The End of American Power — Again

The End of American Power — Again

UPDATED: With Link to CSBA Report

It’s not quite clockwork, but it looks like it’s time again for us to have the anguished debate — is America in decline and how stark are the limits on American power.

We had this familial argument when the Communist Party took over China. We had this argument when the Russians stunned the world by launching Sputnik. It recurred during Vietnam. President Jimmy Carter made his famous malaise speech just to keep the pattern unbroken. President Bill Clinton sought the peace dividend and pulled out of Somalia and refused to try and stop the genocide in Rwanda.


Then the last administration came along and resurrected American triumphalism. We would fix the Middle East. We would punish and contain the Axis of Evil. Saddam Hussein would be removed and punished for threatening the world and killing his own people with weapons of mass destruction.

Eric Edelman, former undersecretary of Defense for policy under President Bush and Donald Rumsfeld, says variations of this debate occur about once every decade and that they get more rambunctious in hard economic downturns.

With Reps. Barney Frank and Ron Paul leading the charge for enormous cuts to the defense budget, Australia telling the world (and us) that it can’t rely on the US in the future, the Chinese sub surfacing in sight of an American carrier, and all the national anguish centering on Iraq and Afghanistan it seems we are once again in the cycle of questioning our exceptionalism, our global mission, even our very identity.

Here’s the intelligence community’s view of the situation, which Edelman takes as his point of departure: “In November 2008, the National Intelligence Council released Global Trends 2025 which argued that ‘the international system — as constructed following the Second World War — will be almost unrecognizable by 2025 owing to the rise of emerging powers, a globalizing economy, a historic transfer of relative wealth and economic power from West to East, and the growing influence of non-stateactors. By 2025 the international system will be a global multipolar one with gaps in national power continuing to narrow between developed and developing countries” [emphasis in original].‘This conclusion represented a striking departure from the NIC’s conclusion four years earlier in Mapping the Global Future 2020 that unipolarity was likely to remain a persistent condition of the international system.

Edelman, now working with the much-respected Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, has penned a report for them titled, “Understanding America’s Contested Primacy.”

Edelman’s bottom line: having this argument usually results in our finding solutions to what ails us.  And there is, for the foreseeable future, little likelihood that that the US will lose its place as “the leading state in the international system with a decisive preponderance in all the underlying components of power: economic, military, technological and geopolitical.” It may not mean, in Madeleine Albright’s felicitous phrase, that we are the “indispensable nation,” but the U.S. will be more than primus inter pares. In Edelman’s words: “Although the United States will face increasing competition from rising regional powers and potentially new nuclear weapons states, much will depend on how well the United States as a nation is capable of mobilizing its residual strengths and managing the policy challenges it faces.”

That will mean that the U.S. will have to rely more on allies and partners. “Australia will need to take on a greater burden with us in the western Pacific,” he said. Vietnam and Indonesia are also likely new close friends in that region.

I asked him if we are at a strategic turning point in global affairs. He said he thought we are “an inflection point.” In a fine bit of understatement, Edelman said “a lot will also depend on outcomes in Iraq and Afghanistan.”

Join the Conversation

“Edelman’s bottom line: having this argument usually results in our finding solutions to what ails us.” I believe this was Stephen Johnson’s thesis as well, and Edelman probably quotes him.

But I think it is equally likely that America’s “decline” was exaggerated in these cases, and the supposed ascendancy of other powers was greatly exaggerated as well. Things were not as bad as the Chicken Littles claimed. Was Japan really the economic juggernaut people feared? Or did it have some major structural weaknesses that the kvetchers were overlooking?

We need to maintain our military power, yet stop trying to drag countries like Afghanistan out of the stone age with it. We don’t need hundreds of bases overseas. Lets ensure our military is as strong as it is today, but stop doing the job of the armies our allies should have. If somebody messes with us lets not be afraid to kick their ass, but let them rebuild, not us.

When it comes to China, we can’t resign ourselves to this notion of “they rule the world” and “lets not bother being a superpower.”

Power follows economics. America’s % of global GDP and population is shrinking, therefore our power will decline to match eventually.

Last year, China produced 13.6 millions of motor vehicles, while U.S. output dropped almost half to 5.7 million units. For the same year, Chinese steel production reached 570 million tons vs. US 58 million tons, that’s almost an absurd 10 to 1 ratio!
Chinese industrial GDP caught up US in the second half of 2010 and is becoming the #1 industrialized nation. That’s based off nominal GDP figure. On the scale of purchasing power parity, China probably is already way ahead of us. The great American de-industrialization is an irreversible trend. That’s the major difference between 80’s Japan and today’s China.
I keep hearing people downplaying the damage Japanese did to US economy. Yes Japan’s own economy bubbled out and faded in early 1990’s. But that didn’t change the fact end of US pre-dominance in many industrial sectors as such electronics or automotive. Today Japan is facing the competition from Korean and Chinese, where U.S. is a non-player.

Let me ask this, how much longer would you believe US military can be supplied with first rate weaponry without an industrial base? I mean system integration and software are great stuff to have, but you still have to build machinery on hardware components and machine tooling. Lately we heard about quality control issues experienced on newly constructed naval ships. These are not isolated incidents; they are the reflections of a diminishing and inadequate ship building base and expertise. Sadly DoD procurement is becoming more and more dependent on foreign suppliers, and you start reading articles about preventive measurement taken against fake or bootleg microchips entering military supply chain. You do the math and tell me that America’s decline is an exaggeration. It’s the economy, stupid. Without a strong economy, I don’t care how good your military is today, it won’t last long. This is especially true in the age of information when the pace of technical advancement is moving fast ahead.

Free trade has f3%$$**ked us royally!!

It’s about time we get an administration with the cojones to stand up to other countries and tell them “to the same extent your markets are open to the Us, that is how our markets will be open to you!!”

We can compete with anyone if the playing field is level — and that’s where the President comes in.

I have no doubt this is the end of the USA as a superpower. Your country’s nationless corporations have exported all the jobs and mamufacturing to China and left you with the left overs, your executives have been paid obscene salaries and run away with the money. Because the gambling and corrupt practices your banking system has plunged the world into finacial turnmoil, Your government has engaged in wars to satisfy the interests of a few people, the USA is now 11 in the ranking of the best countries in the world. Not much left I am afraid, and this is the opinion of someone that used to be a supporter of the USA as a nation. You just cannot afford any of the things you used too and the world cannot continue paying for your standard of living, institutions or the military. Your debt is unpayable and will send the world into another turnmoil I think.
Very sad.

The United States maintains the most robust military-industrial complex in the world. What’s your point?

Globalization erodes the efficacy of bipolar trade jockeying.

And where, may I ask, are you from? The EU’s collective situation makes the U.S. recession look positively rosy. Let’s call a spade a spade — the only real winner is China right now, and even that is debatable.

We sure could use 250 more F-22s to improve our global competitiveness and world ranking in education test scores.

I beg the difference. If US military-industrial complex is so robust today, how come we keep cancelling those big ticket items due to cost/time overrun? Why can’t we build a decent warship without having crappy welding or leakage? F-22 or F-35 assembly are most likely using imported machine tooling since there is no precision machining industry left in this country. Same goes with military rated microchips that are outsourced and fabricated in Asia. If China does take over Taiwan, DoD microelectronic supply chain would be thrown in chaos. We don’t have any capability left in this country.
US defense contractors are no different from their civilian counterparts. They are hollowing out as second and third tier suppliers dying off when big primes moving into system integration and program management.

If one actually reads this quite ambitious paper, what comes out is a more balanced and nuanced view than Colin’s coverage suggests. The CBSA paper does suggest that US primacy is a good thing and ought to remain a policy objective — and that the US has it in its power to determine whether or not it can in fact continue its — reputed — position of unchallenged hegemony. Yes, it suggests that the US will need more help from its allies, but given the demographic facts on the ground, it is a bit unclear how that is going to happen. Indeed — while this is a bit against the CBSA’s cheap power religion, the report suggests that the US has much more demographic staying power in both the short run and the long run than any other major competitor, excepting Brazil (which admittedly has a long, long way to go before it is in a position to challenge the US geopolitically.) The central question really is whether the US can hold itself together as a society and assimilate the large number of immigrants it has taken on into its ranks. This, more than the ebb and flow of economic trends, is what matters most.

“Australia telling the world (and us) that it can’t rely on the US in the future”

Could you *please* cite the source of this?

If it worked that way, we wouldn’t be importing more and more tech workers.

Bad management doesn’t equal a lack of capability. Frame your argument correctly.

What a load rubish! Australia & USA are bound by the ANZUS Treaty ! Everyone is suggesting USA is in decline but hey its have the largest highly technical armed forces and do realy think hot air coming from Russia & China going to make one of the greatest armed forces in history fall down when the going get tuff the tuff get going!

Maybe the so called alllies who quiver in the ranks and do dodgy deals behind close doors with Communist party is going to get bite in the a.. when a critical event happens who are you going to stand by a nation that excutes hundreds economic gain or freedom of speech and liberty?

Good Evening Folks,

Colin’s opening statement says it all. This post is DOA, same old stuff just crammed into a different right wing sausage tube.

One issue that I would like to comment on is Sputnick. Since most of the history or what is called history of the Cold War era is written by right wing ideologs the story of this event is terribly distorted. Lets take a look at 1957.

From July 1, 1957 to December 31, 1958 was the International Geophysical Year, a year and a half of scientific discoveries. The launching of an earth satellite was to be the high point of that “Year” and it was expected that the US would do. Well in thre US form the Navy and the Army both had different ideas of how to do it. The Navy had Vanguard and Congressional support, the Army had Redstone/Captured German Scientists and Jupiter C/Explorer. The Navy got the first and second shots and well, it literary blew up on them in a most public manner. The Soviets launch Sputnick I and II between Navy attempts one and two.

The Army of course launched Explorer I in January 1958 and the Navy disappeared from the space race. MOst scientists really consider Sputnick II the first real earth satellite because it did some real science. Sputnick I was just a meaningless bleep from space to show the world the superiority of Soviet Science. For any that are interested on the IGY it’s over on the net. Since I lived in the era I remember it quite well.

The US lost the satellite race because we divided our efforts because of silly inter service nonsense and Admirals and Generals egos and bragging rights, the Soviets slipped in a took the bragging rights for all time. The same cr** is still happening today, which service is the most important by a looney Admiral, give me a break.

From readers. I have got some posts from readers that are critical of managements “conservative editorializing in the posts”. They have suggested that if the buzz wants to inform and have its opinions known, it is not beneficial to say “insulting” things about members who might disagree with their position.

A person who I assume to be a staffer, and in general favors the pro industry positions taken on the buzz of late here, asked me to remind management that it is give and take in the US Congress on issues, we are not “Great Britain” and Parliament. and that often you will have to kiss the arse’s of some people who disagrees with you, to get things done and insulting them is not conducive to that end.

Personally I don’t care if management shows favor to the right or not, but I said I would pass it on so I have.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

How about we don’t spend the money ( I mean borrow)- PERIOD. Seems some people have no problem spending the people’s money on whatsoever they fancy, just as long as it has defense listed next to it.

You have to love Australians for their naive faith that all that sacrifice will buy them American support. It reminds one of those child’s piggy banks — where children are told they will live happily every after if they carefully save their change. The fact is that in a fight between Indonesia and Australia the best the Australians can hope for is American neutrality.

Just ask Britain about our support during the Falklands.

Right wing ideologues? Conservative editorializing? You left wingers are so paranoid Byron. If anything your seeming ability to post over the character # limit shows otherwise. While we were still making headway with our own space program at the time, Sputnik was still a major propaganda victory for the Russians. But I’m really not certain what point your trying to make with Sputnik. It still served as a message to redouble our efforts in my opinion. Inter-service politics/rivalry is something that never goes away, but it isn’t a problem exclusive to the United States. Despite the huge sums invested into their military, Soviet officers from different branches still found plenty to disagree about.

I am from Australia and agree with your comments to a certain extent. I have been following the events in the USA and Europe since the GFC started and I think the outlook is not good at all, and you are right, the situation in the EU is not good either. They also lived beyond their means for a long time. I have pondered about these issues for quite a while now and am now convinced the USA is bankrupt, with very little hope of recovery because there is no silver bullet that can be used to get it out from the current situation like what happened with the invention of the internet. The USA is now printing money for the second time in a short period to reduce the value of the dollar, increase exports and disappear the debt it has. In the process countries like Australia will be SEVERELY affected by the rising AU dollar, that has now reached parity with the US dollar, because of reduced exports, a lot less turism, increased costs etc. I wish I could just leave it as a military subject but finding it very difficult to do so. And again you are right, China has all the money in the world and the USA all the debt and very little manufacturing left.
It is a big subject.

Sorry, double post.

I sit here listening to the drone of a C-130 going overhead, yesterday a flight of F-22’s did a fighter break to the east of me. The mail runs, the trash is collected and I’m voting come November, I am not forced to pay islamic jizya nor submit to allah five times a floggin’ day from where I sit America is doing just fine.

Bobbymike, look at the numbers. I know you are gunghoe on military spendiing and all, but buying more military hardware has not, and likely is not, going to raise the dwindling amount of science majors when there are fundamental problems in the education system. Using your anecdote, we might be better served taking the money from defesne and spending it on NASA.

What my orginal comment was getting at, is that we as a nation have gotten to a point that we view ourselves almost entirely as a military power. We seem to derive a sesne of purpose and grandeur from it that feeds itself. Cut some planes or a previous capability and there go the doom and gloom scenarios about the death of U.S. greatness. US military power did not make us great nation, but its seem sto in the late 20th and 21st century to be making us a poorer one. Utter military dominance has seemed to have given Americans and their politicans a carte blanche mentality to do whatver they feel like when it comes to using military power. We are long due for our own type of Suez like scenario ( that’s if we already have not expereinced it) that ended the British empire before us.

Like Bobbymike said demographics are good. But we don’t invest enough in resaerch, business, or in worker training. Furthermore, we are seriously lagging in educating our children…though I’m doubtful that more money will solve this.

In other words. We expending too much capital and mental energy on entitlements and defense, that we losing focus of the more important things in between.

That refusal to go down the path the British have, to keep ourselves a military and technological world leader is one of the things that makes our country great in my opinion. We’ve had enough cuts as it is, and too many decades old systems serving on with no replacement in sight. Education problems should not be the death of our military. And I can’t say I would have been inspired to pursue a career in aerospace matters if the United States had nothing there beyond the manufacture of Boeing airliners.

- “Education problems should not be the death of our military.”

…Why do you insist on framing things in those hyperbolic terms? Ever ask yourself that? If it’s a zero sum game in this country, then the inverse sounds much more reasonable to me: Pursuit of global dominance is not worth a broken, bankrupt education system.

Couple more points–

- The first ten amendments to our Constitution are what give this country the potential to be great. The people give it life. How well are we living up to the spirit of those?

- The British Empire died in no small part thanks to the USA. In light of that, does the analogy still hold up? What’s the best long term strategy to avoid becoming Great Britain, or Rome?

I’m framing it in those terms because you insist that the defense budget should be cut partly for education reasons. Now why don’t we cut somewhere else? Why slash the military which has seen more than it’s fair share of cuts since George Bush Senior?

It’s like when you hear “cut” you can only think “Timmmberrrr!” I’m talking “pruned.”

You really think the Republic is doomed if we build some schools and pay some teachers, instead of buying a couple dozen of those over-stuffed F-35s? Really?

-“Fair share”- give me a break… We wouldn’t have even felt those cuts if we’d changed our behavior and stayed the hell out of places that don’t concern us. What good has come of it? Anything?

What should make a country great is, apart from what you mentioned, is also the ethics and moral strength of its institutions. From what is coming out that seems to have been lost.

How is the USA continue to be a superpower if it is in debt to the tune of $13,672,240,988,492.71.
See this: http://​www​.brillig​.com/​d​e​b​t​_​c​l​o​ck/
The estimated population of the United States is 309,342,028
so each citizen’s share of this debt is $44,197.81.
The National Debt has continued to increase an average of
$4.17 billion per day since September 28, 2007!

Oh, I see… What you think is caution and restraint, is very far from what someone in another country perceives. Think it through.

Let’s say I have a button that can kill anybody with one click, but I only use it a little bit. Do you like me, or would you like to take away my button? Or maybe have one of your very own?

Yes BSkinner we lost the satellite race but I recall that we won the space race, that is provided you accept that we were originally racing rather than merely complacent. We might have even maintained that victory today and for years to come had SDI been pursued to its potential end or had certain officials not been careless and cavalier about safeguarding our technology, really high up officials too as you’ll recall.

So what does that have to do with Edelman’s article? Do you have difficulty understanding his kind of analysis? Hardly DOA and that’s why he writes for CSBA and we flail away with our insignificant opinions on this lowly blog. You do offer a good laugh most of the time so don’t give up contributing.

Edelman would take a full page plus footnotes to tell you how to fight your way out of a wet paper sack. Don’t mistake convoluted for complex.

Don’t get me started about the teachers union in my state. You’d be hard press to find a more crazy union up here.

You say cut a dozen, but how many in reality? When does a dozen become a hundred, a thousand? That’s what I am worried about, our politicians just cutting “a little bit” more until your down to the bare bones. Or getting into the habit of cutting the defense budget every administration to solve deficit problems like the British.

Personally I don’t think we need to go back up to 15 carriers, but we shouldn’t cut our force structure further. At the same time I believe we need to really start replacing our current inventory with a new generation of equipment, meaning things like the F-22 and what the F-35 is/was supposed to be.

If we are talking about nuclear arms here, the bad guys and crazies of the world won’t give up those systems just because we agree to. They may politely hide those nukes when the UN inspectors come around, but they will keep nukes to have an edge over any of those countries naive enough to totally disarm themselves.

A few months ago a USAF General I believe said that when it comes to nukes, you “can’t put the genie back in the bottle.” Like it or not he is absolutely right. We need to have that nuclear deterrent.

No, I’m fine with having a nuclear deterrent, although my analogy can be applied there. I’m referring to bobbymike’s assertion that we show restraint as a superpower. We do, but all that matters for the other guy is that we have, maintain, and plan for the use of force anywhere, anytime. It’s going to encourage resistance, and with good reason from the other perspective. We can be ruthless in international politics, and our behavior is not necessarily seen as benevolent.

What we need from our politicians is good judgment and balance. Sounds simple, but in reality I think the way we elect and fund these people pushes them toward anything but. It’s our responsibility as voters in the end. Again, sounds simple, but if you don’t like the jackasses the parties are running, how do you get better people in there? Most voters don’t bother.

Anyway, that’s how you avoid those slippery slope traps. Put good people in charge (and kick them out before they turn crooked). Someone dedicated to balance and good governance won’t let the military atrophy.

I think the problem right now is the opposite. The stories about cutting the defense budget by ~10% over ten years make good grist for the mill on this site but don’t have a chance in hell of passing. Americans don’t hate the military right now, and they’re disconnected from the war(s). Gates, Mullen, and Petraeus are trying to continue making the use of force viable, now with COIN. It doesn’t matter that there’s no payoff for the country. Things are setting up to continue as always.

Good Evening Folks,

To Hitch Hiker. I wasn’t referring to “The Space Race”, I was mentioning a single event in 1957. Did we win the Space Race. I’m sure that there are those who would doubt that we did.

As for Edelman’s article. I find little to comment on in it, I find it really rather trite and simplistic, so I guess there is an audience who find it attractive, I’m not among them.

Anybody who engages in political predictions is nearly as big fool as those who buy into them.

ALLONS,

Byron Skinner

Because it’s the economic locus of the planet? Do you really think the global hegemon can go down without dragging the world with it? What happened last time? I’ll give you a hint; feudalism.

Actually I think you just described exactly what foreign relations IS. We want to influence other countries, so we take into account how they view and interact with the world. What’s difficult about that?

Libya… one point doesn’t make a line. That might make them the exception that defines the rule. Qaddafi had started sucking up to the west years before we invaded Iraq for reasons that had little to do with fear of attack. Any other examples?

Very interesting point of view. Looks like we are there already!!

The feudal system was a way of government based on obligations between the lord or king and vassal.

The king gave large estates to his friends and relatives. These estates known as the fief included houses, barns, tools, animals, and serfs or peasants. The king also promised to protect the vassal on the field or in the courts. In return the nobles who were granted the fiefs swore an oath of loyalty to the king. The nobles promised never to fight against the king. They also had to give the king whatever he asked for. The king may ask for men to fight a war, money, or advice. The nobles also gave the king a place to stay when he traveled.

Each of the king’s vassals was also a lord or tenant in chief with vassals of his own. Each vassal would be an overlord to those he granted fiefs while remaining a vassal of the king. The subtenants in turn subdivided the land. Sometimes there were many levels of lords who had vassals under them.

The most important promise of the vassal to the lord was the military. The vassal usually served as a knight. This service lasted about 40 to 60 days a year. If they actually had to fight in a war they usually did so for two months. If there was no war the knights did 40 days of training at the castle.

There were only a few nobles. Most people, approximately nine-tenths, were serfs who worked the land for a noble. The serf was bound to the land. If the noble sold the land the serf went with it. This was not much better than being a slave.

A peasant village had between ten to sixty families. Each family lived in a hut made out of wood or straw. The floor was covered with straw or reeds. Beds were made from a pile of dried leaves or straw. Animal skins were used as blankets. A cooking fire burned in the middle of the hut with the smoke escaping through a hole in the roof. Furnishings included a plank table, a few stools, and a chest. Each hut had its own vegetable garden.

About half the serfs time was spent working for the lord. Jobs included working in the fields, cutting wood, hauling water, spinning and weaving, repairing buildings, and waiting on the members of the lord’s family. Peasant men were even expected to fight in times of war. Besides all the work peasants had to pay taxes to their lord. This was usually given in wheat, lamb, chicken, and other animals.

There were also some freemen peasants. These people were usually in a trade. These people were not bound to the land. They paid a fixed rent to the lord. The freemen had more legal rights than the serfs and fewer duties to the lord. In actuality there was little real difference between the freemen peasants and the serfs.

By the twelfth century this system was found throughout most of Western Europe.

My point isn’t that we’re going to regress back to feudalism. My point is that a collapse of the American economy would result in a collapse of the global economic system.

Earlydawn, of course not, but interesting to see the similarities between the definition of feudalism and what is happening today. Change all the definitions to a global scale to see.
Your point about a collapse of the US economy is an obvious one, and we were almost there when Lehman Brothers collapsed. We were at the brink of a total collapse of the world financial system. What I am afraid of is that the US economy is out of control, and with very little chnaces of recovery since there is nothing there to bring it back to what it was before.
Absolutely nothing. Your manufacturing is gone and the US unemplyoment figures are not improving at all and mask the real unemployment figures which are higher. All the new capacity needed to supply the USA will go straight to China (thank the CEOs of your corporations and government for that).
Worse than that is that I have the impression that any improvements of it will come at the expense of exploiting the rest of the world.

No you lost the Space Race too, but you won the Moon Race. Over the years its been accepted that the moon was the space race but there was many achievements to be made in space and all bar the moon, the Soviets did almost all of them first — getting Gagarin into space was the ‘space race’. The one that we say mattered (because we achieved it) was reaching the moon — it was more complex than most of the Soviet achievements relative to capability/experience.

…but in the context of the article, the US is in decline but far from ceding to China, though this will likely happen. It will take a new train of economic thought to turn around that is so radical that no conservatives would ever support it.

If I remember my recent history, it was debatable whether the Russians would get to the moon first. However, they had a catastrophic (and well covered-up) launcher failure that killed off some of their top talent in the ’67-’68 time frame, and they didn’t quite recover in time.

I once listened to Frank Borman speak on his experiences. Remembering that in those days nearly all the astronauts were military test pilots (I think we flew a civilian sometime later in the Apollo program), it was not surprising to me that he characterized the race to the moon as a war that the US one. He then observed, dryly, that a possible reason for the decline of the program after that point might have been because the US treated their moon program like they treat the military after we win a war — adminster the death of a thousand cuts through budget restrictions.

Regarding whether the US is rising, falling, or otherwise…if historical data is a trend, then yes, things will change for the US. The belief and the will is nearly gone, and the money has already followed.

Sorry old but the ills of the US have been decades in the making. Thats what people don’t seem to realize — it took more than one administration to get the US to this point and it will take more than one term of an administration to fix it.

Eric Adelman is a fourth generation post WWII wanna be master of the universe following in the footsteps of Richard Hass and Paul Wolfowitz and all the other mediocre technocrats who have yearned for global ascendancy while hollowing out the economy and the physical and intellectual infrasturcutre of the United States. Washington and New York have become the imperial pimples on an increasingly wooly and endangered mammoth.

We have capitulated to China. We now rely on the majority –the world majority of rare-earth mining and China’s dire hold on it. China produces over 97% of the worlds rare earth supply (Wikipedia). Why is that remotely important? Our highly technical defense weapons systems rely on those. We have lost our manufacturing base, our mining base. We are a nation of services, rather than of products. China owns a large percentage of our national debt. 895B.

Unless we get leadership in the form of upgrading infrastructure, jobs, and the economy we are destined to be that great experiment of the greatest country in the world.

I think the debate about America’s possible decline
is more serious now than it was during Sputnik
or Vietnam. During those periods of time,
the United States was the undisputed paramount economic leader and the dollar was king.
Now the United States is not only a debtor nation rather than a creditor,
but China owns about 1 trillion dollars of American debt,
and if China were to stop buying American debt
it would cause an economic catastrophe and possibly a government shutdown.
How times have changed.

Hell yea thats the spirit Drake1.….F-22’s will strike fear into others that think they can screw with the U.S. Thus allowing us to better our global competitiveness and will allow less money to be spent on military over the long hull. These funds saved should be put directly into the education system. The United States needs to better its military yes! But somehow some way we really need to get our freakin EDUCATION (childern) system in gear, in check , what ever the hell you want to call it. Out drop out rate are B.S. and the TEST scores suck ASS!. Oh yea one more thing STOP free loading illeagals!!!!!!!!!!

There are far too many factors to simplify the situation concerning the fall of the USSR. The greatest factor had to do with actions that are still classified, but the military buildup was a great factor. If you look at the the funding mess, it is a combination of the cuts AND the fact that there is NO long-term stability! Every 8 years or so that world gets turned upside down! The military needs a SOLID funding strategy for expense items and guaranteed capitol funding for line-item programs that are NOT affected by politics. (Plus, far more of the development needs to be “black”!) Finally, we need to get the politicians OUT of the decision-making process after the initial approvals and assuming that milestones are met, as they never do what is right for our fighting men; they do what’s right for their political careers! The infusion of politics into the military does far more harm than our enemies!

I would also say leave them afgans in their stone age era.would we like being told what to do?But we had to mingle in on lies to get to Irak,looking for WMD.the world knew that they did not have them any more.We just needed to oust Saddam​.in turn why not send the troops to Afgan and make a rumble over there.We are just as corrupt as some folks in afgan starting with president “Karzia“yes corrupt with paying him $$$ as Iran funny they just let the drug stuff double since we are there,funny it pops up in American cities??Sad to see so many young kid soldiers in prison when they need to be treated for ptts..

This line of thinking is a mirror representation of the unfortunate place we find ourselves as US citizens. The over-focus on external threats and lack of focus on the enemy that is within is our problem. That enemy is the ruling class who is methodically organizing our decline from within. During the Regan years, 90% of Americans believed in American exceptionalism. Today, we hear from our leadership that the time is come when we must stand down and take on the mindset of equality to other nations. Everything rises and falls on leadership and where the leaders lead, the people generally follow.

I don’t think you guys get it, we’re done put a fork in us. Right now we’re so reliant on China making everything for us at a cheap price, I can’t imagine where we would be without them. That’s the funny thing about a global economy it forces countries to be dependent on one another like partners attached at the hip. The Chinese love us over there, with all of our businesses big and small selling their mothers downstream and the rest of us working stiffs, all to make a buck. With the Repubs coming in to allow more free money in tax cuts and low interest loans, China only stands to get a bigger piece of our American Pie.

Really I wouldn’t worry about China they need us just as much we need them. Perhaps as they have learned to become a social-capitalist hybrid of sorts, we may need to follow their lead just to keep up. All the right wing Tea Party bluster is purely a waste of time, we are not of the same tough cold war brand we were 30 to 40 years ago. We have seriously fizzled out, and the fizzling will continue so long as we don’t think out of the box.

Yes there will always be the need to kick some bad guy butts, right now most of them of the low tech camel humping variety. So do we need such a huge force? Probably not, but it sure keeps plenty of good people busy in high paying jobs honing their fine technical skills. We shell out so much money for Welfareites to sit on their butts, who cares if we do a bit more with defense spending.

SOME Americans voted for a muslim who is intent on destroying our country. How long are we going to let this continue?

For many, many of the true war-mongers, sabre-rattlin’ pretenders, and outright ‘fakers’ the prospect of less war, death and destruction is overwhelmingly unsettling. For the United States to NOT be engaged in correcting the world’s supposed ‘wrongs’ is anathma to their way of thinking. For the generals and admirals to be less engaged in ‘the big game’ (of war) somehow diminishes the selfworth of those same generals and admirals (at least in their eyes). Yet, this very same collective ‘group-think’ forgets that it is politicians who spur our nation to war…not the generals or admirals…nor the common man. When the politicians have had enough of war, they’ll find the means to stop. This is exactly what is happening now; simple as that. Our nation should look inward and rebuild with our own self-interest as the main focus. Expeditionary wars are a dead-end.

Or, is there a preference among this websites ‘big thinkers’ to stay in Afghanistan and defend the United States against.….against whom? This thesis is threadbare and corrupt.

Signed, A Retired Marine

Ha! Good one ‘Drake1’.…way to stir up the hornet’s nest.…you really suckered in the non-thinkers.

How is it that your posts are so large and I am restricted, considerably?

Semper Fi .….….. It takes a Marine to see through the smoke and see the true nature of these ‘wars’.

I agree witnh CavScoutSniper. We are still the best of the best as world leaders, no matter what some say. We just need to get the socialist dems out of power so we can get back to the business at hand of restoring America to what it was and still should be had we not succumbed to political greed, partisan devisiveness, and lies from a fallen false savior and his leftist cronies. It’s not going to be easy, but it can be done, so quit being so negative, get your lazy butts back to working together, and create some change we can all really believe in.

From an analytical view„ what I’m reading is evidence of a gradual decline over a long period of time. It appears there are stretches where it levels as problems are ‘band-aided’ with short term solutions, but as these erode, the decline continues. Not so noticeable you’d set off alarms. There also doesn’t seem to be any one or even few countries willing/trying to overtly ascend to superpower status. That’s not to say it isn’t occurring covertly or at a similar rate as the U.S.‘s ongoing decline. I believe the decline is reversible, but will likely take double the 50+/- years it took to get to this point. For more in-depth details of my analysis and recommendations — hire me!!! I’m an intell analyst with 15 years experience in the office, in the field, and as unit supervisor. Also brief stints as acting administrator. Sorry, shameless plug — but I’m really good at what I do and hate to see it go to waste.

In l942 the Roman Philologist Don Raimundo Lida addressed our objective for power:

TO VITALIZE THE HUMAN HEART

I see a number of such statements, but I’ll add mine to the mix. I DID NOT serve 23 years as a naval intelligence officer, and I do not continue to serve in a DOD civilian capacity, so we can become what we stood against during the Cold War. No name-calling here. It’s just straight facts. Google the American Communist Party’s website (CPUSA). Better yet, for cliff notes, look up the Wikipedia page on that organization and read it’s top 12 list of policy objectives. Then look at the Democrat Party’s agenda. Moreover, look at what Obama and his rubber stamp Congress has been doing since they took office. There LITERALLY is not a shred of difference between them. In fact, Obama and company have already passed the CPUSA’s policy objectives #2 and #9, with a federal government taking over of healthcare and banking.

He also managed a bonus in the process; the taking over of education financing by sneaking it at the last minute into the so-called “healthcare” bill. There’s good reason for this. He and his fellow Democrats, which include the Clintons, have long sought to have the power to determine WHO goes to college and who doesn’t. This not only gives them the ability to buy more votes among their base constituents, but allows them to PUNISH those who do not. Furthermore, the long-range intent is that this will give them control over what subjects will be studied, by whom, and where these people will work once they’ve graduated. That’s exactly how things worked in their beloved USSR. The GOVERNMENT decides what field you will work in and where.

This is especially important to Obama and company in the medical industry. If they actually manage to institute their “changes,” the only people who will have any choice in what they want to do in the medical field will be kids from extremely rich families; I’m talking perhaps at most, 2% of such students. The rest of us, who need to get loans or such to obtain such education will be forced to go to the federal government for finances, and there will be BIG strings attached to getting it. You’ll have to sign on the dotted line as to what area of medicine you’ll be studying and subject yourselves to government dictate as to where you’ll work upon graduation.

Obama’s true goal is he wants to create the socialist education we see overseas in which students have their university studies paid for, but will then be a slave to the state, for at least half their lives, as repayment. He’s already stated he wants to give all students a pass after 20 years. That is, any portion of the education not paid back will be “forgiven.” He actually then dropped that to 15 years, with only 10 tens if you work for the government. Do you see where we’re heading? As I said, we’re literally becoming the very thing we stood against during the Cold War. They said we won the Cold War in 1990. Did we? I think not. We may have defeated the Soviet Threat from overseas, but we ignored the well-established domestic communist threat, which had become our own Democrat Party. To some, you might think this all hyperbole. DON’T!!!

Being from Chicago I know EXACTLY who Obama is and what he wants to do. His entire life was spent being mentored by the Who’s Who of the Anti-America left in this country. His church was no church but a radical black political organization which used the cover of a “church” so they didn’t have to pay any taxes. He listened to, and agreed with, Jeremiah Wright’s rantings for the 20 years he was there. He’s also NOT a Christian. He’s basically an atheist, with huge sympathies to Muslims. No, he’s not a Muslim, per se. But he politically sympathizes with them and is on their side in many ways, especially vis-a-vis Israel. He and his mentor HATE Israel and have been turning our relationships with foreign powers around 180 degrees. Read and you’ll see how even his supporters in Europe are now horrified at the open disrespect he’s been showing them while bowing before third world nations. Even Sarkozy is utterly appalled by this guy’s activities and is pissed he was so easily duped into believing Obama was a good thing for U.S. — European relations.

I just returned from Italy and found almost everywhere I went people noting how they’re hearing that Obama’s popularity is dropping rapidly in the U.S. Most seemed to be convinced he was some new Messiah for the west. Their opinions of him are mixed, but have noted that most of America IS NOT happy with the direction he’s been taking us. Professionals, however, like in the medical industry whom I met, think his ideas are dangerous for America. That is something EVERYONE should ponder.

Do you ever get the feeling that you’ve been used? With the gas lines exploding, dams braking bridges falling through the years the destruction is taking the toll as the elected get pay increases.These people are responsible of the infrastructure. To keep jobs coming and the maintain America. They do not deserve the money they get. No more Benefits,Pay increases, or retirement checks until they do the job they should have done.

Tom,

You need help…You’re one obsessed dude! Obama has been trying his damnedest to keep this country out of a depression using as many economic tricks as possible, barring all the ridiculous obstruction by the Repubs.

As for healthcare, c’mon the rest of the world is laughing at us for being such morons in not adopting a full social medicine platform. Right now a third or 100 million people in this country are poorly covered or not at all. Although we may have pockets of greatness, this is only due to dedication and not the money, despite all the pessimists. In comparing America to Great Britain’s healthcare for costs, quality of care and overall percent of GDP, we pale horrendously. Check it out.

Stop reading all the right wing lies perpetrated by the wealthy and mean spirited wing nuts. Obama is not perfect, but hell of a better president than we ever had in decades!

I’m glad to see so many people seeing the truth about our situation. Most people need to understand that so much of our downturn and China’s upturn is simple American greed. Company’s willing to sell out for more profits in China and the American consumer who doesn’t care about patriotism or Communism just $$$$. Most American’s would rather shop at Walmart and buy made in China, than go to Target (Better chance to find something NOT made in China.) and pay 10% and help America’s growth, or at least not help China grow.

Others go to church twice a week, but have no problem supporting the number 1 producer of atheist. Over a billion of them.

If you want to see proof of America’s intellectual decline, just read these blogs to see a poor command of grammar and an inability to clearly articulate ideas in a complete sentence.

The microchip problem is already stabbing the IT sector in the back; we get infected chips everyday that have firmware flashed malware embedded in it from the factory. Does anybody punish the vendor? Hell no!

It has come to the point, you don’t dare use the original CD drivers that come with peripheral appliances, because they almost always have malware burned in with the drivers. Complaining to the manufacture gets you zip; they just point to the factory update mirror.

vok definitely has a point. We should stop propping up the dollar, I don’t care if it affects the deficit; we need to make cheap propositions overseas, and a cheap dollar makes that attractive. We could pay our deficits if congress gave a hoot, but they don’t. The government would be better off promoting our US products than trying to legislate their way out of trouble. Just making a good business environment, and fixing the stupid foreign treaties would be a big gainer. The unions are committing suicide by greed, and none of them seem interested in making their labor cost effective, and justifying pay raises by productivity gains. I’ve been in the industrial sector for 30 years, and this is what I see daily!

Free trade for them, jack squat for us. My Japanese friends say they love US grown beef, and especially Jack Daniels whiskey. Can you get in there? NO! Can you set up a franchise? Good luck with that maze of perpetual denial, and bureaucracy!

First of all, I love my country and have risked my life for over 40 years of my life to it. A lot of the time risking my life for FREE. My Famley Tree GOES WAY BACK. The bottom line is, yes we need to be ever vigilant of what goes on around us, but we must also keep a sharp eye within. I have been all around the world and have met many different people. The greatest objection that the people of different lands have against Americans, is that they think they should POLICE the world, but they have such a mess at home. Rampent violent crime, swindlers, poverty, bad weather ripping the land apart, and the list goes on. We have sent all most all of our manufacturing to COMMUNIST COUNTRIES. YES IT IS ALIVE AND WELL BUT NO LONGER IN FASHION.
We change our priorities, policies, at home and abroad like a hooker changes condoms. The vast majority think only of themselves and what’s in it for them??? It was once said, ” ASK NOT WHAT YOUR COUNTRY CAN DO FOR YOU, ASK WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR YOUR COUNTRY” (JFK).
HEADARECTULITUS has alwaws proven to be TERMINAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry , HEADARECTULITUS has (always) proven to be TERMINAL!!!! Not alwaws

Maybe the US needs to stop being a superpower! Why should we be paying for everything to police the world. You can bet the world has befitted from the peace dividend we extended for them. They would never admit it, but if we pulled in our horns, you can bet they’d realize how difficult doing business would be later!

The US was no where near being top dog before WWII and we blew out all stops to get where we are now, within four years. We could do it again, as long as our defense posture against surprise attack never gets below a certain level. With that failure in the defense commo system NORAD reported the other day, you got to wonder where our priorities are!

The word politician has become so dirty even the candidates hiss between their teeth when pronouncing the word of denunciation for their opponent. One problem is decent folk don’t want to run anymore, and their is no “public service” feeling anymore. I’m not saying electing dirt poor folks to congress will solve all our problems, just changing the discourse about the system could make all the difference. We need people who DON’T want to be a politician, but have a sense of patriotic responsibility to run for office. We the people is getting worn thin here.

Perhaps we need a “draft” for public office. You have no choice to run, and you have to serve if elected; hmmm, sounds purty good to me!!! You wouldn’t have to have term limits, these folks could wait to quit!

Let us not forget, that one of the main reasons that Brazil is becoming a power player is their energy independence. Something the US congress seems uninterested in — except as a mouth piece. They love to talk the talk, but when the grass roots movements build us toward that goal, the powers that be try to stab us in the back.

Just look at how the green energy initiatives are being attacked by legislative attempts to stomp it out, fueled by big oil influence. This is especially obvious in California, but we will do what we want. I’m not letting no tin horn congressman tell me what I can use to fuel my car!!!

That’s BS Oblat. The US is NOT going to get involved in a fight between two of our friends. It is just not going to happen. The Brits can take care of them selves, and so can the Aussies, and Canadians, and the French.

We have always had a policy of trying to stay out of conflicts between two or more allies.

You don’t know what you’re talking about. The US Army already had a satellite ready to launch way before Sputnik, but had to hide it from those in power who wanted other departments to launch first. As typical — inter service/department rivalry is what bit us in the @ss.

And of course Eisenhower didn’t’ want this to get out either, as it WAS supposed to be a secret mission.

Good post; but the debt is payable; we just can’t get the political consensus to get it done. End result is the same, however. People are listening to the “Tea Party”; even when they don’t like what they hear. It will take a while to turn this ship around, but the grass roots are boiling hot to git’er-done!!

All America needs to do is elect another Democrat President with a majority in congress and the senate for one more term, then it will be katie bar the door for us, one more Clinton that gives China our missile technology with a promise from China that he knew wouldnt be kept, after giving them the technology they agreed to not use it ti spy on us (LOLOL) or use it as a means of offensive weaponry and what was the first satelite? yes, a spy satelite, then comes the announcment that they can now shoot down or destroy any satelite in orbit. Now for the present president that thinks more of being a big spending movie star that woulkd rather assign things to the czars and spent all his time on vacatiuon or in front of the cameras, he doesnt have the Balls to let our border agents fire back when fired on. My good people, these goofballs are destroying what we have fought for as long as we have existed’ now they are giving aid and assistants to the long time enemy hoping they will be a friend, isnt that a joke? china a friend? They are now buying up all the scrap metals we have while destroying us from within, meanwhile they are taking our metals and building the largest arsanal in history, and all we are doing is, borring their money that they make as we borrow.

The problem now, is NASA assets should be turned over to the private sector. They are pioneering the way to space from the commercial side. Let Dick Rutan take over NASA, and you would see a ship shape organization. AND it would be making money, instead of wasting it.!!

All of that having been said, you are failing to take the ecomomic factor into consideration. If Chinese growth continues at the current pace their economy will be approximately three times larger than that of the U.S. within the next thirty years. We have lost most of our large manufacturing base and have become dependant on many others to provide everything from mousetraps to Nuclear plants and even Millitay eqipment for us. The Chinese have locked up allmost eighty percent of the worlds mineral reasources while we have been squabbeling over major economic problems, massive unemployment, socialism and general economic chaos. Iraq and Afganistan have become an economic millstone, not to mention the loss of life and sacrifice by those in the Military who valliantly continue to serve. In my opinion this Nation is presently on the wrong course economically, Politcally and strategically and we must regain our balance and focus very, very soon or this subject will be a moot point in twenty years.

It is not the military decline but the economic decline that we can not support our military forces adequately. Keep shopping at Wal Mart and Home Depot where all the money flows to China.

A country with a large land based army and air force is just a nation. A country with a fleet of nuclear supercarriers is an empire. The US Navy can show up anywhere in the world and project overwheming firepower. There is no other nation in the world that has this capability, or the ability to develop it in the forseeable future. Nuclear powered super carriers are the Dreadnought battleships of the 21st century…and unlike the early 20th century when several nations had fleets of Dreadnought battleships only one nation on earth has a fleet of nuclear supercarriers the United States of America!

I disagree that Kennedy’s thesis in “The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers” was “total bunk.” The book was not about America, it was about great powers over the past 500 years. As I read, the stories began to run together because they shared common features. Each power rose to the top for a set of reasons, but as cycles moved, they sagged back down into the herd. In every war between single powers or coalitions, the winner — despite all romanticism — was the side with the greater industrial and population base.
Imperial overreach was a common reason why some powers aged gracefully, while others broke like a dry branch.
In the case of America, we should not sneer at historical interpretation, we should learn from it. Cycles are turning and we cannot stay at the zenith forever. But whether we adapt and decline relative to others — but remain a top player — or fail to adapt, and risk what we engineers call “catastrophic failure,” is up to our leaders, and ultimately, to us.

Interesting point. It could be argued, however, that nuclear powered super carriers (CVNs) were the Dreadnoughts of the mid-20th century, and nuclear attack subs, the Dreadnoughts of the late 20th century to the present. I’m not sure what the Dreadnought of today is, or even that you could have a Dreadnought in the age of satellite surveillance and cruise missiles. Even in the 60’s, NATO wargames showed that nuclear attack subs could slip into carrier battle groups and take out the carrier with ease (at least that’s what I’ve read.) We have never had a chance to see this happen in real life because, thank Crom, we have never had a superpower war in the CVN age. But if we did, I suspect our CVNs would prove to be floating Hindenbergs for a sophisticated enemy. Agreed, however, that they are unmatched for power projection against undefended coasts, even today.

Allanc. In my opinion, our military has been spread thin since clinton (that’s right.…small “c”) gutted it during his eight years in office. We have not recovered. Are people’s memories THAT short?

Thank Clinton and his team for allowing our manufacturing companies to go to other countries.…sweet move weren’t it. What a hero his still is.

Get ready…we’re going to a one world economy and currency…to level the playing field.

Well…I have no problem with the US spending money on defense…what’s your point?

Entitlements to whom?…Veterans? We can spend enough on Veterans, in my opinion…Veterans should come first in everything…especially in the job market and in training/education for the job market. Everyone but disabled non vets should come second.

Mike j…

1. Where do you teach?

2. The Brittish Empire is not dead. What planet do you live on?

WRONG…Clinton…not George Bush Senior.

re: “Are people’s memories THAT short?”

Think you mean “selective.” Bush 41 and SecDef Cheney are to thank for the biggest chunk of that cut, and the term “peace dividend” too. Clinton did cut it some, but it was going up again before he left– not that I’m a fan or anything, it’s the truth.

mike j…I would take your button away then kill you with my very own button. Then I’d have two buttons…of my very own.

Thanks for making my point.

Byron skinner…You should apply the following informaiton to yourself and seek help ASAP.

Narcissistic personality disorder is a condition in which there is an inflated sense of self-importance and an extreme preoccupation with one’s self.
Causes
The cause of this disorder is unknown. Narcissistic personality disorder usually begins by early adulthood.
Symptoms
A person with narcissistic personality disorder:

•Reacts to criticism with rage, shame, or humiliation
•Takes advantage of other people to achieve his or her own goals
•Has feelings of self-importance
•Exaggerates achievements and talents
•Is preoccupied with fantasies of success, power, beauty, intelligence, or ideal love
•Has unreasonable expectations of favorable treatment
•Requires constant attention and admiration
•Disregards the feelings of others, lacks empathy
•Has obsessive self-interest
•Pursues mainly selfish goals
Tests & diagnosis
Personality disorders are diagnosed based on a psychological evaluation and the history and severity of the symptoms.

No he’s not.

here, & earth

The decline continues every time the socialist democratic party is given the helm.

Tom…BINGO!!!

f*ckoooff… idiots

You can say that, but you gave up your personal guns, didn’t you!? Who will save you from your enemies or even yourselves now?

HA! I’m out in the middle of a dessert and two Ospreys flew over the other day! Out in the middle of no where! Naw! We ain’t going downhill!!! No way! Not yet! Let’s see what happens next Tuesday — then we will decide!

What and destroy their political base? Tisk! Tisk! Who would vote for the poor scoundrels then?

You mean our government has capitulated. The grass roots is going around the government, just like they always do in the US. This is what the Chinese fear! They are attacking our technical assets, and intellectual property, and the government could care less. They want the middle class to fail, so we will be serfs to their bidding. It matters not what party they are, it is all the same!

Don’t forget — if the dollar crashes, so does the value of the debt the Chinese hold!

Not only that, but the world would be after cheap US labor because of the difference in currency value. Whee! We got a job!!

I think Regan would have promoted the individual; we will never give up. We could care less if the government fails, because we ARE the government! We can do without Washington, and that is what pisses off the powers that be!

I feel sorry for the Chinese citizen. No matter what class they are in. The Chinese will never admit just how much they depend on the West. To do so would be a big loss of face. It will never happen, unless their is a huge financial collapse. I hate to say it, but dictatorship will be the last thing that saves their butts when that happens.

Afterward — the great killing will begin. The great patriotic war will look like a picnic!

Ha! You funny! I almost gave you a thumbs up! Maybe later! =D

I blame a lot of that on the unions. They didn’t even try to promote how they were going to increase production for the company, or increase profits. And we can! I’ve seen it all in 30 years of industrial work. I’m a union man, but I have a right to work too! We need to kick the idiots out of the unions, or go right to work all the way– just like the Midwest states.

Heh, my father once had an idea like that. You would get a notice in the mail saying “Congratulations, you are a now a US Senator.” and your first thought would be “Oh shit.” But that is the point. You wouldn’t have people being career politicians.

HA! That is almost as bad as my company suggesting I be First Sergeant! I broke out in a cold sweat! But I was the only one with the college hours.

Thank God Desert Storm came along and they forgot all about me!

I knew I’d wig out at the responsibility for my fellow soldier in a combat zone. I don’t mind fighting, but I could never live my life knowing I made a mistake against my comrades!

This is exactly why I thought the VTOL capability of the F-35 was so important! The huge carrier platform is economical in peace; but in war, I’m afraid it is obsolete. Especially with tin horns like Korea and Iran. One nuke and the carrier is a can opened sardine can.

Let us hope the Navy has something up their sleeve if that happens!

In many ways many of the things the USA has done are for humanity’s benefit as well, however I really question the way US forces have been used since Vietnam, and generally after comunism collapsed.
The moral compass has been lost and all the good things done for example during WWII almost undone.
And you are right, maybe Europe with a population mass comparable to the USA should help with world security instead of sitting on the fenceline and letting the USA do everything. At the same time the whole world is paying for what the US military is doing,

JC:

from a previous post of mine:
How is the USA continue to be a superpower if it is in debt to the tune of $13,672,240,988,492.71.
See this: http://​www​.brillig​.com/​d​e​b​t​_​c​l​o​ck/
The estimated population of the United States is 309,342,028
so each citizen’s share of this debt is $44,197.81.
The National Debt has continued to increase an average of
$4.17 billion per day since September 28, 2007!

That amount is huge in any language for a person with a normal salary, and unpayable for milions of poor disavantaged USA citizens. It would take say 10 years paying 4,000 year per person to clear it. obviously babies and not working people will take mach longer! The problem is that the debt continues to increase with virtually no way of stopping it. I just do not believe repaying it is possible and the USA could default within the next 5 years based as some analysts are predicting.

Amen to that…you have hit the nail directly on its head.

S/F Gordon

A minor point, JC — the F-35 is not VTOL, but STOVL (short take-off, vertical landing).

And to you, Australia — on yer bike, mate!

Giive the guy a chance. He walks into an economic mess and is expected to have it all rosy in half a term. Faced with intense citicism from those who expect him to pull a rabbit out of a hat, he has successfull averted economic disaster and proceeds to try and work on restoring the total economy. This will not happen over night. It would help if he has a little support instead of all the muslim lies and birth certificate debates. He is trying his best folks, expect it will take some time. Lets not return to the policies that produced the mess and quit voting for the cutsie people with the quirky smiles or the short mini skirts with whom you would like to have a beer and who had ruined several companies. Look for brains and dedication, then appreciate and it and give them a break timewise.

I’m not happy with my party being the party of NO! I wished I really knew what really happens in the back halls of congress, so I’d know who shut out who. But I’m tired of my party offering no solutions. I can’t blame the Democrats for going it alone with no one posing a better or at least opposing idea.

However, if the accusations of no interaction are true, then I can’t feel sorry for the opposition for trying to shut out the other side. I want to punish my representatives this election, I’m voting Libertarian. At least it is a vote of no confidence!

Other than the inevitable fact that democracies get stupid leaders from time to time, and we have no stable foreign policy as a result; it is probably the special interests that wag the tail of the dog here now. That is never going to be good; and we are politically revolting to that reality. It isn’t just the “Tea Party” that is in this grass roots movement. Our government rarely does what we the people see as righteous, but we have to wait at least two years to attempt to correct the mistake.

I think it is a bad deal that folks in other lands assume that because our foreign policy is bad, that we are as bad, as well. When we, the people find out about it and express our outrage, it is already too late. Since true democratic republics are not the norm, I imagine folks everywhere don’t understand this. Americans have never looked at the people of a country as a problem, only the dictators who are doing wrong. We understand that, and dont hold the people responsible after the conflict is over.

We in the US get blamed for bad policy whether we supported said policy or not. Just reality I suppose! :(

Lamentably, the limits of American power were exposed for all to see via gross misuse of our armed forces, a multitude of foreign policy disasters unprecendented in American history, and a complete failure to manage spending or paying attention to sound, conservative financial principals (so much for fiscal conservatism — now instead of “tax and spend” — the normal method of how government works, we now have “borrow and spend” as a “conservative” principal). The strength of the United States comes from a potent middle class and therefore economic power (a principal left far behind a decade ago).

The CBO reports that 95% of the deficit today culls from 2 completely unfunded wars, an unfunded corporate welfare program (Medicare Part D), and tax breaks for the wealthiest .02% of Americans.

Back in the 80s, we are supposed to be speaking Japanese right now.

So we ACTUALLY show restraint (the reality you acknowledge) but what matters is what other nations perceive? You just have written a foreign policy doomed to failure. How can we possibly take into account the feelings of every other nation and maintain a coherent strategic posture that our friends and allies can count on.

But besides that your premise is wrong. If your premise was correct would Libya have voluntarily given up its WMD’s after the invasion of Iraq? By your premise they would have redoubled their efforts to produce such weapons “shown resistance” to use your words.

Well tangentially speaking if a child sees an F-22 at an air show and says I want to be an aerospace engineer then, maybe it will.

While I agree with your post for the most part demographics/economics can be incredibly complex variables to project into the future. Right now the US has the most favorable demographic trend lines of any western nation with higher immigration along with higher native birthrates. Will that translate into long term economic expansion able to support the growing welfare state and a “possibly” growing defense budget? I’m not smart enough to answer that question.

The US can also choose to leverage its huge economy (assuming it can get back on track). If the US added just another 1% of GDP to defense it would be spending another $140 billion/year on top of current spending. That would more than double today’s procurement budget.

Actually it does work that way. Go to AIAA’s website and look at the members “when did you know” at the top of the page. Almost to a person they say something like, “When a saw an airplane, or a rocket launch, etc. I wanted to be an engineer (or scientist, etc)”. These are real world examples.

You don’t think there are a few thousand scientists and engineers who watched Apollo launches and Neil Armstrong and said “I want to do that”?

No I’m saying that a nations scientific and technological achievements can inspire the youths of this nation to educational excellence. In many areas the military is on the forefront of technology.

I also think you are exaggerating how Americans think about the military. No doubt with a majority of people it is a source of great pride but with a certain percentage there is an absolute loathing of the military. The US has always been a very cautious superpower far from a militaristic nation like Germany or Japan in the first half of the 20th century.

There has never been in the history of mankind a nation that has the disparate power as compared to other nations as the United States and has used that power so sparingly. If the US truly exercised its military power why would we not say “the Middle East is ours” and oil is now $5/barrel? Or better yet march into Canada and take over the Alberta oilsands (as big reserves as Saudi Arabia)? Or how about, “Hey China import as much as you export or we’ll nuke you.”

Do you think that Iranian leaders would be so bold with their anti-US/Israeli pronouncements if politicians gave the military “carte blanche”? Could we not wipe North Korea off the face of the earth in 30 minutes?

We are currently fighting two wars and yet the cost of these wars even added to the baseline defense budget is causing us to spend (or consume if you prefer) just over 5% of the annual wealth production of the US, this is hardly making us a poorer nation. How did we get to this point spending less over the last 20 years as a percentage of the economy than the first 40 years of the Cold War and end up a poorer nation? It is an opposite causation to the numerical correlation. Or simply your premise is belied by the facts.

*required

NOTE: Comments are limited to 2500 characters and spaces.

By commenting on this topic you agree to the terms and conditions of our User Agreement