Post and riposte in the great carrier debate

Post and riposte in the great carrier debate

The great sea battles of the 21st century don’t take place in the ocean. They take place online, and in the professional journals of today’s naval thinkers, and they usually involve attacks upon or defenses of the great white whale of American naval power: The nuclear-powered aircraft carrier. Just today, in fact, some of the Web’s top commodores of thought have been squaring off over the roles and futures of aircraft carriers, a never-ending debate in the saltier quarters of the national security world.

Today’s opening salvo was fired by Thomas P.M. Barnett at Time’s Battleland blog. He quotes a piece in the new edition of the Naval Institute’s Proceedings in which the authors argue that the era of the supercarrier is over. China has a super mega lightning-bolt death missile, you see, that can damage or sink an American carrier anywhere it tries to operate in the Western Pacific, and as such the ship is basically useless in a World War III scenario. That, plus carriers’ high costs and tomorrow’s profusion of unmanned naval aircraft, means the U.S. Navy should stop building carriers and start building more big-deck amphibious ships like the USS Makin Island, which can field F-35B Lightning IIs (we hope) as well as Marine helicopters, theoretical UAVs, and a whole bunch of Marines and their green gear.

Bryan McGrath, responding at Information Dissemination, disagrees: Why are gators any less vulnerable than carriers? he asks. Why is it a carrier’s fault that the Navy doesn’t have the right kind of long-range, stealthy aircraft you’d need for a China scenario? Doesn’t it make sense that in a UAV future, carriers are even more important, given how flexible they can be about handling both fixed and rotary-wing, piloted and pilotless, aircraft?


It’s terrific sport — both posts are worth reading.

Here’s another quick point: Military thinkers often assume that the carrier-killer missile immediately knocks all ships out of play the first time, every time, so they conclude the carrier is obsolete. But even if the weapon works as feared, this is like saying that the helicopter gunship made the tank obsolete, or the submarine made the surface ship obsolete. Innovations like these changed the game, but they didn’t change the basic need for heavy vehicles with treads and big guns, or fast warships that can patrol for pirates. Assuming the death missile is all it’s cracked up to be, it would mean commanders need to reevaluate how they use carriers and their air wings, not that they might as well be scrapped. There’ll still be plenty of peacetime and wartime uses for aircraft carriers for as long as they’re around.

What do you think?

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AirSea Battle is going to focus on blinding the eyes of the PLA and their super-powerful carrier killing ballistic missiles. If you blind your enemy, even his most precise weapon can’t harm you.

Good Afternoon Folks,

This argument opens with two false assumptions. First that China and the US are going to war, neither country has shown any desire for that. The second and the persistent myth of those peculiar institutions of winger tanks and the butternuts who sponsor them is that China has an anti-ship ballistic missile and that such a weapon if it existed could sink a US Carrier. Neither of these assumptions can be supported with a shred of evidence.

To answer the question regarding nuclear carriers, the French Carrier de Gualle more then answered that in the recent deployment to Libya. Yes. The nuclear carrier is worth the money.

A nuclear carrier can go in and stay on station as long as it can be supplied with groceries, aviation fuel and ordinance. A conventionality powered carrier would have to break every four to five days and be refueled at sea. This break off station gives the enemy a breather as well as the refueling efforts provide a ripe target for enemy air.

The next project for the USN should be nuclear powered Cruisers to provide on station protection as well as the ability of the USN to put out a robust Cruiser Strike Group.

As seen in the Yellow Sea last Fall with the GW Strike Group arrived. even spoiled children like NKorea run and hide , when a US CSG shows up the neighborhood gets very quiet. The CSG is the most effective and CHEAPEST projection of US power we have. The French reaffirmed that in Libya.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

Umm, so-called military / naval pundits have been harping about the demise of the super-carrier even before the Nimitz class was first launched. Obviously, the US Navy disagrees, and the Ford Class of CVNs are already in production. As long as counter-measures (electronic and kinetic) for anti-ship missiles keep pace with the threat, the CVN will be as secure as it has always been. And no, I am not saying any ship is 100% secure…but a CVN, protected by AEGIS destroyers and SSNs, not to mention it’s onboard close-in defense systems (e.g. Phalanx, Dynamic Armor, etc.) will remain one of the most deadly and survivable warships on the seas.

The only certainty about the future is that it is UNCERTAIN. Therefore it is foolish to commit vast, unknown amounts of resources into an INTENDED strategy because then you will have less resources with which to adapt to EMERGING problems. China should not be the driving force behind how we develop our intended strategy. Clauswitz’s wise advice to us is to first be strong, then strong at the decisive point. Our force structure is BROKE and UNSUSTAINED. We need to FIX and sustain our current force structure, and NEVER lose capabilities as we modernize. We should modernize using incremental improvements to our capabilities, platforms, and organizations, getting stronger and stronger, vs the current crap strategy of developing exotic gold plated late, overbudget, underperforming, operationally unsuitable platforms that serve the business model of INDUSTRY, and not the strategic defense of our nation.

To sacrifice supercarrier capability for the World War 3 scenario in which we lose our supercarriers to Chinese super missiles is STUPIDITY. Such a scenario, the loss off a US aircraft carrier to a Chinese super missile, ends in NUCLEAR WAR, in which case its too late — it doesn’t matter how many “big deck amphibious” carriers you got.

Hoorah.. Ain’t nothin 100%, except for the lies in industry marketing materials. Our weapons all serve political purposes. Aircraft carriers accomplish and will continue to accomplish political (national security) objectives regardless of vulnerability to Chinese super missiles.

According to the article, http://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2011–05… :

The screwed-up/expensive/short ranged F-35C, EMALS , and DF-21 doom large carriers but somehow…

F-35B and UCLASS are the saviors of LHAs

1. The F-35B is even more screwed up and more expensive than the F-35C. It also has significantly less range, so if the C has too little range…

2. If DF-21 can defeat a CVN it will also defeat an LHA.

3. UCLASS is not going to replace a manned aircraft for AA/AD attack anytime soon.

continued
4. I would agree that the LHA as a strike platform combined with an F-35B (if it ever actually works and it doesn’t melt the boat) and a UCLASS (if designed for that Ship) would be a potent capability for situations like Somolia, Yemen etc. but it will be too vulnerable and too short legged to be effective in the scenarios used to discredit the CVN. Thus the USN would only project power in the 3rd world.

5. In my opinion, If you are going to be credible against countries like China, you will need new weapons to take down & survive the IADS and you willl still need PAYLOADS and SORTIES that cannot be generated with this “option”. It would also be insane to become more dependent on the already too risky/expensive F-35B.

I honestly can’t believe anyone is looking at Barnett for a useful opinion anyway. He’s the Tom Friedman of defense writers; completely superficial “analysis” in everything he writes.

For all you “fixed base” types out there answers these question

–what is the most well protected 5 acres of US real estate anywhere?
–what is fastest ship in the fleet?
–what can project power anywhere in the world “without permission?“
–what do you have, in the event of a major war, when your forward bases are wiped out in the first few minutes of real shooting war?
–what platform has “everything” in one package: strike, air-defense, AEW, SEAD, ASW, etc
–what puts “fear” in the hear of our enemies by simply showing up?

now you understand why we need carriers

i think more work should be done on harder-to-jam uav transmit links which would constitute the bulk of the carriers’ fleet. the rest would be a golden bullet in the form of super-stealthy f/a-xx for the initial cleanup. the uavs are cheaper to operate and can bomb just as good as the manned ac.
a couple of those bullets could provide overwatch for the uavs on a strike mission or they (uav) could deploy the MALI, backed by an awacs if need be to engage the aerial threat during the mission.

Well said. And the money issue is overblown. It’s true that $15 billion is real money but we would spend a heck of a lot more if the Mid East’s oil was shut off. Plus that $15 billion creates a ton of jobs and tax revenue and technology. For us, the only thing more expensive then a new CVN is no CVN.

Cost will make this argument mute as time goes on given the Navies budget challenges.

Does it make sense to make ever costlier super carriers in the numbers we have when their range is currently being negated by stand off weapons? The cost of losing one of these things is hard to fathom.

Moreover, the Navy is having trouble paying for things like subs, which one could argue are more relevant to dealing with China than a carrier.

I’m more of a fan of small and light forces, but as Byron points out it is not at all clear that the touted ship-killer missiles are anything more than vaporware. I’m much more worried about what a good submarine can do to a supercarrier and its escorts.

The supercarriers have unique capabilities and can be valued for that. They’re not irrelevant and I’ve yet to see good evidence that they are sitting ducks, but I also don’t think that they are the best value. But then, when the Navy tries to do the small/light thing that I like we end up with the very expensive LCS…

China has a “a super mega lightning-bolt death missile” so we build a “a super mega lightning-bolt death anitmissile missile” and directed energy weapons to shoot it down.

Agreed, when the AEGIS BMD system is fully operational, the carriers should be as safe as they were before the Chinese carrier killer ballistic missile was developed.

When the USSR was active, their Backfire bombers with their AshM were a very real and very dangerous threat, but we had a plan for it, and we didn’t “retire” the carrier fleet then simply because the Russians had this awesome and REAL capability. In fact we had plan for deploying carriers very near to their shores in the event of a major war.

Right now, the Chinese threat is vaporware and even if it was real I’m sure we are working on countermeasures.

What is going on?

First you have this authors totally [insert derogatory word of choice] “The Air Force sings the Raptor blues” then there is THIS (while utterly pointless) piece where the author [as if a REAL journalist wrote it] brings forth both sides of the ‘issue’ and the really killer, brings for the absurdity of the ‘debate’.

Just as puzzling is that you have the normally living in an alternate universe of their own making Byron Skinner & Weaponhead amazingly joining reality & making good, valid posts.

I think that the when the aircraft carrier made the battleship obsolete, the proliferation of anti-ship missiles and aircraft plus a whole host of anti-ship weapons that it creates an atmosphere in which any surface vessle would have a hard time surviveing in the modern era. The submarine on the other hand is probably the stealthyist platform ever made and there for the most survivable platform there is. the earths surface is 80% water so that is a large operating area. With the tomahawks and torpidos and also the ability to transport SEAL teams it truly is a force to be reckoned with.. I think that half of our resources should be used toward building more subs, better torpidos and better and more forms of attack platforms for our submarines I read all the time that different countries such as france and India are building better torpidios and sub-launched antiship missiles , and the USA nothing. I don’t care how much stealth you have on a surface ship if it can be seen it can be sunk.

Forget all these LCS ships, aircraft carriers, and DDG-51s ships,and any surface ship for that matter ‚we are wasting our resources . Once any surface ship is fond an enemy can just overwhelm a ships defenses and there goes a valued asset.
We build the best submarines in the world, they are quieter and have the best acustic sensors on them , we just need to build better torpedoes and offensive weapons and they will be unstopable. A super-cavitating
torpedoes, and a supersonic cruise missile for ships and land targets would be great. It’s time for the MK48 adcap to go. retro fit a few more ohio class boomers to carry tomahawks and design a new SSBM,plus we need about 50 more Virginia-class attack subswould be a very wise use on our limited resources. lets not forget our enemies are working very hard at building up their sub forces. (Russians & China)

Things seem to be going smoothly with the X-47, and really that is just a prototype with some already pretty impressive specs. 1500 nmi un-refueled combat radius, same stealthy internal bomb load as a F35, aerial re-fueling. I’m not sure with a prototype like that flying why anyone would draw the conclusion super carriers are done. If anything our carriers are about to nearly triple their strike radius, hardly obsolete really.

We need large carriers. We needed a stealth F14 to defend them. F14, twice the range of the F18. Too often, we have been screwed by the Mantra of ‘affordability’.

Bywrong, Noted point on the “assumption” of hostilities between the US & PRC. That said, the PRC’s massive military build is not for nothing.
The PRC has a DF-21 with the capability to hit a warship at sea at certain ranges. We’ve known about the missile for a while and the “winger tanks and butternuts” (whatever that means???) have nothing to do with this intel. As with most weapons, the DF-21 does not possess a 1.0 Pk, but it is real and a concern.

You condem everybody of making assumptions “without a shred of evidence” and in doing so are guilty of that very thing. Pot/kettle. The “carriers are obsolete” arguement has been going on since the carrier revolt over half a century ago and will probably still be going half a century from now.

Aside from that I agree with your post. The other thing about nuclear power is you can maintain high speed for extended periods if you need to get somewhere in a hurry. Today, if a carrier were to do that they’d end up leaving the rest of the group far behind which kinda defeats the purpose. An Aegis/Virginia (the CGN) would have been an interesting combination but they decided to go with the cheaper Spruance hulls instead.

I’d feel a little better if they got PAC-3 MSE at sea as well. Like a Patriot cell, a Mk41 VLS could pack 4 PAC-3s to a cell.

I don’t get how they think the F-35C has short range when the current USN fighters (the various Hornets) are pretty poster children for “short-range” and the F-35C far exceeds their range. I guess if it doesn’t have the range of the A-6 subsonic bombtruck it’s “short-ranged”.

“pretty much poster children” (no coffee yet)

Hey ribby-Bill, I mostly agree with you. Submarines are the ultimate stealth strike platform, but we need to remember that they can only carry some many Tomahawks missiles and secondly, these things are expensive. You don’t want to be lobbing Tomahawks at nothing my HVTs. Carriers and their air wing are infinitely flexible and they carry all types of weapons to deal will all types of threats. Carriers can support troops on the ground whereas subs cannot.
If we got into a shooting war with the Chinese our subs would devastate and totally block up the Chinese navy, but it is the carriers that will be doing the majority of the offensive operations.

Where did you come up with 50?

A new carrier plus air wing costs more than a sub.

Do away with the Navy and give everything to the Marine Corps. CVN’s are large Targets with no value added, just like the Aircarft Carrier JSF and F-22. Targets waiting to be blown up.

Wikipedia says:
F-35C combat range: 640 nmi
F-14D combat range: 500 nmi

Even by the end of the cold war the carrier was obsolete. The navy had elaborate plans to combine up to 4 carriers groups together in a battle group just to try and keep them alive for a couple days.

Like a lot of this big and expensive and obsolescent equipment it looks impressive to Americans and that is enough. But the reality is that they are one Iranian sunburn away from a debacle.

The carriers haven’t played a decisive role in a single battle since the coral sea. Like the marines the navy has been defined by the IJN and remains to this day ossified waiting for it’s return.

You either are sardonic or lack the most basic knowledge of US naval history. Midway? Marianas Turkey Shoot? And by the perceived threat of US force projection, how many battles and wars were avoided? An unanswerable question.

You have been watching too many movies.

Yea it stopped the aliens too.

The same anti-carrier arguments always keep coming up, and they never make sense. A carrier is just a platform for aircraft, which boil down to high speed platforms for missiles. It’s a shell for any weapon you want to put in it. Except that unlike other platforms it is versatile enough to carry a wide variety of weapons, with the size to carry large numbers of them.

Just what is supposed to be the grand alternative to the big deck carrier? Submarines? Small missile boats? More amphibious assault ships, which are basically just smaller carriers limited to lower performance STOVL jets? Where is the air defense capability on these other alternatives? The ISR? The deep strike (Tomahawks are great, but don’t exist in the same numbers as JDAMs on carriers)? The CAS for the boots on the ground?

War is about using capabilities to actually accomplish something. Not some stupid made-up fantasy scenario where the enemy manages to locate a lone carrier and fire hundreds of anti-ship missiles at it, with the carrier group strangely not firing any missiles back in return.

No he has been reading a history book, you should try it sometime.

I too believe we need a twin-engine, 5th generation strike fighter that is comparable to the F-22 in the air-superiority role. Kinda like the old NATF concept but with greater capabilities to attack ground targets.

However variable sweep wings have proven quite maintenance intensive in the past, so that may not be the best solution.

The F-35C is nice, but I believe the Navy needs more going into the future.

The last American fleet carrier sunk was CV-8 U.S.S. Hornet on Oct 27, 1944. So carriers have operated in a very hostile world for nearly seventy years without another loss. And the details of the loss of the Hornet are important. First the Hornet was hit by four bombs, two long lance torpedo’s and two kamikaze aircraft that crashed on her deck. She wasn’t sunk by was damaged enough to need a tow While under tow she was attacked again and took another torpedo hit. At this point she was abandoned and US forces attempted to sink her. Nine more American torpedoes and 400 5 inch shells failed to sink her. American ships were forced out of the area. So two Japanese subs used four more long lance torpedoes to finally sink this tough old ship. The final tally 15 torpedoes, three aerial bombs, and 400 rounds of naval gunfire.
And modern carriers can take a lot more punishment than these old designs. The advance in fire control, water tight compartments, fuel and ammunition storage have made the CVN’s a very hard target; and that’s if you actually get in any hits. They are defended; much more effectively then seventy years ago. It should also be pointed out that even while it was being damaged it’s aircraft were sinking one Japanese carrier and damaging another along with two cruisers damaged. So she went down swinging.
The arm chair admirals don’t really know what they’re talking about.
American carriers are the worst nightmare of anti-American, anti-democracy, pro-totalitarian regimes all over the world. And a few groups within our own borders.

And as an answer to oblat’s comment that carrier’s haven’t played a major role since the Battle of the Coral Sea.
Coral Sea aye. I guess your forgetting Midway, Guadalcanal, Tarawa, the Battle of the Java Sea, the Battle of Sunda Straight, the Battle of Cape Esperance, the First and Second Naval Battles of Guadalcanal, the Battle of Tassafonga, the First and Second Battles of Kula Gulf, the campaign against Truk. the Marianas Campaign, the Marshalls campaign, the Battle of the Philippine Sea, the Battle of Leyte Gulf, the Battle of Saipan, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, the Korean War, the War in Vietnam, the first and second Gulf Wars and hundreds of smaller engagements. Other then those your right! What have carriers done for us?

Bronco, thanks for a comprehensive list. There may be an argument against carriers in the modern era, but Oblat doesn’t make it. And as a civilian, I won’t presume to offer advice to professal sailors about how to utilize this critical American resource. But history tells us carriers have and will continue to be mission critical for projecting American power, protecting sea lanes, and supporting the objectives outlined by the command structure.

The fact that China creates (renovates) a single carrier strikes me as a non-story. The second largest economy, with the world’s largest populace, should be developing it’s capabilities to protect it’s interests, even if at odds with US policies or wishes. What I find more interesting is why hasn’t the PRC developed this capability sooner? And, what are they going to do with the asset? One carrier isn’t going to change the strategic balance in the region. Neither is one — even twenty — operational J-20’s. Who does the PRC really worry about? India continues to build a modern, professional navy and air force. It seems those two regional rivals will be keeping an eye on each other pretty closely over the next ten to twenty years.

In the meantime, US naval doctrine will continue to adapt to emerging threats. Carriers will be part of that evolution for at least one more generation.

Oblat, I think you were “obsolete” the day you were born

Why don’t you just go away?

This forum is for adults who have a brain and what to contribute to the discussion

>And as a civilian

I stopped reading at as a civilian.

Lists of WW2 battles where carriers just happen to turn up don’t cut it as analysis. I understand the fanboys love their carriers — they love the nostalgic feeling they evoke. But the IJN just isn’t coming back to rescue their hobby.

Here’s the horrible truth — carriers can’t survive without comprehensive land based air cover. It’s something that the navy knew 30 years ago. Carriers are the lightweights in any war sure they turn up all done up with lace but their effect is marginal. It is much more cost effective to invest in land based aircraft.

i think the usa could make a stealth one if they wanted to

The Carriers still need JP5 which comes in the same ship as F76. While a CVN can potentially carry more JP5 than a CV, you are still refueling every few days of heavy flight ops. Just the way it is.

Things (tanks, aircraft carriers, manned flight, infantry) will become obsolete IF there is not a counter measure for the new threat.
The “death missle” is still a missle and can be intercepted, mayby not with the current tech. But lasers will and sensors further out to detect the incoming missle to buy time.

Don’t be so hasty to claim something is obsolete.

Agreed, The F-35C has a published 600nm radius with internal weapons and internal fuel alone, significantly greater than the typical F-18E/F profile. Add external tanks and/or in-flight refueling and you could easily perform strikes closer to twice that range, especially with weapons like JASSM. How much range do you need?

Your right, and they do dramatically more, and different, missions as well. Let see, can subs do presence missions? Can subs do Humanitarian missions? Can subs do Sea Control? Can subs do CAS or deep interdiction? Can subs do Command and Control? Can subs even counter pirates? I could go on but its pretty pointless, if you want to really control the seas, above, on and below, as opposed to denying the use of the seas, you need more than subs, you need a balanced force.

So by your logic, the Carrier was obsolete in WWII because we used 15 of them together and they were vulnerable to Japanese Subs? I guess every single weapon we have is obsolete because we always plan to have a bunch of them together and they are vulnerable to something.

GIve the Navy to the Marine Corps. Who needs the Navy? There are enough Targets floating around, thinks to Mullins and his 1000 Ship Navy.

I stopped reading at “fanboys.”

The suggestion that carriers just happened to show up in every major Pacific battle in WWII, including Midway, is a blunder of historical research on your part.

The “horrible” truth you reveal in that post is hardly some form of professional wisdom. I don’t think any Air Force unit on Guam wants to be engaged in a war with the Chinese without naval support protecting the island, just as it is very useful to support aircraft carriers from land based air cover, even though it has not been required in any US naval battle in history.

We need to also remind the British that carriers can’t survive without comprehensive land based air cover, because somehow their carriers did survive the Falklands war without any land based air cover.

This has been studied. See CVN-21 project models. It turns out, you can’t make an aircraft carrier stealth from the top, because you must have a flat runway. From all other angles it can be done, and there are models of the designs looked at. I have really terrible photos of those models btw.

1: Fort Knox
2: Special Ops “GoFast” boats. LCS is number 2.
3: Minuteman-III
4: Nuclear exchange
5: Any CSG
6: Our enemies are too blinded in their own pride to fear us. Much to their terminal dismay, I might add.

I bet a sub with modern capabilities can hear an aircraft carrier when a jet lands on it a couple thousand miles away, thats why China does not have a large carrier fleet, when they have pretty good size submarine fleet.

While operationally it has not often been the case, a CVN can in fact operate more than twice as long without refueling than a CV. The other REALLY BIG difference is the amount of fuel needed…

Brian you crack me up
1. Didn’t you know Fort Knox is empty ;-D
2. GoFast boats “may” be the fastest “boat” for a “short period” of time (until they run out of gas). Nothing can travel as fast as a carrier for indefinite periods
3. We talking “conventional” silly
4. Not very likely
5. I’m afraid your land based CSG won’t survive the first wave of “Chinahawk” missiles, stationary targets don’t last long in a shooting war

You read too many spy novels…

In case you haven’t noticed, China has been trying to get carriers for quite some time now. Thankfully it is not as easy as they had envisioned.

Okay. Here’s what I don’t get and hoping someone will ‘splain it to me… Why was there so much international broohaha that caused us to back down from arming ballistic missiles with conventional warheads, but it seems perfectly okay for the CHICOMs to do so?

A sub fleet that conducted a grand total of about 10 patrols last year and has yet to conduct a single SSBN deployment even though it’s had them for 25 years. Whereas the US has conducted in excess of 1000 Ohio class SSBN missions in the life of the system to date and racks up 100+ SSN patrols a year.

With JASSM you sacrifice stealth though, wont fit in the weapon bays.

That’s just the point, it’s NOT OK, every time you launch a ballistic missile the world will go into WW3 mode, there’s no way of knowing what the missile is carrying until it goes BOOM, the Chinese will learn that the hard way when they launch one of their carrier killers only to have the USA open the silo doors on the Nukes!!

exactly, you can only see what type of warhead is mounted until it explode’s

Let me see now who was it who said we didn’t need a gun on the F4 Phantom that all it needed to carry was missiles and bombs. The planners in the Pentagon believed that in air to air combat all that was needed in a supersonic environment was missiles exclusively. Well along came a little war called Viet Nam and we soon found out that most engagements were at subsonic speeds which precluded the use of missiles. So they mounted external gunpods however the lack of gun sights made them relatively inaccurate. We lost a lot of F4s to MIG17s before the Pentagon finally got it right and mounted a 20mm Gatling gun on the F4. Task Force 77 was very effective throughout the entire VN war and that was primarily because of the carriers. Don’t write off the aircraft carriers anytime too soon.

Frickin’ A — tweety Bronco46!!!! Besides the fact that new tactics could place them away from harm’s way while jeep carriers take the flak. That tactic was considered in WWII also, dreamed up by Halsey while he was in the hospital at Pearl.

We don’t really have anything like that, but too bad the jump jets aren’t more than a fantasy, they could make the difference. Perhaps the X-47B could make the difference in running interference extending the range a large carrier could control. I imagine any ship could actually launch one of those drones, you wouldn’t even need a “JEEP” for that. Recovery after action would not be a problem, with the range the UAVs have.

Lesson learned WW2.
Carriers essentially projected the air cover, the pre landing devastation, down to the pre landing bombardment of the IJN homeland.
Carriers lost by the US were a result of AIR to AIR bombing. Even then, the carriers lost fought to a wining draw while still operating.

The CVNs we have today, plus the Air Group, Close and Long Range defenses, are sufficient to withstand any missle tossed thier way. China does indeed have a missle, but so far, untested in true combat. A paper tiger?

Carriers provide the one thing Boots on the ground do not. Air superiority, Presence and Deadly power on call.
end
Semper Fi

Sorry, meant to press + but pressed -.
Another reason my hands are not near any big red buttons.

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