Russia’s hollow force

Russia’s hollow force

Every couple of months, a top Russian leader makes a bold proclamation: We’re back. We’ve got a new SSBN, we’re going to build a new fleet of aircraft carriers, we’ve got new tactical aircraft so stealthy one just landed on the White House lawn. Accordingly, the headlines crackle all over the world: Cold War II! Russia Vows Major Arms Buildup In Challenge to West! The Bear Has Returned!

Then, once the rumpus dies down, nothing happens. The ‘resurgent Russia’ storyline gets packed away for the next time a Tu-95 buzzes an American warship at sea, or a top official in Moscow throws a little fit over the mean ol’ West and its mean ol’ ambitions for missile defense. (An external boogeyman remains politically useful in the new Russia.) If you needed any more evidence that The Bear is Not Back, check out this Wall Street Journal report, which depicts the deep dysfunction of the once-mighty Russian forces. Part of it tells the story of a Russian soldier who volunteered for what he thought would be an elite unit only for high-speed operators, not time-serving draftees. What kind of spooky missions did commanders assign to young Sergei Fetisov and his compatriots? Shoveling snow. Or there was this:

Officers were under instruction to recruit as many new volunteers as possible. Mr. Fetisov says they resorted to an unusual recruiting technique: Nearly every night at 11 that first winter, conscripts were mustered on the parade ground and made to stand in formation for hours, facing superiors who sometimes were drunk.


“Finally an officer would say, ‘Those willing to sign contracts, you’re dismissed. The rest of you, stay at attention,’” Mr. Fetisov recalls. “A personnel officer would tell stories about the great treatment contract soldiers get. They had to stand there in the cold until at least two or three men agreed to sign,” Mr. Fetisov says. “This went on for weeks, but they never got 100%” of the regiment on contract.

The Journal’s report isn’t the first to detail the decrepit state of today’s Russian military, but it is the latest that does not connect the reality of the Russian military with the Bear Is Back effect it regularly has in Washington and other capitals. Before the J-20 sucked all the oxygen out of the foreign-fighter department, remember how people freaked out about the debut of the T-50? The term “Raptorski’ was coined — though rejected by Bill Sweetman — and people began to worry about the T-50’s “stealthogenic” active cloaking system, which could supposedly render the jet undetectable by ejecting “plasma” over its skin. Observers were worried about revolutionary, Star Trek-level capabilities from a military that still relies on creaky old Soviet equipment. There’s no reason not to take Russia seriously, but there is every reason to at least treat it realistically.

It’s kind of poignant, in a way, that so many people in Washington and around the world continue to have such respect for Russian military might. Russia is a potential adversary we know very well, and which reminds us of a time that was as dangerous as our own, or more, but which at least was a little simpler to understand.

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But this goes contrary to everything that APA preaches.

If taxpayers start paying attention to reality and not wishful thinking and bogeyman projections who will we have to be afraid of?

The problem is the Russians have more heavy Weapons/fire Power them the entire Europe NATO. For example the European part of the NATO has not enough ammunition to fight a 4 Week War against Libya ! Our many Russian Corvettes for example have more offensive Fire Power them a DDG51 and the Russians get rely more for the money them the West. For Example a Russian SSBN costs only 0, 7 Billion and have 20 SLBMs and I can give you X-more examples. In the Moment the Russians are not back but them Obama has slashed the DOD the Russians will be back!

Probably cost more than 0.7 billion, but either way a good portion of that workforce is probably drunk on vodka most of the day.

Get back to us when the Russkies can launch a Bulava missile with something better then 50% chance of complete failure. Let’s see, the Trident D-5 has had 135 (ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY FIVE) consecutive…CONSECUTIVE succesful launches. And I would take an Arleigh-Burke class DDG-51 AEGIS Destroyer over anything single vessel currently floating in the Russian Navy.

Hahahahaha

Sorry but the Bulava is only one SLBM Project of the Russians they have also the Sineva she is comparable with the Trident II and also effective. But yes the Russian have problem with is Bulava missiles but not with it SSBNs and sorry see what problems the USA have with all is Programs is simple impossible to find an only US Program how are in Plan.

And is also real, many Russia corvettes and frigates are more advance and stronger firepower against over Ships them our Submarines them a DDG51 for example the Steregushchiy the is comparable with the LCS but have 8x P-800 Oniks Fks (the world’s deadliest FK what exist) and 8 x 324mm torpedo tubes. And the Russians have also Kirov class battle cruiser how carries more fire power them the entire German Navy and more them 4 DDG51. And the Russian spent 1/10 what the US DOD spent but they get many thinks significantly cheaper and better them the US.

The deferens is simple the Russian prepare you for a war against the US our NATO, the Russians invest their money in deadly Weapons of mass Destruction, heavy Anti-Ship Weapons, heavy Armor Divisions and advance Air defense. In contrast the United States are obsessively plan for Asymmetric conflicts ant the was not in 30 in able to replace the Harpoons our Tomahawk Missile with a Modern FK.

stop reading washington post
France and GB have 3 times the military budget of russia.
If russia was so powerful, why they buy armored vehicule to italy and france? why they will buy french ships? why their new weapon programs was only old project or one simple upgrade?
75% of russian army was so old , they need to dissimulate them in the middle of siberia (remember tanks cimetary)
They have ended the reparation of one ship after 20 years, they ending one submarine after 20 years, they was to rich, they need buy fake s-400 (using air for give the form of one launcher) or others “weapons of power?
Russia was over

Not really but also the US Workworce how build the LPD17 our the LCS 1 must have been drunk them the build this ships. The Problem is the US Navy pai more for a LCS them the russians for a Destroyers our two modern SSKS.

But the Russians Navy have more High End Ship them France and GB and Italy jointly. The have a 5 times bigger Army them and 15X more tanks them France and GB jointly and more real fire power them the entire Europe NATO.

All people see on the money but the this sad nothing about the power of an Army, you not fight wars with money you fight wars with Weapons like Jets, Submarines, tanks, destroyer and over heavy things. France has only 13 Frigates and nine of the have a low firepower. The Russians have more those 24 Destroyers and Frigates and 68 Corvettes with strong offensive fire power. Other Example the French Navy has 7 small SSNs with outdated Technology the Russians have 15 modern SSN and 6 SSGN and also 18 modern SSKs and more SSN und SSKs in production our test.

The Russian military may be decrepit but they still have nukes.….and a LOT of them. And the US would like to see a nuke-free world?? Good Luck with that. For now.….they are the only country that has enough fire-power to destroy the US mulitple times over.

“Be careful above all things not to let go of the atomic weapon until you are sure, and more than sure, that other means of preserving peace are in your hands.” — Winston Churchill, 1952 address to US Congress

Russia still has a very strong scientific and engineering community. They can crank up larger volume production of weapons if they feel threatened. I agree with the Russian emphasis has on a strong Army. The US needs to observe and learn, Army first.

A country only needs about 200 nuclear warheads. Beyond that, the cost of additional nuclear warheads and delivery systems weakens the US. The money spent on vast quantities of excessive nuclear weapons, should instead be invested in conventional weapon systems. Or on going back to the moon, which the Russians are now firmly on a path to do.

I think that things are getting a bit distorted.

First I’d like to point out that the official firepower and/or budget expenditures do not tell how effective the military really is. If you have such a lack of discipline and pride that your officers are drunk on duty and they’re using coercive methods to get soldiers to sign contracts — it is unlikely that those who are in charge (or those under their command) are going to effectively employ the weaponry. The key is not how much firepower you have but how effective that firepower is.

Closely related is the reason for the military. If a country does not plan to project power globally then they don’t need weaponry/platforms with a global reach — and should not obtain them. If they do want to project power globally, then they have to be able to project the proper amount of force at the proper time. Nukes with global reach don’t mean all that much for most power projection situations because they are a single form of destruction on a massive scale — when minute force in a very tiny location might get far preferable results.

But one can’t ignore the fact that there are various methods of projecting power. So the U.S. uses bases scattered about as well as carriers and nukes (yes, I know there are others). One can, however, use basing agreements or regional encroachments and/or alliances to project power in the region of interest. That means that you can use weaponry of normally limited reach based in the area of interest to influence events in just the areas you need to touch.

At the moment all Russia needs to do is to fight some Chechens, build reactors in Iran, sell weaponry to Gaddafi, etc. At a low cost they are still able to influence world events by utilizing deceit, chicanery, duplicity, and being willing to closely associate with the dregs of the Earth. Who really needs to have a big military when you can let the U.S. fight where you want them, you can block the U.S. wherever you want by simply vetoing their actions in the Security Council (since the U.S. actually cares what that council says)?

Understand that I’m not advocating for his election, but if you put someone with Trump’s attitude in the White House the Russians would start working on having a really effective military. Right now they don’t need one. (And if you still wonder, I don’t want Trump for POTUS .)

Tend to disagree on the money issue and how nukes weaken the US. The US spends far less on nukes than it does on its conventional weapon systems (i.e. F-35 and the one vs. two engine debate). The money that is being spent now on nukes is purely life extenstion programs and “chump change” compared to other programs in the budget.

burn your soviet paper, and see the reality…
I’m sure you read only wikipedia, but when you see 5000 tanks in one paper, you need see if they was able to be used, need see the age of them, their capacity.Planes and ship to.
all russian ship was rusted, this is not one hazard if i say they need 20 years for upgrade one of them, that’s not because they make one super ship.cimetary of tanks to, they was not retired in the paper.
You ar one victim who imaigne all chiffer than real.
Remember georgian conflict, why do you mean russia will modernize all the army? because they was perfect and superior?

he West always underestimated Russia It was Hitler who said all” you have to do is kick in the door and the whole rotting thing would fall in.” Well we all know what happed in 45. The French under Naploian said the same thing they lost BIG time.

The west always says Russian MiG-XXs and SU-XXs and AKs and T-XX are so poor and never can take our superior forces on. There in a dream world, As they based Georgia two years ago they weren’t routed like some radio and TV host said by the western support Georgian military the Russian routed them. Yes conditions for solders are poor compared to troops living in the USA or UK BUT there NOT a western army and if you look at China which the demagogic morons are scare and fearing up all the time they show poor living conditions too so that may mean nothing.

Sorry but i am not a fan of the Russians, really I am against them but you must see their Power and possibilities the remain the greatest real tread for the US interest and there Military is real stronger them the entire NATO Europe.

The Russians have belong 6000 MBTs (the US have no more) from them more them 1000 MBTs are T90 and the have over 10.000–15.000 MBTs in Depots and the reserve. France has about 400 tanks, GB about 300 tanks and Germany have decided to slash there MBT fleet to 200 tanks and Italia has also only less them 300 tanks. Now the Four great Powers of the European NATO have a MBT Fleet from less them 1200 tanks, the Russians have also six times more active tanks them the four important Europe NATO States. The Russian Navy is also stronger them the complete joint Europe Navy’s and the RU AF remain the second largest Air force in the World.

The problem is simple, the Russians have sot the must of is soviet power but the Europeans has slashes there defense to fiancés there welfare programs much more them the Russians have lost in consequence of the collapse of the Soviet empire. A over example the German Air Force will have 2020 not more them 160–180 Fighters (131 EF2000 and 40–60 old Tornados) in 1991 the German Air Force was 700 Fighter strong.

All Warhead Numbers belong 1000 warheads are not First Strike prov. Sorry but the idea of a nuclear free world is the dangerous and stupid thing what I have ever heard. The Russians way have belong 8.000 Warheads in there reserve and the will maintain how many from them how is possible. The idea of a nuclear free world is only a US idea the Russians reduced his arsenals only to a level how they can maintain. For the Russians the absolute minimum was 1550 Warheads plus 600– 800 not counted Warheads on the Engels Air force Base and 2000–3000 tactical Warheads the US have only 200 of the m active.

With Over Words the Russians will have under Obamas “New Start” more active Warheads as under Busch START Treaty with over Words the Russians will maintain 2200–2400 active Strategic Warheads and 2000 – 3000 tactical Warheads under the NEW START.

Hitler underestimated the Soviet Union. But then, Hitler was not very good at war. He should have been able to defeat the Soviets fairly handily but he did some stupid things.

So far as a comparison between our fighters and theirs? Unless the Russians have overwhelming numbers, given adequate logistics they just won’t do very well against our aircraft. This is not to diminish the value of the Russian military, but they would not do well against our better trained and equipped Air Force. And our ground forces are also more effective.

But the Russians don’t NEED to be able to defeat our forces. We’re exceedingly unlikely to ever attack them. The Russians need to be able to defeat the Chechens, keep Putin in power, and keep lining the pockets of the politicians. The kind of ability that we require of our forces is not the same as that required of the Russian military — and, to be blunt, a military as professional as ours would not be tolerated by the current Russian regime.

I meet you 1/2 way Saying Hitler was a idiot.

As for fighter vs fighter the Indians proved the MiG-29 is far superior to the F-16 in several engagements of Pakistani F-16s over Kasmer and chased them into Pakistani air space. And in joint NATO engagements Russian and Ukrainian MiG-29s and SU-27s have been able to kill Navy F-18C-F models in simulated combat. And the Russian train all the time in dogfights something we abandoned in the post 9/11 Military. As per tanks the T-80 can easily come up against the M-1 or Leopard in combat. The Russian for year are only keeping rather small numbers of T-80s for use while relighting on inferior and easier to build T-72/90 tanks which M-1A1s can eat for dinner in large numbers.

I say the US should never attack Russian internist think how good we are and expect a easy Libya style war. We could get our buts kicked in a pinch.

If you want to make fun of evil armature think Libyan rebels or China.

stop eating stupid russian propaganda.You talk about tank, but one tank was not one tank, this is not one reference.I say see the technology of them, what’s libyan tank against NATO planes? we don’t need another tank for destroy them, yes or no?
Why do you mean russia have change shis strategy, they will reduces the number of their tank to 2000 (not all who was equiped with new technology).They only start one modern army now, 20 years after western country.For you 2000 sheman (ww2) wa ssimilar to the last abram’s or leopard tank? certainly not, russian old tank wa ssimilar, but when they make parade you see only what they would give to the world.
Their new planes, come 1 after 1, they have approx 100 new planes (not the better technology ) all others was totally old, but if for you one f-4 phantom was similar to one f-22, ok, in this situation one plane was one plane.
Need to know many modern system was mad eby foreign firm, when they sell mig-29, you have french firm who have give their stuff.

I can continue all days, because i know the reality of russian army, and i don’t take propaganda paper of them, and i know one old tank can’t be compared against one new tank (planes ans others stuff to)
Russian can’t be to powerful with one budget inferior to france, and when 1/3 of the budeget go to nuclear military sector.
Have you see previous russian rearmament program (2000–2010), when they say (i take only marine) : “we go buy 17 new frigates, 19 new submarine”, today 2 frigates has be delivred (one retarded to 2012, aml gorshkov), 3 submarine was delivred (one retarded to 2012), just imagine the future and the reality of russia today

Actually, you’re wrong about the US abandoning dogfight training. Our fighter pilots still train for dogfighting… at least I know the USAF does, though I’m sure the USN does too. Many of our exercises show that there are still many chance occurances of aircraft closing to gun range, within the minimum engagement distance of our older AIM-9’s for aircraft not equipped with the newer AIM-9X and JHMCS.

The exercises you’re referring to in which Russian-designed MiG-29’s displaying short-range engagement advantages occured in the early 90’s after the fall of the USSR and when Germany was reunited. MiG-29’s from the former Western Germany were used to conduct these exercises. However this information is now outdated after the AIM-9X and JHMCS programs have successfully been deployed, which now closes the gap. Russian MiG-29/35 and Su-27/30/35 fighters no longer enjoy the short-range advantage they used to; even for all their extreme maneuverability, they cannot outmaneuver higher g-capable missiles (9g fighter versus 18+g missiles) nor can they maneuver beyond the 180-degree engagement range of a less maneuverable F-15 or F-16 equipped with the JHMCS/AIM-9X combo.

Also, the Russians haven’t upgraded their more numerous T-80 fleet since 1990. But they did make demonstrators of updated T-80’s. Recently they’ve been moving from the T-80 to the T-90 as their standard MBT. This is evidenced by the fact that the T-90 has been seeing more modernization programs the past two decades and that upgrade deliveries have still been occurring as recently as 2007. The T-80, on the other hand, has seen their active numbers drop drastically with no new deliveries or upgrade contracts in two decades.

I also forgot to mention that because of the lack of upgrades, the T-80 has become outdated compared to the M1. It’s really the T-90 that could potentially stand toe-to-toe with the M1.

Russia has thousands of nuclear weapons. Enough said.

The vast majority of which are in storage and unmaintained. It would take a long time to make them operational.

need to know russian army sell their planes with the help of french firm (thales,sagem…).They give optronics and some technology for was in the same level than others.
Theirs tanks to, IR system or some others things don’t was russian, and only 250 tanks was modernized, don’t imagine they have 10 000 tanks upgraded.The air force have only few modern fighter, but you see only them, all others (90%) was totally old.
Russia was in the top in 2 sector, ground-air missile (s-300,s-400…) and for making soviet helicopte model

This post is merely inspired by a crap, one dimensional and subjective view by WSJ. As a result this post is also crap. Their standards must be slipping. With a couple of contacts with very recent military experience in Russia all I can do is shake my head. Yes there are issues in the defense forces of Russia but the distortions are laughable, and there are some larger societal issues which have more of an effect than the state of the military or their policies. How can one tell its biased — ill give you just one example — the description of the Russian invasion of Georgia as ‘clumsy’. I cant be bothered redressing the inaccuracies but as the old saying goes, dont believe everything you read.

But without the threat of a reformed and re-armed Russia, how would we justify half of the go-nowhere “modernization” programs in the Defense Budget?

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