SecDef: Despite slimmer budgets, acquisitions must continue

SecDef: Despite slimmer budgets, acquisitions must continue

Just because the Pentagon’s budget won’t grow as much as once projected doesn’t mean DoD can stop buying the new weapons and equipment it needs, Secretary Panetta said Wednesday in his message to the force. So who wins and who loses? Former Secretary Gates had a rough batch of programs he used to cite as essential, worthy of protection even in Austerity America: It wasn’t a formal list, but when Gates spoke about what DoD “must buy,” he usually referenced the F-35; the KC-46A; recapitalizing the Army and Marine Corps; and sometimes SSBN(X) and the Navy’s cruisers and destroyers.

Panetta, for his part, has not publicly fenced off any particular programs yet, but his Wednesday message repeated Gates’ old warning that major parts of the military’s arsenal are wearing out, and must be replaced even as DoD looks forward to a decade of flat or diminishing budgets:

The force has been stretched by a decade of combat. We owe you and your families the support you have earned – both on the battlefield and on the home front. To be sure, the current budget constraints will make it all the more challenging to modernize and recapitalize the force. Platforms from the build-up of the 1980s are reaching the end of their shelf life and must be replaced, and units and equipment that have been stressed by a decade of combat must be reset. Going forward, we must ensure that the military gets the effective and affordable weapons it needs by redoubling our efforts to enforce procurement discipline.


“Platforms from the 1980s” describes a lot of stuff — probably more than what the department will be able to afford to replace any time soon. When will there be some clarity about what gets top priority? That could be part of the ubiquitous, inescapable major strategic review, which Panetta’s message said will light the way forward out of this cavern:

I am determined not to repeat the mistakes of the past. In order to make the key decisions on how to best implement spending reductions, the President said in April when he unveiled his fiscal framework that “we’re going to have to conduct a fundamental review of America’s missions, capabilities, and our role in a changing world.” As a Department, we are following that approach. We are asking ourselves: What are the essential missions our military must do to protect America and our way of life? What are the risks of the strategic choices we make? And what are the financial costs? Achieving savings based on sound national security policy will serve our nation’s interests, and will also prove more enforceable and sustainable over the long-term.

The study is important, but it’s also important not to get too enraptured by Review Messianism.  It might play well with the national audience that has taken a new interest in defense, but it’s less than compelling for many in the Beltwoisie — defense officials use the “we’ve got to take a look at this situation from soup to nuts” tactic so often it has lost all meaning. The Building is perpetually looking down the road to some glossy new consensus document that it promises will have all the answers, and then disappears without a trace.

Well, that can’t happen with the Mother of All Reviews, officials would argue  – this time it can’t just say, “Yep, it’s a complex world out there, lot of ins, lot of outs, lot of what-have-yous.” This time it has to say, “Those Air Force fighters based in Great Britain are going away, and we’re no longer going to prepare to fight two wars simultaneously, so that means the Army can lose X thousand soldiers.” Whether Congress ends up going along with those kinds of recommendations, however, is another matter entirely.

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The F-35 program is the pig at the trough. If you are going to make substantial aacquisition cost reductions that program needs to be replanned. My recommendations:

1. Terminate the F-3$A and F-3$B models and only buy only the C model. Reduce the buy to half of the 2443. The C could be used for all services. This would save huge amount of money a accomplish the commonality goal that seems to have drastically been diminished as this program has dragged on and reality has had to have been acknowledged.
2. Restart the F-22 Line and buy 200 more. We need more Air Dominance fighters anyway and the F-35 never was the answer to that need.
3. Buy upgraded F-15s, F-16s, F/A-18s to fill in the force structure. Alternatively for the Air Force — Buy the T-X trainer to also have a light Fighter Attack capability to replenish the ANG and to serve as the low end complement to the high end (high cost) F-22s and F-35Cs.

4. Modify V-22 for the attack role off of LHA & LHDs to keep the “Carriers” relevant that Gen. Amos says we need.

“doesn’t mean DoD can stop buying the new weapons and equipment”. No kidding. The reason why DoD can’t buy enough weapons is because the investments are in perenially non-performing development h ell status. Since DoD’s priority is preservation of careers and reputations, expect these non-fruitful endeavors to continue. One of the tragic consequences of its failed planning and execution is that DoD will intentionally incur insane risks as they try to fly B-52s, A-10s, and F-16s into 2040+. The only way to break this vicious cycle is to wipe the slate clean of the failures, and modify the MDAP acquisition strategy to an incremental improvement one with shorter development timeframes. Do the high risk tech development and tech transition efforts in ACTDs or through DARPA, where failure is much more tolerable. Stop being so gullible: your contractors are taking our money and laughing all the way to the bank.

Quote:
“This time it has to say, “.… and we’re no longer going to prepare to fight two wars simultaneously, so that means the Army can lose X thousand soldiers.””

So which part of the world will we abandon? The Middle East to Iran and its terrorist allies? Goodbye Israel. Or the Pacific Ocean area to China and her trouble maker ally North Korea? You guys pick one.

The problem of the USA is what they spent Hundreds of Billions for new Arms but he get almost nothing for this money. All big ticket programs of the last 20 years have consumed hundreds of billions but nearly nothing was delivered to the troops. The USAF fly today the same fighters how has flown 1985 and the Army fights mostly with the same weapon how has buy 1982. In the last 20 Years nearly nothing has reached the troops and to fix this problem you have two options first you can spend enough money (you must double the acquisition budget) and in the same time you have to be not so ambitious by the procurement of new weapon, for example why the F35 needs thousands of test and more 20 Years development them Enemy countries like Russia or China needs just 5–7 years from the first flight of their 5 Gen Fighters to the commissioned? Or the other Option you must buy existing weapons from foreign countries how are already developed and the costs clear. It is really easy to find for nearly almost every U.S. weapon a much better and also cheaper counterpart in a NATO foreign country.

For example you seek a new MBT to replace worn M1A1 the solution buy new leopard 2A7+ how are much better and have the same standards and Ammunition and how are immediately ready for delivering.

Other Example you need a real LCS and Frigate replacement so buy 40 Absalon Frigates for the same price of the LCS program. The Absalon Class cost no more them a LCS1 but has more Firepower and Multifunction capabilities over the entire spectrum from Air defense to Anti-Submarine Warfare to troop landings and all this is compatible with the US Standard and based on US Technology.

Or another Example the USA is no longer in able to buy a big fleet of 5 Gen fighters like the F35 now hear the solution, first restart the F22 Line and buy 265 F22 more as consequence you get a fleet of 450 5 Generation Fighters and replace all 1000 F16 of the USAF with 800 US upgraded EF2000. Also replace all old Navy F18 with new F18E/F and developed a new stealth UCAV like the X47C.

I agree with the post, people use ‘reviews’ and such to put off the obvious. The only real way to save money is to give up missions. We aren’t going to stop buying high end weapons, if we want to maintain the ability to design and invent them, we have to keep designing and inventing them or the skill set goes away in US industry. That being said we probably need to lower expectations and keep reqs on Earth so we avoid costly development issues.

If we are going to do a review it needs to be a straightforward top to bottom ranking of value and need of system and what the options to those systems are of a lesser cheaper nature. That coupled with an analysis of how much capability do we sacrifice for going with the B option in those choices.

The F-3$ as you call it, is already somewhere around 90–95% common between the 3 variants as it is aside from an internal gun on the A, lift fan on the B, and folding wings and landing gear on the C.

Just how would you go about modifying a V-22 for an attack role, and why when we have AH-1Zs for that very purpose?

The commonaity is nowhere near 95% the highest is less than 40% : http://​ericpalmer​.wordpress​.com/​2​0​1​0​/​1​1​/​1​2​/​m​o​r​e-o…

The “Zulu’s” are sweet for a straight up attack helo role. Smaller than even an Apache and MUCH smaller than a V-22, so you can load more of them on an LHA or LHD. Unfortunately in an attack helo “escort” mode, they just cant keep up with a V-22. If you want to land marines in an opposed LZ, it would be nice to have more than just door gunners to pacify the countryside. A toothy, equally fast V-22 might just fill the bill.

“Terminate the F-3$A and F-3$B models and only buy only the C model. Reduce the buy to half of the 2443. The C could be used for all services. This would save huge amount of money a accomplish the commonality goal that seems to have drastically been diminished as this program has dragged on and reality has had to have been acknowledged. “
Ok and now that you’ve done that the F-35C carries all the developement and tooling costs; cutting the quantity that drastically would cause the unit price soar wiping out most of the saving by not buying the F-35A or F-35B… and guess what?-then you don’t have money to buy enough F-15s, F-16s, and F-18s.

True, but V-22s don’t have to go that fast all the time. Marines use combined arms to a tee, so if they are going into a hot LZ, V-22s won’t be going in there alone anyway.

I still think that regardless of budget considerations that the U.S. needs to be able to defend the Middle East and Persian Gulf area including Saudi Arabia from Iran while also being able to defend the Pacific Ocean area from a rising and more assertive China which is rapidly building up its military. That means being able to deter an invasion of Taiwan before it happens and deter another war on the Korean peninsula between North and South Korea. And if deterence doesn’t work then we need to be able to win in any conflict scenario in the two theaters. Europe can defend itself now with 2 million men under arms and Russia still trying to remodernise its army and airforce which will take 10 to 15 years still.

I think a smarter approach would be to implement a policy where we try and resolve issues instead of allowing them to persist forever. Of the three you mention, North Korea shouldn’t be allowed to persist. We should simply step back, admit the 6 part talks 8 years later are a failure. We should then be frank with China and explain our new policy is going to be one to exert as much pressure as possible to collapse the regime in Pyongyang, sever their access to currency markets, no fuel oil, no food, no economic trade at all. Pu the problem squarely on the shoulders of the Chinese.

In regards to Taiwan we need to make a decision, sovereign nation or not. If not then we should be working with China to re-integration. If Sovereign state then we should be pushing the UN and the world to accept this. Endless military funding of a status quo that does nothing for us is silly.

Iran should be the focus. Iran actually has the ability to cause a crisis that would have world wide economic consequences. Disruption of the flow of oil from the Gulf region would be catastrophic, so we no doubt need to have a 24/7 immediate response to Iran. Collapsing Iran is a much harder prospect since the do have vast oil wealth and everyone is loathe to do anything to precipitate the very economic Armageddon I’m talking about. Easily the toughest of the 3 nuts to crack.

Get rid of some of these issues that have gone on too long and we get rid of some of the need for preparedness.

“The F-3$ as you call it, is already somewhere around 90–95% common between the 3 variants as it is”

Yet another demonstration of why a fanboy’s imagination is not a credible source of info. The true commonality between all three variants is now around 30–35%. It can be deceptively inflated by adding in the so-called ‘cousin’ parts, but simply labeling a similar part a ‘common’ part will not make it fit…

Here’s a link to a chart showing the actual degree of commonality between the three JSF variants.
http://​www​.globalsecurity​.org/​j​h​t​m​l​/​j​f​r​a​m​e​.​h​t​m​l#h… Chart comparing common

The V-22 has horrible center of gravity issues, which is why they started developing the hell hole retractable gun for the thing. I spoke with one of the pilots out of Hurlburt a year or so after they started taking deliver of them. He said they can’t add much more to either the nose or tail, as it screws the hover characteristics. If you wanted to bolt on some .50’s amidship and let it do strafing runs that’s about it. But you already have Zulu Cobras and Apaches for that. Why risk a limited airframe?

Don’t you think that in your top two policy changes that in the first starving North Korea to death will actually start the war on the Korean peninsula where North Korea says if its going to go down its going to go down fighting and causing as much death, destruction, and chaos before its finally dead? And with China and Taiwan, Taiwan heading down the independence route China has said it would go to war over this and if we were to support this route we should be prepared for a major war with China including ICBMs heading our way. China considers Taiwan to be part of China the way we consider any of our states to be part of the USA and I doubt we would let a foreign power help one of our states secede from the Union. Your two policy changes are fraught with danger! :)

Yet we still need to put an anti-ballistic nuclear defense shield for Europe…? Score one for the economies of the EU.

Let the EU use its limp soft power without the US taking control via NATO for once. Lots of talk and armchair quarterbacking emanating from there for past couple of decades.

“cutting the quantity that drastically would cause the unit price soar wiping out most of the saving”

This is laughable, halve the amount of work and it still costs the same.

Lockheed expects the JSF will be it’s biggest earner for the next 30 years and it doesn’t matter whether it delivers 2000 or zero aircraft it needs to make the same income from the program. The economics is just a variation on an extortion racket.

Yea tell China that we are broke and pulling out of the pacific so they better do something to solve our problem with North Korea !

They would just laugh at you.

How fortunate Oblat that I don’t care what the Chinese or you think.

The current situation is acceptable? Lets see just this year the Norks have tested another atomic device and shelled the South Koreans. Last year they sank one of their corvettes. The year before that they test launched an ICBM in our direction. Allowing this to persist sounds pretty fraught with danger but I fail to see how doing nothing and allowing them to develop a deployable atomic weapon and proven ICBM is such a swell idea. I never said anything about my ideas being danger or risk free, it just seems the alternatives only get worse as time goes on.

The same with the Taiwan scenario, something has to give at some point, independence or reunification. I’m ok either way frankly, I just think sooner rather than later saves us a lot of money, and if there is conflict explain to me the common sense of maintaining an unresolved scenario that might evolve into a conflict with China advancing its military capabilities daily. As it stands right now we are debating selling F16s to them, which will anger the Chinese anyway. So how much lead time do we give China to prepare? Our position at the moment is dangerously contradictory with no end in sight and prolonging it makes it worse.

OK, if actually turning wrenches on this pig makes me a fanboy, then I’ll let you tell it. I have no real love for LMCO, but I have worked on this program and just trying to clear up some misconceptions. It may not be 95% common, but I know it’s higher than 35%.

As far as major components like actuators and black boxes go it is, I have swapped out parts between As and Bs before. Cockpits are basically identical except for the seats. AF and NAvy use two different manufacturers. Hyd/fuel manifolds and valves, tire and wheel assy for As and Bs, EOTS on all three…

Precisely! Artillery, Hornets and Harriers will work over the LZ before the troops arrive, but just as was discovered in SEA almost 50 years ago its still good to have a gunship or two applying some covering fire as the troop carriers are actually delivering their loads. You just cant do that with pointy nosed fixed wing and arty! Range is also an issue. Cobras are good but they just dont have the speed or legs to provide that “all the way in”, up close and personal firepower for that airborne assault with V-22s. The closest we come in the current inventory to that kind of “tag along” firepower would be to add a flight of A-10s to the assault package, but Im not sure that the ‘Hogs could keep up with the V-22s either! LOL! Just joking, Hog drivers!

The numbers dont lie, but sometimes the people tabulating the numbers have an agenda beyond just providing the facts!

I think that there are several “reform” movements to do much of what you say, but.…until the mindset is changed, there will be “careerists” instead of professionals running the programs at some level. We need more of the O-6 PM’s like the USN captain that canned the carrier-based F-111 interceptor in spite of the SecDef’s (McNamara) infatuation with the “one size fits all” approach. He had guts and personal integrity far exceeding his desire for higher rank and willingness to be the unquestioning program advocate that we so often see in those leadership roles.

Oh yes, in a capitalist economy, it is the JOB of the contractors to make money for their shareholders, legally and responsibly of course. However, never forget that it is the JOB of the program offices to make sure that the government gets its dollars’ worth, promotion potential is no excuse for not executing.

Is there any programs other than the VA class submarine program that has been a good buy for the DOD?

The “Zulus” came about because the “Yankees” couldn’t keep up with the 53s. The Zs are faster, more powerful and I believe have more range. Right now I guess if they are going to go deep in, the AV-8s can fly in with them, but for everything else it’s the Zulus. Unless they start looking at the S-97 as an option whenever that comes online…

The avionics suite commonality is close to 100%, the structural commonality is just under 40%, so he’s part right on that. The engine and IPP are the same as is most of the Hyd system components.

What makes you think a leopard is much better then an M1? It has no real world combat experience. Why are the Europeans always peddling their trash on our forms. The EF can’t really deliver ground weapons, so I wouldn’t call that a good replacement for the f-35. The only thing I possible agree with is the LCS, but again, it sounds more like European envy then anything else.

There you go we again. You are not part of we.

Know the Zulu quite well! Was in on the initial systems engineering and flight test ops for the Whisky’s (aka a Zulu without the engine and rotor upgrades), and like them a lot for their intended missions. AV-8s are nice but.… have a big problem with legs and loiter when it comes to escorting helos from a short deck ship, and particularly when hanging around “in close” to a LZ. Even with the V/STOL capabilities, once its in attack mode, an AV-8 is still a pointy nosed jet doing its thing at 0.8M. Speed is life for fighter pilots but it makes for very difficult CAS in close quarters.

For big, high dollar, high visibility DoD procurements.… …How about the M-1 Abrams (The Desert Storm “box score” was pretty conclusive!). The F-15, F-16, A-10, Apache and F/A-18 have all been quite successful in hindsight. I’m thinking that based on sheer longevity and flexibility, the Arleigh Burkes (DDG-51s) are also a success story, along with AWACS, and JSTARS. Toss in the Army’s MLRS based on the Desert Storm results (particularly when assessed against the reports from the captured enemy soldiers). There are more, but nobody in the press wants to hear about these! LOL!

If you are looking for a thread of commonality, start out with the fact that each of these had a definite mission and a high priority “need” from the users. Each was, in its time, a pretty advanced, leading edge concept so there were technical challenges and some “surprises” during D&D and the early stages of fielding the systems. The most important thread is, I think, that NONE of these were “systems of convenience” dreamed up to support a procurement bureaucracy.

Ah-hem… Are you REALLY going to suggest that the F/A-18E/Fs, and yes that IS the right designation, can not deliver air-to-ground weapons? And what weapons is it that you think a Super Hornet can not carry and deliver? Afraid that you may need to punt on that one.

But… Everyone is allowed an opinion.… .… . . you might want to check yours against the facts! :-) If nothing else, it will lend credibility to the rest of your comment.

I meant the Whiskeys. I’m obviously not a skid kid by trade, I worked 53s and V-22s, but I know quite a few of them. I do agree that off of the boat they may come up short on range, but if they are all deployed in country to begin with, range is somewhat of a moot point depending on the size of said country and their AO, IMO. Plus if they do need to refuel, the Ospreys can be used as a sort of flying farp to hotpit H-1s on the ground…

Ya got moxie kid, I like that! I do think EF the way he meant it is for the Euro Fighter, not F/A-18E/F.

Its true I don’t like either situation either. With North Korea I do support starting your suggestions and punish N. Korea each time they cause trouble with more sanctions instead of more cash and money or whatever we are giving them each time they make noise. That way when they misbehave they lose something they want instead of getting another thing they want. The more they misbehave and cry like a baby ultimately all your suggestions wiould be implemented and it will look like their fault instead of us adopting a hostile posture which will be bad for us in world opinion.

With Taiwan, we could encourage some kind of dialogue that creates a confederation style government between the two “Chinas”. Taiwan gets to keep all its political parties and the Communist Party of China can compete in Taiwanese elections. The Taiwanese military is the only military on the island but it can work with the PLA if China was threatened or be neutral in some disputes say with Japan or Australia (our allies). Perhaps Taiwan can send some representives to mainland China that can vote in their govt no matter what the party they belong to.

F/A-18E/F. Well-run program, on time & within budget. The Navy may not have gotten the aircraft it would have liked to have but it got the aircraft it needed & seems satisfied with it. Not cheap exactly, but no high-performance fighter is, and it’s not the F-22 (or the F-35) by a long shot.

That’s where much of the problem is: government oversight (or lack of it). E.g. shipyards are turning out crappy products & Navy isn’t catching the problems early enough to avoid massively expensive overhauls & rework. (See the San Antonios) An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

And turning oversight functions (e.g. T&E) over to the contractors? Bad idea!

Remember the managerial truism that you dont have to KNOW anything about the system or how its going to be used in order to manage the acquistion of the system! And if you really do believe that, dont look at the San Antonio’s until you’ve bought my bottom land down in Florida! ROTFL!

OK, Im fine with that, sounds like it saves us money.

Acquisition reform is just a slogan. This administration only develops a policy, drops it on the internet and waits for someone to implement. There is no carrot or stick to acq reform, so nobody will implement it. Program Managers and Senior Execs get a bonus if the program fails. They get a promotion if it fails or runs way over budget and schedule.
Until we (Taxpayer) force accountability then it will not change. We need to start bumping Senior Execs and Program Managers back to the slug line when they fail.

Nimitz Class. LA Class. TLAMs.

Way back when, my official USAF OER had to have a line in there that basically stated how much money I had spent in the last year. If I managed to spend $5m on my $4m test program I was, at least in theory, in better shape for making major than if I managed to get it done for $3m! Dont believe it? Ask someone who was in Systems Command in the 70’s!

That mindset still is alive and well. You can prove it by the veritable blizzard of MIPRs at the end of each FY!

And that term “accountability” needs some definition, i.e. accountable for spending all of the budget funds before 30 Sept, or accountable for turning in as much of the funding authority as possible? Accountable to the user for actually delivering the promised capabilities or just CPI/SPI?

By the way, do you prefer flint, obsidian or quartz? LOL!

Hey, who ya callin “kid”? Unless you had a chance to vote for Nixon… , at least twice, have more respect for your elders! LOL!

Looks like the original comment got edited.… just as well!

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