U.K. endorses India Eurofighter deal

U.K. endorses India Eurofighter deal

By Philip Ewing Tuesday, July 12th, 2011 8:10 am
Posted in International

The rumor among the Euro-aero-hacks in Paris this year was that all is not well with India’s Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft program, which prompted them to ask American industry officials if they thought they might end up getting another shot at it. (Boeing’s top military aviation executive crossed his fingers.) But until and unless something actually happens, the Indians are going forward with their last round of competition between the Eurofighter Typhoon and France’s Dassault Rafale — and the British government is making clear that it wants them to buy the Typhoon.

As Jay Menon writes in AvWeek, the British want a taste of that $11 billion contract, which they’ll get as part of the Euro-consortium that builds the Typhoon. But it’s not only the Brits — several European defense officials have apparently been making the trek to India to lobby for both pet jets, as Menon writes:

“The Eurofighter Typhoon not only provides India with cutting-edge operational capability, but also unmatched potential for an enduring strategic partnership in developing future defense technology,” said U.K. Defense Secretary Liam Fox after a meeting with Indian Defense Minister A.K. Antony in New Delhi July 8.


According to a British High Commission statement, Fox’s visit to India underlines the commitment at the highest levels of the British and Indian defense establishments to ensure that defense cooperation is a fundamental pillar of the enhanced partnership between the U.K. and India as set out by U.K. Prime Minister David Cameron and Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh last July.

He continues:

The Eurofighter consortium comprises Italy’s Alenia Aeronautica, BAE Systems of the U.K., EADS CASA and EADS Germany. Recently, France and Germany also made last-ditch efforts to boost their companies’ chances to win the fighter program.

French Defense Minister Gerard Longuet had pitched the Rafale during his visit to New Delhi in May, and the Eurofighter Typhoon topped the agenda during German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s discussions with Prime Minister Singh on May 31. German Defense Minister Thomas de Maizere also met Antony on May 31.

EADS has even invited India to become a partner for the Typhoon program if the aircraft wins the contract. Eurofighter’s offer to establish a production line in India could give it an edge.

The Rafale has the advantage of being logistically and operationally similar to the Mirage 2000. The Indian air force has similar fighters, and the Rafale’s inclusion would require fewer changes in existing infrastructure.

 

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commonsense July 12th, 2011 at 9:02 am

It’s surprising that only foreign journalists/publications seem to think that the MMRCA deal is going through complications. There has been virtually nothing to suggest that this is the case and things seem to be proceeding in a rather purposeful fashion. To much shouldn’t be made out of the Brits ‘promoting’ the Typhoon; the industrial workshare agreements on the Eurofighter will not change irrespective of which European leader visits India. Both Germany and the UK had taken the lead to promote this project.

momomimamo July 12th, 2011 at 10:01 am

seriously, the eurofighter can’t have better arguments than the rafale.Everywhere he make lesser than it, except for the power engine.I can be surprised if the EF win, really surprised, but corruption…

commonsense July 12th, 2011 at 10:35 am

I’m afraid it’s not as simple as that.The Eurofighter was designed primarily to be an air superiority platform while the Rafale was meant to be a multirole fighter with carrier capability. The Rafale has heavier payload and strike capabilities-will that be an advantage in India? None of the six MMRCA competitors can match the SU-30 in range. So it has to be put in perspective. The Rafale’s biggest drawback is its exclusive French nature which always means higher costs. The Eurofighter was designed to be compatible with American weapons from the start.

momomimamo July 12th, 2011 at 11:30 am

MMRCA is one multirole aircraft not one air superiority aircraft.
The rafale can use american weapons, that ‘s just the first version who can’t.The eurofighter is largely more expensive than the rafale, and was more expensive /flight hour.
All weapons can be adapted, the meteor is the future air to air weapons for these 2 planes, USA isn’t the single weapon maker, europe have MBDA, and in libya france have use ASRAAM weapons with excellent result.
India make his own weapons, and don’t will american stuff.

Can you say eurofighter adavantages over the rafale today? one normal spirit say “yes, the rafale is better”, but when some people have the french bashing in the blood…

commonsense July 12th, 2011 at 11:59 am

Is the Rafale compatible with the Litening targeting pod?the whole Paveway series of bombs? HARM missiles? The first two systems are already in Indian service and also being integrated on the Eurofighter. Sure all weapons can be adapted, but the question is would the vendor allow it? The French AASM is a awesome weapon, but it’s just too expensive. You can use a Maverick/JDAM/Brimstone to do 70% of the strikes an AASM can do but at a fraction of the cost.

The issue here is not the Rafale’s capabilities, which are beyond doubt, but rather its overall costs.

freefallingbomb July 12th, 2011 at 12:09 pm

To “momo”

You wrote: “one normal spirit say ‘yes, the rafale is better’, but when some people have the french bashing in the blood…”

Look who’s talking! Initially, France was invited to co-produce the “Eurofighter” as well (even several times!), but they always refused snobbishly and insisted on developing their inferior “Rafale” for NO better reason than having pathological chauvinism / Euro-bashing “in the blood” themselves!

Now, if NONE of the two B.R.I.C.s (Brazil and India) chooses the “Rafale”, and Dassault closes the production line after building the 300th and last French “Rafale” ( = soon), you can say good-bye to the last member of the “Mirage” family and to the future of the French warplane industry itself.

Welcome to Europe!

commonsense July 12th, 2011 at 12:16 pm

The Rafale can hardly be called inferior, if anything its a better multirole system. The French wanted naval and integrated strike capabilities for the Eurofighter concept to which the other countries were lukewarm. The talk of the Royal Navy buying Rafales a few years ago point to the validity of the french argument. The only area where the Rafale falls behind is scales of economy.

aSDF July 12th, 2011 at 12:35 pm

the main problem was afaik that the french wanted to lead the development (with ~50% share) and insisted on the m88 engine core, which was thought to be too weak i think.

momomimamo July 12th, 2011 at 4:22 pm

the rafale cost lesser than one eurofighter.Just see GB, the buy one total of 180 typhoon, for the same price france buying 280 rafale (with 50 rafale M for carrier).That’s not because the typhoon is better, that’s because multiple partners have increase cost.The first EF tranche will be cut if nobody will buy it, the second tranche will need upgrade and the third tranche was reduced and don’t was exceptional.France have one excellent multirole plane with excellent technology, only the motor was in the paper inferior, but that’s not one handicap.
See the reality today, the time who many people compares the eurofighter and the f-22 is over, in many exercice we have see that, libya is another good exemple.That’s not the rafale who was upgraded to was like the EF, that’s inverse.
The Age of multirole plane was here, f-35 is one of them, the technology have remplaced the power of one plane (motor, agility), the rafale have the spectra system, going to take new radar, have realised one better motor for UAE demand.India will the first plane in 2014, the eurorfighter was not suffisant mature against the rafale.
.

momomimamo July 12th, 2011 at 4:25 pm

f-16 compatible with french bombs? why not?
USA isn’t the cente rof world, that’s very difficult for americans to know that

commonsense July 12th, 2011 at 10:48 pm

Probably not-but ask yourself this-how many F-16s are operational today compared to the number of Mirage-2000s or Rafales? or how many such French weapons are in demand? And then ask yourself again the comparative costs of a weapon like the AASM vs that of a Maverick or a JDAM?? Even the French air force is planning to buy the Brimstone given the high costs of the AASM. A lot of major buyers-UAE/Greece/South Korea all use American weaponry and would need to integrate it to the Rafale if they purchased it.

Again this is not about the capabilities of French systems, but costs. I can’t understand why you dont want to accept that.

Robert A. Fritts July 12th, 2011 at 10:57 pm

Is this really News? Was anyone expecting British organizations to not support Eurofighter?
Well maybe you should watch TV all year for the Chevy ad that tells you the Hyundai Sonata is a much better car and costs less. Or wait for the Nike commercial to stop half-way thru and has Michael Jordan tell you the Addidas and Puma model are better? Sorry this maybe a E-zine but its time to start some real reporting.
Whats next a headline like “Warm Brownies and Cold Milk are really GOOD”?

Robert A. Fritts July 12th, 2011 at 11:00 pm

Actually with the current performance of the AASM in Afghanistan and Lybia it is now back on track. Brimstone is good, AASM is MUCH better.

commonsense July 13th, 2011 at 12:02 am

So why is the French Air Force interested in the Brimstone?? It’s currently filling up the AASM with inert warheads since its too destructive for most targets in Libya. And ofcourse the costs.
http://​www​.flightglobal​.com/​a​r​t​i​c​l​e​s​/​2​0​1​1​/​0​6​/​0​9/3…
http://​www​.aviationweek​.com/​a​w​/​g​e​n​e​r​i​c​/​s​t​o​r​y​.​jsp?…

Ian July 14th, 2011 at 11:56 am

Let’s hope that Boeing will be allowed to rebid for India’s multi-roll fighter program. In my opinion, if India purchases the F/A-18E/F or maybe F-15 aircraft will enhance their aviation abilities tenfold in regards to the Typhoon and Rafale. The F/A-18 and F-15 are much better aircraft for India’s defense needs today.

The F/A-18E/F in particular, is aircraft carrier capable with the ability to refuel with the drouge-and-hose system which is more ideal for India’s new aircraft carrier and other tactical requirements. The F-15 and F-16 are fantastic aircraft at nearly 40 years old. But they can only be refueled using a large aircraft with a boom refueling system. This equates to purchasing a number of commercial aircraft to be fitted out with the boom refueling system. Very expensive indeed.

If Boeing is allowed to rebid for India’s defense needs which ever aircraft is selected (F/A-18 or F-15) will be for superior then their Typhoon and Rafale counterparts.

yawn July 14th, 2011 at 5:35 pm

And how exactly do you propose that the Super Hornet takes off from a carrier equipped with a ski-jump? I hope you know that both the Mig-29K and Rafale have smaller dimensions and lower take-off weights than the Super hornet. And that matters on a medium-carrier with no catapult.

Both the aircraft you mentioned are getting old whether you like it or not. Both the European fighters are more agile and have smaller radar cross sections especially compared to the F-15. Besides the F-15E, which is the only F-15 variant is production is in the same class as the SU-30 fighter, which is already in Indian service.

If you want to the Super Hornet to re-enter the Indian competition, may be you need to convince the Indian Air Force that it’s poor turn rates and weak take-off performance at high altitudes doesn’t matter. That’s not easy if with an air force which has to worry about protecting borders with two nuclear powers.

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