Levin Doubts F136 Veto Threat

Levin Doubts F136 Veto Threat

UPDATED: With SASC Rebuttal of Gates’ F136 Competition Claim

“I don’t see any problems with his nomination at all.” That’s the money line from Sen. Carl Levin about tomorrow’s hearing of his Senate Armed Services Committee to confirm the appointment of Gen. David Petraeus to lead allied force in Afghanistan.

Levin, speaking at a Defense Writers Group breakfast this morning, said he would continue to press his belief during the hearing that there are far too few Afghan troops in Kandahar. He handed out a chart showing end strength figures for March-May and an October estimate. ISAF troops around Kandahar number 6,900 now, compared to 5,300 for Afghan army and police. By October the Afghan force is estimated to increase to 8,500 while ISAF forces will hit 11,850.“That is totally unacceptable to me in terms of the mission,” Levin said. Kandahar is the locus of the fight and Afghan forces should be present in larger numbers. He noted that Afghan Army total end strength is currently 119,000 and should hit 134,000 come October, with combat troop numbers rising from 70,000 to 80,000 but Afghan forces around Kandahar will still be outnumbered by ISAF forces.

Levin argued that the 2011 date for the beginning of withdrawal of U.S. forces from Afghanistan was intact. And he said Lt. Gen. William Caldwell, who leads training efforts for Afghan Army and security forces, had told him that the 2011 date has helped increase Afghan Army recruitment, which are up.


In other news, the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee said he “can’t imagine” President Obama would veto the defense policy bill over the F136 engine. He strongly rebutted Defense Secretary Robert Gates’ recent claim that the F136 had been competed and the winner — Pratt & Whitney — won. “By the way, there’s never been a competition on that engine,” Levin said. “Did he [Gates] say there has been competition? Then he’s wrong.”

Brushing aside persistent rumors that the defense authorization bill won’t make it past the post this year, Levin told me he was confident the defense policy bill will pass this year, notwithstanding filibuster threats from Republicans over the repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell and other, less comprehensible, issues. Levin did make clear scheduling the bill’s passage is an issue, especially with the death of Sen. Robert Byrd. “We’ve got to pay tribute to his life,” the senator said, acknowledging that will slow the Senate’s ability to pass bills for the next week.

Finally, in a graceful coda, Levin said he thought Gen. Stan McChrystal would be “fine. He’ll land on his feet.” He cast McChrystal’s demise as Afghan commander as one of those unexpected trials we all face in life, though he conceded that the general’s undoing was certainly more public than most.

Following is the Senate Armed Service Committee’s official answer to the question: was there an engine competition between Pratt & Whitney’s F135 and the GE/Rolls Royce F136.

Compiled by the Majority Staff of the Senate Armed Services Committee

“Has there been a competition between the Pratt & Whitney F135 and the GE/Roll Royce F136?

No. There has never been an engine competition for the Joint Strike Fighter.

· In 1996, DOD awarded competitive contracts to the airframe competitors for the JSF program, Boeing and Lockheed Martin for the Concept Development phase of the JSF program.

· Both contractors selected a variant of the Pratt &Whitney F119 engine (the F-22 engine) as their propulsion system.

· DOD picked a single contractor (Lockheed Martin) for the JSF Engineering and Manufacturing Development (EMD) phase in 2001.

· Lockheed Martin maintained their selection of the P&W engine when they were awarded the EMD/Systems Development and Demonstration (SDD) contract in 2001.

· John Roth, and official in the DOD Comptroller’s office, acknowledged that no competition was ever held in testimony before the House Oversight and Government Reform, Subcommittee on National Security and Foreign Affairs hearing on May 19, 2010.

· When the JSF was first conceived, it was assumed the F-22 engine (produced by P&W) would be used in the JSF.

· Citing commonality with the F-22, DoD directed the competing air vehicle contractors to use the Pratt & Whitney engine as the engine for the Concept Demonstration Contract.

· It later became clear the F-22 engine (F119) would not meet requirements for the JSF, but no competition was ever held to meet the JSF requirement.

· The Government paid Pratt & Whitney to develop a derivative of the F119 engine to meet the JSF requirement.

· That new Pratt & Whitney engine, called the F135, is now the primary JSF engine.”

Join the Conversation

Levin has made wrong-headed claims about Iraqi and Afghan troops numbers in the past. He is one of those who believe you can just throw guys in uniform and call it a win. All those troops he thinks the Afghans need still have to be recruited, trained, led, and paid and Levin never takes that into account. And how on earth would he know how many troops are needed to fight in one particular city? Linked below are previous dodbuzz articles about his thoughts on the subject.
http://​www​.dodbuzz​.com/​2​0​0​9​/​0​9​/​1​4​/​m​o​r​e​-​a​f​g​h​a​n​-​not…
http://​www​.dodbuzz​.com/​2​0​0​9​/​1​0​/​2​9​/​d​e​m​s​-​w​a​r​n​-​a​g​ain…

Regarding competition for the engine, it can correctly be said, under s sole source, winner-take-all competition, that the basic aircraft airframe competition included the engine selection. However, the Pentagon decided it needed an alternative (just in case) and initiated a second engine technology. In the 1980’s the Pentagon often “broke out” the main subcomponents, like engines, and competed them separately to achieve savings, providing the item as government-furnished-equipment to the prime contractor. That component break-out strategy typically saved bug bucks for the taxpayer. Nothing has changed since then about the validity of the break-out strategy, especially given that the JSF will have a 20+ year procurement. Under such a scenario, the government will more than profit for competition.

As ELP will continuously remind us, the treaty/contract for the F-35 going to our allies includes language giving them the option of either engine.

One study said that over $20 Billion would be saved over the life the JSF program by using competing engines. Having more than one manufacturer not only helps in price competition but adds to reliabilty and performance, which is the most important aspect of this since all branches of the military will be using this engine for the next 25–30 years. Whatever Gates and Obama are thinking makes absolutely no sense in the long term.

For an engine (F135) that is a variant of an earlier P&W engine; how in the heck is it so far over budget and so far behind schedule. Play all the games you want but let’s stick to the facts. Competition did not exist. P&W over budget each year, GE meets budget and deliverables despite the reduced budgets each year.

All I can say is you all are correct in regards to the alternate engine. Lets move on with competition and at least try and salvage some return for the tax payer. This is a perfect opportuinity for Mr Obama to use the potential 20B in savings to reduce the Trillions dollar deficit issue. In fact, 1B can be saved in the next five years…what a perfect jump start. Additionally, for national security reasons, having an alternate engine is the prudent thing to do.

If the F-135’s supplier P & W is having issues with price and delivery just do what is done in the corporate world ‚you honor the contract but let the supplier know that he will be replaced and not considered for future business opportunities. P & W has done whats done all the time in military procurement . Originally submit a price that they know will get the business then let the consumer pay when they have no alternative. Either make P & W honor the original price or buy the design and give it to GE or RR to produce at the correct price.

Then let those allies pay for the additional development costs. If the current engine isn’t cutting it then replace it. We need to get this plane right because it replaces 65% of the Air Forces planes and 40% of the Navy’s planes. See my comments below.

“GE meets budget and deliverables despite the reduced budgets each year” — Really? GE’s plan last year was to run 4 engines for a total of 50 hours? Interesting strategy, huh?

I don’t recall DoD having a competition for the F-18 E/F engine, that was a derivative of the engine in the F-18 A/B and C/D variants. Probably not at all unlike the F119-to-F135. I guess “competition” is only a good thing when GE is on the wrong end of the program. Seems GE lobbyist have more cash to spread around.

Gee,When will people see Kissinger — GE as the head of the WTO. Recently GE invested billions in China to make airplanes or was that jet engines, or both. GE is a global business that uses America for their own benefit. That is what the WTO does. Our president,and it doesn’t matter who or what party, is the WTO puppet. That is why our economy has gone down the drain. We can not work for the same wages that GE is paying it’s overseas workers. They set them up with the business and have our Senators approval and wring the middle class right out of existence. The only thing I wander about is how much do they pay the politician. We do not have a country for the people and by the people. That is why we do not have a country anymore. Go to Walmart and buy something that says,“Made in America”.

I can’t remember I think we encourage competition with the Brits, but looks like we’re all on board the same now, going to remember Pratt and Whitney, all those Bell conversations with dad growing up.

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