pretty much all things related to the JSF Program. Could this get anymore bizarre (or stupid)?

Gates is definetly a RINO. How about some real cuts, Either Germany and Italy pay or we bring the Combat Brigades home form Europe. Tell Korea if they want us to stay they start paying –at least as much as Japan –the cost of keeping our troops there –really all thing considered Korea should also pay the salaries of our troops stationed there. The savings from just those two acts woudl be 20 BIllion plus. Oh and one more thing close the Military academies. Why do we need them, many many ROTC and Enlisted folks have rose to 4 star rank. No need or rational reason for the Academies.

“…close the military academies.” ?…My, my, my. Move our troops out of Europe, Japan, Korea? Let me guess…you are trolling and this is bait, right?

why do our service men have to fight in wars and their family has to buy food with food stamps. why don’t the people in wash dc go to the war not to give orders cause we see what happens when they are in charge so they need to go as a grunt. they don’t even need guns they could talk or promice them to death.

Congress doesn’t do anything to stop economic corruption (actually justifies it by bailing out Wall Street). Congress doesn’t do anything to stop illegal immigration (some politicians actually hire illegals). Congress doesn’t do anything to promote alternative energy (some politicians actually made their fortunes in oil). Congress doesn’t do anything to to stop pork barrel spending (too numerous to list, see http://​www​.areddy​.net/​m​s​c​o​t​t​/​p​o​r​k​p​r​i​.​h​tml. All of this happens because Congress is corrupt, greedy, sometimes criminal, and, without fail, lets the absurd happen because there has to be some “kickback” in it for them. It is obvious that Congress doesn’t think about “We the People” anymore. We have ourselves to blame as well, “We the People” still re-elect these harbingers of bad policy. Do not vote for any incumbents that practice “pork barrel” spending, have any type of criminal record, or, vote a straight party-line.

Formula — what propaganda are you trying to spread… “significant progress the F136 has made, the accolades and award fees the F136 Program receives from the JPO (USG) year over year”? Are you kidding? After all of these “award fees”, the F136 has only run for 200 hrs, and has run into nothing but problems after problems… Notwithstanding, the F136 has many years to prove that it can meet the extremely stringent thrust vs thrust-split level 1 flying quality, STOVL control capability that the F135 has already demonstrated in flight. The PW F135 by comparison, has already demonstrated almost 14,000 hrs under engine test, exceeding all thrust, split, with min fuel consumption and unparalleled thrust acceleration characteristics (< 3 seconds from flight idle to max power). All three variants of the F35 have now flown with the F135 and the CTOL initial service release engine has been flying for over a year. Every pilot that has flown the F35 aircraft with the F135 engine have been blown away with its capability.

Finally, the STOVL ISR engines have also already been flight cleared and are completing accelerated life AMT testing… The GE-RR F136 engine would be extremely fortunate to reach this status in the next 3 to 5 years. $3B remaining to develop this engine is totally understated. JPO and Lockheed also both know that continuation of the F136 engine development program will further delay completion of the F35 flight test program. It’s time to stop the facade that “a competition is needed here”. Does a competition exist on the F18 with the GE F110 engine? Does a competition exist in Army applications for the GE T700? No — GE has received contracts for thousands of engines with no competition allowed. But now are to believe that a competition (that was already won by PW over GE years ago) is needed? Let’s stop the pandering and move on. Perhaps the money could be better spent by investing money in further development of a GE variable cycle engine for UCAV applications.

Gates ignoring the JSF Memorandum of Agreement is the first “stupid thing”.

A look at the F-35 JSF website shows that there is an update (Dec 2009) to the memorandum of understanding (MOU) for the Joint Strike Fighter partner nations.

The document is good reading for a number of reasons. Just as interesting is what it has to say about the alternate engine controversy for the F-35.

“6.2.2 The Participants may designate the F135, the F136, or both in their PPRs in such quantities and in accordance with such delivery schedules as they require.”

–So cancel the F-35 alternate engine for any reason you want but understand that this is an international project and the MOU will first have to be changed. Funny how no one in the media ever asks Gates that question. It is the very baseline on this topic before someone can even discuss it.

Other “stupid things”?

Try this.…

” …about $77 million per copy.“
–Robert Gates, U.S. Secretary of Defense, Feb. 2008. (commenting on the F-35)

snort-guffaw

Start to do stupid things !! Since when have they not ! The whole military aspect of government is infested with stupid things, and stupid thinking. Convoluted budgets, entwined, co-mingled funding. Contractors out of control, failed and paid for projects. America wants to know when they are going to begin to do something Smart !

NOVEMBER 2012 If we make it. Gates should be kicked out of office and out of Washington along with EVERY inumbent.Clean out the sewers of the global corperate leach lobbist that infest ALL of Washington. And declare them illegal. This can only be sucessesful with a total flushing of All the these lobbist who have gutted our constituion and bill of rights. Gates is a pawn and a very poor one at that. This engine is attached to the dadt super liberal meddling of the mlitary with this administration to make it even more confusing. Politics in Washington as usual. God help us.

As retired military I can see why the democrat controlled government would go to bat for the liberals in charge of indoctrinating the young in their sick socialist way of thinking. After all the teachers must work 180 days a year for their overpayment while the poor grunt must be in harms way for 365 days a year for their paltry pay. Only in our new islamic republic sponsored by the democrat party

You guys don’t get it yet.

The US as a country is pretty much done for.

We have been sold out, robbed, and gutted

to where there is almost nothing left. This

has been going on since at least Bush I and

probably earlier.

As for the Govt: the rot is too deep.

Democracy only works when there are honorable

people running the show. So far, with the likes

of Pelosi, Reid, Obama, and others .….there

is no honor among thieves. Everyone becomes

a victim.

Nothing will get any BETTER during the remainder of OUR lifetimes, and probably

not during the lifetimes of our kids or

even grandkids. The US is being de-developed

and systemically torn down. Don’t believe it?

Take a look at our manufacturing base and

see what happened to it. Now, banking.…

It is only a matter of time before the US

Defense establishment is affected (and

corrupted) as well.

Give it another year or two and watch the

bottom fall out of the country.…..

DC

Our government needs thinned down immediately starting from the top. O Bama, Pelosi and down the line. If OBama doesn’t give a shit what happens to our coastlines, which is obvious, (not pointing fingers here) I can tell you first hand he doesn’t care about our uniformed personnel. My ex husband worked as a contractor overseas, $300,000. a year, NO TAXES, had his own room with air and someone cleaned it! My now boyfriend, in the Army, 5 tours of duty overseas, 24 years in the Army would tell you first hand, THEY didn’t make that kind of money, most soldiers qualify for poverty PLUS don’t have the resources to protect themselves while they protect us. While our politicians spend billions on ‘solutions’ and bribery. We need new leadership and protection for ourselves. They are all selling our nation away slowly to other countries and giving away more money to the same, that we don’t even have! Agreed, they need to live like we do!!!

Maybe those crack rumors are true.

Why do people that are not in/do not understand the military…get to make decisions for the military. Fire/exile everyone involved in the bureaucratic destruction of our military. **** education, all the kids are stupid anyway (Don’t believe me? Sit in on a high school class), and throwing money at it won’t help.

Hail o the Chief (or is it Savior?)! The seas are receding (as well as the oil, right?), and the earth is healing!

What a crock of crap. Scrap the the President’s NEW Helio; scrap the new engine for the F-35; and scrap all the extra committees that the Congress needs to guide us into more debt. Cut off the money to the Muslim countries and put the money where it belongs–the troops paychecks. They are earning it everyday. The only stupid thing I hear is from Gates own mouth. Stop the BS spending on PORK BARREL items that the Congress is givingaway and support our vets and troops. Also, grt rid of Senator Jim Webb. He hates Vietnam Vets!!!!!!!!!

Ya Know, I read a lot of negative comments about Gates, But for all the negative I dont see anyone offering to help him, let alone any of the people who so Bravely step up to the keyboard and peck their opinions into comment format! How about you put yourself in his shoes and step up to the plate and fight the democrats yourself and see if you dont become a little overwhelmed at the prospect of having to fight nail tooth and claw to do your best to provide for our military?? All the while trying to keep the scales balanced with Obama Pelosi and the likes (continued»)

! Yes I agree Gates has his moments but Ill be the very first to say “Im not qualified for his job!” My 81/2 years active duty and my 15 years federal civil service as a DOD employee for the USAF may have educated me in the blue collar world, but I dont have a clue how he does his job or how he gets through the day with his plate as full as it is dealing with the democratic vacuum!
Im Sure if so many of you are so Inclined you can find his e mail address, why dont you feel free to address him personally and offer your vast knowledge on the many subjects your so well versed in, or is it easier to just criticize from here in the cheap seats?

Listening to all this crying over cutting the F136 reminds me of how Liberals scream bloody murder about making any cuts in Medicare.

Let’s cut he BS. No one who supports the F136 is going to be satisfied with any reason given for cutting the F-136– nothing. The fact that we have a Democratic Administration that is being hypocritical when cutting non-war defense spending (while it ramps up social spending) just gives critics an easy target for derision.

“Things would start to get serious in early to mid August when money in the base budget would begin to run out and the department would face the dire prospect of first having to furlough civilians and then plan for the possibility that it could not pay some of those in uniform“
Now there is a nice threat of a coloured politician. He will put his own agenda first, no matter what.
And Eric Palmer is right about the “junk” project JSF. It is an international program and it is also well known that the other countries want a second engine.
Maybe it’s time to find $ in doomed defence projects. Open your eyes and think out of the box (Hé, Gen. Mattis would come in handy, see topic “Surprise Pick For Commandant”)

I agree too, this is the same thing, only on a much larger scale, that many cities do. They threaten to cut police and fire departments if they don’t get their pet projects or taxes. The government is mandated by the Constitution that they are to defend our country and that is their top priority. These days, it is their last priority or no priority at all.

Sec Gates is clearly in P&W’s back pocket. They probably have a cushy job lined up for him whenever he retires.

Gee, why didn’t I realize that, what was I thinking? Ok, I give, you’re right. BTW, where is all that good weed? I need some too so that I can see the “light”.

I hate to say it, but sadly you are dead on RIGHT. God is our only hope.

Your solutions reflect a crystal clear lack of understanding the complicated processes involved in each and every item you address.

You HAVE to be kidding, Pratt not only doesn’t have that kind of pull, the decision to use Pratt was based on a competition that occured back when Gates was a University President.

Reach down and pull hard, maybe your head will come out of your arse.

That $20B in “savings” is little more than a myth. The additional costs of maintaining two production lines and primes will MORE than eat up any mythological savings. The only way competition works out is if GE’s engine works, and Pratt’s fails to develop. (which doesn’t look likely)

While compeition is usually the way to go, in this case both engines are unproven and in development, you’re essentially arguing if we add twice as many people working on two completely different projects we’ll get a better deal? Doesn’t add up.…

Drake1, great post, great article. Refreshing to read a neutral argument that leaves out the “your mom” antics of DoD buzz…

Acorn? Yeah, apparently they were setup by a douchbag right winger who heavily edited the videos to make it look like people were agreeing to things they weren’t. Turns out he wasn’t wearing a pimp outfit when he was dressed up, and he received 99 “i’ll call the cops” for the 2 “i’ll help you outs.

Turn on the news, he stalked and broke into an office of a congresswoman and is now getting passed around like a joint bhind bars. But you know what Bubba, forget the fact, you’re on the fight. This is ALL his fault. Let’s just leave out the 8 years of mismanagement and deficit spending, the tax credits for shipping jobs overseas, the destruction of Glass/Stegal by your party, what are facts between friends…

ConcernedCitizen the more you comment the more your comments expose your lack of knowledge on this subject. Go back to your PW job, break time is over.

According to this clown all the Baptists, Methodists, Catholics, Jews, and let’s not forget MILITANT SECULARISTS/ATHIESTS are somehow conspiring to swindel us nto a new Islamic Republic?

Gold Shiny Star if you can find:
a) anything true in this statement. (other than 365 days a year, school teachers work 190+)
b) any relevance to the topic (direct, not tangental)
c) this guy’s medication, he REALLY needs it.

you’re completely contradicting yourself. The reason that happens is the republican privitization agenda. The belief that the free market can cure cancer.….….

Conservatives allowed private companies to compete with governemtn agencies, and the result is that they hire ANYONE away with talent, and pay them 100X the government rate for 1/10th the work. Being mad at The President or the nitwit Speaker of the House is like getting angry at your son because you grew up poor. (translation, you’re taking your anger on those around you today, not those who wronged you)

That being said, the last part is absolutely correct, and the problem is ALL politicians today, not just those on the left. The right started the collapse of America, the Left is just getting their turn to trample on what’s left.

hmmmm.…
a) civilians control the military (however inefficiently) because centralized military control would mean the military controls the government.….which would make us 1939 Germany. Sucks when non-vets make DoD decisions, but trust me, you don’t want the Army setting foreign policy.
b) Kids today are morons, kids yesterday are morons, the reason is the same.…..bad parents.

Thanks Doug, well said.

Jobs are in abundance, there is no homeless, and the economy is no so bad. What ozone layer are you living in? I would like to join you. Strange, I do believe the President has some white relatives.

“It is an international program and it is also well known that the other countries want a second engine.
Maybe it’s time to find $ in doomed defence projects.”

Actually, maybe it’s time to start making those other countries, who DO want the second engine option, pony up more of their own money for it, rather than depending on the US to pave their socialist sidewalks with gold before they walk down them.

How much money could we save in the budget if, say, for the next 5 years, we stop footing the bill on Foreign Military Sales, and cut foreign aid packages altogether to nations who give us more grief and difficulty than they do anything at all worthwhile that helps us?

Yeah, I realize we need foreign allies, and we need US products exported from home and imported into those foreign countries to keep America going, but seriously, too many nations still fatten themselves at America’s budget expense, and we get far too little in return.
Bad enough we’re becoming more socialized for our own lazy people. Why are we technically funding the socialized government welfare state of other countries as well?

What is so complicated about upholding the constitution which requires the government to maintain a strong military for the defese of the people (not the world). The constitution mentions nothing about providing social programs, funding for illegals, bailouts, or pork projects or research. Only two reps are required for each state as reps of the people to the governent, not 600, and as reps of the people there should be a ballot to allow the people to vote on the decisions to be mede at the next gongressional meeting so that the peoples wishes are upheld and not the politicians. Dont tell me I dont comprehend what is going on I can clearly comprehend a rouge government.

Actualy he states a lot of truth, as a Penn State grad of 98 who appears to be fairly young and pretty brain washed if you think the Dems in paticular give a hoot about you as an individual. I would say he is pretty much dead on target. Being how he has stood up for his country he has earned the right to speak out in any form he chooses, acept or reject his views but dont mock him for speaking them. No one has ever stated the last admin was perfect on this web site, and stating that the current admin has only made evrything worse and not one single thing better as they promissed is only speaking truth.

You are way off again, need to go back and study history a bit more. Democratic admins brought about most of the troubled programs we have to this date. Dem admins always increase the size of government. Kennedy and Johson started the ball rolling on all this free market stuff. Carter ran us into the ground with cut backs of the military and new social programs. It took Regan and Bush sr. to pull us out of the damage Carter caused. Then 8 years of clinton drove us back down and sqandered the reserves built up from Regans programs, Clinton also downsized the military infrastructure even more which is why we had to have civilian contractor support to fight these wars, there was no choice in the matter period. Bush jr was moving towards building the civilian side of the military complex back up and moving away from contractors, but then the Dems took over again and we are in such a pickle now that we can barely maintain the military we have let alone expand it back into a self sufficient entity of military and civilians. You need to get off the one party band wagon and start looking at the individuals themselves rather than thier party.

The problem with this logic is the cupboard has been picked clean as it is. Obama and Gates signed up to put the DoD budget on track to fight the war without a supplemental, and now the chickens are coming to roost. I keep saying, its deja vu like 1972 all over again. They keep playing chicken with the livelihoods of those who serve in the military and those who serve the military. How are we supposed to feel ? Huh ? It is all expendable when your life, your livelihood and your family are not on the line. Try doing this stuff for 30 or 40 years. Especially the last twenty years…

I agree. I don’t think we should be operating two different engines, because that will cost more in logistics. Maybe have one of the branches use an alternative engine? The advantage of this is if P&W decides to charge more than GE/RR, the military can start the switch over to the cheaper engine. If the GE/RR engine requires more maintenance, they can phase in the other engine. If managed properly, this could be very advantageous to the military.
As for the teachers unions, screw them! What have they done for the American people lately? Lobbying in DC is completely out of control. We need to clean out Washington this November. New faces with no allegiance to some corporation or union. Using the military’s funding as a blackmail tool is a real slimy move. Get them out!

Gotta like how worked up Gates is on F136. He’s worried about spending an additional $2.9B to keep competition in military aircraft engines. But look at HIS F-35 program for his concerns about costs. Gates did nothing but a cover-up job on the F-35 development/acquisition costs increasing from $200B to $382B under his watch and by his tetimonies that everything was wonderful. Why isn’t he worried about buying 308 LRIP F-35s before SDD and OPEVAL are completed? That is potentially $58B of waste. So the price increase of $182B was nothing to be concerned with and neither is $58B of mistake LRIP jets. Interesting.

How can anyone trust what this guy says?

Buying 15 fewer mistake LRIP jets would pay for the alternate engine program costs, reduce the risk on the F-35 program, reduce the risk of grounding the entire F-35 fleet because of an single engine issue, maintain competition for future engine pricing, and maintain the military engine industrial base.

First off, I’m a Veteran as well. (4 years in the Army) Just because I served doesn’t mean I can or cannot speak; that right is in the constitution and is available to all Americans, regardless of service. So if you have a few minutes go educate yourself on the 1st Amendment.

As far as “making everything worse” I guess you have f@$^ing amnesia. The last guy snuck out the back door after having run up almost $7 trillion in debt, an imploding financial system, and two completely mismanaging wars.

The current President (while sometimes flawed) managed to avert a financial collapse, stabilize/widraw troops from Iraq, and put forth a plan to stabilize the deficit spending through various health/defense reforms. Now you may not like what he’s doing, you might not like how he’s doing it, but arguing he’s somehow turning us into an Islamic Republic lacks credibility.

Just as motorists have to take an aptitude test to drive, so should voters in order to vote. We wouldn’t be having this conversaton of teacher unions being funded by defense appropriation bills…ignorant citizens vote for ignorant representation. WAIT! I remember taking a citizenship class in high school in the 70’s and being excited to register to vote afterwards. Maybe this is why we are discussing the issue today…teacher unions have dumbed down our future electorate.…aided by the left-leaning mainstream media.

Boomer is right about the Congress should try to get by on our daily alotment for travel and cut back on their staff too. On top of that, let them do their own air fare and rental car scheduling (that’s a jewel of system YIKES!) Most of them already had more money when they started than the rest of the DoD Feds can ever hope for. No one is bailing any of us out, we have to keep our credit ratings up for our clearances. We can’t afford to miss a step along the way. The day they don’t give the DoD a paycheck or two and our credit ratings begin to tank, they’ll fire us and hire all new interns to run the governement.

Is it November yet?

Who thinks voting the same incumbent political weasels back in to power is a good idea?

Anyone?

{crickets chirping}

maybe facts can adjust your thinking, then. Deficit spending started way before W. Bush. Clinton’s Republican Congress probably had something to do with the buget surpluses of those years. All the savings & benefits from cutting defense during Clinton Years were wiped out from the economic loss of 9/11 anyway. Also you are disingenuous to attribute Glass Steagal to solely Republicans. Clinton signed it into law, and the bill had overwhelming bipartisan support. Will you agree that the greatest threat to the Nation’s fiscal health is Entitlement spending??? And what political philosophy promises to fund people’s retirement and health care bills forever and ever? Liberal/Democrat or Conservative/Republican???

First off thak you for your service — second I never said you didnt have a right to speak out I just said dont belittle those that served who speak thier minds. I am well aware of the 1st and dont always agree with it though — most of the time it is used to either protest against those fighting for it to exist by those who refuse to fight for it, or it is being used by illegals and such who dont have a right to rights of citizens of this country to be protected by it. Bush didnt create the deficate on his own, He inherited a big chunk of it from the clintons and then the wars ate away at the rest, most of the time under a demo majority. Nothing is currently stabalized or better in any way — niether party is inocent — and a wake up call is needed, especialy by those who cling to single party lines of hope.

Yup — most of these folks dont realize there is a difference from regular government employees and exec /legislative branch fed employees, we dont get free health care and benefits the way they all think from what is put out in the news, We get fired if we get behind on payments or dont file tax returns unilke the swept under the carpet treatment they get, We also dont get to work for two years and then draw a check for the rest of our lives and free benefits the way exec/leg branch does because they are not in the FERS like us. And expense accounts, I’m 6’4″ 280lbs and fly coach or pay out of pocket and have to rent compact cars or pay out of pocket. and as you mentioned above I have to pay off my govt travel card out of pocket most of the time and wait to get reimbursed from the govt when they get around to it. The capital bunch has a lot of room to cut back and move into the real world. Plus if they have to actualy mingle in with thier constituants they will be less likely to forego them without worry of getting thier 6 kicked without govt provided security backing them up. What a system we live in today.

Actually Jeff our constitution put civilians in charge of the Military. Agree completely agree with todays education. No real history is taught, only propoganda is put out. The dumbing down has been going on for years. They use pills now to control our kids. Don’t believe me? Go into any school in the US at lunch time and look to see how long the line is to the office for kids to get their meds.

Yes! Excellent link; seems like keeping the hotter engine and dumping the heavier model may have to take place. With parts wearing out sooner on a hotter engine, it will undoubtedly cost more over lifetime; but with a heavier engine, a total aircraft redesign would take place — costing unknown billions!

Excellent post Doug; and very true!

HA! HA! I like my congressman, and I’m still voting him out, if anyone goes up against him!

I don’t now if we have a half full cupboard or half empty, that’s debatable.
But I think that Gates should use the feelings of the man and woman in the military to try and get votes. It should not be ANY question whether or not the military get paid.

Though I’m not in the military. I’ve seen what it does, and takes to be in it. My nephew served in Bosnia. The son of my neighbours served in Afghanistan (commando force) and when he came back he was mentally broken. He did some very strange things (also a suicide attempt). He is fine now, but it took some time.

That’s why Mark Twain once remarked that “Congress is the only professional criminal class in America.”

Boomer, i like you as a poster, but I think on this we may have to agree to disagree. For clarification, I’m no supporter of the Dems. They’re as ideologically incoherent as the Republicans today; the only thing consistent about either party is the way they promise reform only to rent themselves out to anyone with a suitcase full of dollars. My point in responding isn’t to say it’s the other guy’s fault, it’s to point out that all of these problems are the result of both sides’ mismanagement.

The Dems DID cutback too far from the governmental sector, forcing us to begin relying on outside/private agencies; but the conservatives also have begun discrediting/dismantling functional DoD and civilian departments and undermining them with “consultants” under the false religion of privitazation. The result has been an increase in ineffective/competent government, decrease in accountability, all while increasing the costs 300%.

While there are some instances when private contractors and outside defense contractors are/can be effective, there are many instances when they just create competing interests/agendas. The solution is figuring out what the government MUST do itself, what can be subbed/competed, and HOW to keep that construct accountable/effective.

Agree 100% with pennst98 (and BOOMER) last postings. We need to stop the politicization (?) of the issues (Dems verus Repubs) and figure out how to fix them because our duly elected representatives don’t really represent us anymore. They take money from businesses (let’s ban that for a start), which corrupts their decisions and loyalties.

So, can we stick to facts, so we can talk issues?

I’m sorry, but this is not the way it works. Most contracting in the defense sector consists of selling services, not products. The way contractors survive in a competitive and often hostile workplace is by worker harder and becoming more efficient, by doing the work the government either does not have the capability of doing, or does not want to do. They have a real interest in making their customers happy and doing what they both want (which keeps you employed) and what the contract says (which keeps you out of jail). The real problem are the Catbert government personnel that take forever to hire people and even longer to get rid of them. It also doesn’t help that many government jobs are unionized now. Many contractors would be quite happy to take a position with the government — many of them used to be in government — if you put in the right incentives, including good pay and promotion opportunities — and more importantly, actively recruited people who are smart, innovative and ambitious. But too many government agencies recruit and access ONLY entry level employees. They won’t even touch mid-career professionals unless they have veteran’s preference.

Well the Pres. promised change and for all of you that voted for him you are getting what you wanted. May be we need to put the teachers in the war zone then the raise would be more in line.

I’ve belonged to three unions; all of them shot the entire plant down, with their greedy ignorance. I’ve worked for companies that treated people like animals. If these idiots would just treat us like people, I think a right-to-work law would be passed in every state.

Unions need to wake up and smell the coffee and so do the members; they are all working to destroy all our lives. If companies were really treating us so badly, I wouldn’t be saying this. In my career; I’ve changed totally five times. This is a chaotic environment, and I must say I like it that way. The employers are just as confused as the workers, and most are trying to keep their heads above the water line.

If we don’t all wake up; we will all be drowning!

In the old testament, Jewish solders were to participate in a spiritual cleansing for seven days after battle. Looks like we could use a little Bible study, if you ask me. Maybe my Dad, cousins, and half my buddies wouldn’t have PTS by now.

I thought acting stupidly :-) is a trademark of Obama/Gates tandem in military issues. How about shutting down F-22 line for no good reason, how about the HUGE COVER-UP OF F-35 FIASCO (price doubled in two years, and everybody involved is OK), resisting Super Horent multi-year buy until Congress had to step in, how about Littoral Combat Ship nonsense, cuting down BMD budget in 2009 and paniciking about hundreds of Iranian missiles that may hit Europe just a year later — Gates is bigger genius than Robert McNamara and Rumsfeld combined, and I didn´t believe until recently that may be possible…sir honorary secretary, please make everybody a favor, resign and go for something else — how about permanent job in Afghanistan?

Totally agree with Boomer’s remarks. I believe that Gates is the worse Secretary of defense in my life time( served U.S. Army 1967–1990 retiring as CWO) and I’ve seen the bungling jobs these PC progressive slobs have done to my Army from the inside and outside. It’s time to put a halt to there political corruption and vote their mentors out. Donald R. Hohman CWO USA (Ret) POW.

You guys need to quit bashing unions. There are many veterans who are very supportive of unions and ow they fight for the working class. If we did away with unions this country would be totally in control of the corporations that keep outsourcing our jobs and driving wages down to third-world levels. If you want to live in Columbia or Mexico, head on down there when you get out of the military, don’t bring that lifestyle and wage structure here. As far as budgets are concerned I am amazed that the military is running out of money as the last budget having a grand total of $802 Billion is the largest ever– figures to $8 trillion over 10 years.

Unions from the start were mostly controlled by organized crime, while some tried to go legit they are for the most part nothing more than pyramid schemes that have cuased more busineeses to shut down or move out of the country than they have helped. If the government did its job (of ensuring that the citizens of this country are not injustly treated) in the first place there would be no need for unions to start with. They should have insured the cost of living was the same throughout the US and not by locality as it is. The defense budget seems big but once they subsidise it out to UN, NATO, constituant contractors and now teachers and other unions not a whole lot makes it to the actual branches of the military. I agree with shuting down all the overseas bases we pay for and rent land for, let that money and the troops spending go into our economy instead of overseas.

Politics should not be allowed to interfer with a program that has been committed to, especially when it comes to defense; most Presidents aren’t in for a period start to implementation, but Generals (military)and their personnel are to exceed 20–30 years and in many cases they R&D guy’s are cradle to grave on projects. I see the Aussies aren’t fans of the F35, cost has to play into their comments; its either price or their hold all the spare parts for the Herriers Jump Jets and don’t need anymore paper weights.

I’ve seen unions run three companies into the ground in my five careers. So you probably know what I think of that. However; the first one deserved to be run into the ground. They treated us like dog s**t and they deserved every punch they got from us.

If these companies would just treat their help as good as their pets at home; maybe everyone would quit organizing. In my home state we had a right to work law, and the state was our union. They did about ten times more good than a regular union; so I say that is one of the few things government could get right if they would just try. This was strictly a state dept. of Labor, so states powers are good too, as far as I can see.

Why is it a supplemental appropriation? Service member pay was included in the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2010, look it up. Why is there a need for multiple appropriations? Anyone have a decent explanation for that? Has military compensation always been funded through supplemental appropriations? Am I missing something? Is there a reason to appropriate pay twice?

I imagine if the per copy cost is held to $77M, we will think that a bargain, however; I am not confident it will be so.

Bush’s flawed actions (on many fronts) directly contributed to the mess our nation is trying to deal with today. Bush’s decision to fight the Iraq and then Afghan war “off the books”, that is, not as something budgeted for and visible in the annual defense budget, sorely hurt our nation.

Contrary to the emtion clouding many men and women’s otherwise good judgment, we are NOT fighting in Iraq or in Afghanistan to protect our way of life. There is nothing about Iraq or Afghanistan worth the life of a single American. We are there to IMPOSE democracy on a 14th century tribal region that cannot support it.

Iraq or Afghanistan…take your pick…they’re lost causes. Not worth an American’s life.

Amen.. Nation building does not work.… We should reduce commitments to Iraq and Afghanistan, and focus on strategically deterring conflict, managing risks to homeland security, and building & increasing global counter terrorism capabilities & operations.

Iraq is not a lost cause, it is possible to get a strong new Iraqi Army to take over. Afghanistan however… a bunch of farmers who will keep killing each other for all eternity.

Didn’t Gates start doing those a few years ago? How will we be able to tell the new stupid things?

Can you be a little more specific and tell us what those “problems after problems” actually are??? It appears Sec. Gates can’t tell us. Can you enlighten us and tell us what the government studies are missing?

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