More U.S. forces Down Under

More U.S. forces Down Under

Australia and the United States have been close allies forever, and they’re about to get closer, according to press reports: Secretary Panetta and Secretary of State Clinton are set to meet with their Australian counterparts soon to sign agreements that will give American units more access to Australian military bases, including ports and logistics facilities. They’ll also mean Australian and U.S. commanders will work even closer than they do now, with “‘full knowledge and concurrence’ with full access to intelligence and maintenance facilities,” as The Australian newspaper put it.

Defence editor Brendan Nicholson makes it sound as though the Aussies have already been read in about the key role they’ll play in the Pentagon’s Mother of All Reviews, which, as you’ve read before here on Buzz, probably will call for protecting or even adding to the American presence in the Western Pacific as it thins and withdraws forces elsewhere. Or as Nicholson wrote:

The increased US access to facilities in Australia is expected to be a significant feature of the Obama administration’s ongoing global force posture review examining where US forces would be best placed to deal with future threats and uncertainties, including the increasing military power of China.


Mr Smith has ordered a similar review to work out where in Australia the nation’s own forces should be based. Australian and US officials are liaising closely on both reviews to ensure they are complementary. As US planners looking for ways to move forces around the world more effectively broke the globe down into regions, Australian officials worked closely with them on the Asia-Pacific.

US forces will not establish new bases on Australian soil, but they will be welcomed into existing facilities with the less politically risky formula of being given unfettered access to “places, not bases.”

American and Australian officials are betting that it’s wise to work out these agreements now, during a time of relative calm, rather than having to wrangle with the details in the event any unpleasantness happens out in the Western Pacific. The more safe harbors American forces have across the Pacific, the better fixed they’ll be.

Or to put it another way: If you bring up DoD’s official report on China’s military capabilities and turn to page 31, you’ll see the ranges of China’s various “anti-access” missiles — the ones Chinese commanders might use to keep enemy warships away to create space and time to operate. The various layers easily encompass South Korea, Japan and even Guam, but not Australia. For now.

 

Photo: Marine Corps //  A U.S. Marine trained with Australian soldiers during the Talisman Sabre exercise in July.

Join the Conversation

Thank God for the Aussies. Australia has to be considered a staunch ally, and trade partner. This agreement will be beneficial to both sides. We need all the options in this part of the world we can get.

Very sensible and logical move by both sides.

Some would argue this is long overdue but perhaps attitudes, perceptions and respect of Australia’s value had to evolve at higher levels.

Providing the fine print is as co-operative and fair as the published intent indicates both sides will certainly benefit as true allies should.
Mac

We fought against the Japanese together alone in WW2 they be with use and help us no matter what.

Long live ANZUS. But god save America from Obama.

As an Aussie, I say ’bout time and let’s go. We don’t have bigger or better allies than the US. So I hope our side of the agreement is a single sentince long:

What’s ours is yours.

America’s Southern Anchor?
<snip>
Smith made the argument late in his remarks. ‘It’s…unambiguously in Australia’s national interest for the United States to be active and engaged in the Asia-Pacific as economic, political, military, and strategic influence shifts to the Asia-Pacific…In this century, the Asia-Pacific will become the world centre of gravity. Australia’s strategic value to the United States is changing. The balance of geopolitics is shifting and Australia is at the southern tier of that central dynamic.’
<snip>
US policymakers and others in the US foreign policy community simply fail to recognize the geo-strategic importance of Australia to US national security interests in the larger Asia-Pacific.
<snip>
Some experts hope they also will influence Australian and US policymakers to support increasing the US troop presence in Australia. Supporters believe that the alliance’s strong tradition, coupled with the geo-strategic position of Australia’s northwestern and northern coasts (ex. Darwin and Exmouth) make Australia the natural choice for the positioning of new US strategic assets in Asia-Pacific.
<snip>
Read the full story at “The Diplomat” http://​goo​.gl/​9​v​X5n

Even the opposition is for it. :)

Come on down: Abbott says Coaltion would welcome US bases in Australia http://​goo​.gl/​l​o​Doi

Well, it’s nice to know our efforts are appreciated, we can’t do a lot due to the small size of our military, buy we do what we can! ;)

I’m another Australian, but I don’t share the sycophancy of my fellow Aussies here toward their American masters.
In truth there is a wide gap between the Establishment and their lackeys and the Australian public toward the U.S.
Most people don’t like the U.S, want independence from them such that the past decade has seen the scales fal from their eyes in perceptions to the U.S and its ways.
Bullying, tyrannical and unwanted sum it up pretty well as everything from Iraq and Wikileaks demonstrate to most people here.
A simple question to the servile Aussies on China;
How do you think this development will be received in Beijing such that we’ve opted for so called ‘security’ over trade, ergo; Why are we alienating our largest trading partner now (China) and what if China then decides to ‘up stumps’ and take their business elsewhere (such as Mongolia and other mineral rich nations less serrvile to the American empire)?.
Lets see the Australian Establishment scream when their blessed economy declines as rapidly as our national cricket team in this self inflicted wound

Jeremy i am all so a Aussie and you are full of bull shit, most Australians love the Americans. You sound like a communist a bit like most of the Australian MP,S.

Jeremy,

Sharing bases does not equate to servility IMO.

Maintaining an alliance with a democracy as opposed to a Communist State does not equal sycophancy IMO.

When it comes to unpopular actions,the USA isn’t perfect, Australia isn’t perfect are you quite sure China is any better?

At least we can talk to the Americans and they can choose their political masters.

Trade should be based on supply and demand not grovelling as you seem to advocate.

China regularly threatens to go elsewhere, they are still trading. They call it negotiating, there are other names for it.

Very little is in ‘value added’ exports to China though, so they’re not supporting Australian industry with their ‘largesse’.

Before bending over on the basis of trade, perhaps you should check who our largest Asian trading partner was in the 1930s. We were really important to them too.

A simple answer to your question from a not so servile Aussie is ‘we will survive’ and maybe we’ll get some better economic managers out of it.

You’re entitled to your view and you’re more on the fringe than you think you are.

Mac

As opposed to the militaristic monster in the western Pacific.…I think you’re stuck between militaristic monsters, you get to pick I suppose.

No disrespect to our Australian allies but the whole debate makes me leery of ‘alliances’ period. It’s the cheap way to base strategy and the dangerous way I think. We need to field capabilities that don’t rely on access to foreign basing period.

Dear Sir, As an AUS I think you will find that the majority of AUS public have a high regard of the US people. ‘Thinking’ AUS people also realise that in order to secure our future we must engage further with the US. I would hazard a guess that you are not familiar with the scope of projects we jointly work on currently. You ask a simple question: “How do you think this development will be received in Beijing such that we’ve opted for so called ‘security’ over trade” — and “what if China then decides to ‘up stumps’ and take their business elsewhere (such as Mongolia and other mineral rich nations)..” Fortunately, these other countries do not have the infrastructure to deliver…And will not have for a decade or two. God help us when they do.

Interesting. As an Australian I’m slightly insulted that you would find our bond tenuous. But then I like the idea (If you were King) that an abandoned AUS would have to fend for itself…Might give my country the kick in the ass it needs to re-tool, re-educate and re-arm…We have massive resources and all we do is ship them to SOK to be turned into great little cars…My Govt embarrasses me…

First off This in truth has nothing to do with any Obama plan, We have been looking into this partnership for quite a while now and is partly why we have been doing considerable port visits and upkeeps in Australia to see how things work out with both the govt and the population. While there are always going to be some type of clash (usualy in a bar over a girl or someone just being beligerant) for the most part we are always accepted and the locals like the economy boost during our port visits, some even set up mobile cantinas to follow us around during port visits. Our relocating to Austrailia and helping to increase and improve thier military infrastructure while pulling out of other countries that charge us way too much and dont really support or like us there only makes sense. It will save us billions in the long run and get us out of so called territories that drain benefits away from American tax payers giving it to non tax paying non US citizens. I have always been for it and still am. Now we just need to find one location on the Atlantic side as well.

I think Tibet, India, and Vietnam would beg to differ. I also don’t think the Vietnamese, Philippines, Japanese, or Indonesians, share your benevolent view, but hey if you don’t mind cuddling up to a nation that thrown people in labor camps for forwarding sarcastic tweets about the government have at it.

Look at your fellow countrymen ‘The Bomb’, you can feel insulted. but being leery when attitudes like that get expressed isn’t about trying to insult anyone, it’s about strategic planning that won’t let you down at a critical point. If anything I am about granting every nation the freedom to make choices they really want to, and arranging US capabilities to not have to rely on foreign basing is simply extending my own country the same courtesy I would extend to others. Nothing precludes Australia from participating in a joint environment, I just don’t want US national security needs dependent on the access to foreign shores.

I support this Alliance fully however i agree that The US should rely on such systems as Aircraft Carriers and Long range systems rather than a million bases every where with a carrier we can just move it to the problem area that with a expeditionary strike group should be all that we need to influence an area.…

Jon

To the Australians that hate America, i am sorry you feel this way but it would never change my mind to lay down my life defending your country if i had to. I have already in the very old days put my life on the line for you and i think it’s great that you have the freedom to tell us to go to hell this means freedom of speech is still with you. I am extra sorry that you all lost your rights to bear arms and keep your personal firearms. Now you are suffering even more from thugs who don’t care about the laws and do anything they want to. I thank God i wasn’t in Australia when these illegal laws were put in place to take away your freedom to defend yourselves. Long live Australia Your home will always be in my heart.

You know, some of the most scathing anti-American rants I’ve read have come from Aussies, Canadians, and Brits. Hearing this crap from, say Middle Easterners or Russians is to be expected, but from countries that are supposed to be our friends, well that really stings. I hope these are just minority internet warriors like the kind we see of all nationalities (including our own) on places like Youtube.

Stop fapping to Che pics and go outside for a little bit. Toss a ball around with someone. You’re obviously high strung and some human interaction might loosen up your hopelessly tight asshole.

“Look at your fellow countrymen”

I doubt he’s an Aussie, the last line of the statement above yours says.

“Quite obviously the Taiwanese are carved in a different wood than you Australians”

“You Australians” isn’t something an Aussie would say, it’d be “We” if he was from here, & if he does live here, he’s probably an immigrant who has brought his distain of the US with him.

Most people In Australia like the USA, we have far more in common than we have differences.

Hi Sgt, please don’t take the rambling of a couple of losers to represent the feelings of all Aussies, most of us would welcome the US military with open arms!

You’re absolutely right; the above people “calming” to be Australian are in the minority, the vast majority of us would welcome the US military with open arms.

You also have to realize that Australia has a rather large immigrant population (Asian/Middle Eastern); most of the negative comments from so-called Australians can be attributed to these people (many of whom refuse to integrate) that were brought up in countries where disliking the US was normal.

To all YANKS, we will all ways be in the same trench, we have the far left trying to change Australia, like they are doing in America. GOD BLESS AMERICA.

Sadly, I did try and air a detailed reply today to a number of points (while rising above the abuse and inapt criticisms I received), but I experienced some connection difficulty so my reply was lost into the ether.…
However I will attempt it again, thank you for your patience and understanding.
J

Sorry, I’m not sure what you’re getting at? What assumption did I make?

Bloody Redditers…

Hey — as an AUS I guarantee there are very few of us who ‘hate’ the US, or anywhere to be honest…Hell we’re like most western nationals — all we actually think about is meeting the mortgage payments and getting the kids through school!

Hey, let’s face it…you’d only need to base one squadron of Raptors here (AUS) and be able to take out our air force! Not too much to worry about…

We (the US) did have a base in Australia during the 60s, 70s and 80s, Naval Communications Station Harold E. Holt. This base was in the Western Australia out back on North West Cape. The US built the town of Exmouth, paved roads, opened an unused WW2 airstrip at Learmouth, created many jobs for the Ausies, and after spending millions on these infrastructure projects the Ausies kicked us out. I was there and most Aussies do hate Americans. We should distance ourselves from them and form alliances with countries that actually want us.

As a soldier who worked closely with the Aussies in Vietnam and went on R&R there, I love you people and no one can say a negative about them. Sure Governments can sway back and forth, but the people make the country. A friend will always have disagreements, but still remain friends. I welcome this agreement, even though i don’t agree with Obama on most points. I say thanks “Mate’ for having us.

China definetely has eyes on Australia’s natural resources. They need that iron and other minerals. Much like Japan invaded all of those islands for their natural resources before WW2. China will want to invade Australia at some point in time. Not because they like the Rabbitoes. But because they need those resources. Its a logical step to have the yanks take a knee to defend. We also have to defend those awsome aussie surf breaks!

Heck, China better than the U.S.? do you see how China treats its fellow commie neighbors like Vietnam?
Even they want us back!

Jon, I have it on good authority that land bases are harder to sink than aircraft carriers.

A lot of Outbackers dont like anyone — including city Austrailians (they aint nothing like Mick Dundee). Outbackers are a lot like our folks in the apalachian’s, if they dont know you from church or relation then they dont much care for you, same for deep swamp cajuns. I have been all over Austrailia and even though I encountered some attitude in the outback I got along fine and had a great time.

Sorry if you Yanks think that way, i would buy you a beer any day.

ANZUS is still alive, but it’s been in a coma for quite a while officially. NZ and American troops still get to train together, but not as part of ANZUS exercises, they have to be wider exercises with other militaries involved too. It all comes down to institutional intransigence, Americans in the singular or in small groups are greatguys, friendly, willing to share a beer and have a chat, but like any other bureaucratic organizations, The State department and the Pentagon groups including the Joint Chiefs of Staff all follow the mob mentality, where the degree of open mindedness and the IQ are those of the lowest and most closedminded of the whole…

Even with the No-Nukes attitude here, American troops would be welcome still, all it needs is for the US authorities to state publicly that the troops involved have no nukes, and they would be welcomed into NZ territory. …

The problem with that is rather than saying “Ok, this frigate is an itty bitty boat and doesn’t have any nukes on board, Tactrinal doctrine says nukes aren’t deployed aboard ships this small, can we come for a port visit and to play with your navy?” which would have gotten a YES… they instead went “We’re not telling you anything about our nukes, Forget it, Now shut your whining and let us come play with your navy or else.”

A little flexibility, sending ships that are conventionally powered and with no nukes deployed, and things would have been fine… but mob mentality rules out flexibility…

Well navy man I am a Aussie and I worked on that base . I and many other Aussies enjoyed working and socialising with you americans . Yes there was a culture of yank haters who worked their . Most of them were of english accent or the the beer swilling / smoking crickett loving loud mouth type . My interprecation of them is they were lucky to have a job . I guess it takes all types in this world . In general most people are happy to have our american cousins on Australian soil . We have a lot in common historically wise .

Hey Navy Man , Just a bit more to add . The Navcom base Harold E Holt , Western Australia was a part of the US Military draw down plan after the first Gulf war . At that time the US was cutting back its forces and infrastructer , hence the closure of the base under US control . The US was not booted out , It is now operated under Aussie control at about a quarter of its origional size . It was a sad time when that base closed down for the uniformed people and the civillian workers . Sorry you feel the way you do about Aussies . You must have worked or lived near some of the types I mentioned earlier when you served at Navcom Harold E Holt .
In general most Aussies feel closer to their American Cousins than their British Cousins .
Long Live the United States .

Although one is only a visitor here, a number of recurring themes and tactics are apparent here that I’ve noticed elsewhere over time.
Without prejudice; abuse and inapt labelling of different views is the first stage, (I’ve never been called a communist before!), followed by projecting their meaning onto points their interlocutor raises, then attempts to undermine the unwanted views by sugesting they’re in a minority and are unrepresentative of their self selected and self reinforcing interest group (in this case military issues and finally attempts to shame into silence (a common trait of Americans in particular) their interlocutor by suggesting that they are responsible for ‘saving’ Australia fromm some past or present nebulous ‘threat’ and thus we should be eternally grateful and compliant, as they believe in a paternalistic manner that the U.S is ultimately responsible for what we have today and we’re mere children unable to run our own affairs without the self romantic ‘benificence’ of the U.S. (Its little wonder most Australians take umbrage at this insulting self reverential paternalism accordingly).
Let me address a common theme argued by my fellow Aussies here; the minority argument.
I turn around your claims and ask you; How do you know that you’re in the majority and simply aren’t conflating your own affiliation with Americanism to the rest of the Australian public?.
So ladies and gents, lets see a show of hands; How many Aussies here who have corresponded on this forum are or have been involved in the armed forces, government or oxymoronic ‘intelligence’ services .etc?
Now come on, don’t be shy now, I won’t bite.…
Now ask yourselves whether you’re really speaking for ‘all’ Aussie’s or merely conflating your own self interested perspectives onto the rest of the public here?.
As Sir Humphrey Appleby used to say on ‘Yes Prime Minister’; ” He has sat on the fence for so long that now he has become one”!, in essence, conflating whats good for the U.S is good for Australia such adhering to such a mindset, they you can no longer separate the two having “gone native”. Only you can answer that.….
Cheers,
J

Finally, in terms of the specifics of the U.S forces to be coming here, as a member fo the Australian public (and none of the demonising epithets, attributed to me by some here), I’m firmly against this unwanted scheme as most Aussies long for an independent nation free of U.S meddling and domination in our internal affairs, such that now we’re a “Faded remnant of a garden flower” as Wordsworth once eloquently wrote on on another subject, a mere dominion or satrap of the American empire, where the political and governmental Establishment are widely separated and unrepresentative of the disgruntled Australian public, who (as one bloke here rightly observed), are attentive mainly to the struggles of daily life, but still harbour annoyance and opposition to the agenda’s propagated by the unrepresentative Establishment here.

Oh come on NM — that’s a slightly ‘goldfish bowl’ view of my countrymen. A bit like me spending a week in Amarillo, being abused once and declaring all of America to be crap. Come back over — I’ll buy you a beer!

GET OUT OF JAPAN & KOREA. AIRFORCE & NAVY ARE MINUTES AWAY. SAVE A BUCK FOR A CHANGE.

Hope your not refering to my comment about outbackers, as I said — i encountered some tude but for the most part got along fine and had great times. I think this should had happened years ago as I trust you guys and New Zeland a heck of a lot more than I do anyone else in the PAC area.

Not being smart. Obama isn’t the one that SCREWED UP the American economy. If you want to see where the problem started consider this: The state of the union inherited by George W Bush (strong economy, budget surplus, stong financial outlook, strong military, smallest/most efficient government since the Kennedy Administration), and compare that to the state of the union inherited by Barak Obama (shattered economy, massive debt to a communist dictatorship, military at its lowest state of readiness since Viet Nam, government at its largest/most invasive/least effective in US history). Despite how great Fox News told you how well everything was going for those 8 years under that disastrous administration.

Listen to what they say all you want: but if you look at the obvious results, then you’ll know who wasn’t telling you the truth.

To our friends the Aussies: We have the far FAR right-wing nuts trying to change American into a country more resembling that of late-1930’s Germany, who destroyed this nations finances and economy during the years of 2001–2008. The republican party, who used to stand for fiscal conservatism, efficient government, health care, protecting the environment, and strong foreign policy no longer exists in anything but name.

you may want to get checked for diabeties with all the cool aid you have been drinking.

Take the blinders off — when did you get into politics, 2008?. Obama at the beckoning of his leaders (pelosi and Ried) has repeatedly borrowed exuberant ammounts from china and others for failed ideals and programs that the repubs were against. He has spent more in 2 yrs than has been spent during our entire history combined. layoffs started during his failure to lead from 2008 and on — no one is rehiring because they dont know what he will cost them in the future. Put the cool aid down.

Jeremy Wrote: “How do you know that you’re in the majority and simply aren’t conflating your own affiliation with Americanism to the rest of the Australian public? “

Because I’ve NEVER heard anyone say they hate Americans & don’t want them here, in fact just a few months ago we had 2 US Navy ships come to Brisbane ( http://​goo​.gl/​U​H​8CFhttp://​goo​.gl/​N​V​cET ) on separate occasions & both times they were welcomed with open arms by everyone in the city, there was no public backlash, no outcry, no Yankee go home nonsense, the only people I’ve ever heard disparage a possible US deployment to Australia was 2 men of middle eastern appearance (who probably grew up disliking the USA) in a park, when the “Blue Ridge” was in town & now you.

Jeremy Wrote: “How many Aussies here who have corresponded on this forum are or have been involved in the armed forces, government or oxymoronic ‘intelligence’ services .etc?”

Not me, I’m just a blue-collar bloke from Queensland, over the years I’ve watched our armed forces decay to pathetic levels, we’re unable to crew ALL our subs, we got rid of our carriers & we got rid of our bombers, so now we have no long range strike capability, the F/A-18s have never been much of an Air-to-Air fighter, thus limiting our ability to defend against the Flankers & F-15/16s that others in the region use & our Army has NEVER had the ability to defend this country from an Invasion, in short, we need the USA to help out & if you can’t see that, you’re too short sighted.

Jeremy Wrote: “Now ask yourselves whether you’re really speaking for ‘all’ Aussie’s or merely conflating your own self interested perspectives onto the rest of the public here?”

If by “self interested perspectives” you’re referring to the continuing freedom of Australia & its inhabitance, then YES, & I’d hope to hell that the rest of the country had enough sense to want them here as well, Australia is smack in the middle of the worlds next great powers, China to the East & India to the West, either one of which could threaten our survival, or, God help us, we could be caught in the middle of a fight between them, if that happens we wouldn’t stand a chance without the USA.

Maybe you should stop being so narrow minded & open your eyes to the larger picture, our region of the world is getting more & more hazardous every day, if the Aussie Government isn’t going to increase our military capabilities significantly, then we NEED the USA to ensure the peace in the wider region, & if all we have to do is provide a few bases for them to dramatically increase OUR safety, then so be it!!

From “The Australian”

Smith is keen to hose down some of the more adventurous speculation about the future US military presence in Australia: “No one is contemplating US bases in Australia. We don’t have US bases here now, but joint facilities. Even if we take the long view, I don’t think in our working life times we will see the home porting of US ships here. And I’m not sure that the US would want it.”

Some of the speculation about US bases in Australia, Smith believes, reflects “officials on both sides of the Pacific” getting carried away a bit beyond the willingness of either of their respective governments to follow them.

Read the full story at http://​goo​.gl/​m​9​uoc

Dear Pacific Sentinel (your appellation says a lot about you),
Come now, India is a cricket playing nation and long time friend of which I’ve quite a few gained through the respect garnered via by aspects of my work. Some call it citizen diplomacy, but to a simple man like myself, its just treating others with friendship and and open mind and heart.
Surely its ludicrous to suggest India as a ‘threat’ to Australia, as they’ve being lined up as the next big trading partner of ours in terms of our natural resources and apart form which they’re a Commonwealth nation as the recent games there attest. Its wrongful to label friends as potential enemies and those who do I borrow their own sentiment against them to say “Open your eyes!”.
China is a business partner with les in common with us admittedly, but surely its unhelpful to label a new trading partner as a possible future threat as even basic human relations demonstrate that labelling someone via one’s own irrationality and folly, can actually create the very danger one forecast simply as a response of one’s own mindset and actions.
A self fulfulling prophesy indeed!.
Moreover, one could say that your American fervour is more a sign of insecurity and immaturity ‘Staying close to nurse, for fear of something worse’ in short changing Australia and a peaceful future as opposed to your limited vision of conflict, feality and distressing gullibility regarding the transparently unconvincing ‘self romanticism’ of the American empire.
They seem to believe in their own self reverence, whilst lacking any self reflection or empathy toward others, but I’m surprised a few of my fellow Australians also believe in their propaganda.
Indeed, by contrast you’re the only Aussie I’ve encountered who seems more American than Australian, and confirms my observations about self associating groups and how they eventually re-inforce each other and ‘go native’.

Uggg…This limit on post size really annoys me; I have to split this up again

(part 1)
Jeremy said: “Dear Pacific Sentinel (your appellation says a lot about you)”

Less than you think, it’s the name of my blog & simply means “Watching the Political & Military Situation in the Pacific.”

Every nation is a potential enemy of every other nation depending on the situation, it’s a fact of life, Indonesia is one of our closest trading partners, yet the ADF also says it’s the most likely adversary of Australia, just because India is a friend today, doesn’t mean it won’t be an enemy tomorrow (personally, I think they will be a major ally someday, perhaps more so than the USA), the military have to look at all possible outcomes & plan accordingly.

(part 2)
China on the other hand has demonstrated a willingness to provoke its neighbours around the “South China Sea”, to threaten the peaceful exploration of the sea, and disrupt navigation in “International Waters”, they continue to assist Myanmar in their efforts to develop Missile Technology & Nuclear Weapons, they continue to provoke India & Vietnam on their respective land borders, & the list goes on, the rapid development of their military capability is also concerning, their new ASBM “Carrier Killer” Ballistic Missiles can supposedly reach to just north of New Guinea, thus threatening our ships at sea, and while the Ex-Russian carrier isn’t much for us to worry about, it’s what it represents that is troubling (Home grown super carriers looming on the horizon), china’s population is growing larger all the time (most of them male due to china’s 1 child policy), this puts a great deal of pressure on the social structure which COULD have dire consequences (one of those things that must be planed for, but may never happen), there are many reasons to look at China with a watchful eye.

(part 3)
Jeremy said: “your American fervor”

LoL, I’m all for whatever will protect this country, I’d much prefer the Aussie gov to build a decent military of our own, but they don’t seem to have the brains to do that, the Labor Party’s “Fortress Australia” policy is a bad joke, we have nowhere near the force strength or weapon systems for such a policy to be operational & the Liberal Parties Expeditionary policies are lacking in credibility due to the same reasons, Americas presence in the Pacific allows the twits in Canberra to get away with underfunding the military, if the USA pulled out would the Gov fix the military(?), I doubt it, they don’t seem to have a clue that Australia NEEDS a strong Navy supported by a solid AirForce.

I also post to the “Armchair General” Forum, back in April I posted this » http://​goo​.gl/​n​b​u8N « I want the ADF to have the capability to defend this country on their own, but until that happens (shortly after hell freezes over) we need the USA in the Pacific.

(Note: Part 1 must ba approved by a admin for some reason)

Dear Pacific Sentinel,

Although I don’t share your concerns on China and its supposed ‘threat’, I do agree with you on the parlous state of Australia’s defence which to be honest never realy has been taken seriously, certainly in my lifetime.
So yes, you make some fair criticisms, which I share, which if addressed would by definition, allow us to stand up for ourselves and assert our independence from U.S meddling and anyone else too. So yes I fear you’re right about both old parties and their nonsensical thinking.
Perhaps like myself, you can recall various past ‘missed opportunities’ we could have pursued, but didn’t which would have boosted our capabilities earlier.
I’m staggered for example that we’re only now finally gaining an AEW capability after decades of different options were missed!. Please let me know if you know of other ‘missed opportunites’, I’m always keen to learn.
Finally, insofar as China is concerned, I’m sceptical of claims of China’s ’ aggression’.
As ASBM’s and the like are limited in range and aimed at deterring American gunboat diplomacy via its carrier force that likes to swan about the world threatening people in a none too subtle trait, also, Asian nations protestations about China are aligned to the American empire and as we know from wikileaks, merely an echo chamber to the arm twisting done by the yanks behind the scenes, so to ensure they all sing in tune to U.S diktats, while masquerading as ‘like minded and free allies’ or whatever the latest theatrical term they call it.
Thus I’m sceptical of this posturing and think the U.S is just being provokative and looking for excuses via expedience.
Still, I agree with your concerns on our lacklustre defence standing.
Thanks for your thoughts
J

Jeremy Said: “Perhaps like myself, you can recall various past ‘missed opportunities’ we could have pursued, but didn’t which would have boosted our capabilities earlier.”

We had the opportunity to acquire F-15s instead of F/A-18s, I’ve talked to several Ex-RAAF personal that agree we should have gotten the Eagle & that in combination with the F-111s, would have made a lethal combination with very long range strike capabilities.

Then there was the whole Carrier stuff up » http://​goo​.gl/​8​D​uc5 « more recently there was the possibility of acquiring a 3rd Canberra class LHD (under construction now), modified as a STOVL carrier & flying F-35Bs, which they passed on AGAIN.

Also the Gov has recently abandoned the acquisition of “up to seven large high-altitude, long-endurance UAVs to supplement the manned maritime patrol aircraft.” as stated in the 2009 Defence White Paper on page 80, these were to be GlobalHawks, which until recently we were part of the development of, but have since abandoned.

These are but a few of a long list of things (far too big to post here) that the Gov has screwed up over the last few decades.

Dear Pacific Sentinel,

Thank you for those acquistion titbits. I’ve heard about the F-15 option (pre 1981 and the F-18) too and wondered why we were limited to the F-18 (cost most likely).
Yes the HMAS Melbourne replacement was botched such that I note that even the upgraded HMS Hermes is still going (INS Viraat) in India .
I still like the British SCADS concept of navalised container ship aircraft/helicopter carriers, especially in the modern incantation with battlecruiser roles as well via ISO containerised missiles such as the Russian ‘Club’ types.
As you say, a rich field of missed possibilties.….…
However I still disagree on the notion of supposed ‘potential enemies’ lurking out there with my Indian friends likely to take great umbrage at this imprecation I’m sure.
As I say, such mindsets are typical of the yanks who as part of their nature seem to need some kind of threat to justify their own mordant role in the world.
Looking for monsters to slay, when the greatest monster is themselves.
’avagoodweekend and thanks for your thoughts and those defence titbits.
J

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