Gates to NATO: You guys suck

Gates to NATO: You guys suck

Have you ever imagined quitting your job and telling your old cretin of a boss exactly what you think of him? Of course — it’s the American dream. And Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates is living it right now, having gone to the doorstep of one of the world’s most ossified, stultifying bureaucracies — NATO — and delivered this message: Get your act together.

There will come a time, Gates warned, when a generation of Americans and their leaders will have no memory of the era in which NATO was a critical bulwark against the Soviets. When that day comes, Americans from the White House on down will begin to seriously question why the U.S. should maintain an alliance that seems to serve no purpose but to provide a forum for high-level dithering. Oh, and there’s more: Gates went straight after those NATO members that don’t meet their military commitments or attach so many conditions to the activities of their troops that they’re effectively useless in big, joint operations like Afghanistan.

“The blunt reality is that there will be dwindling appetite and patience in the U.S. Congress — and in the American body politic writ large — to expend increasingly precious funds on behalf of nations that are apparently unwilling to devote the necessary resources or make the necessary changes to be serious and capable partners in their own defense,” Gates said.


Thom Shanker of the New York Times picks up the story:

He was dismissive of some NATO partners as “nations apparently willing and eager for American taxpayers to assume the growing security burden left by reductions in European defense budgets.”

Mr. Gates has spent his final weeks before retirement speaking forthrightly on issues that ranged from preserving Pentagon spending to sustaining combat forces in Afghanistan. But his address on Friday to the Security and Defense Agenda, a Brussels policy center, was among the most pointed and challenging ever delivered by the former C.I.A. director who has served eight presidents of both political parties.

Despite signs of real progress in Afghanistan, the mission has been weakened by “the inability of many allies to meet agreed upon commitments,” Mr. Gates said. The war effort also has been hobbled by “national ‘caveats’ that tied the hands of allied commanders in sometimes infuriating ways,” he added.

Oh man, and get a load of this:

The defense secretary was even harsher in his critique of NATO’s command of the Libya operation. After an initial bombing campaign run by the Americans, the alliance took over the air war and Mr. Gates warned that NATO may not be up to the task.

“The mightiest military alliance in history is only eleven weeks into an operation against a poorly armed regime in a sparsely populated country — yet many allies are beginning to run short of munitions, requiring the U.S., once more, to make up the difference,” Mr. Gates said.

While the Libya war was unanimously endorsed by NATO nations, less than half are participating, and less than a third are carrying out strike missions.

“Frankly, many of those allies sitting on the sidelines do so not because they do not want to participate, but simply because they can’t,” Mr. Gates said. “The military capabilities simply aren’t there.”

And what, he didn’t add, is the point of a military alliance in which the allies can’t act militarily? Bob Burns of the AP has more:

The war in Afghanistan, which is being conducted under NATO auspices, is a prime example of U.S. frustration at European inability to provide the required resources.

“Despite more than 2 million troops in uniform, not counting the U.S. military, NATO has struggled, at times desperately, to sustain a deployment of 25,000 to 45,000 troops, not just in boots on the ground, but in crucial support assets such as helicopters, transport aircraft, maintenance, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance, and much more,” Gates said …

A NATO air operations center designed to handle more than 300 flights a day is struggling to launch about 150 a day against Libya, Gates said.

Of course, Gates didn’t go with a full scorched-earth policy and say things are hopeless — he said that if NATO wants to stave off irrelevance, its member nations “must must examine new approaches to boosting combat capabilities — in procurement, in training, in logistics, in sustainment.” But based on the reports from Friday morning, U.S. time, it doesn’t sound like he was very optimistic.

 

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Yep. What he said.

Too bad it’s on the way out he finally mans up, gets a concious and speaks the truth.

I spent 7, often frustraing, years in NATO. Although an important alliance for the US, we have allowed them to “free ride” off of US defense dollars/capabilities for over two decades. The only way to get them to provide more defense on their own, is to pull our support out. Words alone will not work– I hope Panetta keeps the pressure up.

I wish he’d have brought this up 3 years ago. Seems rather hollow now that he’s about to leave. All he’s doing is stating the obvious.

Bring home those Army brigades in Europe. That will be a good start.

I like how on msnbc they ran this article adding that the US provides 25% of NATO funding. Still a too high percentage but in reality we provide 48% and then on top of that provide military and economic foreign aid as well as equipment and ordnance and carry the brunt of most missions. It is time to bail on NATO and the UN.

What a terrible headline. We commenters can sometimes (even often times) be unprofessional in our remarks, but journalists should conduct themselves at a much higher standard.

The reality is we as the United States cannot disengage from Europe, Asia, or the Middle East. Without us, “the line will not hold.” Do we need to get our allies to pony up? Yes, by acknowledging the realities identified by Gates, but, at the START of a tour not as a parting shot. The reality is, if we leave and need to fight our way back in at some point in the future, it will be harder AND cost more than by working now to fix an imperfect relationship.

Let’s be honest. We base in Europe so we can affect policy in the areas of strategic interest that are volatile, namely the Middle East, the AfPak region and Eastern Europe. We do not otherwise need to base assets in Germany or the UK. Those countries are well able to take care of themselves or at least understand the consequences of not doing so. Europe isn’t exactly in imminent danger of a Soviet-style invasion

Gates was serving as the subordinate to President Obama. I think the buck largely stops with Obama on that point. The USA often spoke to these matters before the Obama administration, though not often with this clarity.

Gates did a great job, and he truly is a patriot who ignored his political leanings and simply did he best to accomplish the President’s directions. I wish we had more like him.

I’m european and I can’t agree more with mr G. Actually I go further, a new Nato revision should be carried on to only have members that are Nato ready …having some sort of minimal capabilities for duty. Without that you are fired from Nato!
It’s sick to see that a country such as Germany does not have a single CV. At least they could provide a better blue navy with a few ASW destroyers … ops they have none!! .…. precision munitions? .… ops close to none!! .…etc etc

Awesome headline. Made my Friday.

He made comments along these lines during the Afghan escalation.

We need to start getting more creative with air life and amphibious deployment to reduce basing costs.

I meant air lift

Let’s face it — we provide about three-fourth’s of the funding and support for the UN and NATO (or, as General McCrystal called NATO — the MONEY MASTERS). Billions to Israel as well. And who benefits — banksters. Rockefeller and Rothschild are laughing their arses off as they build their new-world order of off our (taxpayers) sweat, blood and tears. The US is a laughing stock to these oligarchs. Our (US’s) strategic interests are not served by being their policeman. WE should be watching OUR backyard. And, where’s the war booty!? (rhetorical) So smart of US to hand it all off to FOGH (NOT). Next stop, slaves on the global plantation.

The truth hurts.

There are articles out there in the NY Times where Gates complained about this type of stuff.

The title of this article is quite slanderous to Secretary Gates and very unprofessional. I wonder… who are the 6 people that would take the time to give this vote a “-1″ and not have the courage, brains, and integrity to debate the contention??

Truth is an absolute defense.

Ah, well, with Gates’s cancellation of C-17, FCS, and EFV that would indeed require creativity. What part “we’re bringing our troops home and they ain’t comin’ back” did you not understand. This is not really about burden sharing. It is picking an argument about burden sharing to justify isolationism.

Nobody on this board wants to benchmark US defense expenditures to GDP, but you’ll stop defending your allies if they don’t meet the 2% NATO target.…I smell a double standard here, and a self-imposed one at that.

I won’t talk to C-17, but it is unfair to character assassinate Gates for FCS and EFV. First off, the Army and the USMC screwed up each of those programs, so Gates actually saved themselves and DoD, and the taxpayer, from bigger nightmares. Second, the President has the authority over the budget, and Congress voted to stop the funding. It is fair to claim that it was the American people, through their elected representatives, who stopped the foolish nonsense of FCS & EFV, against the intransigence of our poor uniformed service “leaders” & industry cheerleaders such as yourself.

The fact is that Americans just like to complain about the Europeans. It provides cover for our military failings. We could leave anytime, the Europeans have more than enough to defend themselves and Europe only benefits from an American withdrawal.

They could cut out all the waste currently spent on expeditionary disasters they are pressured into. And they would have less pressure to buy into the rolling catastrophe that is our weapons procurement. Just getting out of the JSF would make it all worth while.

This is not a matter of character, it is a matter of strategy and policy, and how strategy and policy drive programs. At some point, all the signals that the Pentagon has been putting out since Obama took office have to come together into a coherent whole. All these decisions are interrelated, and they all point in the same direction — self-limiting America’s ability to project land power overseas. Ever. Again. Yes, they all still believe in covert ops and and little hit and run raids, but nothing serious enough to write condolence letters about. Perhaps not Bill Clinton’s “no KIA” threshold in Kosovo, but something very close to that. That is effectively, and for all practical purposes the national strategy of the United States of America. Telling your allies off, throwing them under the bus and telling them to look to their own defenses is just another logical consequence of Decisions Made in Washington.

In the big picture the cold war divide was an anomaly. The future looks increasingly like a Europe better integrated with Russian, Eastern Europe and China, with American bogged down in pointless insurgencies and struggling with it’s economic uncompetitiveness.

Gates: NATO Flunking the Afghan Test http://​www​.frumforum​.com/​n​a​t​o​-​f​l​u​n​k​i​n​g​-​t​h​e​-​a​f​g​han

FEB 24 2010. I have more links. Keep the down thumbs coming.

Oblatski, I can always count on you for a good laugh. Thank you sir, sincerely.

That’s red herring. It’s not an either or like throwing granny off a cliff.

Perhaps you would understand if you:

Understand the geopolitical agenda of the european oligarchs (perhaps read: “The Empire of ‘The City’ The Jekyll/Hyde of the British Government,” “The Rise of the House of Rothschild,” “The Reign of the House of Rothschild,” “The Creature from Jekyll Island”);
Study history (answer the questions: who poisoned Jackson, and killed Lincoln, McKinley and Kennedy, overthrew the Czars and denied Sun Yat-sen’s requests);
Realize that monopoly begets monopoly (you know, the military-industrial-pharmaceutical-finance-illicit drug-media-religion complex);
Stop relying on main-stream media for your information;
Stop drinking fluoridated/chlorinated water;
Pull your head out of the sand; and,
WAKE UP and smell the s!@$ the puppet master has planned for US all for God’s sake!

And, because NATO SUCKS.

We spent between 4.5% and 5% last year.

How do we get from criticism of an unprofessional blog title to your conspiracy theory reading list to your stream of consciousness diatribes? What did I write that would make you think that I “rely on main-stream media”??

The US is bankrupt, O.K.? Having NATO SUCK more of our money away in return for so little bang-for-the-buck is not brilliant. Gates nailed it, and the headline is offensive only to someone of tender sensibilities (why I figured you rely on msm). The author of this article is entitled to state the obvious. What did you think the “suck” stood for?

i took it as in the vulgar use of the term. The author shows poor professionalism in implying that this was what Gates said verbatim. That I would rely on msm is a non sequitir from evidence of tender sensibilities. Your sloppy use of the word “bankrupt” is quite inaccurate. Bankruptcy means a debtor cannot pay its creditors. Since the dollar is a free-floating fiat currency, the US will always be able to pay its debts. Other than your rudeness, arrogance, and inaccurate positions, you are quite a pleasant chap to conserve with.

Granted, it is vulgar to be the policeman for the world elite. Perhaps the author was just showing his “American-style” distaste for the state of affairs that we have been subjected to throughout history by having to shed our sons’ and daughters’ blood for the building of the oligarchs’ empire. Being a Patient Economist, you have the luxury of being prim and proper; but, being a “rude” & “arrogant” American who sees through the blatant propaganda shoved down our throats so we can go die for the empire, I found the title refreshingly cheeky.
Fiat currency or not, the debt ceiling means we go BK in August. Don’t worry, we’ll still jump the pond when pompous europeans fail yet again to preserve freedom.

If the Army or the Marine Corps pull together workable designs that get into the field, and actually help rather than hinder the strategic deployability problem, I will reconsider my views. As it stands now, I don’t see this happening. To the contrary, the end result is likely to be more lost time and more wasted money. Foresight has never been Bob Gates’s strong suit — but he might have done us all a big favor by not imposing his myopia and his myths on the rest of us and calling it political courage. Gates has advocated all the things he should have opposed and he has opposed all the things he should have advocated — it would have been nice for him to have gone out quietly, but such apparently is not the nature of the man.

A big part of that uncompetitiveness is due to the inability to face facts. We find on the factory floor that American workers are increasingly ready to blame someone else rather than fix problems. It’s a cultural thing I’m sure as you see it everywhere.

It’s wont compete rather than cant compete. Even once the dollar is fully devalued and US wages ahve sunk low enough, I doubt that a large chunk of the population want to compete.

I disagree with some of Gate’s decisions in the past, but I agree with him here. We have been carrying most of NATO’s weight for far too long.

The title and Oblat’s pathetic apologizes for the Europeans is pretty entertaining too.

I think you will find that our numbers track at 4% of GDP in the baseline budget — with the old cuts, not the new $400 billion reductions that have been proposed. Assuming we get to a stable baseline (one hopes, fervently), I think we are looking at somewhere between 3 and 4 % of GDP.

If one really wanted to start a conversation about burden sharing, and not just whining about it, one would need to come up with a strategic division of labor that is in the interest of all parties, rather than make each of our NATO allies try to field a smaller version of the United States Armed Forces because we are cutting back and need someone else to step up and fill the gaps.

Because the French have proven themselves to be such motivated workers… yep…

If you look harder you can easily find Sec. Gates saying the same things over and over for years! Seems the mainstream media is just now listening.…

1st point… Are you talking about the US? Because the $400B reductions that the US has proposed… Is for the next 10 Years! Not 1 year…

2nd point… It is the Europeans that cannot come up with a strategic division of labor (national pride I guess?)… The US would love to see a European solution for joint spending to better enhance their capabilities…

It’s very clear, that you are very young and have never traveled… Unless it was with mommy and daddy!!

NATO was designed to provide a perimeter defense against the Soviet Union. However, the enemy is now inside Europe. Aspects of the 9/11 attacks were planned in Europe. That’s why NATO is irrelevant.

We need to stay in NATO. Long term we won’t have any money either and just might need the alliance one day.

European nations can only afford what they can afford. I do whole heartedly agree that they should do more with what they have and they should be less restrictive on what their troopps can do.

Ha ha — sorry loser just closing a deal in Singapore then I’m off to Taiwan.

Empires aren’t run for the benefit of the peasantry. The opinions of small town America about NATO have about as much impact as that of Spanish farmers or British factory workers did.

Of course they don’t like NATO it’s all cost and no benefit from their point of view. But from those actually in charge that’s just another advantage.

Actually the French have the highest hourly productivity in the Western world and Americans the lowest. Then there is Bill at the bottom with negative productivity and a net cost to our economy.

To the poster “STemplar”

———————————–

Part 1 / 2

You wrote: “I just don’t think they deserve a seat at the table if they don’t meet their obligations. Maybe start dissecting Europe and just say if you don’t meet your GDP requirements you’re out.”

The poster “muscimol” already wrote something similar as you, he wrote: “Actually I go further, a new Nato revision should be carried on to only have members that are Nato ready …having some sort of minimal capabilities for duty. Without that you are fired from Nato!”

And after you throw us out of “your” N.A.T.O., should we also close all your (N.A.T.O.‘s) bases, refuse to let you overfly our continent and to dock in our harbours, including in our overseas possessions (Azores, Diego Garcia, Greenland etc.) ?

So sad. Never thought your devised “New World Order” would look like that in the end.

(Continued)

Part 2 / 2

P.S.: After the U.S.A. leave Europe, they should try to ask us the same they recently asked all African countries, if any of us wishes to host your future Europe Command again. In the same tone as Robert Gates talks to us now. Ha ha ha!

Someone ought to remind Robert Gates up there on his N.A.T.O. H.Q. pulpit that he’s talking to the last Europeans – even in Britain – who (allegedly) still wish to have any relations with the U.S.A. . You lost the rest of us long before we “lost” you.

LOOOL !

OK, Robbie: Let’s break up the World’s greatest military alliance over “Afghanistan“and “Kaddhafi”. You do the honours.

Because waging such blatant Crusades for Westernization in two darkie continents was always at the core of the Alliance’s concept.

P.S.: Congratulations for having survived your Era for so long.

US 2010 DoD budget $685 billion. US GDP 2010 $14.7 trillion. Math %4.66 of GDP.

UK 2010 MoD budget 33.6 billion. UK GDP 2010 2.7 trillion. Math %1.24 of GDP.

France 2010 defense 32.2 billion. French GDP 2010 2.1 trillion. Math %1.5 of GDP.

Germany 2010 defense $38.5 billion. German GDP 2010 $3.3 trillion. Math %1.1 of GDP.

Europe is not meeting its commitments to NATO.

Troll

Actually he keeps describing the business atmosphere in Asia a lot, and realistically. There could be a glow under the ash…

(For your information: I’m a proud troll, too, but not every troll is a foreign, under-educated, lazy, chronically unemployed, dirt-poor, unhygienic, substance-abusing, Marxist, A.W.O.L. leftie on Welfare, typing from moms basement. Some people were just born as trolls, other people became trolls for observing U.S. Americans for too long. Trolling is their / our desperate way to be polite to you)

And I should care why? He never posts any real thought, just inflammatory bullshit never backed up by fact one. I called him on the rug over his assertions regarding the Taiwanese wanting to be part of China with facts and proof and he never responded. He just comes on here to poke those dumb enough to buy into his crap because of whatever personality affliction he has that delights him in doing so, kinda like the kid pulling wings off flies I would imagine.

I could care less if you’re polite to me, just don’t bore me.

Try again. From an April 2010 Wall Street Journal article:

“According to the International Labour Organization (ILO), France is ranked just after the U.S. and Norway for hourly labor productivity, calculated by dividing gross domestic product by the number of hours worked.”

Now go back to being unproductive sailing around the Mediterranean.

the inaccuracy in your thinking is pretty sad. it’s amazing that the concept of “all volunteer force” somehow just isn’t getting through to your neocortex. You must have an out of control amygdala. I see, understand, and agree with some of the essence of what you are saying, but hope that you can develop some higher cognitive skills and find peace somehow. are you in uniformed service now, you seem a bit jaded? If so, it might be good to get out, or atleast get some help.

One of the most disconcerting facts about us trolls is… we never lie. We don’t have to. The Truth is comical enough, so we only present you the Truth in the most unpleasant, tasteless, dastardly of manners (and sometimes we also think too fast for some to follow us). So, here are some facts to back “Oblat“‘s correct assertion about the Taiwanese’ opinion on Communist China: “On the question of the PRC government’s attitude towards the people in Taiwan, 45.98% of the respondents consider the PRC government hostile or very hostile, 39.6% consider the PRC government friendly or very friendly, while 14.43% did not express an opinion.“
http://​en​.wikipedia​.org/​w​i​k​i​/​P​o​l​i​t​i​c​a​l​_​s​t​a​t​u​s​_​of_

But I think it’s still unconstitutional (even punishable!) for any Taiwanese politician or party to openly defend reunification with the mainland, even by suggesting a “One Country, Two Systems” model (which was already used for Hong Kong and Macau).

In contrast with the Taiwanese, the pragmatical South Koreans are much less scared of their nuclear-armed, Communist brothers. Their worries already concern the process of reunification itself (!!!), not North Korean bombs:

“The consequence of the economic differences is that many South Koreans, while desiring reunification in theory, want to delay the process of reunification until the Northern economy can be developed separately, having seen the results of the sudden reunification of West Germany and East Germany, and knowing the differences between the two Koreas.
(…)
On 1 January 2011, a group of twelve lawmakers from the ruling and opposition parties introduced a bill into the National Assembly to allow for the establishment of a ‘unification tax’. (…) The bill initiated legislative debate on practical measures to prepare for unification, as proposed by President Lee Myung-Bak in his Liberation Day speech, 15 August 2010. (…) Practical measures to prepare for unification are becoming an increasingly frequent aspect of political debate, as concern regarding imminent and abrupt unification increases.“
http://​en​.wikipedia​.org/​w​i​k​i​/​K​o​r​e​a​n​_​r​e​u​n​i​f​i​c​a​t​ion

Have a nice week-end!

To the poster “Cole”

You wrote: “According to the International Labour Organization (ILO), France is ranked just after the U.S. and Norway for hourly labor productivity, calculated by dividing gross domestic product by the number of hours worked.”

That’s a transitional phase: The Second Great Depression ( YOUR Second Great Depression) isn’t over.

A good conscience is just the backside of a bad memory.

FFB, Google: “Table 1. Output per hour, output, and hours” for more data from 2008–2009 at the height of the recession.

“at the height of the recession. ” you have to laugh. At the point when the dollar surged and the euro was at it’s lowest point in 20 years he takes the statistics and shows they were basically the same. 6 months later and the french are 20% more productive — and I can tell you they weren’t working any harder :-)

Yeah sure… the French are very productive until you threaten to take away their lavish benefits and give employers the ability to fire workers. Then they riot and burn cars.

Do you accually buy any of the bullshit you spew. I’ve talked to numerous Europeans about gates remarks most call them spot on. Many brits are as tired of NATO infact as we are. Sense THEY and us are two of the Nations that provide the power.

If we leave Europe the areas around the bases will sustain a Very bad economic hit. In some cases crippling. Oh yes you would then be forced to sustain your own Logistics in anything sense we have done this for around 50yrs or so for you.

Basicly the truth is WE are invaluable to NATO not so much the other way.

BTW what if we tried to take Diego Garcia? Could you stop us…no.

You cant even stop libya.

Your still full of hot air bomb. And i see you still can get over your own arrogance and anti Americanism.

“According to the figures calculated, the French are 2% more productive than the Americans. GDP in this calculation is based on statistics from NationMaster, dated 2006. If the same calculation were carried out using a different set of statistics from PopulationData​.net, dated 2008, the gap is even more greater. The US would have productivity of $46,670/1,792 hrs = 26.04, and France would have $44,606/1,453 hrs = 30.70, an astonishing 18% higher in terms of productivity.

However, the methodology itself is not very accurate. It does not take cost of living into account. Nonetheless the data is available in the UBS report. Also, the GDP per Capita used in the calculations are nationwide averages, not ones of the specific cities. The rough calculation does present us a different perspective as to how we should work (or not work).”

Well if it IS accuarte which there is some doubt. Congrats, the french are more accurate by a whole.….….….…… 2%

Wow i feel owned. Whats that sound.…..OH SHIT THE GERMANS!!!!

“OK, Robbie: Let’s break up the World’s greatest military alliance over “Afghanistan“and “Kaddhafi”. You do the honours.

Because waging such blatant Crusades for Westernization in two darkie continents was always at the core of the Alliance’s concept.

P.S.: Congratulations for having survived your Era for so long”

Congrats on still being the most Assinine dickheaded racist in the world.

“Darkies” eh? I wonder if i ask my brother whos Half black if “Darkies” is a racist slur what he will say.

To the poster “Belesari”

You wrote: ” ‘Darkies’ eh? I wonder if i ask my brother whos Half black if ‘Darkies’ is a racist slur what he will say.”

He’ll say “Unlucky me”.

National Referendum Proposal No. 5 was first initiated by You Si-kun (Yu Shyi-kun), former Premier of the ROC and former chairman of the Democratic Progressive Party. The topic was “Application to become a new member of the United Nations under the name “Taiwan”“
“ In 1971, the People’s Republic of China joined the United Nations, replacing the Republic of China and causing Taiwan to become an orphan in the world. To strongly express the will of the people of Taiwan to enhance Taiwan’s international status and participation in international affairs,

Do you agree that the government should apply for UN membership under the name “Taiwan”

Yes 5,529,230 94.01%

The ‘people’ aren’t interested. And yes he did lie. You have a swell weekend too.

So your admitting your a blatant racist POS?

Wow i thought Darkies was something relegated to the 1950’s.

Glad im not part of the enlightened European Union.

PS. For those of you who are citizens of EU countries i appologise but That is the Core of why i hate euro countries.

Arrogant racist hypocritical BS.

I agree with Belesari, if there were a real need what precisely would you ill equipped louts use to stop us from using Azores, Diego Garcia, Greenland? Qaddafi has been giving you the finer for over 90 days and you can’t even give it back without US planners, aerial tankers, and EW support.

finger

By my back-of-the-envelope calculations, he proposed $400B reductions amount to a 10% reduction in the baseline, in effect a .4% reduction in defense spending over GDP. Not insignificant, but you are in effect demanding that the allies do more while we do less. It never works like that. America has to lead by example.

In 1971, ha ha ha, alot has happened since 1971.
You might not have noticed.

Taiwan is a democracy now — makes it hard to get 94% on anything for a start.

Too true, the rights of French citizens seem strange to many Americans these days. We were once proud of our rights but now we largely are proud of how scared we are.

try taking at the data from 2010. Americans spent several decades where they were way overpaid. That is now begin corrected with the devaluation of the dollar. When the process is finished we will be a low wage low productivity nation.

What is quite amazing is that the average American supports this.

Just another eastern European with a chip on his shoulder. And we exploit it by telling them they are new Europe and extracting concessions for baubles.

The right to never get fired for under-performing? Who knew that was in our Constitution.

Under-performing ? You don’t understand the statistics. Long holidays and summers chatting at cafes you mean. And I can personally recommend the Cafes of Aix-en-Provence in summer.

The French get the job done and then have a life. Infinitely preferable to the low productivity wage slaves we have to hire in the states.

Spoken like someone with time to sail the Mediterranean, almost got a PhD in econometrics, and who generally badmouths everything about the U.S. military unless its an F-16 that no longer will survive future conflict air defense radars or against Russian and Chinese stealth jets. Or is it Chet? Whoever you are, you sound like someone is drooling at the prospects of Taiwan getting new F-16s.…thus joining the ranks of “lying-thieving” contractors you so despise.

So now I know why your always shilling for Airbus anytime the tanker topic comes up. Maybe the Rafale will finally win an export order.

Hmmm, don’t Singapore and Taiwan have F-16s?

Oh here’s another item for those who wonder about Oblat’s agenda.

Is it just a coincidence that Aix-en-Provence that Oblat cites (on the Mediterranean), is just 25 miles from La Ciotat from which a certain Mr. Chuck Spinney recently sent an article to Time Magazine’s Battleland blog?

Isn’t google wonderful.

Another coincidence. A certain Mr. Chuck Spinney posted again on Time’s Battleland blog from Bandol, France, the home of Chappele des Oblats.…and also in Aix-en-provence.

To the poster “Guest”

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Part 1 / 2

“About Chuck Spinney
Franklin (Chuck) Spinney retired from the Defense Department in 2003 after a military-civilian career spanning 33 years. The latter 26 of those years were as a staff analyst in the Office of the Secretary of Defense. During this period, he appeared as a witness in many congressional hearings before the Budget, Armed Services, Defense Appropriations and Government Affairs or Reform and Oversight committees of the U.S. House and Senate. (…)
His critical plans/reality analysis of the Reagan defense program landed him on the cover of Time Magazine (March 7, 1983). (…) ”

Etc., in:
http://​battleland​.blogs​.time​.com/​a​u​t​h​o​r​/​c​h​u​c​k​s​pin

(Continued)

Part 2 / 2

If THAT’S the honourable (“troll”) Monsieur “Oblat”, then he has even infinitely more professional authority to be a full-time “D.o.D. Buzz” editor (“emeritus”) than gruff Mr. Colin Clark! Still, the writing styles of “Oblat” and of Mr. Chuck Spinney seem to be a little bit too different to me to be identical. I could be wrong, of course, but I also always had a totally different idea of “Oblat” (not a French like me), his true (European) nationality, his military “background”, etc. . One example: In the same “Battleland.blogs” which you quoted, Mr. Chuck Spinney’s bio says (and I’m sure you read it, too!) :

(Continued)

Part “3 / 2″

“After retiring, Chuck and his wife moved aboard a 12 meter sailboat, crossed the Atlantic in 2005, and since then they have been sailing and living in Mediterranean Sea.”

I REPEAT , for those who don’t pay attention to detail: “Chuck and his wife”, and: “…since 2005 they…” !

Still no spark?!

Anyone who knows “Oblat” here on “D.o.D. Buzz” for more than 6 months knows his only personal defect: HE’S COMPLETELY GAY … ! Just go through “D.o.D. Buzz“‘s D.A.D.T. / gay soldier rights articles again.

(Continued)

Part 4 / 2 (damn you, “D.o.D. Buzz!)

I’m not trying to protect “Oblat“‘s identity in any special way, just stating some evidences. Does that “Mr. Chuck Spinney” character really seem to be “Oblat” to you? If not (“reasonable doubt”), leave both in peace. Remember, there are some real nutcases out there in the Net, and not only civilian ones. E.g.: The COWARD C.I.A. has repeatedly dragged MINORS out of their classrooms and terrorized them for what they wrote on “Twitter” or “Habbo”. etc.!

Funny Gates opened his mouth right before leaving his post — what a bold move.
America has it own share of guilt — look at the BMD exposure of Poland and Czech republic, and once new president is in power, he makes 180 degree turn. From industial point of view, F-35 is clear example of inadeqate political pressure on allies (namely smaler European NATO members), reaching into party and government levels.
I´m not sure most European NATO members ever wanted second war in Iraq, yet they got involved anyway. US industry in Europe was neither much beneficial — the ultimate mission is to eliminate competition, not to boost defense capabilities. Gates missed yet another good opportunity to remain silent. Go home, Bobby!

Part 2 / 4

Beware of some E. coli left behind – if you and your djoow masters didn’t create this artificial, skin-to-skin-transmissible, antibiotics-resistant strain yourselves and release it ONLY in Germany and ONLY now as a punishment for Germany’s abstention in this latest djoow war against Kaddhaffi. Which I sincerely believe: Historically, djoows always poisoned European wells.

(Continued)

Part 3 / 4

But after you occupy our European, half-submerged volcano, you might as well demolish the Pentagon and spend its budget in nobler = civilian ways. The reason: A sudden spike in E.U. arms exports (like anti-matériel rifles, sound suppressors, night scopes, sophisticated I.E.D. triggers, unmarked explosives, mines, E.F.P.s, MANPADS, anti-tank missiles, billions [ € ] for the National Council of La Raza, the Black Panthers, the Aryan Brotherhood and uh… global uhh… “liberation movements”, decompilers, 1-Kbit-encoding / –decoding machines, blueprints, secrets, databases, malware, money printing machines, fake passports, supercomputers, stealth-seeing radars, air-air-missiles, ghost subs, spy sats, advanced centrifuges, etc., etc. : Forgive my technical vagueness, but I really only have an amateurish understanding of all things military). Or… we could alternatively organize the global, illegal arms trade ( = a whiff of our “soft power”).

(Continued)

Part 4 / 4

So much only about our “toothless, aircraft-carrier-less, defenseless Europe”. If you EVER towed home a single of our priceless icebergs and didn’t immediately recall all your invaders everywhere, you WILL MISS being in Vietnam, Somalia and Afghanistan afterwards, wherever you are! Earth will be turned into an Americans-free zone.

(P.S.: My personally preferred, peaceful retaliation for even as little as landing on a France-bound asteroid? Mass-production and export of all U.S. products – regardless of your patent rights)

The hegemony of the empire as inspired by the banskters is still what you are oveooking. nice lexicon there though — salute. When I say throughout history, please remember the draft ended in 1973. And, the “non-sequiter”/“higher cognitive” here is that Americans are essentially brainwashed to join/ serve a “Patriotic” mission (not the case). Not jaded, and, the only help I need, is what the United States of American (vs. the corporate U.S.A.) needs, to stop the Federal Reserve and the likes of NATO from stealing our/the world’s wealth. Perhaps if we sent our special forces to the European banking houses and reclaimed their ill-gotten loot, I could wax philosophically in my well-accommodated welfare state where defense spending has been cut to allow the sheeple some sense of dignity so they don’t feel the sting of austerity measures and seek out the root cause of the world’s problems — again — the hegemony of the empire as inspired by the banskters.

i’ll go check into some of that bankster stuff. thanks for the tip. so basically the world sucks. even still there’s plenty to enjoy here until we shuffle off this mortal coil. and however things have turned out, it’s better than scrambling to survive through post nuclear holocaust. since you’ve got all this knowledge and experience, have you thought about applying it in a more leadership role, or would you rather stay anonymous and post cheeky, cranky posts?

If NATO sucks, let’s please stop paying for their HUGELY expensive missile defense…a defense that does not even work! ;)

Agree, world is what you make of it — quite a wonderful school house~! cranky rants are my specialty (ha ha), but, was tea party way before it was cool. Don’t get me started about the reptilian puppet master though! Regards.

Don’t stop at NATO…the US should insist upon a relocation of the United Nations…Haiti would be an excellent new site! The world is not “in love” with us…the UN is a forum for hate-mongering against our country…and they have the adacity to do this in New York City…when are we going to wake up and pull most of our financial support away from the UN and send them packing to Port-au-Prince.…soon, I hope!!!

I agree NATO really SUCKS. NATO is really something of the past. I, for a long time have thought the USA would be better off if we pulled out of NATO. NATO wants the only USA to finance their weak ways. We would not be involved in Libya financially or otherwise if we left NATO. Nato also wants too much control of us and they are much too liberal. I agree with others that NATO should relocate in Europe as there are many countries there that would welcome them. There are a lot of people and countries that do not care about the USA but want our money which we cannot any longer afford to dish out.

lol you guys crack me up.

Gentlemen and ladies

Unfortunatly your missing the point if the US pulls out of Nato and leaves our bases we will have by nasessity reduce our military forces by over 50% to deal with the fact that the troops will have no where to go remember Brac this will also shrink the DOD therefore the military budjet we will also be diminished on the world stage making the US an isolated friendless and a vertual irelivence with thousands of unemployed soldiers no credible defenses and a vast economic defisit made worse by short sited hill billies who dont learn the lessons of history isolationism dosent work it just makes you an easy target for anyone that might wish to exploit your weaknesses.

Well finally he speaks the truth even if it is a parting shot. We can certainly say the same about that other failed dinosaur, the UN.

Just look at the fall of Rome and other empires if you want and ideas of how the rott starts stay strong keep the outposts strong and you stay safe withdraw to your heartland and your enimies that curently face the strong walls of your forts overseas will be able to reach your curently safe pastures keep NATO intact keep our aliences such as Britain strong that deployes with us every time we fight they are right thair with us keep America strong and stay vigilant lest we wind up as just another failed power and a little remembered footnote on the pages of history.

Good job Mr. Gates. The rest of the world needs to step up to the plate. The U.S. is getting tired of taking care of everyone elses problems. NATO does not suck, it just lacks the cohesiveness it requires to be effective. Everyone in the world will soon be rudely waken when the U.S. dollar no longer supports them. My recommendation to the world–stop whinning and get your act together–Big Brother America has their own problems–start taking care of your own messes!!!

I believe they didn’t want to be in the Middle East and it shows every country that has gone into the Middle East to lord over these people has eventually come home after spending millions of dollars and the loss of life. I was never for the war since most of the hijackers on those planes on 9/11 came from Saudi Arabia, but we didn’t invade that country. Why!?

Because our then President was borrowing money from Saudi Arabia and China.

What Americans don’t get is that not all countries want to go around fighting wars, and you get these wars because of the same military industrial complex both George Washington and Dwight Eisenhower warned us about.

Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto. — Thomas Jefferson

Do people really think you can invade two countries and send drones into several other countries without money. As long as war is profitable to the military industrial complex of corporation that use the corporate welfare of the taxpayer to eat out of their rice bowls, the US will always be fighting someone, and wanting others to foolishly follow, never follow a fool on his quest.

OMG ! why oh why do we tolerate having supply the world with money, wepons,security, and other ” aid ” that they should be able to provide them selves.
Gates, that was a long time comming, shouldda said all that before you were on your way out, some help huh?

Yeah, great. Let’s spend $25 billion on the framework of a grand building then sudenly stop before it’s finished because you think you’ve spent too much. On the bright side, there will al be the framework you can point and say, “Look what I did.” Oops, I mean you could say, “Look what I didn’t finish. Isn’t it . . er, I mean couldn’t it have been great?”

Now, here is something the politicanscan cut out of the defense budget; stop being the world’s police and leave benefits to veterans and retiree’s alone!!!

It was pretty obvious whemn NATO members failed to support the USA on many decisions for world events that appeared to be a serious threat! The USA had to eventually go alone, and one that sticks in my mind is the several decisions that Turkey made, that really screwed things, AFTER THEY AGREED to support military moves against the Moslems, as a threat to everyone in their neighborhood!!! Then another that revoked their diplomatic previlage to fly over their Country’s skies, with our military aircraft? Check your history, I’m sure you can find many more incidents for thr USA to say SCREW you NATO members!!!!

I’m with you Gates, forget supporting nations that do not and most likely have not put any of their resourses toward the cause of freedom and Independence for their own counties. America will no longer be held responsible for their military aide etc. I have mentioned this to people I “once” knew and called my friends on these internet forums and they actually scoffed at the very idea of us not flat out giving them or anyone else money or military aide to countries who demanded it for whatever they felt was necessary. I told them, you other countries had better find a way to defend yourselves, because we’re not going to do it for you very much longer and then was forced to delete these people when they started acting like children who didn’t get their daily cup of ice crea at school when I explained my feelings to them about the worlds economy and how it effects everyone etc.

Some off the things Gate’s said are true about some of the nato members. But being an ex british soldier there has been plenty of British blood spilt in Iraq and Afghanistan” serving along side American soldiers (forces)who have also bleed try to keep the world free from tyrants and terrorists.
Their are people in Britian who believe that some countrys within nato do not pull their weight with the fight against tyrants and terrorists.

NATO was created to keep the Ruskis out of, the Krauts down and the Yanks in. 60 years on the world has changed and we now have EU that has no enemies except migrants from Middle East and Africa. Now the f Krauts are on top, the Ruskis have no military worth anything but want to buy prime real estate in the EU and US, and the Yanks are being wanked by the EU and Israel. Time to change.

Hey Gates,

NATO is obsolete. Bring US forces home so they can spend
their money in our economy and not the host nation’s economy. Maybe then some GI’s can find American girls.

Wow — someone finally had the guts to dare to mention that the Emperor has no cloths!!!

NATO = No Action, Talk Only

NOT ONLY SHOULD THE U.S. RID NATO IT SHOULD GET RID OF THR U.N. AS WELL AND WE DO NOT NEED TO BE THE POLICE OF THE WORLD,IT’S TIME TO SAY OUR GOOD-BYE’S AND TAKE CARE OF AMERICA FIRST & AS FOREIGN AID GOES,THAT NEEDS TO STOP PERIOD.
WE DON’T NEED TO GIVE MONEY AND AID TO PEOPLE THAT HATE OUR GUTS LET THEM FIGHT THERE OWN BATTLES,LIKE THE SAYING GOES GAS,GRASS OR ASS BUT NO FREE RIDES.
BRING ALL OF OUR PEOPLE HOME,SHUT DOWN THE BORDERS AND SEND THE PEOPLE HERE THAT ARE NOT BORN IN THE U.S. BACK TO THERE COUNTRIES,NO ANCHOR BABIES,ILLEGAL IMMIGRINTS,

My thoughts exactly ! Now we must move in that direction with haste and purpose rather than just think about doing it.

We’ve been bailing on the UN for a lifetime, sadly it will never happen.

Well, there is a real question as to whether this marriage can, or should, be saved. The old saw went that the purpose of NATO was to keep the Americans in, the Russians out and the Germans down. By that measure, the alliance has done its job admirably and should be allowed to die a quiet, dignified death. By demanding that NATO-Europe do things that were never envisioned by those who crafted the original charter, the US could be fairly criticized for trying to force the alliance to be about operations it was never supposed to be about; i.e., so-called “out of area” operations. It’s one thing to REQUEST that our allies assist us in such operations. It’s quite another thing to DEMAND that they do so. I can say with pretty high confidence that the framers of the NATO treaty, back in 1949, had absolutely no idea of NATO being turned into an alliance of nations to support the US in its preventive wars and wars of (I don’t even know what to call what is now going on in Iraq and Afghanistan) wars of “democracy expansion?” But, whatever you call them, there’s NOTHING like them in the NATO Charter. Nope. Nothing at all. And, as for Gates’ “threat” that “some day” Americans will lose interest in NATO; well, to me that’s not a threat, that’s a goal to be achieved. It seems to me that it is now time for NATO, as we used to know it at least, to go away. What it will be replaced by is anyone’s guess. But, I don’t think that it has much longer to go in its current form, especially if the interests of the US and those of the Western European nations continue to diverge. The “Soviet Threat” is just no longer there to bind them together.

Navy_Nuke,
congrats for the so far first thoughtful comment on this article.

What posters here universally seem to miss more or less completely is what NATO actually was about. It was conceived, at least nominally, as an alliance of the European Free World against the Soviet Block. The alliance worked fairly well because there was a great degree of agreement over its existence and there were shared interests in countering it. That threat is now gone. NATO has been seeking for new tasks ever since.

Yes, the US were the strong partner in the alliance, and I am for my part grateful for the support they gave us against the Reds. So far so good.

It is not now and never was about vassalship to America. We’re not your Ghurkas. This is also not about unconditional support in all American grand follies — foreign and domestic — either, nor about blind obedience and subordination to US foreign policy prescriptions (which follow US interests (real or imagined) and not ours). What irks posters here is that we bloody ingrates don’t subscribe to the Imperial US claim to leadership? Well, why the hell should we?

Because America, in Mrs. Albright’s words, is the indispensable nation who sees farther than the lesser breeds, and we should see that and follow? My ass. America hasn’t, to put it mildly, exactly inspired trust in the sound judgement of their entire political class by invading Iraq, that not-so-successful attempt to re-shape the Middle East, or that economic meltdown that Wall Street’s unregulated excess has bestowed on the rest of the world. No flag-waving can change that. Sober up.

The US have their national interest and we have ours. Mostly they co-align, and that’s nice. When they don’t, well, here’s news: We won’t shoot ourselves in the foot economically by arming up only to please the sentiments of a nation that sees their bloated military apparatus (which sustainability in face of US debt and economic troubles is questionable) as normal. It is not. In all likelihood it is an aberration. It is a rather unique allotment of national priorities.

John Quincy Adams’s warned that America doesn’t ‘go abroad, in search of monsters to destroy’. His advice was not heeded. America, like Germany, France and Britain before, has their mission civilisatrice.

The NATO troops in Afghanistan were about expressing honest solidarity after 9/11, not about shared goals (which under US leadership morphed considerably from 9/11 to today). In particular we didn’t share the ever elusive goal of re-shaping Afghanistan into something like suburban Boston. Indeed, those darn Afghans and dastardly Pakistanis just won’t conform with US notions of how they should be. These scoundrels!

I work in support of NATO for DoD. NATO can’t get anything done without the US. We pay for more than 55% for everything and then we have to ask permission from NATO to use the equipment that we purchased. You want to cut defense spending? Start with cutting NATO loose or at least making the contributions fair. Fair meaning every nation pays the same amount. No more freeloading. See how long the so called Alliance will last. NATO was a nice propaganda tool during the Cold War to scare a non-existent and uncapable Soviet Union into thinking we mean business. Everybody got rich but It’s time to cut ‘em loose now.

Somewhat self-congratulatory, are we? Let me guess, the USSR was non-existent as a threat … because they lost? And America won?

Tell that someone who lived behind the iron curtain. Also, I recall being told in the early 1990s that these non-existent Russkies had aimed 20 tactical nukes at my garrison town. Incapable indeed.

Wow! NATO has been on the brink of being worthless for 17 years yet we still support this now irrelevant organization, why??? [It must be the Treaty…]

The UN is an observation post for all nations that want to destroy the US.
The cost of the UN to New York City would pay all the debts of the state of New York.
The failue of the diplomats to pay their traffic fines due to diplomatic imunity is almost beyond counting.
Move UN to Haiti — it would give them a national income.
Or maybe sharing The Hague as we are paying for both.

The old joke continues to be relevant: Need Americans To Operate.

The US must remember: they exist to ensure the safety and economic growth of Europe, making it safe from terrorists from the Middle East and North Africa, and ensuring safe shipping lanes through the MENA so Europe can increase trade with China and the MENA.

After all, it is the “US’s fault” that Europe has a third-rate military since the US has been there for the past 60 years spending money on guns while Europe was spending on butter for its population.

Ha, that is the whole purpose of being stationed in Europe. Just ask any male GI or single male GS employee, especially the “ethnic” ones!

I say when it comes to domestics the British are what you should go for. You can screw and abuse them and dock their pay and they they pull their forelocks and are so apologetic in shame. From Suez to Singapore they make excellent lackeys. Just look — in the same week the state department decided to start officially calling the Falklands the Malvina’s we had the British PM telling the world about how much he values the special relationship.

The old joke about NATO is that it was to keep the Russians out the Americans in and the Germans down.

But since the obvious future of Europe is the Russians in the Americans out and the Germans up you can see why Europeans see it as an anachronism.

The Europeans see it as an anachronism? No it is the United States who sees it as such. The Europeans want the US to continue pulling their weight.

Sorry, did you say something significant?

And Blows at the same time. How pathetic!

Let me guess Oblat, you are French…probably linked here through affiliate blogs, that would explain a lot.

This is the first sensible comment made. Why support something that doesn’t produce. They don’t even give us equal respect and almost always vote against us. Was of money and time. We are out numbered with the Communist and Dictatorships in the UN and they will never get behind us fully. If we support anyone it should be others with the same interest as we have. I personally think we should have kicked them out years ago and Diplomatic immunity with them.

waist of money and time.

Sucks indeed! NATO is nothing without the U.S. They want to dictate policy however are unwilling to commit $ or forces?! I say it’s time to pull out & a resurgence of isolationism is in order;“Dr. heal thyself”…

But our “European Allies” need it! Well, the CZ recently dropped out.

Good for them, they don’t want US money propping up one of their towns with rents and the GI’s stimulating the club and pub sector by cavorting and causing trouble in their clubs and with their women. Or maybe they realize they want good relations with Russia.

I still don’t understand with the US fixation of putting a missile defense shield in Europe (I wouldn’t know why Iran would attack in the first place since the French and Germans are the only major Western nations that trade with them and find ways around embargoes of any sort).

Poor analogy: US is much different in a billion ways from the ancient Roman Empire than it is from the Ottoman Empire, the British Empire, and any other European Empire that actually colonized conquered lands, taxed the inhabitants, forced them to do certain things, etc…

That was a big myth perpetuated 10 years ago, along with your rotting universities.

Why don’t you go enforce the burqa ban at your local banlieu before the angry french muslim riot du jour.

I heard the French government poured a lot of funds into Greek securities…

The funny thing of course is that I’m not French.
It just reveals how provincial people like john are.

I forgot, the correct term is “European.” And you do not represent all Europeans with your wisdom. I did know many Europeans that called themselves Germans, Hungarians, Latvians, etc…they are actually pleasant to be with.

Interesting hypothesis. He does sound like the angry, cast-off the US expat. After all, many of Airbus’ key leadership are US citizens.

The little informational bread crumbs are falling. I’m curious to see where his IP is originating from.

Please explain your proud lineage…you obviously spend an inordinate amount of time posting/spamming these boards. Corporate shill for someone and/or axe to grind with the US?

Dodbuzz must be your “homepage.”

He does use the term “our” saying that he is part of the US sometimes during his bloviations/rants.

The obscure region in France he mentioned is an interesting tidbit also, spoken like a tourist admiring a place than an actual inhabitant. Of course, the upper management of Airbus may work in such regions. I’m siding with the Airbus shill theory/angry US expat.

He does have a command of the English language and uses American slang.

The former Chuck Spinney sounds like he had principles and sided with intellectual heavy weights such as Boyd..Oblat sounds like your average, every day, corporate spammer but with a severe tinge of shrill anti-Americanitis.

Perhaps the Europeans should take Gates at his word and invest more money in their own defenses. Reallocating the money supporting the disastrous adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan would be logical.

Meanwhile it’s ironic that the SCO is on a roll. India and Pakistan are both likely to join at at the European end Ukraine. Belarus is already an observer. They are positioning themselves very clearly to step into the vacuum that the inevitable US withdrawal from places like Afghanistan will bring.

The Chinese are bringing growth, money and most importantly respect to their allies in the SCO. When you compare it to financial contagion, debt and the constant harping about failed American adventures we are offering it’s little wonder that the dominoes in Asia and Europe are falling to the SCO one after another.

Let’s see the “soft power” agenda actually do anything. Oh I forgot, each European nation is competing against each other while putting on a smiley face in Brussels.

I know you have a reflexive sense of anti-Americanism due to being an angry US-expat or whatever, and you spout the cliche collapse of America etc. and but to mention things against your thesis like the PIIGS inevitable collapse, and how a depreciated dollar makes US exports competitive, or how you failed to follow the news on Vietnam turning to Amerikkka in the recent Spratly Island dispute a week ago…

I assume SCO means the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation.
India and Pakistan together on something? You just lost 2 more points of credibility.

Big leap in logic by saying Europe would go into the SCO. Do you mean the EU or individual “member nations”? Russia hosted a “BRIC” summit over a year ago, not much unity among the BRICs other than the Goldman-Sachs marketing term. Each of these countries in the SCO have very different agendas also. UNO (unity in name only).

Just wave a flag when you’re finished with the rambling field of straw men.

Always amusing watching people blazing away into thee dark trying to shoot the messenger.
It reveals so much about their carefully nurtured fears and neuroses.

Damn NATO..Dump them.

I shudder to think that the U.S. policy still supports NATO in the most elementary way.… thinking back to the Clintonian Presidency I seem to recall that the then POTUS (Bill) allowed the UN to have its way with an American soldier who refused to wear the uniform of a foreign power (NATO) because he was committed to his allegiance to the United States and he foresaw that becoming a virtual pawn of NATO would somehow interfere with his allegiance to U.S. sovereignty. And I believed then as now that he was absolutely correct when put into the context of what Clinton had done at that time: his issuance of an Executive Order that indeed places the U.S. Constitution in check whenever NATO interests were (in his opinion) the ruling determinate for any given military situation. In effect a U.S. soldier wearing that blue helmet could be ordered into a military mission inside the United States to quell a civil uprising (I suppose Bill anticipated that the U.S. Armed Forces would never accede to such an operation and he needed some backup). It is a sad commentary for such a POTUS that any U.S. serviceman should become a victim to a new crime of a foreign entity and subsequently go before court-martial judges for having had the vision to honor his fidelity to the United States of America. If all of this is true then, let’s face it — there isn’t a one of our boys now serving in the uniform of our military who is safe from being violated by this foreign entity (NATO) that never lives up to its responsibilities of protecting our soldiers by reinforcing them in the constant struggles they insert themselves into. No soldiers, no resources = no backup. We carry the ball and all those other member nations enjoy the fruits of our labors (and the taxpayer dollars of our citizen).

I think your idea a good one — relocate them and thereby exclude their representatives (many our enemies) access to United States entry. Also dissolve any embassies those enemy nations may have within our borders (who hasn’t heard of the many times one of their nation’s citizens has perpetrated crimes within our borders and then run home to mama — the embassy) and thereby deny them political immunity — thereby frustrating our laws and our destroying our national security. I earnestly believe that if our body of government would think outside the box they would view with outright horror the notion that United Nations’ presence in one of largest cities is a cesspool of espionage against us and not, as thought in times past as a further measure of security for us (in the belief that no terrorist would ever attack the UN complex for fear of retaliation). They seemed to have sent a message by aiming those planes at the twin towers of the WTC, just a short distance away, and our Pentagon. We need to look at the UN much as we came later to view the League of Nations many years ago and decide as a nation “are we a sovereign nation or not?”

Funny! How quaint a way to open such a criticism — makes me believe you are a self-professed cynic rather than a critic only. Looking at America’s so-called guilt, let’s actually look at the POTUS who led us there — none other than Bill Clinton, the UN and NATO man of the century who has made us a virtual slave to them and citizens of the world rather than of the United States.
I believe that Gates’ disclosure was a wise one looking in the framework of just how those comments would have affected his ability to continue at his post. Do you believe he’d have stood a chance of remaining at his post should he have prematurely stated these things publicly? The answer is moot, of course. His effectively would have ended any chances of continuing oversight and control under any POTUS because they’d have summarily appointed someone else who is a “yes man” and that would have been that. Strategically his timing and his comments were and are of the greatest significance.. he can freely exercise his well-deserved retirement with the thought that his words have continual meaning and not that of a washed-out government employee — but one of a true patriot.

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