PAS11: Air show wrap-up

PAS11: Air show wrap-up

PARIS — After a soggy week at Le Bourget, your correspondent is closing down the Buzz Paris Bureau and heading back to World Headquarters in Washington. As the commercial and civil aerospace worlds enjoyed a big rebound over 2009’s dreary show — Airbus’ top executive called this week its best air show ever, with 730 orders –  it was a relatively quiet for the defense industry.

The defense aerospace sector is in survival mode now, hoping to recast itself as an ally to cost-conscious, risk-averse leaders in governments across the world. Its leaders still think they can stay profitable and keep growing, but their strategies for doing so are with comparatively unglamorous projects such as helicopters, airlift, and the U.S. Air Force’s new jet trainer. Yes, they always mention the new Air Force bomber, but its future is so distant and uncertain, and it’ll be built in such small numbers, that this week it didn’t seem to appear on the horizon.

Two of the biggest heavyweights in the game, Lockheed Martin and Boeing, once battled for the most lucrative defense deal in history in the Joint Strike Fighter program. Until recently, Boeing and Airbus’ parent, EADS, were locked in a death grip over which would get to replace the U.S. Air Force’s tanker fleet. Now these and other titans are scrapping over much smaller batches of fighters and other programs for important, but less lucrative, foreign buyers.


From the defense industry’s perspective, some profit, and the promise of steady work, is better than none. It knows the key now is to keep as much as possible of what it’s got. For example, the president of Boeing Military Aircraft, Chris Chadwick, said now that the company has locked in the KC-46A, it needs to focus “200 percent” on execution, so no one in the Building or on the Hill has any cause to meddle with the program for 179 airplanes.

The top government and industry leaders of the F-35 program, for another example, didn’t come to Paris with a slick “why your military should buy our jet” campaign. Instead they stressed that they’re turning the corner, everything is looking up, and there’s no reason for the fellowship to break now. Boeing, as we wrote, is hoping that it does break, because it thinks budget-minded governments will go conservative and opt for one of its older model jets.

What’s gonna happen? No one knows. The picture may not get much clearer until the Buzz Paris Bureau opens again for the next air show — in 2013.

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“The top government and industry leaders of the F-35 program, for another example, didn’t come to Paris with a slick “why your military should buy our jet” campaign. Instead they stressed that they’re turning the corner, everything is looking up, and there’s no reason for the fellowship to break now.”

Except for the following little issues:

1. 40–50 F-35’s sitting around in various stages of completion with no HUD and a faulty helmet mounted display that doesn’t work.
2. None of the three variants have been cleared for high alpha flight testing.
3. No live weapons testing or missile/bomb releases in flight have occurred to date.
4. Millions of lines of code still need to be written and verified through flight testing.

And all this after more then a decade of development and the largest fighter budget in history!

What a fantastic position Boeing is in today. After losing the competition for the F-35, all they have to do is sit and watch while the JSF Program and Lockmart blunder from one mistake to the next with the F-35.

A lot of truth there… Boeing is probably more than happy to fulfill the relatively easy KC-46 contract rather than develop a fighter that seems to be a victim of too much management, scope creep, and bad decisions made higher up in the DoD… not that any of that excuses some of the actions taken by Lockheed.

france have good radars, if they catch one furtive jet, you can be sure, f-22 and f-35 go to hell.
USA have say in the first foreign airshow of the f-22 “all radars off plz, when furtive jet fly”, after that some people continue to say, no these plane was invisible…
Like american when they compared the rafale and one f-16 in the same moment they compared the EF 2000, today the we see technical evaluation have ejected american plane, and we see one excellent rafale in the sky.
I will just say, USA make all of possible to destroy the rafale, give one f-16 gift, or their mythic f-35 (if US palment will…“for give one false impression to india, “you are privilegied”)
The fake world is over, USA go down, day after day, when others go up

Why do foreigners like momo never make any sense?

Because he’s obviously French and all they know hot to do is surrender not grammar or spelling.

The Rafael has just barely caught up with american technology manufactured in the 70’s. Some can argue that platforms such as the f15 and f16 are superior to the Rafael. You can’t compare the Rafael to the f35 much less the f22. Enjoy flying those planes against a country with a competent air defense system and gen 4 aircraft.

Google translate.

Mr. Ewing — very insightful and helpful write up. Thanks!

“Nuclear experts killed” Mmmm…. eufrrprc!? (european union — federated russian republic — peoples republic of china)

“Nuclear experts killed in Russia plane crash helped design Iran facility” “… worked at Bushehr after the contract for the plant’s construction passed from the
GERMAN (!!!empashis MINE!!) Siemens company
to Russian hands“
http://​www​.haaretz​.com/​n​e​w​s​/​d​i​p​l​o​m​a​c​y​-​d​e​f​e​n​s​e​/​nuc…

A “wrap up” — sorry it’s offf topic. BUT, WE (USA) are so getting played by the “puppet master.”

Oh you can speack french? excellent …
If americans imagine the world who starting in 1944, that’s not my prob.If for american french was surrender, that’s not my prob, american mentality don’t make great people.
Can you say when USA have win one war after the WW2, Korea? vietnam? cuba? gulf war (after 10years of iran-irak war and the necessity of one second war, what is the result? when french have say no, american lie about massive destruction weapons, what is american mentality reaction? we know the reality today, but american can’t change their mentality, so stupid people, don’ t be surprised if the large majority of the world hate american people).if we say one time USA is not number one, some american can’t imagine that and you are insulting.See irak, see afghanistan today, see your french bashing of surrender and white flag, ask you the question? how one war is win? it is very easy for fight one poor country without army, and say “victory” when you are in the capital, see after, see US prob, every program was cut, all program have probs, but the american mentality…

yea right, French invade Libya, then can’t muster — go figr. Sounds like the empire was waiting for O to pony up the bucks. Sorry French Fried. Maybe your masters are getting the mesuage~!?

For America the Paris show was a mix of no-show at Lockheed and old-show at Boeing. I doubt many customers were impressed by the brochure of lame excuses that Lockheed was handing out, or the stable of 50 year old nags in new paint that Boeing was touting.

Why so cocky Momo ? France has not sold a single aircraft for an export order, and has not won the India deal yet. Although, I think the Rafale is more mature in its duel-role capabilities then the Typhoon,
France still might not win it. Libya has proven that France and Europe do not have enough strike aircraft in thier war machines. Whats with this USA go down crap, Its not like France has not had bad economic times as well. The 2009 — 2010 strikes come to mind, and you should know this since your French. Is this Libya conflict sort of like the ” wag the dog ” for Sarkozy.

Good Evening Folks,

Well that concludes a another rather stunning non event. The worlds arms makers are not in survival mode, they are dying.

The current and future advisories, terrorists and non state groups, notoriously have no money. The major developed states have an excess of expensive weapons systems and platforms that are only sitting idle.

In economic terms supply exceeds demand, prices and demand fall, and firms leave the industry. The market is working as its suppose to. Old firms go out of business and new firms enter the market.

The defense companies that showed at Paris this year are in effect a last mans club.

What this industry desperately needs is another Hitler or Stalin to emerge on the world scene.

The major defense companies of the future, and there will always be more because humans have an insatiable love affair with war have yet to be created.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

Lockheed need’s an excuse not to bring over a F-35? Since when is this mandatory. Face it Oblatski, if they brought over a F-35 you would complain that they are not spending enough time doing test flights. As for why no F-22s showed, thank our “wise” leadership for halting production and further development of that aircraft.

Hopefully Boeing starts investing more into F/A-XX sooner rather than later. The Super Hornet and upgraded Strike Eagles are still strong contenders to any European or Russian fighter currently for sale.

I don’t know why you’re rooting for businesses to fail but the big three (aerospace contractors that is) will ride it out in the US.

invade? what’s the definition of invasion for you?
In libya nobody was against one intervention, nobody piss in the UN law for make illegal war.
Another example of french surrender…like the intervention ine ivory coast, gbagbo have win because french have give one white flag? no he was in jail.
USA soldier learn french experience (algeria and indochine) for make irak and afghanistan war.
Buy brain, american need new brain, stupidity don’t make one intelligent brain

“What a fantastic position Boeing is in today. After losing the competition for the F-35, all they have to do is sit and watch while the JSF Program and Lockmart blunder from one mistake to the next”… kind of like the Republican Party right now watching Obama & the Democrats going down in flames…

what was the goalie’s name in Slapshot?

Is the US still producing F-15SE in St. Louis? The F-35 seems to be having all kinds of probs. Its also true EU countries lack the strike capability of US aircraft. IF the Navy had 2 carriers there plus the AF flying out of Italy this would be OVER. Libya is proof the EU is toothless. We really need to look at our role in NATO also. Africa and Asia is where the land battle is gonna be. NOT in Europe.

To the poster “William C.”

————————————-

Part 1 / 5

You wrote: “(…) the big three (aerospace contractors that is) will ride it out in the US.”

Not with free trade and fair competitions anymore, only with massive lobbying and governmental foul play, to impose their inferior and/or defective aircraft (F-22s, F-$$s, KC-46s) on de facto option-less taxpayers. EXACTLY THE SAME situation as in the good, old Warsaw Pact: A State monopoly! But each time the U.S. government is UNable to cheat on behalf of Boeing and Lockheed Martin, especially abroad, you get sales results like in

(Continued)

Part 2 / 5

1) the Indian M.M.R.C.A. Competition (trust me: The prompt disqualification of all U.S. contenders on purely technical grounds will happen again and again, and next time in Brazil)

and

(Continued)

Part 4 / 5

That’s why I disagree with Monsieur Byron Skinner: The U.S. aircraft industry isn’t “dying”, it’s DEAD .

However, as long as they STILL have some cash in their pockets (from the rigged, farcical U.S. “competitions”, where else), the best hope I see

1) for Boeing is to forget about warplanes, to merge with Airbus (this year, China’s first commercial jet airliner showed up for sale at Paris, for those who can read omens. And for those who can’t: It’s way easier to develop safe passenger jets than J-20s. Although this may forebode something for Airbus’ future, too) or – at very least – to buy Antonov or Tupolev, or some big-selling Russian Space rocket consortium, to rejuvenate and dynamize the U.S.’ dying Space industrial base, too,

(Continued)

Oh crimeny, if the UN told you to jump off of a mountain top, YOU would?
Definition of INVADE:
“1: to enter for conquest or plunder (PLUNDER HERE, BOSS)
2: to encroach upon : infringe (nah, not in Libya)
3: a: to spread over or into as if invading : permeate (unknown and possibly Al Quida terrorists (rebels) in pickups have a central bank, millions in backing and are/were exporting oil … thanks to the World-Wide-What .… mmmm)
b : to affect injuriously and progressively” (“progressively,” you got me on that one … ha ha — you win) http://​www​.merriam​-webster​.com/​d​i​c​t​i​o​n​a​r​y​/​i​n​v​ade

Finish what YOU start, or, CAN’T?

Do you REALLY think it would take TWO carriers? :-) Seriously, most of the Europeans have not had the opportunity to really hone their air combat skills, tactics or strategy all that much since the 1940’s and the ROE has changed a lot since then. The other issue, and I think you were alluding to it in your two carrier + AF comment, if you get down the the nastiness of “steel on target”, the Europeans are a bit low on “mud moving” options. BIG chunks of concrete bounced around from dusk to dawn by BUFFs out of Sicily and B-2s from Whiteman could an interesting way to start a day filled with Hornets and Strike Eagles.

The F-20 was that “cheap F-5 like” fighter for third world countries but it found no customers when F-16s were readily available. The F-20 was a good aircraft but it wasn’t exactly innovative.

Lockheed has expanded to the development of other things than aircraft, including all sorts of sensor and weapon systems, plus judging from JLTV it looks like they want to start making ground vehicles. The Europeans and Russians are too proud to consider such a merger.

In terms of aircraft Lockheed has the F-35, F-22, F-16, and a host of various other designs, likely including some projects we don’t know about, like the mysterious RQ-170. When the defense budget takes a hit, they are going to suffer, but with some solid leadership the company isn’t in danger of failing.

The F-22, F-35, and KC-46 aren’t inferior or defective. Each faces problems they must overcome, but they will what they are supposed to. Meanwhile has the EF-2000 even gotten an AESA radar or full ground attack capabilities yet? How many times has that been pushed back now?

when i said american was stupid, that’s not one joke

Good Morning Folks,

The problem with Lockheed/Martin is to much debt service. They have way to much debt out their and doing what Northrop Grumman and breaking itself apart into independent companies and then selling off the business unit to private equity and end up like General Dynamics is most likely the only way L/M can survive.

The way it is now L/M is not competitive and will never be in its current form. The end will be what happened to General

Motors, a forced bankruptcy, government take over, cancel all debt and selling or shutting down all but core businesses.

From an accountants point of view with $65 billion into 158/187 F-22 that will require at least ten years more work to become contract spec. is to cancel the program. Wit an estimated unit cost current and still running of $347,593,583.00 per plane and they are currently grounded with a problem that it is estimated by the AF that will take at least two years to solve the F-22 has become one ole Jess Helms Rat Holes.

The F-35 cancel the B and C variants, they are not even close to being operational and neither appear will ever to be able to meet contract specifications. No per plane price is even being guessed at right but $250,000,000.00 per unit for the F-35A, the least expensive of all the variants is the current AF estimate.

Cancel the tanker order.

Move all future aircraft into UAS.

ALLONS,

Byron Skinner

The UAV mafia is the new fighter mafia it seems.

Seriously, consider the amount of trouble writing all of the code for the F-35. Now at least triple that amount for a next-generation UCAV. That won’t be pretty considering how often the DoD underestimates software challenges.

Meanwhile those KC-46s we ordered are critical to all aspects of our Air Force. KC-135s won’t hold together forever. Canceling the F-35B is the death of STOVL fighters for the foreseeable future and if the F-35C was canceled without a stealthy replacement, there will be a serious gap in the Navy’s strike capability.

Don’t know where you get this figure of $250 million too. All of the LRIP batches have been priced lower than that.

if it takes a UAV mafia to bring more innovation to DoD and break us from the fighter pilot chokehold on the budget then so be it. you make it sound like “the fighter mafia” was a bad thing. are you clear on who exactly the fighter mafia was and their contributions to the Nation? They certainly would not have approved an overweight, gold-plated, late, overbudget disaster of a program like F-35. Why is even all that F-35 code necessary? Are we sure we are getting worthwhile capability, or are we just going to get uneccesary complexity and expensive to maintain software and information overload on the pilots?

waste waste waste always the same tune from Bill.

Bring back the Phantom — with enhancements. Great platform — reliable, tough as nails and easy to fly.

“France is – you guessed it – using every possible fishy backdoor deal to try to defeat superior Swedish engineering.”…

… Double drivel. 1° The Swedes are as able to bribe as the French (remember Bofors in India?) 2° The Gripen might well be a better choice for Brazil in purely financial terms, but calling the Gripen’s engineering superior to the Rafale’s is a joke.

Denis Lemieux

It was an “air show” & “wrap up” story! Sheesh, take some deep breaths. While everyone is watching the “pretty planes” — and the newspapers dump important info off the end of the pages to put this article in our view — think about what is really going on in the “airborne war machine” business. The global elite (stationed mostly in Paris) are shifting the ‘war’ dynamic to a ‘police-state’ dynamic. Notice the lack of US aircraft contenders? In the future, it will be UAVs and littoral airborne sensor hyperspectrals. The F-4 still rocks~!

Momo, you’d be sprecken ze Duetsch if not for US. Some joke right? Enjoy freedom do ya? Show a little respect.

As a “dinosaur” Naval Aviator, I have watched the revisionist history of the various programs with great interest.

While Mr. Ziffle has a great point, as does Skysolider173, I would also humbly suggest that the F-14, with modifications, could once again be a great platform for two sleeves of our armed forces, with augmentation of a reconstituted F-15 program, and elongation of the F-16 & F-18 cycles.

The JSF concept was DOA — the TRIAD simply didn’t and doesn’t work.

p.s. — had the distinct pleasure of war gaming a 14 against 22’s and 35’s — gee, guess who won?

“Trade me right f***ing now”

Should not the DOD remember the F-111? Wasn’t it suposed to be a multi-service aircraft? The Fighter became a pretty good bomber/recon aircraft. Have to salvage something.

Russia won the WWII tank battles, not because of technical superority, but numbers and relative ease of combat recovery & repair. The A-10 is still flying, thank you. And thank someone, the AF did not junk it and replace it with “ground attack” F-16’s.

Doc in Louisiana

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