The danger of a ‘hollow force’

The danger of a ‘hollow force’

Hollywood almost always treats American service members as heroes — sometimes comic, mostly serious — but one notable exception was 1986’s “Heartbreak Ridge.” In that movie, Clint Eastwood’s Medal of Honor-wearing Gunnery Sgt. Tom Highway is one of the last combat veterans in the post-Vietnam, all-volunteer Marine Corps, back when “USMC” stood for “Uncle Sam’s Marijuana Club.” Highway bucks his lily-livered officers and delivers some traditional Marine Corps motivation to his no-good, unfit, disrespectful band of misfit recruits, eventually molding them into a combat unit just in time for action in Grenada. The message of the movie was clear: Today’s worthless young punks, even those in uniform, are a disgrace to the heroes that came before them, and only someone like a Gunny Highway — not the officer corps, not the Defense Department, and not politicians — can put the military back on track.

“Heartbreak Ridge” depicts the era of the much-feared “hollow force,” and critics of President Obama’s planned $400 billion in defense cuts warn that they’ll send us right back there. But as Sandra Erwin writes in the June issue of National Defense, there’s almost no chance the American military will look like it did after Vietnam, and saying so doesn’t help anyone.

Wrote Erwin:


A more levelheaded view is that moderate cuts are inevitable and even necessary. The new defense secretary set to replace Gates, Leon Panetta “has a chance to bring much-needed discipline to a Pentagon budget that has spun out of control,” said Gordon Adams, a professor of international relations at American University and a federal budget expert. “The cuts could be an incentive to design a military force that is globally superior, more focused, less bureaucratic and tailored to the missions it will face,” Adams wrote in a Washington Post editorial. He contends that the defense budget could be cut by $1 trillion, or 15 percent below current projections over the next decade, and the U.S. military still would be the world’s most powerful. “This is the fourth scaling back of defense spending since the 1950s. It is predictable, normal and, like the others, driven by fiscal concerns and the end of wars,” said Adams. A build-down, he believes, would not make the military weaker, but leaner and more efficient.

… Yes, the defense budget has peaked; and some reductions will occur. But there is no evidence that any planned cuts will be so extreme to merit the “H” label. The Obama administration’s proposed cuts are modest, and essentially put the Pentagon on a flat budget path, which is still a real contraction after a decade of largesse. Warnings against hollowing out the military ring less of genuine fear but rather loudly of demagoguery.

If you wanted to take an optimistic view, you could argue that many of the corrosive qualities that afflicted the military after Vietnam will be absent in the post-Iraq and Afghanistan era. Americans invariably say they “support the troops,” and as Adm. Mullen consistently points out, many of them are more or less oblivious to today’s wars. Compare that to the enormous protests against Vietnam and the deep-seated anti-draft, anti-military sentiment  in much of the country. Also, this time the military doesn’t need to transition from a force of draftees to volunteers.

But a pessimist could argue that the all-volunteer force has been so successful because of how much Congress has been willing to spend since 9/11. It  has been so generous with the troops, in fact, that Gates and Mullen beg lawmakers not to increase troop pay, and the Pentagon brass even wants DoD to be able to charge more for Tricare for working-age retirees. If the flow of money leveled off or began to decrease as DoD decreased the size of the Army and Marine Corps, it could start a chain reaction that might cost the military some of its best talent — especially if the economy improves. You could also argue that after Vietnam, the U.S. at least had an existential enemy in the Soviet Union, which eventually justified the “There’s A Bear In The Woods” buildup under Reagan. As commanders plan for the world after Iraq and Afghanistan, they’re casting about for a new strategic direction — so much so that the Army doesn’t even know what kind of threats to build its new vehicles to defend against.

What do you think — can the U.S. military slim down and retain its ability to fight and win? Or does it risk winding up with a hollow force?

Join the Conversation

It all depends on the approach they take the cuts. If they just arbitrarily cut R&D and procurement, then yes, we could end up with a hollow force. If an effort is actually made to cut waste and increase efficiency, we can potentially hit our target without a significant loss in capability.

If we’d stop trying to police the world and get all our main infantry and mechanized brigades out of the Middle East and just leave a few extremely well funded Special Ops Units and TURN EM LOOSE we wouldn’t be spending as much as we do now. We need to invade Mexico and take care of THE SERIOUS LED DEFICIENCY IN THE DRUG CARTELS. It would be better for our, as well as Mexico’s, health if we filled all the drug cartels just FULL of Led. ;D Hahaha Oh and get rid of the EPA. It is driving a lot of the jobs out of our nation. Thanks to the Green Fags. Oh and we should go help Israel if they give us permission. That’d be a SOME SERIOUS HISTORY IN THE MAKING IF US AND ISRAEL JUST WENT PLOWING THROUGH ALL THE ARAB COUNTRIES STRAIGHT TOWARDS IRAN. NO NATION COULD STOP US IF WE TEAMED UP! HOOOOAH! :D

So are you suggesting that we “stop trying to police the world” or should we “invade Mexico” and start “PLOWING THROUGH ALL THE ARAB COUNTRIES STRAIGHT TOWARDS IRAN?”

I do not mind admitting that you comments left me somewhat confused.

Oh and please forgive my rudeness for pointing this out but the word lead is spelled with an “a”.

Cuts in the right place and bringing some common sense back to DoD may be a smart move. However, witht this congress and the politicizing of everything these days I’m afraid a hollow force could happen.

Following your idea to launch a crusade against the Arab world, we’d prove people like Bin Laden right. Which will surely unite all Arab countries together against the West. Terrorist attacks will surely increase greatly, and OPEC could very much cut our supply of oil off. Destroying our economy (50x more then Bush and Obama), and our ability to fight those wars.

I don’t want us getting involved in so many 3rd world wastelands but I still think we need that large military. Walk softly, but carry a big stick.

DoD Buzz spends — and wastes — a lot of time debating material programs, but the big challenge DoD faces is how it will nuture and shape its human capital in a period of austerity. History shows that the tendency is to go too far, too fast, and too deep all at once. The great officer shortage of this past decade stems from overly drastic reductions in officer accessions from 1992 onward. How do you manage attrition and (hopefully) keep your best people onboard ? FWIW — OCS-trained officers have been rising as part of the force over the past twenty years, while academy accessions remain flat. It is a free country, but the military does need to put in incentives to retain unique skills as well as encourage its best people to stay in. A bit more uplifting language from leadership would really help motivation. And stop kicking the officer corps around.

Obama’s GOAL is a hollow force…

cut America down to size as desired by his GD America pastor of 20 years…

Trillions to welfare — not a penny for defense.…

that be right… obama gots to buy his votes from hi illiterate base

Whether or not we get another hollow force is really dependent on the generals and admirals. They can protect their pet projects, like submarines and aircraft carriers, strategic bombers, and see-everything-do-everything integrated ground vehicles, or they can admit they’ve made certain mistakes, show some courage and step into the next generation. We don’t need 1.5 million men and women engaged in perpetual war. But first we need to admit that, like Pogo, we have met the enemy and he is us!

Start laying off the unnecessary Flag officers and commands. There is no need for Army, Corps or Division level commands any longer.

What a bunch of BS. Just look at the US budget over the past 20 years. It is NOT the defnese budget which is “out of control”…

We’ll always need a large military, regardless of our political decisions. It is simply a matter of maintaining our nation security and dominance.

LMAO, I love how everything is anti democrat while a democrat is in office, and anti republican while a republican is in office. They’re all the same, they just cater to some ever so slightly different sources.

Truth of the matter is regardless of who’s in office, along with the drawdown in Iraq, and the perceived draw down in Afghanitstan, it would happen regardless. It is simply a matter of what contrractors have their hands in the pockets of the politicians at the given time.

Speaking of illiterate, “gots” is not a word and “that be right” just stinks to high heaven of bad grammar. You should definitely be an Obama supporter by your own logic.

I don’t think DoD and Washington in general can asses itself honestly. We can void a hollow force but it requires admitting that some of the boogey man scenarios are just that. In the mean time kids with machine guns in fishing boats have quadrupled the number of pirate attack off the Horn of Africa this year. We could save a lot of money if we simply spent smarter and were realistic in our threat assessments.

And Oblat is with a capital

Well it’s certainly not the education budget.

The hollow force concept being due to lack of funding is crap. What caused the near-disintegration of the Army in the 1970s was lack of civilian popularity and a basic loss of a central mission and identity leading to severe discipline and morale issues.

The 1990s military is the one that went to Afghanistan in 2001 and kicked the ever loving snot out of the Taliban and Al-Qaeda and then repeated the process on Saddam and the Iraqi Army 2 years later. The grand total in spending difference from 2000 to 2001 (Clinton to Bush) was actually a decrease of about four billion dollars, and then a jump of around 100 billion upwards to the lower 400-billion level.

It’s less “do we have wads of cash to spend” and more “are our soldiers disciplined and professional?” The 1990s military maintained an extremely high level of discipline (much higher than we have today, honestly) in the face of relative fiscal austerity and it showed when soldiers who were privates and second lieutenants for the Gulf War were platoon sergeants and battalion commanders for the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq.

Hallowing of our military as said above, “More levelheaded view is that moderate cuts are inevitable and even necessary. The new defense secretary set to replace Gates, Leon Panetta “has a chance to bring much-needed discipline to a Pentagon budget that has spun out of control,” said Gordon Adams.” My question, Who will bring the Welfare and other government subsidies under CONTROL. At least with military spending if creates jobs and you have people working and paying taxes and spending money on the economy. Not like the other Obama programs where they no work, no pay taxes and get stuff for free

Since the XXVIII Amendment to the Constitution was passed (authorizing the federal government to move education from the states), education budgets have increased exponentially. If you go back to a time when education was a state issue, federal budgets are meaningless.

DOD total manpower shows a steady downward trend from the end of the Korean War (3.5M) to today with 1.5M. While there a few bumps in the strength, most notably Vietnam War, the trend is down. Spending, on the other hand, has grown consistently from $400B (in today’s dollars) to $700B. There are dips in spending after Korea, Vietnam and Desert Storm, but the trend is upwards.

DOD needs to look at the cost of programs.

With new weapons costing 10 times more than those they are replacing, our forces are being hollowed out even without cuts. So the real question is do we hollow out our force while spending above Cold War levels, or hollow out our force slightly more quickly with some realistically required spending cuts? The only way we are going to stop the hollowing out of our military is through honest to God acquisition reform, not by arguing some non sequitur about funding cuts. We would have to be talking about cutting 30–40% of our current military budget for the cuts to equal the damage that’s being done by our current procurement process.

Defense spending to GDP has trended downward ever since the 1950s. It also comprises a smaller and smaller percentage of the enite federal budget, while entitlements continue to grow both absolutely and relative to overall federal spending. If you beat up on material programs and don’t do anything about personnel accounts, you get all sorts of very ugly tradeoffs. I’d like to see someone do a comparison of what the relative inflation of a staff sergeant or a second lieutenant is compared to a tank since WWII. To the extent that the budget goes flatline, you get into real reductions, but what is the unit cost relative to the whole ? If you follow the trend line, reductio ad absurdum, you get a single system costing the entire DoD budget, manned literally by an “army of one”. Good luck with that.

What Post War Era???? I have not seen or heard of any body laying any guns down yet. Eliminating one leader does not end the war. Remember we backed way off when USSR fell apart and we have paid dearly for believing the world is now at peace. Hey folks I would think by now The press and the maybe some of the politicians and the Military leaders would understand That dropping your guard is asking for trouble and invariably we get it.

A hollow force is inevitable. The contractors need to maintain their revenue and the budget is shrinking so the money has to come from active forces and real capability.

Just ask the local contractor shill — cut and run from Afghanistan so that the money can be handed over to the contractors.

Just look at the lobbying effort going on in Congress. Cut and run has become the mantra of the contractors as they seek to preserve their revenue stream at the cost of national security.

What we tear down now will only have to be rebuilt later. You just need to look at the “Peace Dividend” that Bush1/Clinton proposed. The cost of rebuilding a force after dismantling it is exponentially higher than leaving it at a steady state. Is there room to trim the fat, **** yea, but going too far just leads to higher costs later. History is the lesson learned.

The U.S. spends more per pupil than any other country in the world BY far. We spend something like $10,000 PER STUDENT PER YEAR on public education, and we have one of the worst public education systems in the first world. YEAH…budget is not the problem with our education system, it’s politics and teachers unions. Throwing good money after bad is not the solution to that problem.

Yep..then in 10 years, when we end up in a war with Iran or North Korea, we are going to find out that a lot of that capability we cut out because we decided that these so-called “boogy man scenarios” were not realistic is capability that we still actually needed, and we’ll have to dramatically increase the defense budget all at once in order to get it back.

Did I ever say Iran and North Korea weren’t realistic threats? Try asking before you quote someone.

Many of these defense contractors are multi-national corporations who have no real allegance to any country, yet they wrap themselves in the nearest convenient flag as soon as their motives are questioned. Also, the longer this suck a$$ procurement system is in place, the more amoral or straight up unscrupulous people are promoted by it, which makes the system that much more entrenched. The defense industry used to promote people based on their ability to contribute to the product, but for decades now the tendency has been to promote purely based on the demonstrated loyalty an employee shows to their boss, much like you see in crime syndicates.

The only “Peace Dividend” anyone really got was the “profit on development” peace divident the defense contractors got in the early ‘90s. They’ve been making record profits ever since and development times and costs have gone up by orders of magnitude. Costs that rise at that rate are unsustainable by any country even in the best of times, and these are not the best of times. It is time to go back to the procurement approch we used to win the Cold War and made our government live within its means without shirking its constitutional mandate to provide for the common defense.

And yet…the carrot being offered out to the defense industry right now is to loosen ITAR restrictions so that they will be able to make up for cuts in the US defense budget with increased sales abroad. This is the first time in my memory that the US government has officially adopted that line. Under Clinton, there was a lot of emphasis on dual use, and the big battle over exporting defense technology was in the dual use area, including supercomputers and space. Now it seems like the US is becoming more like Germany or France, with a defense industrial policy that says “Made in America” on the bumper sticker. So much for international defense cooperation, and the “two way street”.

They need to get rid of ITAR so they can outsource more defense jobs to China and India. Talk about a hollowed out shell of a defense. Hell, I already work at one of those. We haven’t built a part for an airplane in the “airplane factory” I work at in nearly a decade already. Most of the facility is a huge wearhouse for foreign made parts already except for the assembly line where the foreign parts are put together so that it almost looks like we know what an airplane is. I hope everyone feels real safe when the f’ing Chinese build every part of the F-35.

Mixed bag today.…some normal and some real analysis. Having been in the “peace dividend” Army I can tell you that WHERE we cut is as/more important that HOW MUCH we cut. The 1990’s problem was a combination of poor personnel and fiscal management.

Fiscally we let the bureaucrats cut personnel and procurements of essentials while keeping the bloated government offices and command structure even though we had half the troops. Rather than investing shrewdly and upgrading essential hardware/weaponry/infrastructure, we wasted billions on ever more ambitious and dubious projects that have since proven to be utterly worthless concepts. This year (10 years since 9/11) we still have lousy and underperforming small arms and still have the majority of the Army in a camouflage pattern that doesn’t camouflage.

The “peace dividend” was always an illusion to begin with, better not to chase this mirage a second time.

I was part of the “Hollow” force and the problem was largely in perception of the military after the VietNam war. Most civilians didn’t want anything to do with the military and most servicemen felt abandoned by the civilian government. The US Navy was undermanned and underfunded, until Ronald Reagan began his buildup. The moral was damaged and once that occurs, it can take years to over come. Can it happen again, yes it can.

Trim the fat as you would have it but keep in mind you will be paying it out the back door in veteran benefits from the undermanning and undermining of the military. A hollow force creates higher risk health problems from lack of sleep, lack of good nutrition, and sufficient time to relax not to mention a lack of quality health care. The end result, Vietnam veterans and Desert Shield/Storm veterans with massive health issues that are service connected and rated up to 100% disability. So you pay it now or you make them all sick and pay it later ~ oh wait then you stop providing the veterans services and cut their benefits or refuse to offer a COLA ~ I forgot that is what we do the the great men and women who give their lives on a blank check for our nation to turn their backs on ~ seems like a Vietnam all over again to me.

It is a sad day in America when we would rather reduce our nations freedom protectors instead of reducing the “entitlements” such as Earned Income Credit and Child Tax Credits that do nothing more than keep the poor poor~ Don’t believe me? ask the tax filers who love to get their $10,000 paycheck at the beginning of each year so much so that they or their spouse quit their job to ensure they get that money! Give me a break and reprioritize the system

Given our peer competitors (China, Russia) and sub-peer challengers (Iran, Venezuela) are well versed in realpolitik, we should expect military weakness to inspire adventurism. Furthermore, while the military is a convenient budget target, the real deficit problem lies in entitlement spending. Not only are we not addressing the real problem, we stand to create a bigger mess if (and when) the military cannot recruit, train, and equip quality individuals.

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