‘Culture of Savings and Restraint’

‘Culture of Savings and Restraint’

Defense Secretary Robert Gates has swung the axe once more, this time aiming for the enormous personnel costs that have swelled since Sept. 11, 2001, eliminating Joint Forces Command, freezing the numbers of senior military and civilian positions, cutting contractor numbers and aiming to control the costs resulting from congressional and OSD reports.

Gates’ goal, put simply, is to inculcate a “culture of savings and restraint” and forestall any efforts to strip the overall defense budget in these hard economic times.

Stripping the defense budget, which he noted has happened four times before, “would be disastrous” in these times when the world is more unstable. That possibility, he said “is my greatest fear…”


On top of eliminating JFCom and the Networks Information and Integration office, he will freeze the number of senior civilian and military officers at OSD at last year’s levels. He also plans to cut “at least” 50 officer positions and 150 senior civilian positions from OSD. He will even cut into the military side of the intelligence community. He will cut 10 percent of the intelligence contractors and froze senior positions. And he said Jim Clapper, his counterpart overseeing the intelligence community, is looking to take similar actions in his shops.

The JFCom cuts are likely to yield the greatest direct savings since the command includes some 2,800 military and civilian positions, bolstered by 3,000 contractors, for an annual budget of $240 million.

Initial congressional reaction may surprise some, with the Republican’s top man on the House Armed Services Committee cautioning that Gates must first “convince members of this committee that these efforts will not weaken our nation’s defense.” Rep. Buck McKeon said in a statement that Democrats were harvesting savings “for new domestic spending and entitlement programs. This is already happening.  In the House this week, Congressional Democrats—with the full support of the White House—are taking critical defense funding to pay for another state bailout.  What’s to stop them from taking this money too?” he asked.

On the other side, Rep. Ike Skelton, chairman of the HASC, praised Gates, saying he supports “any responsible shift of funds from overhead costs in order to strengthen the efforts of our brave troops.”

Keenly aware of how congressional opposition could sink his effort to shutter JFCom and eliminate other jobs, Gates argued these moves might well allow him to add one or two billion dollars to shipbuilding so Virginia “could end up gaining a lot more jobs than it loses.”

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Leave It to Barry. Gut the military while Marie Antoinette obama does the royal tour of Spain on a 5 star budget.

Where are cuts to Fannie, freddie, HUD, NEA, transportation, etc?

The only way to get the Maine twins in line is favorable mid-term outcomes for the Republican senatorial candidates.

BTW, kudos to Sec. Gates here. This is only the low hanging fruit, but he at least has the intestinal fortitude to take on the powerful VA congressional delegation.

Folks

Watched Gates on C Span. Most uncomfortable. One sensed the OBNA Czar led team looking over his shoulder.

Opine

Reductions as noted, DOD appears to be leading the Civil Service Efficiency Charge. OBNA needs to insure his Legacy, and by “promoting efficeincy” he opens the door for more appointees of his Leftist persusasion.

CS folks stay, while the Admins and Congress leaves.

end

Semper Fi

We WILL Prevail

It is all a sham. Indeed the military needs some logical thinning but what they are doing here is looking for fast cash to pour into more soscial programs, the military that is being cut will not benefit from any savings in any way and Gates is a gutless worm for not point it out publicly. A number of 30 + year 06’s and above need to be sent on thier way along with a number of 30 + E7’s and above. There are a number of overseas bases that need to be closed permanent (All non continental US NAVAL and Marine Corps bases to include Guam and Puerto Rico and Diego Garcia, along with a majority of Army and Airforce Bases as well. All base ops contractors need to be sent packing because they dont sufficiently maintain the facilities in proper condition.

Virginia politicans need to focus on building state infrastructure projects, i.e., bridges, roads, telecoms, so that the velocity of money is used in the local econmy. Spending money on needless power point slides and contractor analysis reports that are never used is not the way to keep jobs in Virigina. Hurray for SecDef Gates!! Cut the waste. Ronald Reagan became a conservative when he saw govt civilians sitting around at the Army bases he was assigned to. Well guess what… Ronald saw a few sitting around in his day but if he saw what was going on today with tens of thousands of civilians (both govt and contractor) he would be appalled. Wake up fellow conservatives and see the true picture!! End socialism in the U.S. Military.

As I pointed out elsewhere, the only place for JFCOM roles and functions to go is back into Beltway organizations, or service organizations in the Hampton Roads area. I was stationed at TRADOC back before JFCOM, back when the Joint Warfighting Center was just a farmer’s field. This problem is really deep. JFCOM is the center for DIME/PMESII within DoD, so that pickup stick just got pulled out of the stack. Armed Forces Staff College stays the same nothingburger place it has always been, no upside there. Maybe the war colleges can take on some work — that might work out, but none of those places can spell high tech. Maybe there’s some room in the basement of the Pentagon and Crystal City might have some space available if 10% of the contractors go away. Given that we’re just starting to see the effects of the big BRAC which is going to shake up the instititional side of the Army, what I think will happen is a lot of structural unemployment, turbulence, and square pegs getting stuck into round holes. My condolences to Stu Whitehead, who is one of the good guys out there.

You’re wrong here Boomer. All these “cuts” are from overhead to procurement. Too much of the Defense community’s money is lost in all the inter-agency nonsense.

As to your point about senior 06’s.….good news, they’re next on his plate. Gates has made several speeches about thinning the herd.

AMEN. How many times when you were in the service did you have to argue with an overpaid contractor to get him to do what he was paid, or fill out nonsense “do-work” paperwork to justify some civilian’s pay.

Buddy, you try living somewhere on a retired lieutenant colonel’s half pay and your house underwater — much less a captain or major who didn’t make his promotion cut and had to go work for a living. That’s what Gates is doing to hundreds if not thousands of people working at JFCOM. While the big bleed out happened back in the Nineties, most of the people who came out when the military was downsized are still of working age. The Hampton Roads Civilian Personnel Office is infamous for not opening positions to external hire, so only those with civil service status get a safety net. This will not end well. Already depressed property values go down or stay down. People go on unemployment and don’t get work. Houses go into foreclosure. Does this administration care ? Apparently not.

The cut is not enough,he should give the military only $200 b/year and let them fight each othe for the fund.If they think they are not armed enough and safe in the military,they should quit and we ‚the taxpayers, will appreciate for that.

This is what we’ve come to — “inter-agency nonsense”. Just like Effects Based Operations — smart power investments get cut first. What a sham for a Democrat adminstration. I feel like we’re channeling Charles Lindburgh here. Pretty soon, we’ll be rebuilding the coastal batteries out on Old Point Comfort. Good construction jobs, ya know.

It’s really up in the air if I’m wrong, but have they not been raiding the defense budget already this year to give to social programs — teachers unions — and state bailouts? the answer to that is yes and the more money the military saves the more gongress will take from them. It has been this way for ever — every branch scrimps all year long afraid to spend money then come august they go on a spending spree to use up all thier savings, otherwise it will be deducted from them next year and forget about asking for an increase. Joint forces command grew too big like a lot of government organizations, but shutting down Marine corps bases and major cuts at stateside bases instead of closing down uneccessary overseas bases is more ridiculous than continuing to give military aid (money) to forieng governments. We pay billions a year to lease property from governments for overseas bases, if they are truly our allies and want us there then why are they charging us to be there.

Good Morning Folks,

This all just a sham. There is no reduction in the DoD base budget because if this, this is just a zero sum action on Sec. Gates part. Sec. Gate has already told the 50 Flag officers that will close down this command, they will be reassigned to “…something better.” The 150 “high pay grade” civilians will be reassigned to other agencies, most likely DHS. The “contractors” don’t cry for them either, these cockroaches will be around forever. The ones screwed of course are the time clock punchers, of which their are about 5K involves.

Where will the saving go from these the 5k lost jobs, well of course back into the DoD base budget to buy more gold plated toys that are not needed. Useless programs financed off the backs of those who can least afford it.

Federal workers, who work hard get pink slips, managers at Lockheed martin get a $650 million performance bonus, for the F-35 program.

As for the command it was declared redundant years ago and became nothing more the a safe harbor for stars in between assignments. Almost any military command with the word “joint” in it could be closed down and nothing would be lost.

Really this is nothing more then Bull Sh** on Sec. Gates part to get more coins for the defense industry. This really sucks.

ALLONS,

Byron Skinner

Ok…where to begin. How is cutting $240 mil per year a sham? What bases in Puerto Rico? Do you know the strategic importance of Guam and Diego Garcia? How many 30+ year O-6s and E-7s can their possibly be? This comment lacks basic military literacy.

Let’s see…so this will save $240 million annually to the government treasury, of which half will be used to cover the unemployment benefits for all the former contractors.…not to mention that they can collect unemployment up for one hundered and twenty weeks. The other savings will be used to cover the security for Michelle Obama’s activities throughout the world.…..good grief

haha I always wonder what people like you are doing on a defense blog. Just trolling?

Rosevelt Roads is a naval base in rico, Guam was shut down and only had a skeleton crew for years and we had no issues operating without it before the Navy brass decided to reopen it, Diego garcia is a hold over from way back when and has no real value or use. I served with many senor enlisted who were over 25 and pushing for 30 as were a lot of officers going for over 30, and a lot of them were also limdu for health reasons (the enlisted, warrants, and LDo’s) skating under the radar. I agree fully as I said that cuts need to be made, but saying it is in order to to use it to fund other parts of the DoD when it is most likely not to is nothing more than double talk and a sham. When I see an actual report where they gave a $240 mil check to the Navy — AF — Army rhen I might believe them. But if they keep taking DoD funds for non DoD programs then it is just more political BS.

If we cut enough, we will finally lose what fine young warriors we have. No one will continue to serve this country without having an attractive benefit package. You can scream all day long about matching up with the civilian sector, but the civilian sector is not shot at every day. Barrons on wall street get away with zillions of dollars that are never paid back. Americas Soldiers will all have to be contract labor if they keep eliminating their rightful benefits. I doubt any wall street suit and tie barron could ever settle for camies and rations, and certainly not ready to die for their country, so why cut the military. Just go after the ones who raped this country financially in the first place.

Just think, we just passed 26 billion for a teachers union bailout. Maybe we should also shudder Northcom and Southcom.…

Barrons on wall street are behind the administrations and running this country for the last 6 decades.Don’t you know?

And.… I bet next yer gonna tell me they’re not really gonna “Share the Wealth”… Lol..
I guess like so many other Americans, I was told how many millions of dollars were “paid” to the Barrons and none of it was required to be paid back… And now we’re told we need to cut Military Spending… I just get frustrated… I have always supported a great retirement package for soldiers. I still think it is a small reward for the price that so many have to pay to get there, as compared to the civilian executive…

When I joined the Air Force in 1967, I was told I would receive Medical and Dental when I retired. This did not happen.

If real cost were submitted we would not have $600 dollar hammars and screwdrivers.This is another scam just like the health care deal.Premiums have gone out of sight before the plan has even started​.To me it’s scary to even think about shutting any thing down.This will only enhance the republican party.

You’re right about them Bayonet1,that bunch has never been worth a crap!!!

Geeee. Another “peace dividend” that winds up getting spread around entitlement programs designed to build a Democratic voter base, instead of doing things that really are good for America from the big picture standpoint. The ‘Crats did it after WWII, Korea and Vietnam. We wound up with greatly diminished capacity to protect our national security interests. No surpise here — Dem’s are essentially out for themselves, not for America.

Snowe & Collins have been more democrat than republican for friggin ever. The senate rules don’t permit the degree of leader control as in the house. You can usually count on those 2 to do the wrong thing, regardless of issue.

Diego & Garcia are strategic air bases for forward B-2 operations. Why close these and make the 509th fly out of Whiteman AFB when they are needed?

Quite honestly I believe that he should axe our expenditures in making manpower, materiel and money contributions to the Allied Command Transformation organization in Norfolk, Virginia. It is truly producing absolutely nothing of any value. In fact the USA has been paying 90% of NATOs budget since it was founded, when in truth most of the NATO militaries couldn’t fight their way out of a barn if the door was open. They spend most of their time writing endless, meaningless, doctrine, and conducting endless meaningless experiments that have no value except keeping retirees in shape to double dip. It is all wasteful and senseless.

Mr Gates needs to go deeper, Why do the Commander need a civil MSE GS 15. I believe this position that they have created as the deputy commander of a major command is a waste of money. What happened to the CG that has his own command controling his post.

The Fedea Gov’t has the fiscal acuity of a five year old. No doubt, the Barrackanoid will give away much of what Gates saves to illegal aliens a muslim mosques. However, there is also so much dead wood at the top, that getting rid of it will free up us underlings to do our job instead of tap dancing around prima donna yo-yos. Having to make do, will make us do better, rather than just contract ever problemed project out, and it’ll keep us from buying into more war toys that are already too expensive, for what they are worth. Another target should definitely be the Environmental idiots at G-4-they’ve done nothing but substitute foul chemicals that don’t work for those that do, with no environmental benefit-and I’m a chemist.

Maybe you should go live in China

Hell yes. Why should they cut military money, when they can take it from the idiots/banks that flaunted American money in the first place?? Giving money to social programs will result in the end of America — watch and see. All of the social programs the government has created are a flop. It’s a quick fix to a big problem, and we’ll all see the results in a decade or so, when America is failing miserably. So while we’re on this downhill slop, why don’t we just go ahead and cut military funding, so when the economy completely fails in however many years, our military is half of what it should be — so we leave ourselves open for attack. Every one of you stupid people that is for huge military cuts doesn’t know your butt from a hole in the ground. Why don’t you take a few weeks off from your comfortable civilian job, and drive out to a military base and live/work there for a few weeks. You might not be so high on your horse, or so stupid. Our military lets you be who you are, free of charge. Why don’t you let them keep the money they need, instead of insisting it go to useless social programs? Lemme guess — you believe in CHANGE and HOPE, right?

We need to cut more officers!!!!!!! The Enlisted ranks have been cut enouph. The whold military pay system needs a overhall most senior enlited can do the same job a an officer and have the same eduction. Smart companies take bold steps.

And you’re obviously enlisted.… you can’t even write coherently. Maybe we should cut enlisted soldiers that can’t read or write, like the ones I’ve met. They seem to be the biggest waste of space, time, and money to me.

The cuts they are alleging that will save them money are a non issue. Where is the savings when the cuts only add to the unemployment rolls and welfare system. Isn’t that a issue we are supposed to be doing something about? The issue of “Insourcing” has terminated so many civilian jobs and replaced contracted Security Police, Firefighter and Maintenance personnel. These so called responsible replacements that are coming, are from job fields so far unrelated, unexperienced and are practically virgins to the positions they are to do. It’s like asking Kindegarten classes to teach algebra. Perhaps I sound bitter, but to ask a ranger platoon to guard a wallmart is in league with some of these decisions. This does so really need to be revisited and evaluated on an installation case by case basis. Sombody wake up rather than fire hundreds to hire DoD civiliains to do less for less.

Being an Officer, I suspect, It’s probably an enlisted man that did the leg work. you took credit for. Or, you didn’t listen to him when he told you something wasn’t right and you got burned for it.

Really bad idea in my opinion. The issue of 5,000 unemployed is bad enough. It needs to be considered where the Join Forces Command came from. The creation of the JFC was a hard learned lesson over many years and many conflicts. It brought all the branch’s together, and reduced the infighting tremendously. If your going to make big cuts, do it somewhere else not to the Military when they are heavily engaged on two fronts. There are a ton of programs that can be completely dumped from the bureaucracy.

I’m a civilian that knows officers and enlisted. Officers do plenty of work and are responsible for everything. Everyone likes to think that officers get credit for everything their NCOs do FOR them. That’s such crap. How about those officers that have horrible/stupid NCOs?? They get to do both jobs, their own and the NCOs! There are stupid people in every profession, in every rank. However, seeing as how you can have a GED and join as enlisted, yet you need a college degree to join as an officer, I’m willing to bet lots and lots of money that I’d find an enlisted soldier that can’t read or write much sooner than I’d find an officer in the same boat. But thanks for your good guess!

“Buddy, you try living somewhere on a retired lieutenant colonel’s half pay” “had to go work for a living”

Whats with the “golly gee poor old retired officers”. If I was a retired 2nd Lt I would be rolling in it compared to what I get. So don’t tell us enlisted about the plight of poor old high ranking officers, It makes you sound like an out of touch elitist a**hole. Over all as a retired enlisted person I find these comments insensitive to the point of offending.

Aurora August 9th, 2010 at 6:05 pm

“The only way to get the Maine twins in line is favorable mid-term outcomes for the Republican senatorial candidates.”

Well, I hope not, we still remember what happen the last time the republicans had a “favorable mid-term out come”. I thought you guys would be happy about this, seeing as how you are always talking about how big the Government has grown under the democrats, When in fact this department was instituted under the last administration. The thing to remember is this, the government is designed to grow with the Country, it has to, if not you will have the one leading the many, thats a dictatorship, we can’t have that. There are probably a lot of things that was instituted by the repubs that should be cut, in time I think they will. Oh, and one more thing, I think it was that, how did you put it “powerful VA congressional deligation” that suggested the idea.….mabe.

Attempting to close/reduce the number of bases overseas is always tricky but to think you can close Guam is ludicrous in view that it will become the new home 8,000 plus USMC being moved from Okinawa due to political considerations. Guam is our only US held base in the Western Pacific that cannot be
interfered with by local or national politics being a US Territory since 1898.

I duuno-an all volunteer army is not only expensive, but it also relieves citizens of their obligation to defend the nation. Rome fell about the same timeit started using mercenaries-when Romans wouldn’t fight their own wars, and I wonder if our all volunteer army isn’t more of teh same? I’d predict a lot less liberal whining, if they all had to do their part rather than complain about America. I’d also predict more fiscal responsibility, since today’s soldier woudl be tomorrrow’s taxpayer. ANd, I’d predict a higher over all caliber soldier. Lots of “smart” people wouldn’t go military careerm unless forced into it, at which point, they find they like it. M. Obama wouldn’t have so many kids to worry about, eihter.

Lots of contractors make a bundle just feeding the military back its own literature adn training, mostly becasue, the DoD has so many Safety, Environmental and Hazmat freeks and the like, who make regular military training impossible. On a military MOUT sight, we had to use fiberglass car mock ups because, Yup, Env. wouldn’t OK real junk cars-oil in the pans. On a contractor sight, however, we’re driving around junk cars. Yeah, Hazmat is serious business, but its still the janitor-the trashman-on our depot, you’d think the sole purpose of our existance is to find more useless, tree hugging chemicals, not get hurt, and not make any trash. Best way to do all that, is to just do nothing, and it gets pretty close to that, sometimes.

n think many thoughtful experts questioned the wisdom of creating ‘Joint Forces Command’ because it was a knee jerk reaction to events. It was the political culture of the federal government that forced the creation of JTF requiring the military to display and show force that can be recorded in history as having done something and used to validate assorted other decisions. The effectiveness of the new command was a secondary consideration. It appears that Robert Gates might possess the savvy and courage to carry out this brilliant plan. America needs more men and women like this Sec Def. Now if we can do the same with the nuisance practice of bringing retired generals (are the generals retired or not?!) to act as special staff officers, this infamous and gravy train ‘mentoring program’, then DoD will save another chunk of change.

It’s nice to see we have so many experts commenting on this article. I needed a good laugh today and you bloggers have provided it. You people simply weren’t there when the brains were passed out. Thanks for the comic relief.

Armored Forces is top heavy in the Top ranking Officers/NCOs, cuts can be made without hurting the men/woman in the field/sky/sea.

They need to look at the amount of money thats spend on contractors

For every dollar the federal government spends only 59 cents is available through the U.S. Treasury. The other 49 cents must be BORROWED. Any monies recouped from this idea should be used to pay down our national debt. It will not be used for that purpose though, it will be used for expansion of social programs that will be stuffed down every taxpayers’ throat.. Eventually there will be no MIDDLE class in America. You’ll either be rich of poor. Never listen when the government says that it’s going to save money. There is no such concept in Washington and probably never will be again.

oops I meant to say 41 cents must be borrowed. My bad …

Gee my husband just lost his job because of this cut what a shame and then they didn’t hire him and he he’s a army reserve and miltary police now plus he wass in the marines for 13 1/2 years. Instead the army when out and took people of the street that had no miltary experience and gave them a job instead of my husband who has been guarding the Tacom gates in Warren Michigan. This is all a much of crab and he guarded those gates at tacom threw a contractor and now he gets to collect unemployment instead of giving a guy a job who serves our country.

Better to close a hell hole of a base than to close on state side.

Yup and what most dont know is that the posted defense budget the public see’s pays for this while they (the US public) think it is all coming to our military. So here we are trying to reduce US military spending instead of withholding NATO funds which has never been of any use to us from the start.

Yuse guys wit all the political savy and cutesy sound-bite comments gotta keep it zipped. Yuse offer nothin but the same parrot shi*> Ditto to yuse Obama haters. Look: Gates sees a problem and wants to fix it. Waste ain’t democratic or repub. It ain’t right or left wing. Cut the damn fat and useless layers of bumb-witted culture additions to the military culture. B.S rolls downhill. Start at the top and the bottom should clean itself.

Not very smart are you? You forget freedom isn’t free? Should we disarm? Do you know why you and others like you think this way? Because we’ve never been invaded. Let’s just disarm and see what happens.….moron!!

I’ m from both worlds, 24 yrs as an enlisted and most officers arent worth spit until they make 03 if they had a good NCO to train them. There are bad NCO’s but that is the fault of Officers that keep making them promoteable when they should be held back or kicked out. A lot of officers become careerist from 05 and up and loose touch of what they are supposed to be doing and become political in trying to get that star no matter what it takes. I walked right out of the military into a GS-11 position because of my experience with weapons and explosives, moved up to GS13 in just over 3 years. Guess what I only went as high as the 8th grade and have a GED — I have a bunch of GS– 9 and 11’s working for me with masters and doctrines and are still dumb as rocks. So obviously education — especialy as meesed up as our education system is — does not make you smarter than a 5th grader. The fact is — especialy combat ops such as SF, Infantry, artillery, and armored corps — would be better off if everyone went from E1 to 07, ring knockers need not apply.

Guam sucks period — WHy put them there instead of PERAL where all the ships are that the MARINES will need to get where they are going in the first place — there is plenty of room for 8000 more MARINES, they could move right into the old Barners Point Naval ari station that was closed in the 90’s. Pearl is where all the logistics are and that means the response time would actualy be the same. We dont need to be spending money overseas that should be spent on us. We dont need any more territories to support. Shut down guam and rico all together — stop giving American rights (tax dollars) to non taxpaying Americans. Close gitmo too, should have kept Panama if anything. Shoot all the prisoners — blow everything in place and come back to American soil.

Great! Now what I’d like to see is the Department of Homeland Security held to the same standards. I am a current DoD employee and a former employee of Homeland Security. I can unequivocally state that Homeland security is an irreproachable squanderer of an over-inflated budget. Not only are they grade heavy, but many of the individuals in these upgraded positions lack the compatible skills. Talk is talk. It would be nice if people were held accountable for their true performance, untrammeled by the ever present smokescreen set by DHS berauecrats.

I agree 100%, DHS was an abortion from the start. We already had it — but it didnt work because of interagency squabling all the time. It would had made more sense and cost lost money if they had combined all federal law emforcement agaencies into one. The FBI — Secret Service — DEA — CIA — Customs & Border patrol — INS — and Coast Guard all became US Marshals office. All other intellegnce agencies went to the military. Then Break it down to 1 GS 15 as the director and a GS 14 Asst Director in charge of the main office — in every state a GS 14 and GS 13 as state directors, within every state A GS 14 and GS 13 as regional directors, Branches within the region ran by 13’s, everyone else is a GS12 or lower, most individuals would be GS 10 or lower (GS 7 is the average starting point). This would had done away with all the interagency bickering and juristiction without creating a new branch of the government that still exist today with these orgs being part of DHS.

bottom line DOD is very top heavy and our budget process is irresponsible at best. If the private sector was to run a business the way our government runs it, there would not be a private sector. Cuts are required across the board but they need to be targeted and smart, not knee jerk and political, based off accountiability and performance and what makes the most sense not some appeal to make the political left or right happy. But of course none of this will happen because nothing we do these days makes any sense.

Its interesting to me that Sec. Gates started with cuts to both senior military and civilians, and in the area closest to the Pentagon. I think he is testing the waters to gauge the opposition to cutting the sacred cows. If he can meet his goal without too much trouble, we will see more, farther-ranging, and deeper cuts. If there’s ever a time to do it, it would be now while the budget-cutting mood is strong.

From my desk, it seems that project approvals go up a ladder with a ridiculous number of rungs, being reviewed and looked over with great redundancy, and by people with less specific knowledge about the issues at each level. I feel sure there’s a lot of fat that can be cut and in many cases result in cheaper, faster results. However, the deeper he tries to cut, the stronger will be the opposition, and the affected organizations will require procedural changes that may involve Congressional action (eg., changes to the FARs), further complicating things. I am glad he is taking leadership on this issue.

I think sir, you have hit the proverbial nail on the head.….. sigh… I remember when the Army had “Trades and Crafts”… Which were Real Electricians and Plumbers and such that wore Army Uniforms, and were Actually soldiers with Trades and Crafts MOS. Then one day someone decided to fool the public and tell them “We cut Back in the Army, by getting rid of excess soldiers” and they hired CONTRACTORS to replace the former Trades and Crafts… Uh… I’m sorry… I mean “Outsourcing” and look how much those guys make that replaced the once “expensive” soldier.…. tisk, tisk, tisk.…

Boomer, My thoughts exactly. Good Post.

I think defence budget cuts starting from the top down is the way to go. There has been a need to reduce the cost of supporting aged ‘warriors’ and their contractor support/retirement system for a long time.

AMEN, BOOMER.

At 76 (And a U.S. Navy Vet) I’m not quite sure of what’s going on, but this I do know, one of the most important things this country can do to quote TR is “To speak softly and carry a big stick”.

We seem to never learn from History, but again for sure at all costs we must maintain a strong Military force. That includes the United States Coast Cuard who never seem to get enough funding!

Gates hit the JFC. Could be because the tax payers were getting little bang for the buck. I’m sure that Gates would not kill that command if it was that critical. There are other ways to coordinate services rather than create a command. How about a coordination center in the theater of operations or conus manned by a captian, Top and some privates. They would be aware of the various operations and coordinate operational needs of all branches of service.

The army has a policy to move general officers when they are incompetent to a position or a command where they would not be able to make decisions to get a lot of service members killed or comprimise missions. We have all heard the term F**k up move up, hence move up is the the Pentagon. Well Gates time to move em’ out of the system.

The AGR program is another waste of tax payers dollars. You few AGR’s that actually take care of your soldiers and get things done for THEM please forgive me but it is not about you. It is about the AGR’s that have time to make sure that their pomotion packet is compleated, that they get paid, they go to the rquired schools, they get slots for high speed courses, they will blame every one and thing in the command to shift blame for not knowing how to perform thier duties. If those AGR’s did not have the JOB thay would be on the welfare roles.

Miltec’s and their commands. Why? The army and other service’s teach their members how to repair vehicles, weapons and communication equiptment. Is every soldier a combat soldier? We know that when enlisted in the army we are all tought BCT basic combat training. After basic traning comes advanced individual training. Some continue on to advanced combat training and some maintenance, supply, transportation, etc. There are many that sign up for maintainence jobs, so once trained give them the task of maintaning the army’s equiptment rather than creating a military/civilian command to over see army maintainence. The miltec/ dual status uses reservists to fill the positions. The person does his or her weekend drills and works as a civilian during the week. Some are hidden in that paticular system to avoid deployment’s. Unfair? Ask their coworkers some of which have wounds from their deployments. It is a case of who you know or blow. It does not hurt to be a minority you will get preference and forgiveness.
Bang for the taxpayers buck? no.

same stuff,different day.

same s@#t, different day

I am for cuts, but they are never made where they should be. I have seen with my nown eyes the waste fraud, theft, embezzlement, contract kickbacks over inflated contracts, contracts given to relatives and friends that could be eliminated. Most all government contracts are way over inflated, and never deliver the goods or services they promise. Contracting with the government is one dirty business. I have seen myself contracts given to former government employees who retired from civil service who helped set the contract up before retiring, and then kickbacks given for awarding the contracts.

Yet there are proposals to cut military retirement benefits and increase out of pocket costs for TRICARE insurance? TRICARE is all but worthless as it is. You never ever once hear congress and senate step up to the plate and recommend they reduce their benefits do you? Maybe congress and senate should actually have to pay for their medical care for once, and give them the same retirement benefits and TRICARE Insurance just like retired military!!!

Don’t tell me to contact the Waste Fraud and Abuse Hotline, it’s a waste of time! They also know what’s going on everyday.

I fell on the job ten years ago and took time off because of the pain levels were so high my blood pressure went ski high 240/128; my eyeballs felt as if the were being squeezed; hemroids and heart tremors. I thought I was dying, but I took my chances knowing the work where I was employed was ramping up with all kinds of interesting opportunities kept me hungry for the next project. The knowing it was just a matter of time before I would die leaving my family without my support, I was forced to take time off to get the operations to correct the damage and the therapy needed.

The problem I was faced with immediately following the fall that injured me was my supervisor started harrassing me and complaining about me morning and night before I went home and on the weekends so I was left with frustration and mental anguish that kept me in a state of anger and the brain was working overtime planning as necessary to eliminate the problem; I didn’t want to kill the guy so I went to another job that was awesome and a dynamite opportunity where I spent the next 5 years there fighting the pain until I couldn’t any longer; this is where I took the time off to get the surgeries that left me unable to work fort the next three years

. The employer did everything they could to deny me medical care; my doctors documented where OWCP denied to pay for procedures all the time; they act as the Army’s agent to act on their orders; the only thing they would allow was MRI’s , X– Rays and manipulation during the 5 Years after the injury. I was forced to get an attorney ($7000) out of pocket; then and only then did they paid me for the time; the They refused to pay for my surgeries i was forced to commit to the doctors I would pay for everythng; only then would they help me, because OWCP is impossible to work with; they constantly interfered with my treatment by stopping care and refusing to pay for anything until we sued to get help.

Maybe if the Congress, Secretary of Defense cut their staff, we wouldn’t have to have as many staff people in the Miltary Commands, who are needed to answer the Congressional and Defense Dept. job security requests.

3 surgeries took place following this investment.; until then they refused to pay me for the time off to heal. My improving of my condition was impossible due to procedures were denied me. They forced me to take any position after denying me my old job back, they put me with another supervisor that everyday she wrote me up for insubordination or me not following orders; ordering me to do away with my cane and denying me the ergonomics to do the job. If I told her I had limitations in certain area’s she would order me to do what I told her I could not, then she writes me up again;

I filed EEO to try to get some help; that was a joke. Her attempt was to show me as difficult and unwilling to do the job. The obvious effort was to cut numbers and replace the older employees with younger lower income bracketed personnel. The base closure or a combined force of Army and AirForce under a single command where duplicate positions could be eliminated. This is the same people that tried to stop me from going to help the Air Force with their projects offering me a Lead Formans position; acknowledging me as the most knowledgeable of the in-house work force. How is it I’m in their eyes qualified and turn on me to make me look unreasonable and ignorant. If you are hurt on the job, don’t expect help from the command to get back on your feet; this has been my case.

er, the idea, in some cases, including this one, is to eliminate functions and the resources that go with it — not just move them. If the services have learned jointness, they do not need all this research and coordination. It is just BS to perpetuate JFCom. Let the contractors bray, eh?

er, the vast majority of our people in uniform have not, repeat not, been shot at. And the level of violence is rather different than, say, Vietnam. In Vietnam, there were an average of 26 KIA daily. Now–and there is obviously a lot of good in this–in our two wars the cum. average is about one KIA, repeat one KIA, every other day. All those in the service deserve our deep thanks, but don’t make it sound like D-Day.

Bad idea, John. If we think the services have learned jointness, the place can be shutdown.

Marlene obviousily never served her country! Bet you voted to repeal DADT also!

Well, if that is actually the case, then be honest about it. You are drawing down capability. Nothing more, nothing less.

At our last family reunion, I came out and said that if I were a young person now, I would not have gone into the the military. This is a patriotic Eastern Kentucky family and what I said went over like a lead balloon. Total silence. For a lot of people and places, the military is the one way out to upward mobility and self-respect.

The thing that troubles me about this remark is the inwardness and isolationist attitude it represents. Personally, I’ve never heard of this organization and I don’t know what it does. But I did one tour as a foreign area officer and I’ve seen how little the military personnel system appreciates or rewards linguistic skills and cross-cultural knowledge. This administration is supposed to be all about smart power — so if you cut off those very modest investments first, what are you left with ? A lot of nothing.

I think the bigger question that Gates has backed into is this — how much staff do you need if you are IT-capable ? One of my colleagues showed me a thousand page division operations order that they had done up out at Fort Leavenworth — a 1000 pages ? That thing had entire field manuals worth of information on how to conduct a stabilization operations. I’d never seen anything like it. So — just having more computers to put out more paper is not the right model. Never was. You have to look at all the functions, top to bottom and really look at what you are doing with your time as well as your money. Then you can get to a rational answer, not just butcher everything because the ORSAs said it was okay to do so.

Well, since only LDOs who have been former enlisted are retired at 0–1 thorugh O-3, I imagine you would say that paid their dues as enlisted. I had a childhood friend who served on boomers, then got promoted to officer rank, ended up as a Navy Lieutenant on rescue subs. When he retired he had a horse farm, and sadly died of a heart attack still pretty young. But my LTC comment is based on a discussion with a guy who turned down O-6. Two tours over Vietnam. When he retired, he had the more combat hours on B-52s that any man in the Air Force. Worked at Radio Shack, then ran a reform school before he learned to program. I realized talking to him that this guy was just like the rest of us, on the workforce treadmill with a few marketable skills, lots of hearing loss and fighting off a heart condition as approached the big Six — Oh. I’ve known plenty of E-8s and E-9s who did pretty well for themselves in the government-contractor workforce world. No problem there. But do us all a favor — if you think the world owes you a living ’cause you did your 20 or 30 years, and you despise double dippers ’cause you are jealous of their energy and desire to serve — Get out of my face.

Personally, I thought that DHS was a really bad Idea. Generally speaking, whenever an organization got downsized or (as a contractor) needed more work, DHS was the safety valve. No wish to insult anyone, but it is a little bit like it got staffed up in inverse proportion to the skills of the people who make it up…worst in first, best in last.

Generals never officially retire. They can always be brought back and serve at the discretion of the POTUS. They are on Army rolls until they turn 67.

For real! How idiotic is that? I’d love to see your face if a terrorist showed up at your front door and didn’t care about you and your family and exploded a bomb right in your face. If you lived through it, I wonder what your reaction would be? But, you’re probably some liberal that would rather live under socialism or communism and have no idea what those particular types of governments are about.. If it hadn’t have been for the men and women in uniform, you wouldn’t have the freedoms you have this very day. You would no longer have the Republic of the United States of America, if they quit. I bet you didn’t know that one naval aircraft carrier could supply enough electricity to keep a city the size of New York online indefinitely if they suffered a blackout. So they are more than just a war machine. They carry enough doctors and corpsmen onboard to provide medical attention to a town of 10,000 people, if needed. If you don’t like the freedoms you have, then move to one of those socialistic or communistic countries like Cuba. As I’ve said before, you only have what you have because the military gave it to you through their support of the Constitution.

You posting on the wrong site, Go to a healthcare site and post.

logically and cuts sorry

The Army need to relook the five(5) year rule for overseas tours. The Air Forces has up it’s overseas tours from 5 years to 9 years. Army pays $60,000.00 Plus to send a civilian to and overseas assignment and about the same to return him/her to the USA. They can do a way with that rule.

Mr. D

Good point. Better border protection would create MANY jobs right here in the US, for US CITIZENS, while also saving us LOTS of money. The less immigrants live here illegally, the less there are in prisons, schools, on welfare, etc. Seems like a simple solution to me… We need to be more stringent on our laws, and get these damn people outta here that are illegal citizens messing up our government programs, not paying taxes, and using every single free handout they can get. What the hell America… wake up.

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