The military music war heats back up

The military music war heats back up

Last year, the Washington Post’s Walter Pincus caused a lot of monocles to drop into a lot of cocktails with his frontal assault on the military’s bands. How can defense advocates complain about budget cuts, Pincus argued, when DoD has more musicians than the State Department has foreign service officers? Why do American taxpayers need to support so many different bands across the four services? There was a media dust-up as band leaders defended their missions as ambassadors and recruiters for the service, and after a few weeks, the kerfuffle died down.

Now another Washington heavyweight, defense commentator Loren Thompson, has brought it roaring back. And this time he’s not just taking on the military’s expenditures on musicians, he’s taking on the news media, which he says distort statistics about his beloved F-35 Lightning II to make it sound as dysfunctional and expensive as possible.

Or as Thompson wrote on Tuesday:


[T]he nation’s military services really are going to spend over $25 billion on music bands in the coming years. In fact, if you add inflation and indirect costs like retirement benefits, the “then-year” cost of military bands is more like $50 billion. But here’s the catch: I’m talking about the cumulative cost for military bands between now and the year 2065.

Ridiculous, right? By the time we get to 2065, the bands will probably be unmanned (robotic) anyway. But that hasn’t stopped various news organizations from reporting that the after-inflation “life-cycle cost” of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter through 2065 has risen above a trillion dollars. The story generated a lot of buzz, mainly because few of the reporters who cover the Pentagon know anything about economics. If they did, they’d realize that in the 1970s you could buy a new Mustang convertible for less than $5,000 and half a century is a very long time in economic terms.

I imagine a few grizzled editors actually did know this, but they just couldn’t resist attaching a trillion-dollar pricetag to the F-35 because it was a sure-fire way of attracting readers. So how come they never apply the same bogus methodology to other government expenditures — like music bands? Walter Pincus reported in the Washington Post on September 6, 2010 that the Army, Air Force, Navy and Marines were spending around $500 million annually on bands. Multiply that number by 50 years and then add in a modest inflation factor — say 2.5 percent per year, compounded — and half a century later you’re talking real money, as the late Senator Everett Dirkson might have put it. Many tens of billions of dollars, it turns out.

The answer to Thompson’s question is that Americans have developed a deep-seated aversion toward criticizing people in the military, as opposed to hardware. A fighter jet can be “wasteful,” but calling a group of uniformed service members — whatever they do — “wasteful” smells like criticizing the troops, which we taught ourselves never to do after Vietnam. It’s so unthinkable that a few years ago The Onion ran a satirical story headlined “Bush: Maybe U.S. Military ‘Just Not Very Good.’” Also, disputing $500 million in the context of a $700 billion defense budget seems kind of churlish … then again … you could buy a littoral combat ship with that kind of money.

What do you think? Are military music expenses fair game in Austerity America, or is there an apples-and-oranges problem juxtaposing hardware costs with personnel costs?

Join the Conversation

What a lame new tactic in the propaganda war to keep F-35 alive at all costs. The difference is that F-35 exposes the taxpayer to much greater cost risk than O&M costs of bands. In the middle of risky devevlopment you don’t know how bad things can get and how much you will have to pay and if you will even get any benefit at all (if the program gets canceled). For bands, controlling costs and measuring benefits are much easier. And if bands aren’t effective it is easier to cut them than it is to cut a politically engineered development program spread across as many Congressional districts as possible, resulting in greater engineering (and cost) inefficiency. OHH, and even though that F-35 trillion dollar budget goes out to 2065, it does not mean we get 55 years of 2400+ F-35’s kicking butt for Uncle Sam. Given the agonizingly long development and procurement phases, there will be long phase in and phase out periods. The planning assumption is probably only 20 years of O&M for each F-35.

Military bands have long outlived their usefullness. With the ability of USO tours and MWR programs I don’t find them to be a huge morale booster for our troops. We can maintain a small contingent to render honors at military funerals and dignitary duties. Though we arent comparing apples to apples… I believe it to be a very valid point in terms of dollars and cents.

Thompson is just pushing the contractors latest line that personal cuts need to be made to keep contractor monopoly profits up.

We tried marching once to a Musak, but we just couldn’t get many of us in the elevator.

There is something to be said for tradition and es’prit de corps.

If only researchers could create and deploy a tactical stereo system. Where are you when we really need you, DARPA?

They should look to see which bands are necessary and if they are not get rid of them. They should not get rid of all

because we are in dire need of a fife and drum corps :)

The present American state-of-the-art in stereo equipment is no match for the next-generation Russian fart-noise generators.

I love how some people are actually taking this post seriously.

theguy “Military bands have long outlived their usefullness”

I returned last year after a year long tour in Iraq with a military rock band. The problem I have with your statement is that the MWR and USO acts only go to the bigger COBs and FOBs. It is “too dangerous” for them to travel to PB Wahob or Soto or Gary Owen. You know, the bases where the soldiers sailors and airmen actually need a morale boost becasue they dont have green beans and pizza hut down the road. The places where they still take dumps in bags…

We went on convoy after convoy to every little PB from Basra to Baghdad playing music. In the end we are soldiers first then musicians, lots of people dont realize that. We hit IEDs. We took incoming rockets and small arms fire. We also performed “Army” missions, from searching detainees to escorting people to patrols. Then after those “Army” things were done we opened our cases and put on a show for the other soldiers who were working all day as well.

Ok, off my soap box.

Army Materiel Command, a non-combatant organization, has a band! Huh? I could see 4ID or 1AD with a band, but an organization that does not fight in combat?

Of course they have a band. The US military is the largest socialist organization in the world. They provide cradle to grave care for their members.

Bands are just a tiny part. They are for instance the largest provider of child care in the world.

“Since November 2003, the band has deployed in support of AMC (Army Materiel Command) Soldiers and civilians forward deployed in support of Operations Iraqi and Enduring Freedom. The AMC band has performed in Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Afghanistan. The band is under the purview of the AMC chief of staff.” This is a quote taken from the AMC Band’s homepage.

Also, if you check out their performance schedule you will find that they actually are playing a lot in Huntsville AL. Is that not an important mission too? Bringing smiles and entertainment to people who just experienced a horrible natural disaster in our own country?

I say Brake the bands up and send them into the line Units/Ships/Squadron. As some Army units or companies, have been back and forth to Iraq/Afghanistan about 6 times or more!! Give-em a rifle and fill those ranks!!! Like those ex or Army group of singers, shut up and go to work!!! I wish i was allowed to go sing or play during my 20 yrs. of Army and Navy Service!!

That’s another point I was going to make, thanks for bringing it up Michael… We DO function as escorts, gun trucks, and whatever else needs to be done. Like you say “Give-em a rifle and fill those ranks!!!” we do have rifles and do fill ranks when needed. It’s not like it can be the other way around when a band is needed or desired… I cant hand any MOS a clarinet, give them a 2 hour block of instruction and say GO! Hand a rifle to a bandsman and he will do what needs to be done.

Yeah, because we all know a “bandsman” as you call it can leave the band hall and execute a near flawless battle drill when we have soldiers who practice it daily as part of their chosen craft and still make some mistakes.… GTFO of here if you think all a band would need is a 2 hour block of instruction– that doesn’t even cover the time it would take for a bandsman to change over his valve oil case for a mag holder on his gear and finding the rest of his equipment.

I did not say we could “execute a near flawless battle drill.” I merely proposed that when needed we are still soldiers and can fire a rifle and perfrom the combat function up to the basic training and predeployment training standards. Which is about the same as say admin units and finance units who go outside wire, although Ive never been in those types of units Im just guessing. There’s a reason for infantry to do that stuff better than anyone else, thats their job! I guess using the 2 hour block of instruction example was a bit exaggerated, but it still stands that we DO know how to perform battle drills and conduct convoys to the standard.

I don’t like to hear the misconception that band soldiers dont carry weapons, ammo, and battle rattle. We had a combat load just the same as anyone who went outside the wire or sat inside the wire for that matter.

Hey Michael,

We all CHOOSE our MOS’s these days. It’s not me and Tanks fault you chose NOT to join a band. It’s a volunteer military, you get to pick your job!! Stop complaining that you didn’t pick the job you really wanted.

As a former 02E (trombone player), I don’t think many realize what other missions Army Band members have. For example just ask any of the V Corps Band members who deployed in 2003 to Kuwait/Iraq, what their primary mission was — Security for the V Corps Rear CP!! Playing music was at that time their seconday mission. Yes they practiced when not on Guard duty and they did hold performances as well. After moving to Camp Victory, Baghdad, their mission changed to entertainment. They held performances at the Palace every chance they got. They also traveled to many of the outlying bases and outposts as well. I also know V Corps Band members who manned Guard towers around Camp Victory and exchanged fire with the enemy. Don’t undercut or second rate Band member as Soldiers just because their primary MOS isn’t Combat Arms!!!
SGM(Ret), 11B„ 12B, 02E

SGM Av.? 2AD late ’80’s?

Here we go again! For pincus and people like him I ask you ever been to a military review? How about a military retirement? Or a military funeral with full honors? Ever been to a MILITARY BASE PERIOD? Probably not. Just imagine any of those scenarios without a military band present, MORON! The espirit d’ corps the military bands help to support is unparralled! Robotic musicians? How about ROBOTIC POLITICIANS? Maybe they can make them with a brain inside! Just think about how much money they would save the American TAXPAYERS!

Hey all you people who want to kick the bands out. Kiss my butt I am a 1SG retired from the band program and I know for a fact we are alot more education, more skills and can fight better than the foot soldier. It takes alot to be a soldier and play music and march. we can do your job can you do ours. Yes we go on FTX’s and alot of training CTT gas chamber, rifle range, Pt you name it we do it . We don’t just sit around and smoke and drink. Some of you need to get a Damn life and get off the food stamps.

We had a military band at my Dad’s Memorial. He wasn’t a big something, just a GI in WWII — but the band played in his honor and as a fellow veteran, my heart swelled with pride that day. In honor of my Dad and the band — each is important as part of a whole.

More bands! Less F-35’s!

This is the same argument that is waged during every era of modern US military history — at least since the Viet Nam era draw down. Get rid of something that seems to be a soft target, so some politician or government contractor can keep their generally over priced line item in the DOD budget. Military bands yield enormous tangible benefits to the entire force that prove substantially economical and relative to inherent cost. The argument could be made that the only combat forces we need are Special Forces operators and contractors like Blackwater. Under such a force construct, there would indeed be no need for military bands outside of the MDW. Come on. Military bands will be with us for as long as we have a military. Cb (1SG, Army Bands Career Program, Retired)

“What have you done to make me look good now?” is the mantra military bands answer to, and they do that a hell of lot better than most.
As a retired member of Air Force Bands, it is my opinion; bands will only go away when the personal sense of entitlement ceases within governmental power structures.

MWR and USO acts usually pay minimum wage and civilians have a habit of not wanting die too cheaply, but in the world of the new cheap, “WE can’t afford it, WE need a tax break!!” it works.

… and they pay taxes, .….

Back to the same government that pays their wages.

8 Deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan as a military bandsmen. That was 44 months of my life over the past decade. I went out into the communities of Afghanistan and Iraq with the band and won over their hearts and minds before Al-Qaeda did, 8 times. Also went to countries through Northern Africa and to ease some international tensions. The ambassador to Djibouti, “thanks to you guys, you reminded the people here that the US cares.” Sometimes it’s better to see a troop with a guitar instead of a gun. I’m not embarrassed about my job, I’m proud of it. I joined the band after 4 years at college studying music, something I trained to do prior to joining the military, declining a commission to serve as an enlisted member during war time. I’m a little tired of folks making me feel like I should apologize for what I do. So, our politicians can wave their wands and crunch their numbers all they want, they aren’t the one’s actually making a damn difference. Also– the unit I currently serve with is the most fit unit in the entire Air Force, and we’re the band.

We chose our AFSC and we love what we do. It requires dedication, training and talent; not just anyone can do it to a functional level. It can’t be replaced by robots or DJs. When I sang the National Anthem at a Memorial Day observance in my home community, I was praised for “singing it right”. We have respect for the music we are performing. Civilian performers can’t always do that.

What we do is important. It’s a shame that the military bands program is on the chopping block because it’s “low-hanging fruit”. Take the time to sit back and analyze where meaningful spending cuts can be made.

Congress just INCREASED defense spending. They threw a distractor of cutting military bands by 37.5%. Please. A cap on military bands spending. Really? Most of military bands cost is personnel. compare that with costs in the Air Force or just about any portion of the military. One F-35A costs more than it would take to fund the entire 5,000-odd person bands all over the world. We’re talking about jobs here. But what we’re really talking about is a classic form of misdirection. If you truly are concerned about government spending and Constitutional purpose, then I would remind you that most of the government’s monies are spent on social welfare programs (Medicaid/Medicare, Health, Social Security, etc…) to the tune of more than a trillion dollars a year in comparison to the pittance that military bands cost.

So I don’t want to hear how the Senate’s move to limit spending on military bands is some kind of accomplishment. In the end, they are increasing spending again…Don’t be fooled into jumping on the “band wagon” and crying “down with frivolous spending on bands and NASCAR.” We shouldn’t be naive.

Michael, no one every said you couldn’t see IF you could make one of those pro military bands, go ahead…try out and see how hard it is to get one of those gigs!

+1 to VTGunner. And Michael, learn how to spell, AND research your replies more carefully. Idiot.

*required

NOTE: Comments are limited to 2500 characters and spaces.

By commenting on this topic you agree to the terms and conditions of our User Agreement